Surface Devices

[Bodie CI5]

From digitaltrends (all excerpts from the design section of the article):

Microsoft has patented several related technologies which could come to the future Surface Pro 7. One of note happens to be for a thinner and redesigned Type Cover with haptic feedback. This patent suggests that the Surface Pro 7 could have slimmer bezels, a lighter profile and a reduced footprint thanks to a circuit board directly that is etched directly into the touchpad of a keyboard. It also hints that the overall height of the next Surface could be reduced.[…]

A second patent also supports the wild claim that the Surface Pro 7 could come with a reflective touch display. That could mean you’d be able to write on both sides of the device. […]

An August 2017 patent shows that Microsoft is considering altering the hinges supporting the kickstand so it could open up and close more easily. […]

Though the thick bezels are often cited as a reason for comfort in tablet mode, it has become a bit ugly by 2019 standards.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/surface-pro-7/

One wonders if the patents have any bearing on the next SP model. Although I'm not sure it needs a height reduction!

 

[derekamoss]

From digitaltrends (all excerpts from the design section of the article):



https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/surface-pro-7/

One wonders if the patents have any bearing on the next SP model. Although I'm not sure it needs a height reduction!

I hope they don't change the physical dimensions. IMO they have it just right unless maybe this is for a 15" Surface Pro then it would make sense.

 

[kazmac]

From digitaltrends (all excerpts from the design section of the article):



https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/surface-pro-7/

One wonders if the patents have any bearing on the next SP model. Although I'm not sure it needs a height reduction!

The 6 is rather small and light as it is, with the type cover.

 

[TomOSeven]

I was THIS close to buying the SP6+Cover+Surface Pen this weekend.

Then I realised it doesn't have a USB-C port and you'd have to use proprietary charger and dock.

What a joke, way to copy the worst thing about Apple.

 

[derekamoss]

I was THIS close to buying the SP6+Cover+Surface Pen this weekend.

Then I realised it doesn't have a USB-C port and you'd have to use proprietary charger and dock.

What a joke, way to copy the worst thing about Apple.

Fair enough but they copied one of the best thing from Apple. I charger cord that is just like Apple's Magsafe charger. I really don't mind proprietary chargers. If you use ANY PC other than Apple you would have a proprietary charger. Microsoft's charger at least has a nice USB charging port built in.

As for the USB-C port problem? I assume you have a lot of USB C devices because you own a MacBook Pro? Blame Apple for it being hard to transition over. Try looking at the surface book 2, it has a USB C port and I'm pretty sure the next Surface Pro will. I have yet been forced by my computer manufacturer to actually use anything USB C so it hasn't been an issue for me.

and now Looking at your sig I rushed to judgement about the MacBook pro and usb c issue so I apologize.

 

[SDColorado]

Fair enough but they copied one of the best thing from Apple. I charger cord that is just like Apple's Magsafe charger. I really don't mind proprietary chargers. If you use ANY PC other than Apple you would have a proprietary charger. Microsoft's charger at least has a nice USB charging port built in.

As for the USB-C port problem? I assume you have a lot of USB C devices because you own a MacBook Pro? Blame Apple for it being hard to transition over. Try looking at the surface book 2, it has a USB C port and I'm pretty sure the next Surface Pro will. I have yet been forced by my computer manufacturer to actually use anything USB C so it hasn't been an issue for me.

Microsoft still includes a cable that goes from the charger to the wall as well, not a heavy brick that won't stay plugged in

Microsoft apparently has their own patent on a magnetic USB-C latching mechanism, meaning that when they do fully adopt USB-C (hopefully in this year's releases) we may see them release a "mag-safe" version of it.

There are some 3rd party solutions for Mac that offer this, but they are somewhat awkward plugins to the side of the device, a built-in and sleeker solution would be welcome.

 

[derekamoss]

Microsoft still includes a cable that goes from the charger to the wall as well, not a heavy brick that won't stay plugged in

Microsoft apparently has their own patent on a magnetic USB-C latching mechanism, meaning that when they do fully adopt USB-C (hopefully in this year's releases) we may see them release a "mag-safe" version of it.

Good to know about the mag safe. After having that I don't understand how you could go back. It has saved me more times than I can count

 

[SDColorado]

Good to know about the mag safe. After having that I don't understand how you could go back. It has saved me more times than I can count

Me too having 3 fairly rambunctious dogs. But it was my wife you knocked down my MBP. No major damage. But she came back from a conference and had borrowed my laptop bag. After she emptied it she tossed it into the space next to the desk where I keep it, but she didn't notice the USB-C power cable going to the wall adapter and it pulled the laptop off the desk and against the wall. Again, no major damage, just minor scuffing along the edge of the display where it is now shiny silver rather than space gray. But it could have been worse for sure.

I tried one of those Griffin magnetic USB-C cables. What a terribly implemented design that is. The magnet doesn't even support the weight of its own cable. Hopefully, MS will do it better.

Some more details on the MS cable...

https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/microsoft-patents-magnetic-usb-c-connector/

 

[derekamoss]

Here is a little lesser known setting that has made My Surface more enjoyable and might make it feel a little more responsive.

 

[TomOSeven]

If you use ANY PC other than Apple you would have a proprietary charger. Microsoft's charger at least has a nice USB charging port built in.

I mean, I have a USB-C phone, USB-C laptop (Thinkpad T480s) and a Switch. A USB-C tablet would have been the icing on the cake, but the good tablets don't have it and the tablets that do aren't good.

But I hope you're right about the Surface Pro 7 having USB-C.

Either that, or I'll get the next iteration of the Surface Go.

 

[maflynn]

Go handles the task well, after all the iMac is doing the realy heavy lifting.

I'm kicking around on getting the go, the price is really nice though once you add the keyboard, and stylus and opt for the 8GB of ram, it gets a bit pricier. At that point, does the SP6 makes sense?

My usage will be in place of my laptop in certain situations, notes, reviewing materials, office apps. videos, and maybe reading. i'm sure I'll play some low end games. Back in the day I owned a Surface Pro (3 or 4 I forget), but that was geared towards a full laptop replacement and that didn't work out. I think now I'm leaning towards more of a tablet type usage, mostly because my kids have taken ownership of my iPad Windows is more of a need in a tablet for compatibility

I'm thinking of selling my Surface Go that i don't use, bought Nov 17th has keyboard also. Paid $399 for it.

Is it the 4GB/64GB version?

 

[dwig]

I'm kicking around on getting the go, the price is really nice though once you add the keyboard, and stylus and opt for the 8GB of ram, it gets a bit pricier. At that point, does the SP6 makes sense?...

For some, maybe. For me, absolutely not.

No matter how close the pricing may get, any other Surface, current or historical, can't come close to matching the Go's portability, either size or weight. The difference is even larger when your comparison includes the charger.

 

[KarmaRocket]

I've been seriously looking at the Go as my iPad replacement. I find the 12.9 iPad cumbersome to carry around. I want something smaller that I can actually use to get some writing and coding done. I'm going to wait for the next Go update and hope they reduce the bezels while keeping the same size and come out with a more powerful CPU. Hope they reduce bezels and increase screen size on all surface models. The Go was released like 7 months ago, so I may have to wait a bit.

 

[dwig]

I've been seriously looking at the Go as my iPad replacement. I find the 12.9 iPad cumbersome to carry around. I want something smaller that I can actually use to get some writing and coding done. I'm going to wait for the next Go update and hope they reduce the bezels while keeping the same size and come out with a more powerful CPU. Hope they reduce bezels and increase screen size on all surface models. The Go was released like 7 months ago, so I may have to wait a bit.

Reduced bezels and more powerful CPU would make the Go's biggest negative even bigger. They would reduce battery life.

It would be possible to put in a more powerful CPU that has lower power needs, but in the near future that would have to be a ARM based chip. This would be an improvement only for newly rewritten software. Existing software, other than some of the lightweight Apps, is all x86 based and would have to run in emulation which would actually reduce performance compared to the current Go.

Reducing the bezels means either increasing the actual display size and hence the area needing backlight, or reducing the overall size of the device. This would reduce battery life. Reducing the bezels and keeping the same screen size would be a major negative change as it would reduce the space for the battery and force an even smaller keyboard.

 

[maflynn]

I'm going to wait for the next Go update and hope they reduce the bezels while keeping the same size and come out with a more powerful CPU.

Those bezels are big, and that kind of stops me.

 

[SteveJUAE]

Those bezels are big, and that kind of stops me.

And the latest round of Ipads certainly puts a lot of those questionable comments in to context

Given many buy Ipad as a bit of an overindulgent media device,

IMO the overall potential of 2in1's minis like the GO make spending $350 a more justifiable decision from a couch media device to low end laptop with fully functional (with options) KB/Mouse/TP/Pen/Touch etc

You really need to be stubbornly neck deep in Apple ECO and captive subscriptions to opt for the latest round of Ipads without considering products like the GO

 

[derekamoss]

Those bezels are big, and that kind of stops me.

That just gives you more surface grip so you don't drop it!

 

[DarthVader!]

IMO the overall potential of 2in1's minis like the GO make spending $350 a more justifiable decision from a couch media device to low end laptop with fully functional (with options) KB/Mouse/TP/Pen/Touch etc

The Go appears to be a very affordable device, until you start factoring in the other costs, such as the keyboard, and stylus. I configured one and was surprised at how quickly the price jump up.

You need to ignore the base model, given the extremely slow storage, and low ram, so now you're talking about 500 dollars, add in the keyboard 130, and stylus 100 and you're in the 700 dollar range, for a 10" tablet. For similar money you can get a refurbished X1 Tablet, an Acer switch 5 or various other tablets that will out perform the GO.

 

[SteveJUAE]

The Go appears to be a very affordable device, until you start factoring in the other costs, such as the keyboard, and stylus. I configured one and was surprised at how quickly the price jump up.

You need to ignore the base model, given the extremely slow storage, and low ram, so now you're talking about 500 dollars, add in the keyboard 130, and stylus 100 and you're in the 700 dollar range, for a 10" tablet. For similar money you can get a refurbished X1 Tablet, an Acer switch 5 or various other tablets that will out perform the GO.

Whilst true, we could apply your same formula to almost every device vs some 2nd hand or refurb unit

FYI I did say like GO and was not overly specific and the X1 is considerably larger

However

The same as you propose is even more alarming vs the humble spec new Ipads with even less functionality that equally ramp up in price if not considerably more than the GO

In your scenario if you can't justify a GO then the Apple IPM or IPA is a non starter

 

[derekamoss]

The Go appears to be a very affordable device, until you start factoring in the other costs, such as the keyboard, and stylus. I configured one and was surprised at how quickly the price jump up.

You need to ignore the base model, given the extremely slow storage, and low ram, so now you're talking about 500 dollars, add in the keyboard 130, and stylus 100 and you're in the 700 dollar range, for a 10" tablet. For similar money you can get a refurbished X1 Tablet, an Acer switch 5 or various other tablets that will out perform the GO.

You also have to assume not everyone is going to be buying all three at the same time. My friend bought a Surface Pro and for a year never had the pen or the typecover. He used it as a tablet when he was mobile and when he got home just hooked it up to a monitor and a usb hub with a keyboard and mouse. Also some people just don't want the pen or they buy the Surface now but hold of on keyboard till a later time when they have the money. 500 dollars for the go but after three months when they decide to buy typecover for 130 isn't as hard to swallow. Also considering if the keyboard fails out of warranty you can just buy another one and not have to pay $500 because a single key doesn't work....

 

[Queen6]

The Go appears to be a very affordable device, until you start factoring in the other costs, such as the keyboard, and stylus. I configured one and was surprised at how quickly the price jump up.

You need to ignore the base model, given the extremely slow storage, and low ram, so now you're talking about 500 dollars, add in the keyboard 130, and stylus 100 and you're in the 700 dollar range, for a 10" tablet. For similar money you can get a refurbished X1 Tablet, an Acer switch 5 or various other tablets that will out perform the GO.

Problem with the GO is the CPU, cost is typically MS, to me it lacks value, although nicely polished. Personally I opted for an Acer Switch 5 (i3) as it remains to be a productivity focused device and just $650 (backlit keyboard & pen included)

I looked at both the Go and the SP6 one too little and one too much, the Switch 5 fits the bill nicely and a little more versatile. Another factor is the display W10 on a 10" is pushing it a bit for my liking. I feel it would take the edge off it being a useful productivity tool. The Switch 5 is my grab and go system when I'm out and about at the contractors facilities so no need for high performance being a secondary machine. I was considering an Android tablet or IPP, equally neither can match the versatility of a system with a full desktop OS with the former being mostly consumption orientated devices.

Q-6

 

[SDColorado]

You also have to assume not everyone is going to be buying all three at the same time. My friend bought a Surface Pro and for a year never had the pen or the typecover. He used it as a tablet when he was mobile and when he got home just hooked it up to a monitor and a usb hub with a keyboard and mouse. Also some people just don't want the pen or they buy the Surface now but hold of on keyboard till a later time when they have the money. 500 dollars for the go but after three months when they decide to buy typecover for 130 isn't as hard to swallow. Also considering if the keyboard fails out of warranty you can just buy another one and not have to pay $500 because a single key doesn't work....

IF you are going to buy all 3, asking about bundle deals is another option. IF you have an MS store near you, they often have bundle deals if you are getting the type cover, pen, extended warranty. I got one with mine that included those items plus case.

Costco also offers bundle deals and a 2-year warranty, and if you use the Costco Anywhere Visa cards, it will add an additional 24 months warranty.

 

[derekamoss]

IF you are going to buy all 3, asking about bundle deals is another option. IF you have an MS store near you, they often have bundle deals if you are getting the type cover, pen, extended warranty. I got one with mine that included those items plus case.

Costco also offers bundle deals and a 2-year warranty, and if you use the Costco Anywhere Visa cards, it will add an additional 24 months warranty.

That's true too. I am at the point where I think they should just subsidize the keyboard and have it be part of the Surface pro at the same price now. They might loose a little money but probably gain more money with people seeing it all included

 

[SDColorado]

That's true too. I am at the point where I think they should just subsidize the keyboard and have it be part of the Surface pro at the same price now. They might loose a little money but probably gain more money with people seeing it all included

They used to include the pen, but no longer do. Some say it is a cost-cutting move to people now pay for the pen that used to be included. To some degree that may be true, but I also think many people simply don't use the pen.

The keyboard on the other hand people do probably mostly use. But I also think people like to have the choice of customizing the device the way they want to. Some will prefer gray, others blue or maroon. It does seem a bit piecemeal, but it also lets people chose the options, colors, etc. they want.

 

[Queen6]

They used to include the pen, but no longer do. Some say it is a cost-cutting move to people now pay for the pen that used to be included. To some degree that may be true, but I also think many people simply don't use the pen.

The keyboard on the other hand people do probably mostly use. But I also think people like to have the choice of customizing the device the way they want to. Some will prefer gray, others blue or maroon. It does seem a bit piecemeal, but it also lets people chose the options, colors, etc. they want.

I think MS would do themselves a great favour if they did offer the KB and Pen as incrementally discounted bundles. For some it simply doesn't sit so well that they are paying four figures then have to fork out again for a KB, which to be honest is pretty much mandatory for the vast majority.

If the they say bundled the KB, and then the Pen at 50% discount, I too think it would encourage more sales. I opted for the Switch 5 as it simply and very neatly meet all my needs for such a device (performance, cooling, ports) not the pricing the advantage of having both USB A & USB C, microSD and a barrel type power port, with zero throttling swung it.

The SP6 is a superior device to the Switch 5, equally I don't currently need what it offers although I agree the option to choose the colour is appealing, personally favouring the black SP6 and Cobalt Blue type cover. The Switch 5 is one of those devices that seems to change colour depending on the light, here and now it has a deep bronze hue to it which is nice.

Switch 5 is great for productivity on the go, not so much artists and or photographer's as the colour gamut is not wide enough for serious for. Fine for my scratching and odd diagramming for those that struggle to get a concept. Although what I did find was that with a colour corrected icc profile, colours popped and contrast was significantly improved, so certainly good enough for my needs.

What is impressive is the passive liquid cooling loop, with my Switch 5 holding a solid 2.7GHz as long as you need it to, with the CPU barely breaking 65C, allowing it out perform the SP5 i5 on sustained tasks. All in all cheap & cheerful, yet credit where credit is due Acer has done a fantastic job with the Switch 5 all at the price of an IPA. Sure an IPA would have a better display and play more games, but it wouldn't turn coin as the OS is simply not capable or flexible enough being predominantly focused on consumption...

Q-6