Surface Devices

[Dave245]

To be 100% I’m leaning towards trying a Surface, there seems to be issues with the MacBook Pros, first the thermal throttling and now the crackling speakers that people are reporting.

Really don’t know what’s happened to Apple with the Mac’s just lately. At the moment I’m torn between a Surface to go alongside my iMac or the 12” MacBook.

For those that are more in the know when it comes to Microsoft, are they likely to update the Surface Pro this year? I might wait until October and see what happens.

 

[SDColorado]

To be 100% I’m leaning towards trying a Surface, there seems to be issues with the MacBook Pros, first the thermal throttling and now the crackling speakers that people are reporting.

Really don’t know what’s happened to Apple with the Mac’s just lately. At the moment I’m torn between a Surface to go alongside my iMac or the 12” MacBook.

For those that are more in the know when it comes to Microsoft, are they likely to update the Surface Pro this year? I might wait until October and see what happens.

I honestly don’t think you will see an update in October. I purchased mine August 2017 and in March 2018 they released the LTE versions the public (previously only available to business sales on initial release in December).

That said, if you have the luxury to wait until October, you could. But you likely won’t see an update until 2019 (early or mid depending on which rumor mill you give more credit to)

 

[bluespark]

To be 100% I’m leaning towards trying a Surface, there seems to be issues with the MacBook Pros, first the thermal throttling and now the crackling speakers that people are reporting.

Really don’t know what’s happened to Apple with the Mac’s just lately. At the moment I’m torn between a Surface to go alongside my iMac or the 12” MacBook.

For those that are more in the know when it comes to Microsoft, are they likely to update the Surface Pro this year? I might wait until October and see what happens.

Not trying to discourage you from the Surface, but the thermal throttling issue was one of those first-week, software-fixable issues that wouldn't get any attention at all if it were not Apple. It affected only one iteration of the processor and isn't an issue now that Apple released the updated software. This sort of thing happens all the time to computer manufacturers and they rarely respond as rapidly as Apple did.

The Surface lineup is great and well worth trying for other reasons -- I just didn't want you to place too much weight on the throttling issue.
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That’s great, the Surface is a unique type of device I think that’s why it gives off that Air type of feel. Apple still refuse to make a Surface type of device, I don’t know if it’s because they truely think it’s a bad experience OR if they are afraid to cannibalise iPad and or Mac sales.

I was thinking games more like Sims, Age of empires, that type of thing really nothing too heavy or demanding.

I'm not a gamer but I agree with you about the Surface "feel." It's the feel of innovation, and we haven't felt it enough lately.

 

[Dave245]

Not trying to discourage you from the Surface, but the thermal throttling issue was one of those first-week, software-fixable issues that wouldn't get any attention at all if it were not Apple. It affected only one iteration of the processor and isn't an issue now that Apple released the updated software. This sort of thing happens all the time to computer manufacturers and they rarely respond as rapidly as Apple did.

The Surface lineup is great and well worth trying for other reasons -- I just didn't want you to place too much weight on the throttling issue.
[doublepost=1534199255][/doublepost]

I'm not a gamer but I agree with you about the Surface "feel." It's the feel of innovation, and we haven't felt it enough lately.

Ok, so the typical tech media overreaction because it’s an Apple product, why does that not surprise me.

Yea I’m thinking of trying one alongside my Mac, don’t get me wrong I still love MacOS and with Mojave it’s adding features that I will use, but after trying the Surface in a Curry’s PC world here in the U.K. I was impressed with the build quality and even the device itself, I was very surprised at how putting a full OS (Windows) on a tablet looking device actually works, I wasn’t expecting that at all.

For years Apple have said that it’s a diluted product and try’s to be too many things (Time Cook’s famous toaster and refrigerator comment) so I was surprised to find that I actually liked the look and feel of the Surface in person.

I’m going to wait and see what Apple announce/release at the September or October event (if they hold one) but I can definitely see myself trying a Surface device! Maybe the Surface Go, I don’t know yet.

I just hope that a Surface and my Apple products can at least co-exist together

 

[xraydoc]

I've actually been thinking about the SurfaceBook 2 to be honest. The ability to detach the screen and use it like a tablet is really interesting. If only it had a cover (not even a keyboard; just a 'smartcover') that could be added while carrying it around and a kickstand.

The SB2 has a USB-C port. Seems like the Surface Pro is due for one soon.

 

[SDColorado]

I just hope that a Surface and my Apple products can at least co-exist together

I think Apple gets a lot more flack for some things than other brands do. Apple got a lot of heat (pun intended) for the thermal issues with the i9, to which they issued a patch to largely remedy the issue. By the same token it appears the Dell XPS 15” with i9 clocks way down while on battery power. That doesn’t appear to be as big a deal for owners because it’s not Apple. If the MBP did that there would be wailing and hand wringing and curses sent the way of Tim Cook.

That said, the Surface will co-exist just fine with your Apple products. They have more in common than not, other than a little learning curve if you haven’t used Windows in awhile. The Surface Pro is currently my only Windows device among a bunch of Apple ones and I hadn’t used Windows since the XP days.

After the learning curve I quickly enjoyed using it. iCloud for Windows syncs my photos, calendars, etc just fine.

The only thing I do miss, just a little, is iMessage messages not appearing on the Surface Pro as they do on all the other Apple devotes. But since I have my Apple Watch on most times and my phone nearby, it’s a minor thing.

 

[Dave245]

I think Apple gets a lot more flack for some things than other brands do. Apple got a lot of heat (pun intended) for the thermal issues with the i9, to which they issued a patch to largely remedy the issue. By the same token it appears the Dell XPS 15” with i9 clocks way down while on battery power. That doesn’t appear to be as big a deal for owners because it’s not Apple. If the MBP did that there would be wailing and hand wringing and curses sent the way of Tim Cook.

That said, the Surface will co-exist just fine with your Apple products. They have more in common than not, other than a little learning curve if you haven’t used Windows in awhile. The Surface Pro is currently my only Windows device among a bunch of Apple ones and I hadn’t used Windows since the XP days.

After the learning curve I quickly enjoyed using it. iCloud for Windows syncs my photos, calendars, etc just fine.

The only thing I do miss, just a little, is iMessage messages not appearing on the Surface Pro as they do on all the other Apple devotes. But since I have my Apple Watch on most times and my phone nearby, it’s a minor thing.

You make a very good point, even tho I want to try out a Surface for my workflow and daily usage I still love Apple products in fact I’m deep in the Apple ecosystem with iPhone X, iPad Pro, MacBook Pro 2011, iMac 2012, Apple Watch, Apple TV and HomePod, you could say I’m really deep down the Apple ecosystem, BUT that doesn’t stop me from appreciating other products from other companies.

The one thing that does frustrate me a little is Apple’s firm stance on devices like the Surface Pro and Surface Book, they don’t even seem to willing to admit they might be wrong with what they have said in the past (Tim Cooks comment about a toaster and refrigerator amount others).
At first glance it does seem a silly idea to put a full OS into a device as small and tablet looking as the Surface and I was very critical of it myself in the past, however having tried out the Surface Pro in a Curry’s PC world (here in the U.K.) I have to admit that I was wrong, very wrong! The feel of the Surface is that if a premium machine, while I’m not a big fan of Windows ( I haven’t used it since before 2011) I do see the potential of having a full blown computer/OS in a small on the move device.

You mention that you have a Surface Pro, the device I’m looking at getting, could you answer a could of questions that I currently have?

1. Is the Surface Pro able to run full desktop programmes?
2. Does the Surface Pro need anti virus? I remember the annoyance I went through years ago with it
3. How well do the devices hold up over time? By that I mean do they last as long as Mac’s? My 2011 MBP is still going

 

[SDColorado]

My opinion is that both the Surface Pro and the iPad are Toaster and Refridgerator type devices. Tim Cook tries to be critical of the Surface Pro while trying to emphasize that the iPad is a tablet that can also be a laptop replacement. Apple sends a very mixed message about the iPad. On one hand they try to claim it isn't a refrigerator/toaster type device like the Surface Pro. Then they say it can be a laptop replacement. Then they have an ad with a kid enjoying his iPad and the mother asks him something about whether he is enjoying his "new computer," to which the kid responds "Whats a computer?" OK Tim, is it a tablet, is it a computer and a possible laptop replacement as you suggest? Or is it not a computer as your ad suggests? You can't have it both ways... unless it's a toaster/refrigerator device also

My own opinion having a 9.7" iPad and having tried the cycle of 12.9 iPad Pro, to Surface Pro, back to 12.9 iPad Pro thinking I missed the Apple ecosystem with that, back to Surface Pro because I missed that device more, is that they both have toaster/refrigerator elements to them. The Surface Pro is more refrigerator and a little toaster. It is basically a lightweight and mobile laptop, which can be used as a suitable tablet device between the touch screen and the pen. The iPad Pro is primarily a toaster (tablet device) that can at times be used as a laptop replacement (refrigerator). The question is what is your primary use? Do you need a refrigerator with a toaster slot or a toaster with a mini icebox

For me, I needed the small and lightweight laptop device primarily that could also be used as a tablet, can be charged in the car with a 12v adapter, be able to have people sign documents with the pen, use for powerpoint presentations, etc. The Surface Pro works much better for me.


In answer to the questions:

1) Absolutely the Surface Pro can use full desktop programs. Surface Pro, unlike the Surface Go, comes with Windows Pro 64-bit standard. The Go can also run full desktop programs, but you need to make a switch in settings to go from 10S to Pro.

2) Surface Pro includes its own antivirus called Windows Defender. It is all I use. I update it daily and haven't had any issues in the year I have owned it, but I also don't surf the dark web. There are more robust solutions available if you need them for both PC and Mac.

3) I had to exchange my first one, not unlike many Mac purchases I have made. There was an issue with that one where the keyboard kept freezing until I detached it and re-attached it. They swapped the keyboard first and that wasn't the answer. This one I have had a year and it has been flawless. I purchased it as a business purchase (only a business card needed to set it up) and added a business warranty (Microsoft Complete for Business ) that can be up to 4 years in length and includes two incidences of accidental damage with no deductible. A 4-year plan is $399 for the Surface Pro.

Setting up as a business also gets you discounts on the device, accessories, service plans, etc. I think they are the same as the educational discounts.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/business/extended-service-warranty

 

[Dave245]

My opinion is that both the Surface Pro and the iPad are Toaster and Refridgerator type devices. Tim Cook tries to be critical of the Surface Pro while trying to emphasize that the iPad is a tablet that can also be a laptop replacement. Apple sends a very mixed message about the iPad. On one hand they try to claim it isn't a refrigerator/toaster type device like the Surface Pro. Then they say it can be a laptop replacement. Then they have an ad with a kid enjoying his iPad and the mother asks him something about whether he is enjoying his "new computer," to which the kid responds "Whats a computer?" OK Tim, is it a tablet, is it a computer and a possible laptop replacement as you suggest? Or is it not a computer as your ad suggests? You can't have it both ways... unless it's a toaster/refrigerator device also

My own opinion having a 9.7" iPad and having tried the cycle of 12.9 iPad Pro, to Surface Pro, back to 12.9 iPad Pro thinking I missed the Apple ecosystem with that, back to Surface Pro because I missed that device more, is that they both have toaster/refrigerator elements to them. The Surface Pro is more refrigerator and a little toaster. It is basically a lightweight and mobile laptop, which can be used as a suitable tablet device between the touch screen and the pen. The iPad Pro is primarily a toaster (tablet device) that can at times be used as a laptop replacement (refrigerator). The question is what is your primary use? Do you need a refrigerator with a toaster slot or a toaster with a mini icebox

For me, I needed the small and lightweight laptop device primarily that could also be used as a tablet, can be charged in the car with a 12v adapter, be able to have people sign documents with the pen, use for powerpoint presentations, etc. The Surface Pro works much better for me.


In answer to the questions:

1) Absolutely the Surface Pro can use full desktop programs. Surface Pro, unlike the Surface Go, comes with Windows Pro 64-bit standard. The Go can also run full desktop programs, but you need to make a switch in settings to go from 10S to Pro.

2) Surface Pro includes its own antivirus called Windows Defender. It is all I use. I update it daily and haven't had any issues in the year I have owned it, but I also don't surf the dark web. There are more robust solutions available if you need them for both PC and Mac.

3) I had to exchange my first one, not unlike many Mac purchases I have made. There was an issue with that one where the keyboard kept freezing until I detached it and re-attached it. They swapped the keyboard first and that wasn't the answer. This one I have had a year and it has been flawless. I purchased it as a business purchase (only a business card needed to set it up) and added a business warranty (Microsoft Complete for Business ) that can be up to 4 years in length and includes two incidences of accidental damage with no deductible. A 4-year plan is $399 for the Surface Pro.

Setting up as a business also gets you discounts on the device, accessories, service plans, etc. I think they are the same as the educational discounts.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/business/extended-service-warranty

Yea I wonder if Apple were even working on an iPad Pro before they saw the Surface? and people kept on asking for such a device to be made by them, the iPad Pro seems to be a device that’s their compromise between the two. If I could ask Tim Cook personally I would ask him if he genuinely doesn’t like hybrid devices like the Surface OR is it because he and Apple wants people to buy both an iPad and Mac laptop.

I’m glad the Surface can run full desktop programs I think that’s what sets it apart from my iPad Pro. If I can play a few games on it (nothing heavy just PC based games like Age of empires and Sims then I would be happy with that as well as running apps like Final Draft, Affinity Photo, Pixelmator and so on.

If I could get the Surface Pro to do a lot of the things I do on my MacBook Pro 2011 I would simply keep my iMac but replace my MacBook Pro 2011 with the Surface Pro. I still want to keep a Mac because I love MacOS and with Mojave coming later this year it’s got some great features like dark mode that I will be using.

I’m coming to the thinking that Apple are wrong on this, I think the Surface is something different, something Apple could of done themselves.

 

[SDColorado]

Yea I wonder if Apple were even working on an iPad Pro before they saw the Surface? and people kept on asking for such a device to be made by them, the iPad Pro seems to be a device that’s their compromise between the two. If I could ask Tim Cook personally I would ask him if he genuinely doesn’t like hybrid devices like the Surface OR is it because he and Apple wants people to buy both an iPad and Mac laptop.

I’m glad the Surface can run full desktop programs I think that’s what sets it apart from my iPad Pro. If I can play a few games on it (nothing heavy just PC based games like Age of empires and Sims then I would be happy with that as well as running apps like Final Draft, Affinity Photo, Pixelmator and so on.

If I could get the Surface Pro to do a lot of the things I do on my MacBook Pro 2011 I would simply keep my iMac but replace my MacBook Pro 2011 with the Surface Pro. I still want to keep a Mac because I love MacOS and with Mojave coming later this year it’s got some great features like dark mode that I will be using.

I’m coming to the thinking that Apple are wrong on this, I think the Surface is something different, something Apple could of done themselves.

As to whether or not they were working on the Pro before the Surface is a good question and one I certainly don't know the answer to. It is a good device, but its a very different one. I honestly use my 9.7 MBP more as a media consumption device, coloring and checking email before bed. It almost never leaves my nightstand. I thought with the 12.9 size that I might find more utility/productivity in it. But for *me* at least, the smell of something new quickly faded and it ended up just being a bigger version of the 9.7 I already owned. Unfortunatley Apple also only gives a 14 day return period, so you have to make up your mind fairly quickly as to whether or not it is worth what you just spent on it. I felt the 12.9 iPad Pro was not.

I would not be surprised if Tim owned a Surface/Yoga/Hybrid device himself, despite feigning digust for them. Of course Apple wants to keep you in the ecosystem and sell you iMac/Mac Pro, MBP, iPad, Apple Watch, iPhone, etc. along with the ancillary services and accessories. You find the deeper you get into that ecosystem, the harder it is to think about being outside of it. That sells product and helps make you a trillion dollar company. You can't blame them, it obviously works.

The Microsoft Store experience was a little different. They sell Dell, HP, Razer, Asus, MSI and some othere brands in the store right along with the Microsoft ones and they genuinly didn't seem to care whether I purchased a Microsoft product or another brand. They were showing me a Yoga (or something like it, I forget now) and a Surface Pro side by side and explaining the pluses and minuses of both of them. I suppose in the case of Microsoft, the focus is on selling more the OS, Office 365 and other services over the hardware itself? It was an interesting experience though. Could you imagine if Apple allowed other manufactures to make computers with Mac OS on it and you could walk into an Apple Store and compare 2 or more computer brands running Mac OS side by side? It would be a much different shopping experience and the competition would likely bring prices down.

I use Affinity Photo and Luminar/Aurora on mine as well as the office apps, etc. For presentations I have a device I purchased from them that connects between a USB and HDMI on a TV and transmits wirelessly to it.

Part of the issue/debate that I am going through at the moment is I just purchased a new 2018 15" MBP with the intent of using it to replace an iMac for desktop use with a 4K monitor and eGPU. BUT since I use the Surface Pro for the vast majority of my mobile computing, I wonder if I really do need the MBP. Every once in awhile I like the graphics oomph of a dedicated GPU though. In the meantime I also keep looking at Surface Book 2, Dell XPS 15 and a few others instead of the MBP.

I have gotten very comfortable with Windows 10 and don't have any major preferences. Windows does some things better, Mac OS does some things better. Windows is better optimized for some things, Final Cut runs far better on MacOS, etc.

I tried a MacBook Air a number of years ago and returned it. I didn't like the display over the 13" MBP at the time and didn't see the utility of a *slightly* smaller, *slightly* thinner and *slightly* lighter device that was purely a laptop.

A hybrid device that runs full MacOS in a Surface Pro form factor?? For me at least the answer would be "shut up and take my money."

 

[Jacoblee23]

I purchased the 8gb/128 surface go today with the alacantra type cover. I have three Macs so I was hesitant about getting a windows device again. I so far have been impressed by how fast this thing is and the keyboard may be one of my favorite keyboards ever. I do miss having IMessage and things like that.

 

[SteveJUAE]

I purchased the 8gb/128 surface go today with the alacantra type cover. I have three Macs so I was hesitant about getting a windows device again. I so far have been impressed by how fast this thing is and the keyboard may be one of my favorite keyboards ever. I do miss having IMessage and things like that.

Congrats and enjoy

Remember not having notifications from your iPhone is not a W10 restriction its an IOS problem

Still if your mobile is not at arms reach and you have an AW that's even closer than your GO LOL

 

[maflynn]

I purchased the 8gb/128 surface go today with the alacantra type cover. I have three Macs so I was hesitant about getting a windows device again. I so far have been impressed by how fast this thing is and the keyboard may be one of my favorite keyboards ever. I do miss having IMessage and things like that.

Congrats, I agree about iMessage, its those types of things that helped drive me back to the Mac. There were other services/usage scenarios that helped, but the Surface Go is a nice product. Good luck

 

[SteveJUAE]

Congrats, I agree about iMessage, its those types of things that helped drive me back to the Mac. There were other services/usage scenarios that helped, but the Surface Go is a nice product. Good luck

Whilst I agree Apple probably and currently have the nicest integration between mobile and laptop it's also the most restrictive unless you live in the US and a handful of other countries where all your friends may have Iphones

Although many of these features were once exclusive that has greatly diminished now and quite likely if not already Imessage users etc are the minority for emessaging

Likewise with many Apple services these rapidly fall off depending on your local

But I understand the attraction where it works well

 

[Jacoblee23]

Congrats and enjoy

Remember not having notifications from your iPhone is not a W10 restriction its an IOS problem

Still if your mobile is not at arms reach and you have an AW that's even closer than your GO LOL

I have a series 3 apple watch so I guess it isn't the end of the world lol.
[doublepost=1534339820][/doublepost]Can some of you all here who have had or have surfaces or windows devices tell me some neat things that I can do that I cannot do or do as well on my macs? Thank you in advance.

 

[Spinning Fan]

I recently purchased a Surface Book 2 '15 for work BYOD because I just could not convince myself to invest in a MBP line that had not (in my view) cleared up a potential HW issue (keyboard failure). Actually received it on the same day as the 2018 MBP release, could have returned it within 30 days, but decided to keep it.

The SB2 is a fine machine, and although I am a bit worried about what would happen 2 years from now when the extended warranty ends, it serves its purpose for me.

I don't necessarily find the tablet or 2-in-1 aspect of the Surface line that attractive due to the iPad world having a much more robust app ecosystem for things that are used in my daily life, so it is being used mainly as a notebook PC with a touch screen. I still own an iPad Pro '12, and most of my home stuff is done there or on an ancient 2013 MBA '11 that still runs great, except for the lack of screen resolution.

Took time to get back into the Windows idiosyncrasies, and still prefer a Mac for most things at home, but the one thing the SB2 (or Windows in general, I suppose) does better than the Mac, IMHO, is DAW software.. in my case Pro-Tools.

Although I don't do much production work anymore, I just find the options more robust and controls smoother on the Win platform than on OSX on the limited occasions that I had to go and edit/master, even with a non-optimized system like the SB2. Helped that the company is footing the bill for the license .. never owned a windows version up until now..

Outside of these specific trade-craft tools and MS Office usage, I could probably live in either world and be happy.. I'm just more Mac-centric due to previously having invested so much in the Apple ecosystem, so I would think my next home upgrade would be a Mac of some type.

Sorry for the long winded post.

 

[SteveJUAE]

I have a series 3 apple watch so I guess it isn't the end of the world lol.
[doublepost=1534339820][/doublepost]Can some of you all here who have had or have surfaces or windows devices tell me some neat things that I can do that I cannot do or do as well on my macs? Thank you in advance.

The chances are you should be able to mirror to your TV without any apps or adaptors or AppleTV

MS also make a nice little wireless device for casting to say a projector

 

[Dave245]

I recently purchased a Surface Book 2 '15 for work BYOD because I just could not convince myself to invest in a MBP line that had not (in my view) cleared up a potential HW issue (keyboard failure). Actually received it on the same day as the 2018 MBP release, could have returned it within 30 days, but decided to keep it.

The SB2 is a fine machine, and although I am a bit worried about what would happen 2 years from now when the extended warranty ends, it serves its purpose for me.

I don't necessarily find the tablet or 2-in-1 aspect of the Surface line that attractive due to the iPad world having a much more robust app ecosystem for things that are used in my daily life, so it is being used mainly as a notebook PC with a touch screen. I still own an iPad Pro '12, and most of my home stuff is done there or on an ancient 2013 MBA '11 that still runs great, except for the lack of screen resolution.

Took time to get back into the Windows idiosyncrasies, and still prefer a Mac for most things at home, but the one thing the SB2 (or Windows in general, I suppose) does better than the Mac, IMHO, is DAW software.. in my case Pro-Tools.

Although I don't do much production work anymore, I just find the options more robust and controls smoother on the Win platform than on OSX on the limited occasions that I had to go and edit/master, even with a non-optimized system like the SB2. Helped that the company is footing the bill for the license .. never owned a windows version up until now..

Outside of these specific trade-craft tools and MS Office usage, I could probably live in either world and be happy.. I'm just more Mac-centric due to previously having invested so much in the Apple ecosystem, so I would think my next home upgrade would be a Mac of some type.

Sorry for the long winded post.

Could you upload some photo's of you're set up?

I still love to use a Mac, in fact i'm tying this on my 2012 iMac it's a great machine and with 27" display it's big enough to split screen and have many files open, however with a laptop i'm looking for something that's portable but doesn't need to be all that powerful since the most i will be doing on it is, word processing, web browsing, watching Youtube and Netflix, i also would play some Windows games if i got a Surface device (Sims, Age of empires that kind of thing).

I also have the iPad Pro 12.9" for drawing, hand written notes and photo editing in Affinity Photo and Pixelmator. I may very well pick up a Surface Pro to go along side of my Mac's and IOS devices, my thinking is that in doing so i can play games (something i can't do on Mac since most are windows based) but also be able to do more not only on the go but also at home since the Surface strikes me as a device that can be used on the sofa, in bed, in the office or just about anywhere. Also the fact that the Surface can run full desktop apps is also very appealing to me.

The only thing that has stopped me buying one so far is Windows! i'm such a big MacOS fan that i worry Windows will be mind boggling.

 

[SDColorado]

The only thing that has stopped me buying one so far is Windows! i'm such a big MacOS fan that i worry Windows will be mind boggling.

I thought the same as you, having not used Windows since XP, the idea of buying a Windows based machine was intimidating to me. But, I purchased the machine and a book on Windows 10 Pro. After a little learning curve and the initial "What the heck did I just do" feeling, I have learned to really like Windows 10 and I like the idea of being comfortable using both.

Can some of you all here who have had or have surfaces or windows devices tell me some neat things that I can do that I cannot do or do as well on my macs? Thank you in advance.

One thing that comes to mind I suppose, is being able to use touch, mouse, keyboard and pen on a laptop like device, running a full OS

 

[SteveJUAE]

One thing that comes to mind I suppose, is being able to use touch, mouse, keyboard and pen on a laptop like device, running a full OS

Funny you should note that but I guess for many it seems so obvious

This is the nice thing about laptops that have touch your free to use them as much or as little as you like. Even if you are not an avid user of touch it sort of creeps up on you by stealth. You only realise this when you use a non touch laptop and suddenly realise your tapping or swiping the screen and nothing happens

It's this flexibility of input/interaction that adapts to you. Touch is all around us from Phones to menus in malls, airports, restaurants, lifts and door entries etc that you simply accept

This sort of behaviour becomes natural especially when you have a big OK button in front of you

I find I am forever swiping left or right from the screen edge to bring up menus that are for desktops or notification and quick access menus. It really annoys me on the Mrs rMB running W10 when nothing happens LOL

 

[SDColorado]

Funny you should note that but I guess for many it seems so obvious

This is the nice thing about laptops that have touch your free to use them as much or as little as you like. Even if you are not an avid user of touch it sort of creeps up on you by stealth. You only realise this when you use a non touch laptop and suddenly realise your tapping or swiping the screen and nothing happens

It's this flexibility of input/interaction that adapts to you. Touch is all around us from Phones to menus in malls, airports, restaurants, lifts and door entries etc that you simply accept

This sort of behaviour becomes natural especially when you have a big OK button in front of you

I find I am forever swiping left or right from the screen edge to bring up menus that are for desktops or notification and quick access menus. It really annoys me on the Mrs rMB running W10 when nothing happens LOL

Touch screens are becoming more and more prolific all the time. Door locks, alarm systems, in-car entertainment and info systems. Steve Jobs hated the stylus saying things like “God gave us 10 styluses—let’s not invent another, and ridiculed Microsoft's vision of tablet machines with a stylus by saying "As soon as you have a stylus, you’re dead." Yet, after his passing, the iPad Pro arrived with support for a stylus.

But Steve Jobs wasn't wrong about fingers. They are the perfect stylus and I think Apple realizes this, which is why they have been implementing a compromise solution with the Touch Bar. But it is just that, a compromise with limited functionality.

I have become so used to some of the touchscreen gestures such as the swipe from right to left to open notifications. The swipe from left to right to switch tasks and view history. You want to minimize a window, use your finger to pull it downward, maximize an app by using your finger to drag it to the top, scroll, zoom, etc. with your finger. Swiping works great for powerpoint and slideshows as well and when I am done with this post, I can just tap the "Post Reply" button with my finger.

The reason I brought it up though is that Apple has a device where you can use pen(cil), finger and keyboard, but no mouse, no trackpad, and no full OS or you can buy a laptop with no pen(cil) support and no touch. But they have no single device that does it all or does touch/pen with a full OS.

Also, I don't recall the iPad Pro having a native "keyboard" where you can use the pen(cil) to hand write, even in a forum reply and have it automatically converted to text, but I am not sure on that.

Apple pencil also drives me a bit batty with its short battery life (though it is rechargeable), the fact it doesn't have an "eraser" on the end, causing you to take additional actions to erase and that I can't click said "eraser" to launch OneNote, etc.

 

[OdT22]

This has been good reading as I've been waiting for the new Surface Pro to arrive after ordering it last Friday. After what seems like an eternity, it finally arrived yesterday. And like normal... after several days of monotonous boredom, life got crazy as hell before I could find an opportunity open the package this evening. Sigh..

Anyhow, first impressions are good. Everything works! The updates were anticipated, but pretty simplified compared to my windows exit days (of 2012-ish). I had to think a few times, which iPad must have made me lazy about. But I welcomed it. At every turn, there's a menu! Offering choices! Holy bat out of hell! It feels like a Shawshank Redemption style escape. lol

I (she... I don't ebay) got the 12.9 iPad listed none too soon. I am not missing it. Our shared iMac is also pretty much hers now, though I will retain my account on it for now.. (only way I can print until I set it up)

Most welcome is the real keyboard that was included in the best buy purchase. Very nice, with zero adoption required. I don't feel too warm about the trackpad yet, but I am giving it a good college try before ordering a mouse.

Anyhow, a few hours in and I'm pretty impressed. It will take some time to relearn Windows but it is refreshingly simple and capable at the same time. I'm pretty sure this concludes my exit from iPad and Mac OS. No more limitations is quite nice.

Still digging the iPhone though. Hope they can keep up with emerging tech so I can stick around here. This forum is one of the few that has stayed compelling with regards to personal computing.

 

[SDColorado]

Most welcome is the real keyboard that was included in the best buy purchase. Very nice, with zero adoption required. I don't feel too warm about the trackpad yet, but I am giving it a good college try before ordering a mouse.

I wasn't too warm about the track pad at first either, it was small and a little oversensitive, though it is a glass track pad and has a good overall feel. I know I made some adjustments to tracking speed and sensitivity and like it a lot better now. I had intended to buy a mouse, but I guess I must have adapted because I never did make that purchase

Congrats on the new Surface Pro!

I have some Apple stuff that I need to unload, but I don't eBay either and the idea of trying to sell there makes me nervous. But prices from SellMyMac and Gazelle are a disappointment. Maybe eBay is something else I need to get used to

 

[teameurox]

i picked up a surface pro 3 and recently upgraded to a surface pro 4. It is said that I replaced my mac pro 2,1 with my multi monitor setup just because of the fluidity of coming and going. I rarely use my MacBook pro or the mac pro now, being able to have three external monitors and use the surface pro 4 screen almost a Wacom is pretty awesome. the only thing I desire from the surface lineup now is thunderbolt support for egpu's. I do miss imessages but I guess that's redudent as I have an apple watch as well. If Tim ever opens his mind to the 2 in 1 device concept I would jump back, but until then Windows hasn't let me down which was a hard pill to swallow

 

[SDColorado]

i picked up a surface pro 3 and recently upgraded to a surface pro 4. It is said that I replaced my mac pro 2,1 with my multi monitor setup just because of the fluidity of coming and going. I rarely use my MacBook pro or the mac pro now, being able to have three external monitors and use the surface pro 4 screen almost a Wacom is pretty awesome. the only thing I desire from the surface lineup now is thunderbolt support for egpu's. I do miss imessages but I guess that's redudent as I have an apple watch as well. If Tim ever opens his mind to the 2 in 1 device concept I would jump back, but until then Windows hasn't let me down which was a hard pill to swallow

The Thunderbolt support for eGPU would be nice. I never really thought about it for my Surface Pro, I suppose because I use it in a different role. But it is probably the main reason I won’t buy a Surface Book 2. If a Surface Book 3 comes out next year with Thunderbolt support though, I would be interested.