Surface Devices

[xraydoc]

I am a big fan of Outlook- I struggle with Mac Mail and have a hard time managing all of my email on any other platform than Outlook-

I actually like Outlook, too (what we use at work), but it doesn't support Google calendar so I can't use it at home. My personal stuff is on Google calendar, and while I can subscribe to it on Outlook via weblink, I can't actually enter/edit any entries. So it's unfortunately out of the running. I wish that weren't the case so I could have one app for personal calendar and work calendar.

At the moment, I have an app running on one of my work PCs that syncs Google Calendar and Outlook but this is a less-than ideal setup.

I'm giving an app called eM a try. Interface is Outlook-ish but natively supports Gmail and Google Calendar/Contacts, including all of the subscribed calendars I have on Google Calendar as well. It's not super finger-friendly, but might be good enough to get some work done.

Windows Mail I've found doesn't update the status of read/deleted/archived mail to the Google servers fast enough for me. I can read an email and an hour will go by without it being marked as read on the Gmail website unless I force an update on Windows Mail.

 

[Dave245]

Update: During some down time from work I visited a Curry’s PC World today here in the U.K and managed to have some time to play around with the Surface Pen and the Surface Pro, I have never used the pen before because most places don’t have them as demo units to use. I was surprised at how responsive the Surface Pen and Surface Pro were, for example I opened up a drawing app (by pressing the top of the pen) and started to draw and quickly write a couple of notes, I was very surprised that it feels good to use as well but also that it seems to be just as fast and responsive as the Apple Pencil.

I have to say that every time I try the Surface (I’ve tried it twice now, first time was without the pen) i’ve come away impressed and as an Apple fan that surprises me! The one thing I’m yet to try is gaming on the Surface Pro. I do think that Apple are making a mistake by ignoring the Surface and refusing to do their own hybrid device, it may not seem like it at the moment, hell it may take a few years but I think if the Surface continues to evolve and impressive people (yes even us Apple fans) then Apple will be ignoring it at their own detriment.

I’m not sure if Windows 10 on the Surface Pro is always that snappy or if it starts to lag after a year or so but I’m impressed with what I’ve tried out today in store with both the pen and the Surface device again.

 

[SDColorado]

Update: During some down time from work I visited a Curry’s PC World today here in the U.K and managed to have some time to play around with the Surface Pen and the Surface Pro, I have never used the pen before because most places don’t have them as demo units to use. I was surprised at how responsive the Surface Pen and Surface Pro were, for example I opened up a drawing app (by pressing the top of the pen) and started to draw and quickly write a couple of notes, I was very surprised that it feels good to use as well but also that it seems to be just as fast and responsive as the Apple Pencil.

I have to say that every time I try the Surface (I’ve tried it twice now, first time was without the pen) i’ve come away impressed and as an Apple fan that surprises me! The one thing I’m yet to try is gaming on the Surface Pro. I do think that Apple are making a mistake by ignoring the Surface and refusing to do their own hybrid device, it may not seem like it at the moment, hell it may take a few years but I think if the Surface continues to evolve and impressive people (yes even us Apple fans) then Apple will be ignoring it at their own detriment.

I’m not sure if Windows 10 on the Surface Pro is always that snappy or if it starts to lag after a year or so but I’m impressed with what I’ve tried out today in store with both the pen and the Surface device again.

The Microsoft Pen is definitely very responsive. It was Apple that had a little catching up to do. Originally the Apple Pencil had a 40ms latency, but ProMotion doubled the screens refresh rate when using the pencil and halved it to 20ms. The Microsoft Pen by comparison is 21ms. I don't think anyone can tell the difference in real world use.

The Microsoft Pen also now has 4,096 levels of pressure sensitivity, tilt and rotation support with some apps. I am not sure if Apple has ever published their levels of pressure sensitivity? I know the Apple Pencil offers tilt, but I don't believe rotation support.

Some folks say they prefer the onscreen feel of the Apple Pencil and I think for sketching and drawing it may have an advantage there. Though I prefer the Microsoft Pen for note taking.

Microsoft also offers an accessory tip kit that includes four tips that mimic the feel of 2H, H, HB, and B pencils. I have no experience with them, so I can't say if any more closely mimic the Apple Pencil.

Microsoft says the AAAA battery will last 1 year. Mine is still going strong, but I am not a heavy drawer/sketcher. I am sure that makes a difference. I did recently pick up a 4-pack of AAAA Amazon Basics batteries for $2.36 USD. Based on battery life of the included battery. That may be a 6 year supply

I can only speak for the 1 year mark as far as how snappy Windows 10 Pro remains, but mine feels as snappy to me as it did when I brought it home, 1 year later.

 

[OdT22]

That is interesting. I have always used the Windows Mail App. I don't know why, maybe because it is the most similar to what I was used to with Mac Mail? But I never noticed that Edge would not allow Outlook as its default share. I thought maybe it would work if you go into settings and change the default mail program to Outlook, but that still doesn't work for Edge. Maybe the next version of Office will support that?

I haven't used Outlook since I switched to Mac many years ago. I really probably should give it another look.

Cool to see another Quicken user. I've used it daily for multiple small businesses since the mid-late 80's. I think I'm still using 2011's version for work now. Dreading the new subscription version. Any thoughts on the new way?

Another quirk regarding email, is that when sharing from the Windows Snipping Tool, it only allows it to be mailed through the full version of Outlook (Office 365). I really think I'd be happy using any of all three versions (outlook.com, Windows Mail, or Office Outlook) but being forced to use all three interfaces isn't ideal. The share button should be more universal in any case.... As Apple has done so well with in iOS and MacOS. I did however find a solution to this one. Windows Screen Sketch allows me to do the same screenshots and even mark them up before sending through Windows Mail. Perfect. Bye snipping tool. lol

Surface Pro prices have been slashed by $200 this weekend only- seems like a precursor for perhaps a hardware refresh of some sort? Maybe I will finally be able to get one of these once some announcements are made
[doublepost=1535983463][/doublepost]

I am a big fan of Outlook- I struggle with Mac Mail and have a hard time managing all of my email on any other platform than Outlook-

I struggled with Mac Mail too. I only set it up to enable the share function on OSx, then used outlook.com for everything hands on. I've always avoided firing up Mac Mail at all.

 

[Dave245]

The Microsoft Pen is definitely very responsive. It was Apple that had a little catching up to do. Originally the Apple Pencil had a 40ms latency, but ProMotion doubled the screens refresh rate when using the pencil and halved it to 20ms. The Microsoft Pen by comparison is 21ms. I don't think anyone can tell the difference in real world use.

The Microsoft Pen also now has 4,096 levels of pressure sensitivity, tilt and rotation support with some apps. I am not sure if Apple has ever published their levels of pressure sensitivity? I know the Apple Pencil offers tilt, but I don't believe rotation support.

Some folks say they prefer the onscreen feel of the Apple Pencil and I think for sketching and drawing it may have an advantage there. Though I prefer the Microsoft Pen for note taking.

Microsoft also offers an accessory tip kit that includes four tips that mimic the feel of 2H, H, HB, and B pencils. I have no experience with them, so I can't say if any more closely mimic the Apple Pencil.

Microsoft says the AAAA battery will last 1 year. Mine is still going strong, but I am not a heavy drawer/sketcher. I am sure that makes a difference. I did recently pick up a 4-pack of AAAA Amazon Basics batteries for $2.36 USD. Based on battery life of the included battery. That may be a 6 year supply

I can only speak for the 1 year mark as far as how snappy Windows 10 Pro remains, but mine feels as snappy to me as it did when I brought it home, 1 year later.

What i don't understand for the life of me is why Apple refuses to do a Surface type of device, they could easily do it the iPad Pro has a 12.9" display, i think that would be great as a Surface style of device, instead of IOS. Apple's ASK keyboard doesn't seem as good as the the one on the Surface (i tried that today in the store as well), it's like they are making these accessories without looking at the competition. While i do like my iPad Pro, it works great for drawing, Affinity Photo, Pixelmator hobbies and general web browsing it isn't a device i can use to write on for hours at a time (with writing being my career it's something i do every day, most of the day and sometimes into the night) where as i can see myself getting that done on the Surface Pro because the keyboard looks and feels like a real keyboard with backlight on top.

People often like to invoke the same old stuff with "Steve Job's wouldn't do that" however Job's was well known for changing his mind when people convinced him with good enough reason (something Forstall did a number of times apparently) so i do ask myself what would Jobs think of the Surface. I think Apple has to be careful simply because people could get to a point where they ask themselves "why do i carry two devices?" i ask that myself sometimes, why do i use an iPad Pro 12.9" and a MacBook Pro (it died the other day so that point no longer stands). I love my iMac so i wouldn't be completely without a Mac but i have asked myself (a number of times now) what if i just brought a Surface Pro? if as an Apple fan i'm asking that question, how many others are thinking the same thing?

Apple need to do something other than just keep offering us the iPad Pro in it's current form and a MacBook or iMac.

 

[OdT22]

<snip>

Apple need to do something other than just keep offering us the iPad Pro in it's current form and a MacBook or iMac.

Agreed.

Something I didn't cover in my previous posts, or in the photo you requested;

I use the SP on the counter or tabletop (as pictured, keyboard attached) only when I have more than 20+ words to say or create/edit. Probably less than 30% of total use. The remainder of my use is on my lap, in my recliner, just where the last 4 or 5 iPads used to sit daily (no keyboard, but mouse is handy on the table to my right). I use it very much like the iPad, but more sophisticated with mouse control inches away. I have not spent enough time to explore the Tablet mode of Windows 10 yet, and so far haven't had the desire to do so. Anyhow, I couldn't figure out how to take a photo of that use without getting someone's help. lol

That said, I agree with your post very much. I purchased the SP as a potential iPad replacement, and it turned out to be one of my better decisions. So much so, that my wife replaced her iPad with one too, and then we saw no reason to keep our shared iMac in the house taking up space. She loved the iMac far more than I did, but she hasn't mentioned missing it yet.

To your point though, although I didn't see it coming, much better options were available to us and we didn't know it. We thought we were using the best devices we could buy. Turns out we were wrong, (for us). So your point is very valid. We weren't looking to leave at all, but we sure did. Ha!

I've spent the past few weeks learning, and backing out of the Apple ecosystem. Fairly painlessly I might add. I'm down to an iPhone and an Apple Music subscription. Same with her. Now I'm scared to look at the iPhone competition... might like it! lol

 

[Dave245]

Agreed.

Something I didn't cover in my previous posts, or in the photo you requested;

I use the SP on the counter or tabletop (as pictured, keyboard attached) only when I have more than 20+ words to say or create/edit. Probably less than 30% of total use. The remainder of my use is on my lap, in my recliner, just where the last 4 or 5 iPads used to sit daily (no keyboard, but mouse is handy on the table to my right). I use it very much like the iPad, but more sophisticated with mouse control inches away. I have not spent enough time to explore the Tablet mode of Windows 10 yet, and so far haven't had the desire to do so. Anyhow, I couldn't figure out how to take a photo of that use without getting someone's help. lol

That said, I agree with your post very much. I purchased the SP as a potential iPad replacement, and it turned out to be one of my better decisions. So much so, that my wife replaced her iPad with one too, and then we saw no reason to keep our shared iMac in the house taking up space. She loved the iMac far more than I did, but she hasn't mentioned missing it yet.

To your point though, although I didn't see it coming, much better options were available to us and we didn't know it. We thought we were using the best devices we could buy. Turns out we were wrong, (for us). So your point is very valid. We weren't looking to leave at all, but we sure did. Ha!

I've spent the past few weeks learning, and backing out of the Apple ecosystem. Fairly painlessly I might add. I'm down to an iPhone and an Apple Music subscription. Same with her. Now I'm scared to look at the iPhone competition... might like it! lol

I think it's a very valid point, the iPad is a great device don't get me wrong but it's like Apple are sitting back and not moving it forward while Microsoft have worked to make the Surface Pro better and better over time, to the point where it does a lot more than the iPad Pro can. I tested out Windows Edge while i was in the store today playing around and another advantage over iPad is that you can draw and write on the browser, on the iPad Pro you have to take a screen shot in order to it. It's like Apple want you to buy the two devices, iPad Pro and the Mac but at the same time they also tout the iPad Pro as a laptop replacement (which for some it is) but to truly do that they really need to work on, go back to the drawing board and really work on it.

The Surface is slowly drawing people in i think, it may not be in the high millions but it's slowly happening, yourself is a prime example here, and then your wife replacing her iPad as well, that's 2 future potential customers lost to Surface. How many more will it be over coming years if Apple don't do something about it. Why carry two devices when you can have everything under the one package is what the Surface is offering.

 

[SDColorado]

What i don't understand for the life of me is why Apple refuses to do a Surface type of device, they could easily do it the iPad Pro has a 12.9" display, i think that would be great as a Surface style of device, instead of IOS. Apple's ASK keyboard doesn't seem as good as the the one on the Surface (i tried that today in the store as well), it's like they are making these accessories without looking at the competition. While i do like my iPad Pro, it works great for drawing, Affinity Photo, Pixelmator hobbies and general web browsing it isn't a device i can use to write on for hours at a time (with writing being my career it's something i do every day, most of the day and sometimes into the night) where as i can see myself getting that done on the Surface Pro because the keyboard looks and feels like a real keyboard with backlight on top.

People often like to invoke the same old stuff with "Steve Job's wouldn't do that" however Job's was well known for changing his mind when people convinced him with good enough reason (something Forstall did a number of times apparently) so i do ask myself what would Jobs think of the Surface. I think Apple has to be careful simply because people could get to a point where they ask themselves "why do i carry two devices?" i ask that myself sometimes, why do i use an iPad Pro 12.9" and a MacBook Pro (it died the other day so that point no longer stands). I love my iMac so i wouldn't be completely without a Mac but i have asked myself (a number of times now) what if i just brought a Surface Pro? if as an Apple fan i'm asking that question, how many others are thinking the same thing?

Apple need to do something other than just keep offering us the iPad Pro in it's current form and a MacBook or iMac.

Steve Job's used to rant about Stylus' as well and would go on about how we already have 10 of the best pointing devices in the world. Then Apple added a stylus after his passing. I kind of wonder if Steve would have done a touch screen device like the Surface Pro before he added an Apple Pencil to the iPad?

Mojave has a couple of oddities with the interface that makes me wonder if Apple isn't having a look at the touch screen market. The way they have set up the categories on the left and the app groupings in the middle. I just want to instinctively reach over and press them with my finger. My worry though is that if Apple does do it, it won't just by a touch screen MacBook Pro, it will be some MacBook Pro/IOS hybrid thing and then they will tell everyone why they don't need whatever they cut out in the process.

I have been a huge Apple fan as well, but I have never really been able to love the iPad. I have had a number of them over the years and I get excited about each new one, try it for awhile and find it limited. I ran out and picked up one of the new 12.9" ones in 2017, thinking maybe this time it will the "the one," but toward the end of the 14-days I found myself looking for excuses to use it. I returned it and picked up the 2017 Surface Pro, which I really love. I also have a 9.7" MacBook Pro, but it sits mostly on the bedside table.

I've spent the past few weeks learning, and backing out of the Apple ecosystem. Fairly painlessly I might add. I'm down to an iPhone and an Apple Music subscription. Same with her. Now I'm scared to look at the iPhone competition... might like it! lol

I still have an Apple Music Subscription, but I reduced it from Family to Solo, because my wife no longer uses it. I barely do anymore either. We both no exclusively or mostly use Spotify Premium.

My wife was always an iPad mini fan, but began to fall in love with the Surface Go after trying it in the stores a few times. But that prompted her to be more interested in my Surface Pro and now she is beginning to lean toward wanting a Pro rather than a Go. I think the cost of Christmas may be going up hahaha. Edit: Maybe that is the primary intent of the low cost Go? A gateway device to increase interest in the other Surface Products?

 

[Dave245]

Steve Job's used to rant about Stylus' as well and would go on about how we already have 10 of the best pointing devices in the world. Then Apple added a stylus after his passing. I kind of wonder if Steve would have done a touch screen device like the Surface Pro before he added an Apple Pencil to the iPad?

Mojave has a couple of oddities with the interface that makes me wonder if Apple isn't having a look at the touch screen market. The way they have set up the categories on the left and the app groupings in the middle. I just want to instinctively reach over and press them with my finger. My worry though is that if Apple does do it, it won't just by a touch screen MacBook Pro, it will be some MacBook Pro/IOS hybrid thing and then they will tell everyone why they don't need whatever they cut out in the process.

I have been a huge Apple fan as well, but I have never really been able to love the iPad. I have had a number of them over the years and I get excited about each new one, try it for awhile and find it limited. I ran out and picked up one of the new 12.9" ones in 2017, thinking maybe this time it will the "the one," but toward the end of the 14-days I found myself looking for excuses to use it. I returned it and picked up the 2017 Surface Pro, which I really love. I also have a 9.7" MacBook Pro, but it sits mostly on the bedside table.



I still have an Apple Music Subscription, but I reduced it from Family to Solo, because my wife no longer uses it. I barely do anymore either. We both no exclusively or mostly use Spotify Premium.

My wife was always an iPad mini fan, but began to fall in love with the Surface Go after trying it in the stores a few times. But that prompted her to be more interested in my Surface Pro and now she is beginning to lean toward wanting a Pro rather than a Go. I think the cost of Christmas may be going up hahaha. Edit: Maybe that is the primary intent of the low cost Go? A gateway device to increase interest in the other Surface Products?

It kind of feels like they are dabbling, what’s the Touch Bar on the MacBook Pro’s about if not to bring Touch to the Mac? What’s it about bringing a keyboard and pencil to the iPad Pro if not for its intentions to be a computer replacement, i wonder if it was in the pipeline all along or if they changed course with the modern Surface Pro being introduced.

Surface can be used to be a laptop replacement in more things than the iPad Pro, a full keyboard with backlit keys is a big plus especially to people like me who write a lot. I wanted to be able to do it on my iPad but I can’t, now that my MacBook Pro 2011 has broken I’m left with my iPad Pro 2017 and iMac, when I want to do some serious typing I have to go to my iMac. Apple wants me to buy a MacBook yet I also have an iPad Pro. There are people who are not only replacing their tablets by also their computers with the Surface.

Tim Cook is dead against hybrids, he’s said multiple times that he considers the Surface line to be a product that tries to do too many things and is ultimately a comprising product. Their half way measure seems to be in things like the Touch Bar which I’ve tried out a number of times now and it just doesn’t feel right, it feels half way between touch and not.

The Surface Pro seems to have had a reduction in price for the next few days so I wonder if Microsoft will update it soon, Surface 2018 maybe? I will be keeping my eyes on it that’s for sure.

 

[OdT22]

<snip>

Edit: Maybe that is the primary intent of the low cost Go? A gateway device to increase interest in the other Surface Products?

That is how I ended up taking a new look at the Surface line. I hadn't even thought of trying something else for personal use until Go was announced and the reviews were everywhere. A full OS, in my lap, without a keyboard and trackpad pushing the screen away from my old eyes? And a decent (nearly everyone praises it in reviews) native backlit keyboard only when I need it? It was time to explore alternatives to the iPP.

 

[SDColorado]

It kind of feels like they are dabbling, what’s the Touch Bar on the MacBook Pro’s about if not to bring Touch to the Mac? What’s it about bringing a keyboard and pencil to the iPad Pro if not for its intentions to be a computer replacement, i wonder if it was in the pipeline all along or if they changed course with the modern Surface Pro being introduced.

Surface can be used to be a laptop replacement in more things than the iPad Pro, a full keyboard with backlit keys is a big plus especially to people like me who write a lot. I wanted to be able to do it on my iPad but I can’t, now that my MacBook Pro 2011 has broken I’m left with my iPad Pro 2017 and iMac, when I want to do some serious typing I have to go to my iMac. Apple wants me to buy a MacBook yet I also have an iPad Pro. There are people who are not only replacing their tablets by also their computers with the Surface.

Tim Cook is dead against hybrids, he’s said multiple times that he considers the Surface line to be a product that tries to do too many things and is ultimately a comprising product. Their half way measure seems to be in things like the Touch Bar which I’ve tried out a number of times now and it just doesn’t feel right, it feels half way between touch and not.

The Surface Pro seems to have had a reduction in price for the next few days so I wonder if Microsoft will update it soon, Surface 2018 maybe? I will be keeping my eyes on it that’s for sure.

When Apple first announced the Touch Bar it was with great fanfare. "A Touch of Genius" they called it and even released a marketing video to show us how awesome it was and generate excitement. 3 years later they have done little to improve upon it and I believe widely considered mostly a gimmick. Apple barely makes mention of it on their current MacBook Pro site.


I know there are a few "I love the Touch Bar" threads and honestly I did at first as well. But that was when it was new and novel and I hadn't yet lived with a touch screen computer. Now I find it near useless and the utility it does have for me is mostly through a 3rd party utility BetterTouchTool and a few scripts I have found in their community forums and online. It is a good thing that there are some bright minds out there working to make it more useful, because Apple hasn't. Perhaps Apple should have not just gone for a "Touch of Genius" and instead gone "Full Genius?" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If the iPad Pro "What's a computer" ads are indicative of anything, maybe Tim Cook isn't much a fan of computers in general, let alone hybrid ones?

I know the Surface Pro here in the states had a $200 price reduction this weekend for Labor Day, which may also translate worldwide as far as purchase price goes. Microsoft also does small business discounts and warranties. Something to check out if you are a business owner. I purchased the Microsoft Complete 4 year for mine, which includes 2 instances of accidental damage claim without a deductible.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/business/extended-service-warranty

From what the manager at the store near me has said, Surface Studio 2 is likely the next refresh up. Bearing in mind that this is only a concept video, it looks like it might be pretty cool

 

[OdT22]

Maybe worth adding; There's a certain workflow experience when using a touch screen coupled with a full OS and the alternate precision available with a mouse that needs more attention by both MS and Mac. Being able to scroll and read easily by touch is something iPad/iPhone got very right. But being able to go from those so-simple tasks to full-on manipulation of the content within seconds on the same device, and with a mere shift to another tool, is extremely fluid! Amazing really. Surface is doing it right now. Mac isn't.

I think this may be where iPad and iOs may have missed the boat. For those of us who have work to do with content, or who wish/need to communicate or share with others. We need precision, and we need tools that keep up with the tech.

 

[SDColorado]

I think this may be where iPad and iOs may have missed the boat. For those of us who have work to do with content, or who wish/need to communicate or share with others. We need precision, and we need tools that keep up with the tech.

I think that you are exactly right. When I went back to the Apple Store to return my 12.9 iPad Pro, the sales associate tried to talk me out of the return by showing me her workflow and how she does certain tasks. The demonstration only further convinced me that I was making the correct decision in returning it. It wasn't that you couldn't do certain things, but the way that you had to do them as a compromise rather than an intuitive way to work.

 

[OdT22]

I think that you are exactly right. When I went back to the Apple Store to return my 12.9 iPad Pro, the sales associate tried to talk me out of the return by showing me her workflow and how she does certain tasks. The demonstration only further convinced me that I was making the correct decision in returning it. It wasn't that you couldn't do certain things, but the way that you had to do them as a compromise rather than an intuitive way to work.

I would have enjoyed being there to see that, if only to find out what I couldn't figure out. But my guess is that it would have also solidified my current opinion on what workflow should look like.

A desktop is a part of the file system to me. That means (for me) that if there's anything left on it at the end of a day (besides the preferably empty recycle bin), that I am not finished with my work yet. So I rely on it, similar to the US post office deliveries that aren't filed, paid or trashed yet. I need a clean slate before I go socializing or exploring. Mac and Windows do this. iOS doesn't really handle that without me having a 'relationship with my operating system'. No thanks.

 

[SDColorado]

I would have enjoyed being there to see that, if only to find out what I couldn't figure out. But my guess is that it would have also solidified my current opinion on what workflow should look like.

A desktop is a part of the file system to me. That means (for me) that if there's anything left on it at the end of a day (besides the preferably empty recycle bin), that I am not finished with my work yet. So I rely on it, similar to the US post office deliveries that aren't filed, paid or trashed yet. I need a clean slate before I go socializing or exploring. Mac and Windows do this. iOS doesn't really handle that without me having a 'relationship with my operating system'. No thanks.

That was one of the things I missed about the "old apple." They used to have programs such as One to One, where you could schedule a One to One with a trainer and go over a new device or have them help you with a project you were working on or a task that you were having trouble with. I used it a lot when I first switched to Apple and then again when I was using Aperture and some project specific training when I needed to publish a booklet and was having some issues with formatting for the half page size and some other stuff.

They have Workshops now, but they aren't the same. The workshops are subject focused and limited in scope. I used to in for One to One sessions regularly and they really helped me to get more out of my devices and learn how to use them the way I wanted or needed.

Microsoft has Assure, which the store near me gave me a one year free subscription to as a part of my purchase, a $149 value. I told them it was my first Microsoft device in about 12 years and I needed to get up to speed on Windows 10, so they included it to help me out. I definitely took advantage of that, scheduling a series of One on One trainings to learn how to use Windows 10 and some of the Office Apps such as One Note.

I suppose that is most useful if you have a Microsoft Store near you and I realize that they aren't as numerous as Apple Stores, but it was appreciated.

 

[OdT22]

<snip>

I suppose that is most useful if you have a Microsoft Store near you and I realize that they aren't as numerous as Apple Stores, but it was appreciated.

Right on. I'm about 80 minutes away from the nearest Apple store, and I don't think I've ever been in one. I've always been jealous for those who could get that level of support without so much travel though. A MS store would be a treat these days. Bing and google have got me through most of it though. I wish both were more 'recent date' oriented though. Most searchable support is dated beyond usable and requires more reading than I like to separate the chaff.

 

[SDColorado]

Right on. I'm about 80 minutes away from the nearest Apple store, and I don't think I've ever been in one. I've always been jealous for those who could get that level of support without so much travel though. A MS store would be a treat these days. Bing and google have got me through most of it though. I wish both were more 'recent date' oriented though. Most searchable support is dated beyond usable and requires more reading than I like to separate the chaff.

I wish it was as well, I try to add things to my search terms such as +2018 but it only goes so far and much is still dated and often outdated.

There is only one Microsoft Store in the Denver area and luckily in the same mall as one of the Apple Stores. The other Microsoft Stores near me are Kiosks and not full blown stores.


But I do have 2 Apple Stores within 6 miles and 3 within 15. Within 80 miles there are half dozen

 

[OdT22]

I hope Apple and Microsoft read here. We might be on to something. lol

 

[SDColorado]

I hope Apple and Microsoft read here. We might be on to something. lol

Microsoft Store is actually really responsive if you go to their FB page. The cool thing about them is that if they don’t have what you need in the Microsoft lineup, they will suggest other companies models as options.

I realize in the case of MacOS, there aren’t other companies options to sell in their store or suggest, but I do wonder if they would if others did exist?

 

[OdT22]

Microsoft Store is actually really responsive if you go to their FB page. The cool thing about them is that if they don’t have what you need in the Microsoft lineup, they will suggest other companies models as options.

I realize in the case of MacOS, there aren’t other companies options to sell in their store or suggest, but I do wonder if they would if others did exist?

MS has always excelled with the free marketplace, minus the lawsuits. Lol

I didn’t know they had a FB page. Thanks! I’ll look.

Funny how personal computing has evolved. We want more and less at the same time.

 

[SDColorado]

MS has always excelled with the free marketplace, minus the lawsuits. Lol

I didn’t know they had a FB page. Thanks! I’ll look.

Funny how personal computing has evolved. We want more and less at the same time.

There are a number of official ones, Microsoft, Microsoft Surface, Microsoft Surface Laptop, Surface Pro, Microsoft in Business.

But Microsoft Store is the FB site for the retail stores and they have been responsive to answering questions and making suggesting and even checked local
stores for an item I was looking for. They can be a useful resource if you are in the market for something and don’t have a store nearby

 

[kazmac]

From what the manager at the store near me has said, Surface Studio 2 is likely the next refresh up. Bearing in mind that this is only a concept video, it looks like it might be pretty cool

Um, yes please. Better specs and lower price, I would seriously consider a Surface Studio 2.

I am just bummed that MS just cancelled their Surface 2 year installment plans that allow you to pay off and trade in your Surface device (if you wanted) for a newer model.

I am looking forward to seeing what is next for the Surface line, as I am skeptical about the upcoming Mac Mini, which is the only Apple Computer I am remotely interested in now.

 

[Dave245]

Um, yes please. Better specs and lower price, I would seriously consider a Surface Studio 2.

I am just bummed that MS just cancelled their Surface 2 year installment plans that allow you to pay off and trade in your Surface device (if you wanted) for a newer model.

I am looking forward to seeing what is next for the Surface line, as I am skeptical about the upcoming Mac Mini, which is the only Apple Computer I am remotely interested in now.

While i'm currently in the middle of waiting to see what devices get updated this year, both from Apple and Microsoft in the Surface range, i do still think the iMac is a great desktop and may update mine to a 5K iMac, IF they get updated later this year! However what i do in the portable area is up for decision at the moment, the 12" MacBook is a nice looking MacBook but also the Surface Pro has impressed me with what hands on time i've had with it a couple of times in store.

While the new iPad Pro CAD leaks (see the front page Macrumours article) i doubt it will offer anymore functionality for getting work done outside of drawing and photo editing. I would love a new keyboard like the Surface Pro in different colours as well, a touch version of Mojave put into the iPad Pro would also be great, but i know that won't happen. We will find out soon enough what Apple will be doing with the iPad Pro this year, i also wonder if Microsoft will release an updated Surface Pro or if we are talking 2019 now?

 

[SDColorado]

We will find out soon enough what Apple will be doing with the iPad Pro this year, i also wonder if Microsoft will release an updated Surface Pro or if we are talking 2019 now?

Microsoft did a recent refresh of the 2017 model, adding the LTE version. Based on previous release date history, it will likely be May/June 2019 for the next version of the Surface Pro.

 

[kazmac]

I have been a huge Apple fan as well, but I have never really been able to love the iPad. I have had a number of them over the years and I get excited about each new one, try it for awhile and find it limited. I ran out and picked up one of the new 12.9" ones in 2017, thinking maybe this time it will the "the one," but toward the end of the 14-days I found myself looking for excuses to use it. I returned it and picked up the 2017 Surface Pro, which I really love. I also have a 9.7" MacBook Pro, but it sits mostly on the bedside table.

My wife was always an iPad mini fan, but began to fall in love with the Surface Go after trying it in the stores a few times. But that prompted her to be more interested in my Surface Pro and now she is beginning to lean toward wanting a Pro rather than a Go. I think the cost of Christmas may be going up hahaha. Edit: Maybe that is the primary intent of the low cost Go? A gateway device to increase interest in the other Surface Products?

The bold is largely my experiences with any iPad, save the Mini which is great for on the go. I do love the Pencil, but I do not love costly iDevices dying on me a year in (my experiences with every phone and iPad save for my 7+ since 2014). I missed the pencil and my mom’s iPad 2 needs replacing, so here I am with a 2018 iPad because I got one very cheap that mom will eventually inherit. I am intimidated by Windows, but I love the idea of the Surface Pro, Surface Book 2 and especially the Surface Studio.

I think you’re right about the Go being the gateway.

@Dave245 - I have been using iMacs exclusively for almost 20 years, but the opportunity to draw on my screen and truly interact with it, is something I wish Apple would have done first. They can be solid workhorses and they look great, but if I stick with an AiO, it has to do more and make me want to use it.