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Surface Devices
- Thread starter Dave245
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I was in a similar spot, and chose the SP (2017). Only about a week in, I am still thrilled with it and have not missed the iPP 12.9.
The plan was for the wife and I to continue to share our iMac. However, she has decided she likes my SP enough to order one for herself, and we listed her 10.5 iPP and our iMac last night after placing the order.
Kind of crazy. Only a few weeks ago, we had no plans to make such significant changes to our home personal computing devices. Neither of us had even seen Windows 10 before the first SP arrived.
All of this was brought on from me researching what my options are for replacing 4 PC's at work, that still run Windows 7. I need to make a swap next year, and it was a tossup between Mac and Windows, being comfortable with each. Previously preferred Mac, but some software and hardware interface challenges led me to explore W10. Glad I did. Life is much easier without the iOS limitations at home.
Interesting feedback, thanks. I am going to wait for Sept-October Apple announcements- The Air could be promising. But what I am really interested in is Microsoft's response to whatever Apple announces. I am still hoping for some sort of hardware refresh that would prompt a quick purchase decision. Surface Pro or SB looking more and more appealing.
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I went and got the Surface Book 2. I have 30 days to decide whether to keep it. The main question for me is if the Surface pen will be as satisfying for hand writing and making diagrams as the pencil.
Let me know what you think of the Surface Book 2. I really enjoy my Surface Pro, but I also find myself looking at the Surface Book 2 every time I see one.
Still very impressed on how Surface Pro 2017 i7 handles thermal cooling under highest turbo boost of 4.0 GHz while running disk cleanup windows update cleanup for 20+ minutes (yes it takes that long and taxes one of its cores to the max). Yep, it holds the temperature at 60-65 degrees Celsius loaded at 4.0 GHz turbo! It's amazing how Microsoft just designed their cooling for this very thin device! Wish Apple can do the same for their Intel 28W chips though
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This reminds me...
For some reason when I open certain web pages on my 2018 MBP (and it doesn't matter which browser I use) my CPU temp shoots way up. One example is ESPN. It doesn't matter if I use Safari, Chrome Firefox or Opera. The temps shoot up to the mid-90's and the fans kick on. Earlier today I had ESPN open just to check MLB scores. CPU temps were in the 91-98C and fans running about 5K. Hot and noisy.
Opening the exact same page on my 2017 Surface Pro in Edge, Chrome, Firefox and Opera (obviously can't use Safari) CPU temps stay around 37C and no fan.
I am really not sure what is going on with my MPB and why it is doing this.
The question then is this: is it because Apple's chassis (aluminum) doesn't dissipate heat as well as the Surface's Magnesium alloy case (through convection I guess)? Also, IIRC, Surface heatpipes have a special fluid inside that efficiently takes the heat off the CPU before it starts to vaporize then return to its liquid state at the coolest spot on the chassis and creeps back to the CPU, ready to remove more heat.
IMO, if the heat transfer rate from CPU core to the magnesium alloy case is very efficient (very low thermal resistance between thermal conductive materials and efficient convection from ambient air), the core temperature of the CPU should be closer to ambient temperature then. In Apple's case, I observe that the core temps go high before the chassis goes very warm and when it's very warm, it doesn't cool down as quickly as Surface's. Take a look at the fanless 12" MB where looped Cinebench test reveals that the i7 will throttle to m3 speeds rather early in the loop process.
IMO, if the heat transfer rate from CPU core to the magnesium alloy case is very efficient (very low thermal resistance between thermal conductive materials and efficient convection from ambient air), the core temperature of the CPU should be closer to ambient temperature then. In Apple's case, I observe that the core temps go high before the chassis goes very warm and when it's very warm, it doesn't cool down as quickly as Surface's. Take a look at the fanless 12" MB where looped Cinebench test reveals that the i7 will throttle to m3 speeds rather early in the loop process.
More likely there's some code on that web page that isn't playing well with MacOS, while Windows has no problem with it.
Question for you - how was the fan noise on the SP2017 while running the 20+ minute disk cleanup with the high processor utilization?
That would make sense. Viewing scores on ESPN isn’t a task that should in any way stress the machine I wouldn’t think. No video or anything, just the scores results. That it does it regardless of browser would definitely seem to point to it being something MacOS isn’t deal with well, rather than browser.
It’s crazy though, the MBP gets HOT if I have it open for awhile or try to use the machine to view the “Gamecast” feature. The Surface Pro just stays cool
Light-Moderate noise (not gaming laptop loud) on a quiet room but thankfully no obnoxious high pitch tone to it. I would say 2/3rd of the noise of a 6000 rpm MBP
So 11 years ago I ditched Windows and never looked back. Started with my Zune (yes, I actually had one) pissing me off and I bought an iPod touch. That led to a MBP 17" and that was it. Half a dozen iPhones, iPads, three MBPs, an iMac, two MacBook Airs, and numerous accessories later, I never thought I would go back.
Apple has been disappointing me a bit lately; everything seems pretty much the same as it was 5 years ago, especially the iPad. I have still been around Windows for work and am getting ready to start a new government job where some programs require Windows (annoying as hell, but whatever). I needed something a bit more portable than my current MBP and after a small amount of research, decided to jump on a Surface Pro (2017) i5, 8Gb, 256. I'm a couple weeks in and enjoying it. The form factor is great, love the kickstand-keyboard setup. This is great for travelling (on an overseas trip for a couple weeks).
Windows does still have some annoying quirks, and not everything "just works" (main headache, having to select what program to open files from Outlook Every. Single. Time!!). I also wish it had USB-C as I purchased several peripherals for my MBP and it would be nice to just plug it in. Looks like I will be springing for that hideous Surface to USB-C adapter.
Overall I am happy with my choice of replacing my iPad Air 2 and iPad Pro (12.9"). After a bit of a learning curve, doing work on my SP just feels more fluid and simple. Still looking for some good PDF readers to study with (class materials are PDF and haven't been able to figure out an easy way to highlight). Also have to find some good Windows 10 guides and take the time to set this up properly.
Apple really needs to get its act together and start innovating again, and opening up its systems to some user modification/personalization. I am still a die-hard Apple fan, but the Surface Pro seems to be a good replacement for my iPad, and I'm also eyeing an Android phone next.
Thanks to everyone who posted tips and advice in this thread. It has been very helpful.
Apple has been disappointing me a bit lately; everything seems pretty much the same as it was 5 years ago, especially the iPad. I have still been around Windows for work and am getting ready to start a new government job where some programs require Windows (annoying as hell, but whatever). I needed something a bit more portable than my current MBP and after a small amount of research, decided to jump on a Surface Pro (2017) i5, 8Gb, 256. I'm a couple weeks in and enjoying it. The form factor is great, love the kickstand-keyboard setup. This is great for travelling (on an overseas trip for a couple weeks).
Windows does still have some annoying quirks, and not everything "just works" (main headache, having to select what program to open files from Outlook Every. Single. Time!!). I also wish it had USB-C as I purchased several peripherals for my MBP and it would be nice to just plug it in. Looks like I will be springing for that hideous Surface to USB-C adapter.
Overall I am happy with my choice of replacing my iPad Air 2 and iPad Pro (12.9"). After a bit of a learning curve, doing work on my SP just feels more fluid and simple. Still looking for some good PDF readers to study with (class materials are PDF and haven't been able to figure out an easy way to highlight). Also have to find some good Windows 10 guides and take the time to set this up properly.
Apple really needs to get its act together and start innovating again, and opening up its systems to some user modification/personalization. I am still a die-hard Apple fan, but the Surface Pro seems to be a good replacement for my iPad, and I'm also eyeing an Android phone next.
Thanks to everyone who posted tips and advice in this thread. It has been very helpful.
I never thought I would either. I left Windows in the XP/Vista days. Partially due to frustration with Vista and partially due to frustration/abysmal quality with Dell at the time and didn't like the other PC options at the time. But from what I hear Dell has come around some and Windows 10 is a pretty nice OS. That and I too have been a bit disappointed in Apple of late. After a little encouragement from Convergent and a couple of others, I decided to give a 2017 Surface Pro a go and have really enjoyed the machine.
You should be able to go into Windows Settings --> Apps --> Default Apps and choose the program that opens up with a certain file type each time. At least that seems to work for me. The USB-C thing, a little annoying, but I still had everything I needed for USB-A ports from previous macs to the 2016 MBP I purchased.
I have been using Wondershare PDF Element and it does what I need it to do as far as highlighting and annotating. You may want to check that one out and see if it meets your needs or not. That was one of the first programs where I changed the default program using the steps above. As for guides, Windows 10 Step-By-Step helped me out some and they also gave me a 1-year free Microsoft Assure subscription with the purchase. That worked a bit like the old Apple One to One, where I could go in and have them help me out setup, and with questions about settings.
Good luck with it. I hope you continue to enjoy it. I am about this >-< close to returning my 2018 MBP and picking up a Surface Book 2. I gave my wife my 2016 MBP and have been having issues with 2018.
I just picked up a Surface pro i5 / 8 / 128 with type cover last night. These things have been on sale for $800 at a lot of places, but ebay had a 15% ($100 max) coupon yesterday, dropping it to $700. I was considering a Surface go earlier, since I just needed something small for traveling that was both a computer and tablet (so I don't have to carry both of those devices). However the $700 price for the pro was too good to pass up
That said, the Surface go was a very interesting device. I actually stopped at Best Buy yesterday just to try it out for a while. Using the low-end one and running MS Office, I got a few pauses that were a bit irritating, but not any worse than the pauses for a iPad Safari page reload. The screen was excellent, as was the build quality and feel. Removed from the KB, it wasn't any heavier than my iPad. I typed on the KB for 5+ minutes and shockingly enough, it was actually really good, even though I was standing while typing. I'm very impressed
Now that said, it still kind of feels like a slight miss (still very usable, just a bit disappointing). I think that I'd wait for next years model. If Intel makes an Amber Lake Pentium Gold processor, that would be about another 20%+ in speed plus likely bump the battery life up to 11-12 hours. With memory and flash prices supposedly going into free-fall next year, they could definitely bump the memory to 6G and double the storage size (to 128G of fast eMMc). That would likely solve the nagging issues
That said, the Surface go was a very interesting device. I actually stopped at Best Buy yesterday just to try it out for a while. Using the low-end one and running MS Office, I got a few pauses that were a bit irritating, but not any worse than the pauses for a iPad Safari page reload. The screen was excellent, as was the build quality and feel. Removed from the KB, it wasn't any heavier than my iPad. I typed on the KB for 5+ minutes and shockingly enough, it was actually really good, even though I was standing while typing. I'm very impressed
Now that said, it still kind of feels like a slight miss (still very usable, just a bit disappointing). I think that I'd wait for next years model. If Intel makes an Amber Lake Pentium Gold processor, that would be about another 20%+ in speed plus likely bump the battery life up to 11-12 hours. With memory and flash prices supposedly going into free-fall next year, they could definitely bump the memory to 6G and double the storage size (to 128G of fast eMMc). That would likely solve the nagging issues
Drawboard. Hands down the best for PDF viewing and annotation with the Surface pen.
I just today ordered a 13.5" SurfaceBook 2 with the i7 quad core processor and Nvidia GPU, 16GB of RAM and a 512GB SSD. My new workplace is paying for it and they don't support Macs at all. This was I think my best option as they won't allow me to connect my MacBook Pro (plus a couple applications I require for work don't exist on the Mac). Boot Camp and Parallels won't work either because apparently our VPN requires TPM chip access.
The SB2 is much faster than the Surface Pro (important for a specific imaging application I use). It has s USB-C port, a USB-A and an SD card slot, so I'm pretty much covered for connectivity, and I can disconnect the screen or flip it back and use it like a tablet with the pen when I need to.
For me, I think this was the best compromise 3-in-1 machine I could find (desktop replacement, laptop, tablet). At home, it'll be docked to an LG 4K monitor over USB-C which will also keep the machine charged.
Looking very much forward to getting it. I'll report back when it arrives (hopefully not to long, though work IT is anything but speedy).
Looking forward to hearing your review on it. I am a bit underwhelmed with my 2018 MBP, the BridgeOS kernel panics aren't helping my mood with it. I have the Surface Pro which I purchased a lightweight portable device to use as an accompaniment/companion kind of device to all my Macs and I find it is the device I use most.
But I think if I do return the MBP and get a Surface Book 2, I will likely sell the Pro and just go with the Surface Book 2 or maybe pick up a Go.
Those that have a Surface Pro or SurfaceBook, post pictures of you’re set up, it would be great to see people’s pictures of their Surface devices 
Update: My MacBook Pro 2011 broke the other day, so it’s wait and see what Apple announce for the Mac either at this next September event or October event.
If I don’t like any of them I’m thinking of trying out a Surface Pro. For those of you that have a Surface how do you go about installing software for it? I know there’s the Windows store but outside of that how would you install software as it’s not the same as an IPad or even Mac.
Update: My MacBook Pro 2011 broke the other day, so it’s wait and see what Apple announce for the Mac either at this next September event or October event.
If I don’t like any of them I’m thinking of trying out a Surface Pro. For those of you that have a Surface how do you go about installing software for it? I know there’s the Windows store but outside of that how would you install software as it’s not the same as an IPad or even Mac.
Those that have a Surface Pro or SurfaceBook, post pictures of you’re set up, it would be great to see people’s pictures of their Surface devices
Update: My MacBook Pro 2011 broke the other day, so it’s wait and see what Apple announce for the Mac either at this next September event or October event.
If I don’t like any of them I’m thinking of trying out a Surface Pro. For those of you that have a Surface how do you go about installing software for it? I know there’s the Windows store but outside of that how would you install software as it’s not the same as an IPad or even Mac.
I am not home at the moment, but can post some Surface Pro photos later.
Outside of the the Windows Store, which is a similar experience to installing apps on an iPad (and updated in a similar way) other programs are a similar experience to installing on a Mac. You download an .exe rather than a .dmg, but after you download the program you are presented with an option to save or run.
Run begins a two step process where the file is downloaded to a temporary location and then Windows 10 will run the install. Save simply saves the file to a static location where you can run it later.
Run is the option most similar to the one in the newer versions of MacOS where it downloads and runs the program and then prompts you about whether you want to delete the installer file.
Bottom line is that Surface Pro comes with Windows 10 Professional installed and you can install any software that will run on 64-bit Windows, which is about anything current.
Surface Pro Setup 
I am not sure if there is anything in particular you wanted to see?
I am not sure exactly what you wanted photos of. The Surface Pro is probably the device I most often grab, particularly for on the go in the car or packing it on my motorcycle.
Particularly sitting out in the back yard with the dogs
The items pictured are a 12v car charger for charging it in the car.
PNY device works as a USB card, has a micro USB on one end, USB-A on the other. I can plug it into the camera or Surface Pro. It uses a Micro SD card for memory, so is expandable and can be used as a card reader.
The Vanja device is USB-C on one end, USB-A on the other. One side has a SD Card slot, the other a Micro SD slot. I can use it with the Surface Pro and the MacBook Pro.
I also have the Surface Wireless Display Adapter for hooking up to a 4K TV for presentations and the mini-display port to HDMI adapter I use to connect to a projector.
Lastly the Cobalt Blue Signature Type Cover and Surface Pen
Model owned is: i7/512/16
Almost forgot, also a Samsung 128GB card tucked into the back slot.
Featured Beer: New Holland Brewing Dragon’s Milk Bourbon-Barrel Aged Stout
One of my 3 co-workers
I am not sure if there is anything in particular you wanted to see?
I am not sure exactly what you wanted photos of. The Surface Pro is probably the device I most often grab, particularly for on the go in the car or packing it on my motorcycle.
Particularly sitting out in the back yard with the dogs
The items pictured are a 12v car charger for charging it in the car.
PNY device works as a USB card, has a micro USB on one end, USB-A on the other. I can plug it into the camera or Surface Pro. It uses a Micro SD card for memory, so is expandable and can be used as a card reader.
The Vanja device is USB-C on one end, USB-A on the other. One side has a SD Card slot, the other a Micro SD slot. I can use it with the Surface Pro and the MacBook Pro.
I also have the Surface Wireless Display Adapter for hooking up to a 4K TV for presentations and the mini-display port to HDMI adapter I use to connect to a projector.
Lastly the Cobalt Blue Signature Type Cover and Surface Pen
Model owned is: i7/512/16
Almost forgot, also a Samsung 128GB card tucked into the back slot.
Featured Beer: New Holland Brewing Dragon’s Milk Bourbon-Barrel Aged Stout
One of my 3 co-workers
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Surface Pro Setup
I am not sure if there is anything in particular you wanted to see?
I am not sure exactly what you wanted photos of. The Surface Pro is probably the device I most often grab, particularly for on the go in the car or packing it on my motorcycle.
Particularly sitting out in the back yard with the dogs
The items pictured are a 12v car charger for charging it in the car.
PNY device works as a USB card, has a micro USB on one end, USB-A on the other. I can plug it into the camera or Surface Pro. It uses a Micro SD card for memory, so is expandable and can be used as a card reader.
The Vanja device is USB-C on one end, USB-A on the other. One side has a SD Card slot, the other a Micro SD slot. I can use it with the Surface Pro and the MacBook Pro.
I also have the Surface Wireless Display Adapter for hooking up to a 4K TV for presentations and the mini-display port to HDMI adapter I use to connect to a projector.
Lastly the Cobalt Blue Signature Type Cover and Surface Pen
Model owned is: i7/512/16
Almost forgot, also a Samsung 128GB card tucked into the back slot.
Featured Beer: New Holland Brewing Dragon’s Milk Bourbon-Barrel Aged Stout
One of my 3 co-workers
It was more the second photo that shows the setup with the type cover, I’m interested to see people’s setup and how the Surface works for people
. That blue type cover looks great, is the build quality on those good? I have to say that it looks a lot better than the ASK for the iPad Pro (this coming from an Apple fan
) I see you have the Surface Pen, what do you think of it? I don’t know if you’ve used the Apple Pencil but if so how does it compare to that?
The other photos are great too, I totally forgot that the storage is expandable (I’m use to Apple devices where it’s buy what you need at the time of purchase). Wow what a great view, I can’t say I’ve heard of that beer maybe we don’t have it here in the U.K?
you’re “co-worker” seems content
, I love dogs, it’s true what they say, dogs really are a man’s best friend!
It was more the second photo that shows the setup with the type cover, I’m interested to see people’s setup and how the Surface works for people
That blue type cover looks great, is the build quality on those good? I have to say that it looks a lot better than the ASK for the iPad Pro (this coming from an Apple fan
Having used both the ASK for the iPad Pro and the SPSTC (Surface Pro Signature Type Cover) there is really no comparison. The ASK is kind of a vinyl covered thing front and back. The keys don't have much travel and tend to feel spongy. The pitch (distance between the keys) is poor, it isn't backlit making use in dimly lit rooms difficult. The kickstand part of it is one position, floppy, awkward and mostly useless thing. It lacks function keys because the iPad doesn't use them, volume and brightness keys because the iPad can't integrate them and a touchpad because the Ipad can't use a pointer.
The SPSTC has a good pitch to the keys, very good travel, and tactile feel. It backlit to 3 levels of brightness plus off. The trackpad is small but is a good quality glass trackpad. It is a little over sensitive by default but can be adjusted in settings. It obviously included a full set of function keys and secondary functions are also backlit. It reminds me more of the pre-butterfly MBP keyboards and I actually much prefer it to even the 2018 MBP for typing on. The Alcantara has a nice feel to it when typing. Softer and more padded than the hard aluminum or plastic of a laptop. It is easy to clean mostly with a damp cloth and a little soap, but I also have a bottle of car interior/alcantra cleaner I picked up at a local automotive store, since I put it down everywhere, have taken it in my motorcycle panniers, on camping trips, etc. It is still looking good after a year of heavy use.
TL;DR: There really is no comparison. The Surface Pro keyboard is better than the ASK in every measurable way.
I have used the Apple pencil and still have one along with the iPad Pro. Apple does have the advantage here as far as tactile feel goes. But the new MS pen is far better than the previous versions and the tactile feel is pretty good. You can purchase different nibs for it and that might change the feel, but I am fine with the default HB #2 or whatever it is and have never purchased the kit.
The Microsoft Pen has a few advantages that make up for where it lags a little in tactile feel. 1) It is magnetic and you can stick it to the side of the device, which makes it much easy to grab and replace (2) It uses a battery rather than be rechargeable. Some might argue that being rechargeable is a benefit over a battery, but having both I disagree. I have had to recharge my Apple pencil countless times. It loses charge even when you don't use it and having to insert it into the port on the iPad or use a dongle is ridiculous. I am still using the same AAAA (yes, odd size) battery that came with my pen a year later. Sorry, but that is just easier imho. (3) It has an eraser on the end. I have seen some folks say they prefer the pencil with it not having an eraser. I don't know how stopping what you are doing and changing from the pen/brush whatever you were doing to switch the mode to eraser is somehow better or easier than simply turning the device around and erasing. Maybe I am missing something on a use-based purpose. But the eraser is better for me. (4) The eraser acts like a button that triggers different functions with a click, double click or a click and hold. I have mine set up to open One Note on a single click and send a screenshot to one note on a double. Click and Hold open the windows Ink settings.
TL;DR The Apple Pencil has a better tactile feel in general, the Microsoft Pen more functionality and better utility.
Of course, the Micro SD isn't fast storage, but it is better than no extra storage and used for storing PDF's and other kinds of files where it is just a load and save type use, but it can save space on the SSD for applications and files that need to be loaded more quickly. Usefull when your not worried about speed and of course, it also doubles as a card reader if you have a camera or action cam which uses a MicroSD card. I am not 100% certain on this, but I believe the Surface Pro is capable of accepting a card up to 512GB capacity. I have not tried one that large.
Thanks! I like working outside when I can. The beer is from New Holland Brewery. It is a craft brewery located in Holland, Michigan. I found it at one of the local liquor stores. They say it is available in 38 states and 4 countries, so maybe you can find it in the U.K? But most of the craft breweries have a limited distribution. Ballast Point Victrory at Sea is another good one to try if you like a dark and robust beer
you’re “co-worker” seems content
I love dogs as well and the 3 of them get along great
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We are loving them. Very interesting devices, even though we use them very differently.
There's some glitches with iCloud For Windows, where sometimes new photos taken with my iPhone will instantly appear on my desktop (very nice feature that I would like to have 100%), and then it stops working for a while. No clue why. Irritating.. wish there was a better way. (waiting on onedrive is much slower and requires more steps for me to get to work)
And the email solutions are odd. I've been happy with outlook.com for all my email needs for years. But sharing a web page from Edge requires me to use the built in mail app. No option to just send a new email from outlook.com. Chrome has an extension for this that works great. And then, there's he full desktop version of Outlook (with Office 365) that there's no share option for either. I wouldn't mind trying it out if it would just allow me to use the share button in Edge. Ah well... copy and paste still works.
I have enjoyed Edge/Bing, after years of Safari/Google. No adjustment required. I'll likely stick with it.
Using OneNote has been fun too. I moved all my notes over from Apple Notes, and loaded Onenote on my phone. Works great, better organization.
Everything else has been a very pleasant learning curve. Wish we had purchased when they (2017) hit the market. I did buy one of the very early Surface Pros years ago and returned it a few days later. It was a very poor experience. They have come a loooong ways since then. Happy campers here
That is interesting. I have always used the Windows Mail App. I don't know why, maybe because it is the most similar to what I was used to with Mac Mail? But I never noticed that Edge would not allow Outlook as its default share. I thought maybe it would work if you go into settings and change the default mail program to Outlook, but that still doesn't work for Edge. Maybe the next version of Office will support that?
I haven't used Outlook since I switched to Mac many years ago. I really probably should give it another look.
Surface Pro prices have been slashed by $200 this weekend only- seems like a precursor for perhaps a hardware refresh of some sort? Maybe I will finally be able to get one of these once some announcements are made
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I am a big fan of Outlook- I struggle with Mac Mail and have a hard time managing all of my email on any other platform than Outlook-
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I am a big fan of Outlook- I struggle with Mac Mail and have a hard time managing all of my email on any other platform than Outlook-