Winner!I wonder what Intel will name their next "Lake" processor. What have they had so far? Kaby Lake, Coffee Lake, Sky Lake, Whiskey Lake, Amber Lake. I am sure I am missing some. Maybe Crystal Lake? The Machine freaks out every Friday the 13th
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Surface Devices
- Thread starter Dave245
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I think it s great that MS continues to build upon previous Surface Pros. They're really trying to do more hardware-wise and I commend them for that. Could the SP go quad-core?
I've been an Apple gal since 1996. I use Windows at work so I have no idea how to deal with wonky updates and all the under the hood stuff. I am very encouraged by @Queen6's constant assistance and folks' recent experiences with the MS store mentioned here. I would definitely have to sign up for MS' one on one type service.
I really like what MS is doing hardware-wise and completely agree that the iPad Pro and 2018 iPad are just not up to snuff when it comes to doing more computer oriented work.
Wow. That Taptic pen sounds like something I would love. I adore the Apple pencil, but this sounds like it would be much better. Thanks for posting the info and the link to that article.
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Alas, that's not me. The multi-quote within in @SDColorado's post got destroyed in my response. The Crystal Lake chip was his genius.
I don't have a lot of experience with current Windows hardware brands or hardware other than the Surface Pro. I switched from PC to Mac back on 2007 and had not kept up with what Windows or Windows hardware was doing until last year when the 2017 Surface Pro caught my eye. That is about the change a little, because I have a Lenovo arriving today, so I guess I am about to expand my Windows Hardware horizons a bit.
From what I understand, bearing in my understanding is limited to chatting with folks at Microsoft Store, Microcenter, Best Buy, of all the Windows hardware manufacturers, Microsoft is the most Apple-like in their update procedure. I guess because Microsoft has the advantage of making both the hardware and software, all of those updates are done through the Update & Security tab in Windows Settings. Except for Windows Store Apps, which are doing through the Windows Store. I find Mojave's set up very similar.
My understanding is Dell is the next easiest to update with the very good app. I think Dell System Detect or something like that, followed by Lenovo with their System Update Utility. Asus I was told was among the worst, where updates had to be manually collected and update. But again, that is all from a limited circle of "knowledge."
However, I can confirm that if "wonky updates" are one of the factors holding you back, you may be pleasantly surprised by how Mac-like Surface updates. Windows Settings, much like Mac control panel, simplifies the under the hood stuff with a GUI interface.
If you have the opportunity to play with one in store, go into Windows Settings and explore a bit. You won't "break" it and even if you do, they re-image them anyway Also if you have a store near you, you can set up a demo/consultation appointment to discuss your needs and which model and specs might better serve them.
I found the personal training a big help to get back into the Windows world. See if they will throw in a year free. They did for me, but at the very least they should give you a couple of cards for free training sessions. I think I still have one left because they gave me a couple and then later gave me the free year.
A simple question for people who own and use SB2 15" daily:
How are the thermals of the device? Does it heat up doing simple things like some office tasks, browsing, youtube, music, mail... Mostly multitasking between those tasks. I might just pick up one and try it for personal use, for my work related issues this device simply isn't a good choice since I need much better hardware.
But I have a chance to purchase one with dock for just 1800$ (in europe mind you), and it's from a well known friend, so I have no doubt that the machine is 10/10, but can check it out in person as well.
Only thing that bothers me is thermals + fan noise. If those are ok doing simple tasks, I might just jump on the offer.
How are the thermals of the device? Does it heat up doing simple things like some office tasks, browsing, youtube, music, mail... Mostly multitasking between those tasks. I might just pick up one and try it for personal use, for my work related issues this device simply isn't a good choice since I need much better hardware.
But I have a chance to purchase one with dock for just 1800$ (in europe mind you), and it's from a well known friend, so I have no doubt that the machine is 10/10, but can check it out in person as well.
Only thing that bothers me is thermals + fan noise. If those are ok doing simple tasks, I might just jump on the offer.
I don't have a lot of experience with current Windows hardware brands or hardware other than the Surface Pro. I switched from PC to Mac back on 2007 and had not kept up with what Windows or Windows hardware was doing until last year when the 2017 Surface Pro caught my eye. That is about the change a little, because I have a Lenovo arriving today, so I guess I am about to expand my Windows Hardware horizons a bit.
From what I understand, bearing in my understanding is limited to chatting with folks at Microsoft Store, Microcenter, Best Buy, of all the Windows hardware manufacturers, Microsoft is the most Apple-like in their update procedure. I guess because Microsoft has the advantage of making both the hardware and software, all of those updates are done through the Update & Security tab in Windows Settings. Except for Windows Store Apps, which are doing through the Windows Store. I find Mojave's set up very similar.
My understanding is Dell is the next easiest to update with the very good app. I think Dell System Detect or something like that, followed by Lenovo with their System Update Utility. Asus I was told was among the worst, where updates had to be manually collected and update. But again, that is all from a limited circle of "knowledge."
However, I can confirm that if "wonky updates" are one of the factors holding you back, you may be pleasantly surprised by how Mac-like Surface updates. Windows Settings, much like Mac control panel, simplifies the under the hood stuff with a GUI interface.
Also if you have a store near you, you can set up a demo/consultation appointment to discuss your needs and which model and specs might better serve them.
I found the personal training a big help to get back into the Windows world. See if they will throw in a year free. They did for me, but at the very least they should give you a couple of cards for free training sessions. I think I still have one left because they gave me a couple and then later gave me the free year.
Thanks for another great and detailed response. Surface Pro is now on my radar and when the major bills are paid off, I will start visiting the Microsoft store near my old job and start fiddling. Hopefully some good deals will still be floating around on the 2017, if the new model Pro or Studio are not announced.
I hope the Pro will be easier to manage for school than the Acer I stopped using. I will definitely ask the MS team if they would throw in a year free, first things first though.
I believe Acer isn't far off the mark of Asus as being among the more difficult to update. I may be wrong, but I believe that you have to enter your serial number into a website and manually download and install them.
Over the past year, my Surface Pro has downloaded 14 cumulative updates, 46 driver updates, and a few other updates. I really haven't had much to do with any of them other than restarting when told to.
If they do give you the Assure, it covers up to 5 devices and you can get unlimited personal training as well as in-store, phone and online support for both Windows and Office. It also included system tune-up, virus removal, and a few other things.
Luckily the only time I had to use it for anything other than personal training was early on. I had only been back to Windows for a couple of weeks and got cocky and thought opting in for the Windows Fast Track on the Insiders Program to skip ahead to the latest beta release would be a good idea. Not so much
I took it in to the store and they sorted it out for me and suggested at the most stick with the slow ring for "fixes and updates," if i really felt the need to opt in at all The Complete for Surface coverage plans costs $149 and can be added up to 45 days after purchase. In addition t extending the warranty, it provides 2 years of Accidental Damage Coverage, so if you drop it, crack the screen, etc. they will fix or replace it. No deductible/co-pay like Apple. If you have a small business you can buy the Business Plan, which can be extended up to 4 years. About the only thing, it does not cover is total submersion of the device. So don't drop it into a pool or bathtub
I believe Acer isn't far off the mark of Asus as being among the more difficult to update. I may be wrong, but I believe that you have to enter your serial number into a website and manually download and install them.
Over the past year, my Surface Pro has downloaded 14 cumulative updates, 46 driver updates, and a few other updates. I really haven't had much to do with any of them other than restarting when told to.
If they do give you the Assure, it covers up to 5 devices and you can get unlimited personal training as well as in-store, phone and online support for both Windows and Office. It also included system tune-up, virus removal, and a few other things.
Luckily the only time I had to use it for anything other than personal training was early on. I had only been back to Windows for a couple of weeks and got cocky and thought opting in for the Windows Fast Track on the Insiders Program to skip ahead to the latest beta release would be a good idea. Not so much
The Complete for Surface coverage plans costs $149 and can be added up to 45 days after purchase. In addition t extending the warranty, it provides 2 years of Accidental Damage Coverage, so if you drop it, crack the screen, etc. they will fix or replace it. No deductible/co-pay like Apple. If you have a small business you can buy the Business Plan, which can be extended up to 4 years. About the only thing, it does not cover is total submersion of the device. So don't drop it into a pool or My tech dollars will go elsewhere when the time comes.
This is very helpful (as usual).
$149 is quite reasonable for such a good extended warranty (cheaper than AppleCare for the iPhones now). By the time I jump in, I should be registered for University again, so extra discount too. I am looking forward to it actually.
This is very helpful (as usual).
I am looking forward to it actually.
If enrolled in University you would also qualify for the Microsoft Complete for Education Plan. Which would be a 3 year, rather than 2 year plan. It includes advanced exchange, prepaid shipping and a few other things the standard plan does not.
What fan noise or thermals I barely have to move it off battery saving mode for dailies and a bit of entertainment
So not only silent and cool but your well over 10hours of use
Thanks for the input, but sadly a bit late. Didn't want to risk it, so ordered x1 carbon. Should arrive in 4-5 days, will leave my impressions in the thinkpad thread.
But will keep an eye ou for SB3 when that one arrives. Don't need the tablet function at all, or pen function, but plenty of praises for that device + great keyboard + trackpad + battery life + build quality + 3:2 screen...
Well, gonna purchase one for sure in the future. Hopefully with tb3
But will keep an eye ou for SB3 when that one arrives. Don't need the tablet function at all, or pen function, but plenty of praises for that device + great keyboard + trackpad + battery life + build quality + 3:2 screen...
Well, gonna purchase one for sure in the future. Hopefully with tb3
Thanks for the input, but sadly a bit late. Didn't want to risk it, so ordered x1 carbon. Should arrive in 4-5 days, will leave my impressions in the thinkpad thread.
But will keep an eye ou for SB3 when that one arrives. Don't need the tablet function at all, or pen function, but plenty of praises for that device + great keyboard + trackpad + battery life + build quality + 3:2 screen...
Well, gonna purchase one for sure in the future. Hopefully with tb3
There will likely be a refreshed SB in October, but that might just be limited to Whiskey Lake processors and not TB3. I am with you on wanting to see a SB with TB3.
I love my iPhone. Love it. But I have a Surface Pro 3 and I love that too
Funny thing is, I never liked iPhones. But every year I would purchase one. Great ecosystem together with my macs. But since I won't be purchasing any more macs, and I'm moving to Linux&Windows, first thing I did was sell my iPhone.
And that right there is how you loose a loyal customer that is willing to pay top price for quality gear.
And that right there is how you loose a loyal customer that is willing to pay top price for quality gear.
Exactly, I simply tired of Apple's and it's exec's pathetic excuses year after year. Apple has simply put itself out the picture for many by only offering hardware that caters to a specific audience. Although Apple desperately wants to be perceived as a provider of professional hardware for the halo effect, in actuality the very opposite is occurring. I have never seen so many drop the Mac for their professional needs, even diehard's. The performance and value gap is simply extending year on year, W10 is now more stable than OS X and moving in a good direction, while the Mac seems stuck in a time warp...
Some 2018 MBP users are trying to limit their CPU's to restrain the temperature, the very opposite is possible even with the base 8750H as long as the notebook has a solid design philosophy:
Holding a full 3.9GHz across all six cores, if Apple want professional's onboard that have demanding workflows this is the level of performance it needs to be offering with the same applying to it's desktops, not just slick sales & marketing, high margins, dongles and mediocre performance...
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Well, on multiple occasions I disagreed with you on this. And I will do it again.
MS simply uses too much legacy technology to move forward, hence making the Windows unstable when compared to OS X or some Linux distros. Registry is another thing holding Windows back, and that thing ain't going nowhere.
I can live with Windows. And I am a .NET developer, I've been developing on Windows since Visual Basic in late 90s, so it's not like I don't know my way around Windows. And purchasing X1C over SB2 was mostly because of great Linux support by Lenovo. Otherwise I would have gone for better GPU and 3:2 screen. Both have great keyboards, X1C a little better imho, but not that much
Well, on multiple occasions I disagreed with you on this. And I will do it again.
MS simply uses too much legacy technology to move forward, hence making the Windows unstable when compared to OS X or some Linux distros. Registry is another thing holding Windows back, and that thing ain't going nowhere.
I can live with Windows. And I am a .NET developer, I've been developing on Windows since Visual Basic in late 90s, so it's not like I don't know my way around Windows. And purchasing X1C over SB2 was mostly because of great Linux support by Lenovo. Otherwise I would have gone for better GPU and 3:2 screen. Both have great keyboards, X1C a little better imho, but not that much
It's ultimately down to use case and workflow for me W10 is now far more stable for myself and many colleagues. We are not all .NET dev's so clearly our usage significantly differ. I'm an engineer in the energy sector, once OS X was extremely stable and as a result a significant draw. Today OS X is lucky to remain stable for more than a few days, nor do my colleagues fair much better.
Since I switched to W10 over two years ago for my primary professional needs I have not incurred a single major issue, BSOD, lockup etc. across multiple systems. A colleague who is a massive Apple fan & supporter has recently swapped over to W10 for the very same reasons as loosing data, loosing time has it's cost, let alone the current performance & usability issues the MBP has.
I've been using both Windows & OS X since the 80's so the nature of both OS is well known. If OS X was the better option I would be using it for the basic reason the computers performance is a function of revenue. It's always worth considering that people speak from a point of view of their own experience, not a global standpoint.
There are advantages to OS X, equally when the workflow is interrupted due to Apple's sloppiness it needs to be called out, with the vast number of issue being directly related to Apple's own SW. Your fully entitled to your opinion as am I, bottom line if Apple's OS and hardware was the best I'd be using it simple as that, reality it's not and in IMHO degrading on every successive iteration.
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I have a feeling you're talking about specific software that you run? If so, that has nothing to do with OS stability, more to do with company that makes that software.
But registry in windows is still there, no matter what OS one loves or doesn't love, it's still there, and it's a complete mess. .NET (crucial part of windows) is falling behind because of millions upon millions of old API that MS won't and can't upgrade, or even remove for something better.
And the most easy example for any average user is updates.
Updating most of Linux distros is as easy as it gets. Same goes for Mac OS, Android, iOS. But Windows? Well, sooner or later you're in for a ride. As often as I can I postpone updates. Of course, you can't simply shut them off like you can on any other OS. But you can postpone them for 35 days. And a few months ago I had to update, so late in the evening my update began. Expected to carry on with my work in the morning. But morning came, and update was still running!
And this wasn't the first time. So call me crazy, but I don't consider that to be on par with other OS out there
And of course, after update is finish, some settings I have chosen before were reseted, and MS spyware puts all those fine candy crash games and other bloatware back. But at least I didn't get any drivers messed up that time, but who knows what the future brings?
And those are just some small examples why I consider Windows to still be a complete nightmare compared to anything else. Of course, Windows has it's strengths as well. As other OS out there have it's fair share of flaws. But none I have encounter have so many critical flaws as Windows. And these pointed out here are major ones that everyone knows about, so it's not like I'm inventing the wheel here
Of course, never claimed otherwise. Not trying to be assertive or rude, if I came out that way, my apologies. English isn't my native language, so if I came out rude, once again - my apologies
How do the 2018 MacBook Pro's score on that benchmark? Has anyone posted the results from Any? Particularly the 2.6 and i9?
I have a feeling you're talking about specific software that you run? If so, that has nothing to do with OS stability, more to do with company that makes that software.
But registry in windows is still there, no matter what OS one loves or doesn't love, it's still there, and it's a complete mess. .NET (crucial part of windows) is falling behind because of millions upon millions of old API that MS won't and can't upgrade, or even remove for something better.
And the most easy example for any average user is updates.
Updating most of Linux distros is as easy as it gets. Same goes for Mac OS, Android, iOS. But Windows? Well, sooner or later you're in for a ride. As often as I can I postpone updates. Of course, you can't simply shut them off like you can on any other OS. But you can postpone them for 35 days. And a few months ago I had to update, so late in the evening my update began. Expected to carry on with my work in the morning. But morning came, and update was still running!
And this wasn't the first time. So call me crazy, but I don't consider that to be on par with other OS out there
And of course, after update is finish, some settings I have chosen before were reseted, and MS spyware puts all those fine candy crash games and other bloatware back. But at least I didn't get any drivers messed up that time, but who knows what the future brings?
And those are just some small examples why I consider Windows to still be a complete nightmare compared to anything else. Of course, Windows has it's strengths as well. As other OS out there have it's fair share of flaws. But none I have encounter have so many critical flaws as Windows. And these pointed out here are major ones that everyone knows about, so it's not like I'm inventing the wheel here
Of course, never claimed otherwise. Not trying to be assertive or rude, if I came out that way, my apologies. English isn't my native language, so if I came out rude, once again - my apologies
No offense taken, your experience is simply different. Windows Updates are easily stopped, barring critical ones by flipping the connection to metered (be warned this stops everything barring non critical). If your PC takes such a time to update, I suggest it has other issues at hand as that not the norm, nor do I always work across reliable networks. Last major update my primary was only using a cellular network and whole update took less than an hour and a half.
My systems never reinstall what I have purposefully uninstalled, maybe this is a regional issue IDK. I do know that MS does sometimes flip system settings on a major update, equally it's normally related to feedback and easily reverted, although I don't appreciate it. Not the case with Apple's telemetry as you have zero control and simply have to take Apple's word...
Major problem with Windows is that it is so very open by nature and generally people tend to tinker or don't fully consider the impact of a 3rd part applications. For the most part I leave the OS as MS delivers, turn off and or remove what I don't want. I don't use 3rd party apps that promise the "earth" to improve performance. resultantly I don't get issues or problems.
TBH I'm not a huge fan of MS, I don't like the Office implementation and switch to it being more or less a service or some of the other things the company does, equally credit where credit is due. It should also be considered just how many PC configuration's MS is supporting. Apple has full control over both the hardware and software environment yet is incapable of getting it right with just a few SKU's.
I work internationally and tend to rotate, when at home, my Mac's are as well behaved as they can be, however in the field at the clients location and the systems are under load the coin flips which to me speaks volumes. The W10 notebooks perform the same regardless of the environment...
This is related to Apple's own core applications, nor does a clean install resolve, it is simply related to the volume and load across multiple systems, nor am I in isolation with such observations. This belongs to Apple, equally Apple is more interested in emojis than truly supporting the dwindling number of professional's on it's platform...
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I would love to see, equally this is not a quick 30 second test and will push the CPU and system hard. My best guess is that Corona will expose what some would rather not care to discuss about, although in the context of PC's and Mac's in 2018 irrelevant.
Corona Renderer benchmark is available for W10 & Mac OS any takers...
https://corona-renderer.com/benchmark
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Prime and Furmark would be interesting on a 2018 MBP as well, but to the best of my knowledge, neither will run on MacOS, but I would be really curious to see the 2018 MPB results for Corona. Too bad I already returned the 2018 i9 I had. The Cinebench scores for that model were disappointing.
Likely for all the talk why you wont see any 2018 MBP results posted as Corona will only further illustrate the MBP's poor performance under sustained load...
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My appols for tardy replyThanks for the input, but sadly a bit late. Didn't want to risk it, so ordered x1 carbon. Should arrive in 4-5 days, will leave my impressions in the thinkpad thread.
But will keep an eye ou for SB3 when that one arrives. Don't need the tablet function at all, or pen function, but plenty of praises for that device + great keyboard + trackpad + battery life + build quality + 3:2 screen...
Well, gonna purchase one for sure in the future. Hopefully with tb3
Enjoy your X1 and may be a more prudent buy if there is a SB3 just around the corner
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I think it's quite hard to presume what the average users experience is on updates
If I go by my wife she always shuts her bootcamp rMB down every time, sometimes she has to wait a few mins other times on a major update maybe 30 mins, but she thinks nothing of it
My in-laws who used our old MBA's for years were simply unaware of updates on MacOS they would chug along oblivious until a prog said it could not run on this version of MacOS, Skype I think was there last one and my son found that they were 2 OS rev's behind LOL
I certainly see a flavour in the threads on MR that some users almost seem proud they have not re started their MBP in weeks or longer, I just wonder why
For sure legacy apps/progs have a lot to do with some issues and I encountered one myself a couple of weeks back when playing with Android emulators on my SB2 and one had used an old (10 years) install app that played havoc with my battery life till I spotted it, despite having uninstalled the main prog
I think there are too many scenarios to get an accurate impression and the more you fiddle or use lessor quality software the more likely issues occur, hence why work IT departments lock systems down and updates are pushed out in batches
I think most users believe they are being looked after when they receive updates and the longer it takes they feel they have been given something more or better for nothing
Its not that you won't see Mac results, its the fact that there database is messed up and only shows Win as the platform.
Here are mine on the database...
Interesting, I noticed that for your results the database doesn't report the CPU frequency, so that may indicate that the result is related to a Mac and/or OS X.
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