Surface Devices

[Dave245]

I’ve been watching some videos on YouTube and this one did strike me the most, I know it’s from the Surface Pro 3 but it’s not the product that I find interesting here it’s what he says

“They would walk into a store and it doesn’t matter what store let me be super clear, the conflict exists, you walk into a store and you walk up to the slales person, you can stand between two clear tables and you ask the sales person what is it that I’m suppose to buy and most do because not everybody knows everything about anything and everything about everything and people are learning at all times which is wonderful, when they walk in they say what am I suppose to buy and what does the sales rep say almost every time? The response is so common it’s uncanny, it’s simple yet so complex, the response is this, what is it that you need to do? Well I’m about spend a thousand doallars I thought I need to do everything and that’s how you feel, that’s happening because of the conflict”

Do you think Panos was right when he was talking about this conflict? As a long term Apple user I’ve seen the iPad change, it use to be a consumption device but now Apple are moving it to a productivity device as well, however the need for a computer such as a MacBook or desktop like the iMac does still exist so you end up with at least two devices, if Apple had made a Surface type of device they could of elicited the conflict that Panos seems to be tasking about in this video.

Do you think that the Surface Pro and or Surface Book eliminates the conflict that he is talking about?

 

[SDColorado]

I’ve been watching some videos on YouTube and this one did strike me the most, I know it’s from the Surface Pro 3 but it’s not the product that I find interesting here it’s what he says

“They would walk into a store and it doesn’t matter what store let me be super clear, the conflict exists, you walk into a store and you walk up to the slales person, you can stand between two clear tables and you ask the sales person what is it that I’m suppose to buy and most do because not everybody knows everything about anything and everything about everything and people are learning at all times which is wonderful, when they walk in they say what am I suppose to buy and what does the sales rep say almost every time? The response is so common it’s uncanny, it’s simple yet so complex, the response is this, what is it that you need to do? Well I’m about spend a thousand doallars I thought I need to do everything and that’s how you feel, that’s happening because of the conflict”

Do you think Panos was right when he was talking about this conflict? As a long term Apple user I’ve seen the iPad change, it use to be a consumption device but now Apple are moving it to a productivity device as well, however the need for a computer such as a MacBook or desktop like the iMac does still exist so you end up with at least two devices, if Apple had made a Surface type of device they could of elicited the conflict that Panos seems to be tasking about in this video.

Do you think that the Surface Pro and or Surface Book eliminates the conflict that he is talking about?

I think so, which is why I bailed on the idea of a 10.5 or 12.9 iPad Pro after a couple go arounds with both sizes. Ultimately, once the newness wore off, I was using them primarily as a consumption device and I just couldn’t justify the cost over the 9.7 Pro I already had. Bigger? Better? Marginally.

So I started looking at the Surface Pro with some encouragement from Convergent and a couple of others on here. I hadn’t used Windows since the XP days and just couldn’t imagine buying a Windows device. But I love my Surface Pro and despite having an iMac and 15” MBP, the Surface Pro is the device I use most often. So Panos is on to something imho.

Despite not having a TB3, I am still tempting to return my new MBP for one. That’s about the only thing holding me back on that. Probably if I did that, I would sell the Surface Pro as well, since they are similar in concept, but I personally do like the concept.

 

[Dave245]

I think so, which is why I bailed on the idea of a 10.5 or 12.9 iPad Pro after a couple go arounds with both sizes. Ultimately, once the newness wore off, I was using them primarily as a consumption device and I just couldn’t justify the cost over the 9.7 Pro I already had. Bigger? Better? Marginally.

So I started looking at the Surface Pro with some encouragement from Convergent and a couple of others on here. I hadn’t used Windows since the XP days and just couldn’t imagine buying a Windows device. But I love my Surface Pro and despite having an iMac and 15” MBP, the Surface Pro is the device I use most often. So Panos is on to something imho.

Despite not having a TB3, I am still tempting to return my new MBP for one. That’s about the only thing holding me back on that. Probably if I did that, I would sell the Surface Pro as well, since they are similar in concept, but I personally do like the concept.

As soon as I heard him say the quote about standing between two tables I knew he was talking about the Apple store, the reason I knew is because I’ve done exactly what he was saying and he is 100% right about another thing, later in that video he says “96% of the time you buy two things, perhaps not on that day but you return when you didn’t get what you need” and he’s right, I’ve brought the iPad Pro and I own a laptop ie my 2011 MacBook Pro, I can’t do everything I want on my iPad Pro as much as I would love too.

At the moment I’m waiting to see what happens with Apple’s event in September but I’m very tempted to buy a Surface to go alongside whatever I decide with Apple and let them fight it out, if in the end I use the Surface Pro more I will dump the new MacBook and just stick with the Surface Pro and iMac as my main machines or the other way around if that turns out to be true.

There are rumours that Microsoft are working on a big redesign for early next year so I may wait for that instead, I could buy the new 12” MacBook this year if it’s updated next month and then wait for the new redesigned Surface Pro 5 next year and buy one of those. So many options too choose.

 

[SDColorado]

As soon as I heard him say the quotes about standing between two tables I knew he was talking about the Apple store, the reason I knew is because I’ve done exactly what he was saying and he is 100% right about another thing, later in that video he says “96% of the time you buy two things, perhaps not on that day but you return when you didn’t get what you need” and he’s right, I’ve brought the iPad Pro and I own a laptop ie my 2011 MacBook Pro, I can’t do everything I want on my iPad Pro as much as I would love too.

At the moment I’m waiting to see what happens with Apple’s event in September but I’m very tempted to buy a Surface to go alongside whatever I decide with Apple and let them fight it out, if in the end I use the Surface Pro more I will dump the new MacBook and just stick with the Surface Pro and iMac as my main machines or the other way around if that turns out to be true.

There are rumours that Microsoft are working on a big redesign for early next year so I may wait for that instead, I could buy the new 12” MacBook this year if it’s updated next month and then wait for the new redesigned Surface Pro 5 next year and buy one of those. So many options too choose.

There are some rumors/indications that Microsoft may have an October event and update some of their models including the Surface Studio, Surface Pro and (fingers crossed) the Surface Book 2.

https://www.t3.com/features/microsoft-surface-studio-2

I may have to swap my iMac out for a Surface Studio 2 if true.

If I had to be brutally honest, my iPad Pro 9.7" is *mostly* an $1100 web browser, email client and coloring book these days <sigh>

 

[Dave245]

There are some rumors/indications that Microsoft may have an October event and update some of their models including the Surface Studio, Surface Pro and (fingers crossed) the Surface Book 2.

https://www.t3.com/features/microsoft-surface-studio-2

I may have to swap my iMac out for a Surface Studio 2 if true.

If I had to be brutally honest, my iPad Pro 9.7" is *mostly* an $1100 web browser, email client and coloring book these days <sigh>

Do they send out invites like Apple? Would be interesting to see what they announce if they livestream I will watch.

Will they update the Surfacebook line tho? Didn’t the do that earlier this year?

 

[SDColorado]

Do they send out invites like Apple? Would be interesting to see what they announce if they livestream I will watch.

Will they update the Surfacebook line tho? Didn’t the do that earlier this year?

Sadly, rumors on the SB3 seem to be pointing to a 2019 release. I am not too sure when they do the announcements for fall/October releases. The September 24-28 Envision/Ignite Event in Florida I am guessing, but I am not certain.

 

[Dave245]

Sadly, rumors on the SB3 seem to be pointing to a 2019 release. I am not too sure when they do the announcements for fall/October releases. The September 24-28 Envision/Ignite Event in Florida I am guessing, but I am not certain.

I'm guessing if they do any Surface updates in the fall it will likely be spec updates only, i may hold out until the redesign of the Surface Pro that's been rumoured.

Just out of interest do you use the touch display on you're Surface? or more as a laptop?

 

[maflynn]

I'm guessing if they do any Surface updates in the fall it will likely be spec updates only, i may hold out until the redesign of the Surface Pro that's been rumoured.

Has Microsoft updated their Surface line in the fall before? I thought it was more of a spring time frame

 

[Dave245]

Has Microsoft updated their Surface line in the fall before? I thought it was more of a spring time frame

To be honest I don’t know i’m only going off what the other person said. I’ve never brought a Surface before so I’m new to the whole thing.

 

[SDColorado]

Has Microsoft updated their Surface line in the fall before? I thought it was more of a spring time frame

Surface Book 2 was announced October 2017 and released November 2017. But more the exception than the rule.

Edit: Surface Book was also released in October 2015 along with the Surface 4. Following the pattern, it might be October 2019 for the Surface Book 3

 

[SDColorado]

I'm guessing if they do any Surface updates in the fall it will likely be spec updates only, i may hold out until the redesign of the Surface Pro that's been rumoured.

Just out of interest do you use the touch display on you're Surface? or more as a laptop?

I do use the touch display on mine. Granted far more in tablet mode, but I use it in both modes.

 

[Dave245]

I do use the touch display on mine. Granted far more in tablet mode, but I use it in both modes.

The reason I ask is because I wonder how it performs in things like the web browser and applications, I wondered how it compares to the Touch Bar on the MacBook Pros. I’ve never used touch on a full desktop OS.

 

[SDColorado]

Touchbar is fairly limited. For example, while viewing this forum, the only option available with Touch Bar is arrows to go back to the previous page and a "Search or Enter Website Name," which of course just gets you to the web address field.

Where I find Touch Screen more useful is, first of all, you are already looking at the screen. No need to look down and see what options the Touch Bar decides to give you. I can touch any element that can be clicked, wither it is the formatting options in this reply, adding a photo or link, insert quotes, post reply, etc.

Selecting a different tab among those open in a browser. Touch Bar does that just fine. No real preference there.

Another example is Word. After opening word you get that windows for New, Recent, Shard, Open. Touch Bar gives you no options here. Touch screen you can touch "Open Other Documents," touch the document you want to open and there it is. Once the document is open, Touch Bar gives some basic formatting tools, but what if you want to insert a photo? Touch Bar is no help there. So you are using the trackpad to click Insert, click pictures, photo browser etc. With Touch Screen, you can do that with a finger or pen on the screen. There is always some debate on whether it is faster to use the trackpad or finger for this and that is really personal preference, but you won't be using the Touch Bar.

Scrubbing video you can do with Touch Bar, but is it easier to look down at the touch bar? Or just move the slider with your finger on a video you are already looking at. Same with Spotify and iTunes. Just easier when listening or wanting to scrub threw new releases or discovery to find a new song to add to a list to simply scrub the song with finger.

Personal preference though. With a MacBook Pro you can obviously do everything you can on a Touch Screen, Though sometimes through a combo of Touch Bar, TrackPad, and Keyboard shortcut. Sometimes the trackpad and keyboard shortcuts are faster, sometimes they aren't. A lot of times I just find it easier to touch what I am already looking at.

 

[kazmac]

There are some rumors/indications that Microsoft may have an October event and update some of their models including the Surface Studio, Surface Pro and (fingers crossed) the Surface Book 2.

https://www.t3.com/features/microsoft-surface-studio-2

I may have to swap my iMac out for a Surface Studio 2 if true.

If I had to be brutally honest, my iPad Pro 9.7" is *mostly* an $1100 web browser, email client and coloring book these days <sigh>

I can relate on iPP being a way overpriced browser & sketchbook.

If they update the Surface Studio, depending on the specs - I may also jump ship and replace my iMac. I am hoping MS do, as I love the idea of that machine and want more flexibility in what I can do with a desktop. Being able to adjust the screen and draw on it, would be huge for me.

 

[Dave245]

Touchbar is fairly limited. For example, while viewing this forum, the only option available with Touch Bar is arrows to go back to the previous page and a "Search or Enter Website Name," which of course just gets you to the web address field.

Where I find Touch Screen more useful is, first of all, you are already looking at the screen. No need to look down and see what options the Touch Bar decides to give you. I can touch any element that can be clicked, wither it is the formatting options in this reply, adding a photo or link, insert quotes, post reply, etc.

Selecting a different tab among those open in a browser. Touch Bar does that just fine. No real preference there.

Another example is Word. After opening word you get that windows for New, Recent, Shard, Open. Touch Bar gives you no options here. Touch screen you can touch "Open Other Documents," touch the document you want to open and there it is. Once the document is open, Touch Bar gives some basic formatting tools, but what if you want to insert a photo? Touch Bar is no help there. So you are using the trackpad to click Insert, click pictures, photo browser etc. With Touch Screen, you can do that with a finger or pen on the screen. There is always some debate on whether it is faster to use the trackpad or finger for this and that is really personal preference, but you won't be using the Touch Bar.

Scrubbing video you can do with Touch Bar, but is it easier to look down at the touch bar? Or just move the slider with your finger on a video you are already looking at. Same with Spotify and iTunes. Just easier when listening or wanting to scrub threw new releases or discovery to find a new song to add to a list to simply scrub the song with finger.

Personal preference though. With a MacBook Pro you can obviously do everything you can on a Touch Screen, Though sometimes through a combo of Touch Bar, TrackPad, and Keyboard shortcut. Sometimes the trackpad and keyboard shortcuts are faster, sometimes they aren't. A lot of times I just find it easier to touch what I am already looking at.

For some reason they are dead against touch screens with full desktop Os’s, the Touch Bar seems to be their compromise. I wonder if they will improve it as time goes on, maybe add more features and so on.

The one thing I do wonder is if it’s all part of the Marzipan plan for next year, bringing IOS apps to the Mac and adding touch support via the Touch Bar at least seems to make sense (at least to me) given that IOS is Touch.

 

[SteveJUAE]

For some reason they are dead against touch screens with full desktop Os’s, the Touch Bar seems to be their compromise. I wonder if they will improve it as time goes on, maybe add more features and so on.

The one thing I do wonder is if it’s all part of the Marzipan plan for next year, bringing IOS apps to the Mac and adding touch support via the Touch Bar at least seems to make sense (at least to me) given that IOS is Touch.

Really I think it would be trackpad use that would make the difference not the Touch Bar

 

[SDColorado]

For some reason they are dead against touch screens with full desktop Os’s, the Touch Bar seems to be their compromise. I wonder if they will improve it as time goes on, maybe add more features and so on.

The one thing I do wonder is if it’s all part of the Marzipan plan for next year, bringing IOS apps to the Mac and adding touch support via the Touch Bar at least seems to make sense (at least to me) given that IOS is Touch.

Hard to say with Apple. Didn't Steve Jobs say that Apple would never have a device that used a stylus or have a big phone? Today Apple has both. I wouldn't be surprised if we eventually see IOS/MACOS hybrid laptops and desktops that have a full touch screen.

I don't know if Touch Bar will ever be more than a novelty. It seems Apple has left it to developers to add functionality to it, and other than a couple innovators like Better Touch Tool, most don't seem terribly interested.

 

[convergent]

This has been good reading as I've been waiting for the new Surface Pro to arrive after ordering it last Friday. After what seems like an eternity, it finally arrived yesterday. And like normal... after several days of monotonous boredom, life got crazy as hell before I could find an opportunity open the package this evening. Sigh..

Anyhow, first impressions are good. Everything works! The updates were anticipated, but pretty simplified compared to my windows exit days (of 2012-ish). I had to think a few times, which iPad must have made me lazy about. But I welcomed it. At every turn, there's a menu! Offering choices! Holy bat out of hell! It feels like a Shawshank Redemption style escape. lol

I (she... I don't ebay) got the 12.9 iPad listed none too soon. I am not missing it. Our shared iMac is also pretty much hers now, though I will retain my account on it for now.. (only way I can print until I set it up)

Most welcome is the real keyboard that was included in the best buy purchase. Very nice, with zero adoption required. I don't feel too warm about the trackpad yet, but I am giving it a good college try before ordering a mouse.

Anyhow, a few hours in and I'm pretty impressed. It will take some time to relearn Windows but it is refreshingly simple and capable at the same time. I'm pretty sure this concludes my exit from iPad and Mac OS. No more limitations is quite nice.

Still digging the iPhone though. Hope they can keep up with emerging tech so I can stick around here. This forum is one of the few that has stayed compelling with regards to personal computing.

I find the Surface Pro trackpad fine when i'm mobile. Give it some time and adjust the settings to your liking. When I'm at my desk I use the Surface Mouse which is very cool. It folds out flat for travel.

 

[TWO2SEVEN]

I am going in to a new line of work and will need something portable. I will only really be using internet based portals for my work. How far back can I safely go in the Surface line and still get decent performance? My 2011 MMP is showing its age and right now a new Apple product isn't in the budget.

Thanks!

 

[SDColorado]

I am going in to a new line of work and will need something portable. I will only really be using internet based portals for my work. How far back can I safely go in the Surface line and still get decent performance? My 2011 MMP is showing its age and right now a new Apple product isn't in the budget.

Thanks!

You might be able to get by with the m3/128SSD/4GB RAM model for $799, but why when the i5/128SSD/8GB model is $200 off and selling for the same $799.

The i5/256/8GB model is also $200 and selling for $1,099.

Do you have a Microsoft Store near you? You do have a 30 day return period in which to try it out. I probably drove my local store crazy by starting at the lowest I thought I thought I could use and then doing 3 exchanges to find that sweet spot, keeling each one like 26 days. Oh well

Edit: Thats not entirely true, I did return my first one pretty quick deciding I wanted the 512SSD

 

[TWO2SEVEN]

You might be able to get by with the m3/128SSD/4GB RAM model for $799, but why when the i5/128SSD/8GB model is $200 off and selling for the same $799.

The i5/256/8GB model is also $200 and selling for $1,099.

Do you have a Microsoft Store near you? You do have a 30 day return period in which to try it out. I probably drove my local store crazy by starting at the lowest I thought I thought I could use and then doing 3 exchanges to find that sweet spot, keeling each one like 26 days. Oh well

Edit: Thats not entirely true, I did return my first one pretty quick deciding I wanted the 512SSD

Thank you for the info.

For now I’m looking at Swappa. Looks like they go back to the Surface 3.

 

[SDColorado]

Thank you for the info.

For now I’m looking at Swappa. Looks like they go back to the Surface 3.

I have no real familiarity with anything earlier than the 2017. Though I do know a few of the differences between the 3 and 4 is screen size 10.8 vs 12.3, display resolution and processor. Not sure what else.

 

[TWO2SEVEN]

I have no real familiarity with anything earlier than the 2017. Though I do know a few of the differences between the 3 and 4 is screen size 10.8 vs 12.3, display resolution and processor. Not sure what else.

Thank you!

 

[The_Interloper]

I am going in to a new line of work and will need something portable. I will only really be using internet based portals for my work. How far back can I safely go in the Surface line and still get decent performance? My 2011 MMP is showing its age and right now a new Apple product isn't in the budget.

Surface 3 - eMMC storage, Atom processor, 2Gb-4Gb RAM, 10.8 inch screen, 3-point kickstand. Avoid.

Surface Pro 3 - Core i3/i5/i7 (Haswell), SSD, 4gb-16Gb RAM, 12.3 inch, full travel kickstand.

Surface Pro 4 - Core m3/i5/i7 (Skylake), SSD, 4gb-16Gb RAM, 12.3 inch. More kickstand travel than Pro 3.

Surface Pro (2017) - Core m3/i5 (fanless)/i7 (Kaby Lake), SSD, 4gb-16Gb RAM, 12.3 inch. Kickstand goes almost fully flat.

In short, you'll probably still get good performance from the Pro 3 but the Pro 4 and Pro 2017 are excellent iterative improvements. The Pro 4 can suffer from screen flicker issues, so inspect it fully before you buy.

 

[xraydoc]

In short, you'll probably still get good performance from the Pro 3 but the Pro 4 and Pro 2017 are excellent iterative improvements. The Pro 4 can suffer from screen flicker issues, so inspect it fully before you buy.

I have a SP3. It still holds up reasonably well in terms of speed with basic desktop/browsing tasks. The battery on mine, on the other hand, is definitely showing its age (and wasn't good to begin with). And it'll kick on the fans if I do anything but browse text pages on MS Edge. Otherwise, it gets hot and the fans come on.

The displays on the SP4 and SP2017 are slightly higher in resolution than the SP3, too.

I'm unfortunately thinking about a new Windows device - either an SP2017 or something like a Dell XPS 13. Different form factors, for sure, but since my computing needs are essentially all work related these days (and I have my trusty iMac running iTunes server duties in my house for my Apple TVs), I don't need major CPU power.

My SP3 is pissing me off over the last couple of weeks, however. While everything else works well, Outlook on Office 365 keeps killing itself. Any time I try to configure an email account on it, it fails then refuses to launch, giving some configuration error. Repairs, re-installs and Windows resets don't help. Error just comes back when I try again. May just have to nuke the whole OS and start from scratch.