Surface Pro 3 announcement and prices

[Vegastouch]

Funny with these ideas of the type cover being a bad keyboard. I think it is a prejudiced idea, only because it is a cover which gives the IDEA of it being inferior. Truth is, it is a much better keyboard than the MacBook Air one. The keys are bigger and responds in a nicer way. I am a MacBook Air owner by the way.

I cant comment on the MBA keyboard but i went to BB today and check out a SP3. I think it is a great device. The keyboard worked very well and is much better than the slim keyboard that is used with the SP2.
The track pad is a bit small but i like how it works a lot like a MBP trackpad. Love that you can scroll up and down using two fingers. Much better than my Yoga trackpad.

Im not going to get one anytime soon but i am very interested in a SP3. One negative is there isnt a place to put the pen.

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Was just at the mall again today. The MS store was still empty.

And yet, I still want an SP3. Either i3 on my own dime or i7 if for work.


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MOD NOTE: report a post you want deleted and we'll take care if it.

B

I just made a double post is all and wanted to delete it. Why cant i delete it myself?

This is the only forum ive been to....and i go to many, ...that you cant delete your posts. Just curious why we cant do that because ive been told/warned actually a couple times by a mod to try and combine my posts so there isnt so many single ones and i have wanted to delete a few in the past and i cant.

 

[D2Sony]

2) They credited their profit earlier this year to a large increase in Surface 2 sales.

http://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/2324...ts-boom-thanks-to-surface-and-cloud-computing

According to their website and commercials Surface 2 is this version.

Also SEC 10-Q

Nine months ended March 31, 2014 compared with nine months ended March 31, 2013

D&C Hardware revenue increased $2.9 billion or 55%, due primarily to $1.5 billion or 38% higher Xbox Platform revenue as well as Surface revenue growth. Surface revenue was $1.8 billion for the nine months ended March 31, 2014. Xbox Platform revenue increased due to sales of Xbox One, which sells for a higher price than Xbox 360. We sold 10.6 million Xbox consoles during the first nine months of fiscal year 2014 compared with 8.9 million Xbox consoles during the first nine months of fiscal year 2013. Surface revenue increased due to a higher number of units sold.

D&C Hardware gross margin decreased $728 million or 45%, due to a $3.6 billion or 98% increase in cost of revenue, offset in part by higher revenue. Xbox Platform cost of revenue increased $2.0 billion, due mainly to higher volumes of consoles sold and higher costs associated with Xbox One. Surface cost of revenue was $2.1 billion for the nine months ended March 31, 2014, which increased due mainly to a higher number of units sold.

 

[burgman]

I'm typing on the Surface Pro 3 right now as we speak and the keyboard is pretty good.

Also, the complaints about not being able to use this thing on your lap are ridiculous. Sure it's POSSIBLE but it's not great, but with a tablet form factor, WHY WOULD YOU? If I needed to shoot off an email or do some reading and surfing, why would I use this on my lap rather than use the touch screen? No one ever complains about not being able to use an attached keyboard on their lap with an iPad because they don't.

If I wanted to do some serious work, then I would make an effort to find a flat surface or desk to use the keyboard on. You can easily find one at the airport, coffee shop, etc... If I was in a meeting or in an auditorium, press conference, or whatever, that's what the pen is for. Using laptops on your laps is so 2005.

2005?? look outside your little corner of the world. Maybe you should tell Microsoft to stop selling it as working great on your lap. You did watch the keynote right??

 

[Liquorpuki]

From a hardware perspective it blows away the other tablets except for the SP2, which has similar hardware but the SP3 is markedly thinner and lighter. It never gets old raising it up with the keyboard and wondering how they got it that freakin thin WITH a keyboard.

Thanks, that's good to hear. Only thing I'm worried about now is the GPU throttling since I wanna use it for gaming. What I've been hearing is the SP3 throttles harder, to the point the SP2 in high performance mode outperforms the SP3. Waiting for AnandTech to come out with some metrics

Still have my i7 SP3 on preorder though.

 

[spinedoc77]

Thanks, that's good to hear. Only thing I'm worried about now is the GPU throttling since I wanna use it for gaming. What I've been hearing is the SP3 throttles harder, to the point the SP2 in high performance mode outperforms the SP3. Waiting for AnandTech to come out with some metrics

Still have my i7 SP3 on preorder though.

Yep, anandtech just released his review. It looks like they are seriously throttling it. You are looking at roughly half the fps when the throttling kicks in, not great news. I have run some games on my SP3 and am very impressed with the performance, with that said it seems I'd be more impressed with the SP2 since it doesn't throttle down. From what I understand the move from two fans to a single fan in the SP3 warranted the more stringent throttling.

 

[Jibbajabba]

You brought up the Air?

I agree, but that wasn't what I responded to. As for the overpriced comment on the Pro, sales reflect the past pros as overpriced; the pro 3 (if prices are correct), will see similar disappointing sales (imho). Prices are without keyboards, correct?

Correct. Keyboards are $180 here in the UK !!

 

[diamond.g]

Thanks, that's good to hear. Only thing I'm worried about now is the GPU throttling since I wanna use it for gaming. What I've been hearing is the SP3 throttles harder, to the point the SP2 in high performance mode outperforms the SP3. Waiting for AnandTech to come out with some metrics

Still have my i7 SP3 on preorder though.

Yep, anandtech just released his review. It looks like they are seriously throttling it. You are looking at roughly half the fps when the throttling kicks in, not great news. I have run some games on my SP3 and am very impressed with the performance, with that said it seems I'd be more impressed with the SP2 since it doesn't throttle down. From what I understand the move from two fans to a single fan in the SP3 warranted the more stringent throttling.

Yeah it does get hot fast. I have noticed that Windows doesn't report the correct max turbo boost speed. Not that it matters, the system doesn't hit that speed often from what I can tell (on battery at least haven't run Prime95 on mains yet).

 

[Rogifan]

iFixit's teardown results in a broken screen and score of 1/10.

https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Microsoft+Surface+Pro+3+Teardown/26595

 

[MozMan68]

iFixit's teardown results in a broken screen and score of 1/10.

https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Microsoft+Surface+Pro+3+Teardown/26595

Clarification for those who have no idea what that means....1/10 for "repairability." It's a complicated, very thin piece of hardware that is not designed to be opened and/or modified.

Hah...good!

So if I have any problems with my SP3 while under warranty, I'll get a whole new unit.

 

[sracer]

Clarification for those who have no idea what that means....1/10 for "repairability." It's a complicated, very thin piece of hardware that is not designed to be opened and/or modified.

Hah...good!

So if I have any problems with my SP3 while under warranty, I'll get a whole new unit.

You'll get a replacement unit. That replacement unit may be new or it might be a customer return, etc. That is typical with most tablets anyways, they're not easy to do repairs on.

It is common sense, but anyone using a tablet should make sure that any data that's stored on it is regularly backed up somewhere.

 

[Liquorpuki]

Yep, anandtech just released his review. It looks like they are seriously throttling it. You are looking at roughly half the fps when the throttling kicks in, not great news. I have run some games on my SP3 and am very impressed with the performance, with that said it seems I'd be more impressed with the SP2 since it doesn't throttle down. From what I understand the move from two fans to a single fan in the SP3 warranted the more stringent throttling.

Yeah it does get hot fast. I have noticed that Windows doesn't report the correct max turbo boost speed. Not that it matters, the system doesn't hit that speed often from what I can tell (on battery at least haven't run Prime95 on mains yet).

Yeah I'm waiting for MS to say something official about the throttling. For gaming and anything that requires high continuous iGPU load, it's undoable because it looks like once the CPU hits 90 degrees, the CPU throttles aggressively until the temp goes down to 60 degrees. Then it repeats the cycling. For comparison the SP2 could run continuous load at 80+ degrees in High Performance Mode, which is why its outperforming the SP3 for continuous load use cases. SP3 has no High Performance Mode setting.

Only thing MS ever said about the issue was during a Reddit AMA - they were asked if the SP3's omission of High Performance Mode was a thermal issue and they said no, it was related to connected standby. They haven't said anything since then so I'm wondering if there might actually be a physical thermal headroom/design issue. Also waiting for somebody smarter than me with MS Complete to up the throttling floor from 60 to 80 degrees and see what happens.

I need something that equals or surpasses the continuous load performance of the SP2. If it's a downgrade, I'm gonna end up canceling my preorder.

 

[maflynn]

Yeah I'm waiting for MS to say something official about the throttling.

I'd be surprised if they did address it to be honest. I think they throttle it due to temps and the cramped space.

 

[Liquorpuki]

I'd be surprised if they did address it to be honest. I think they throttle it due to temps and the cramped space.

The previous SP's throttled depending on the power setting. Balanced Mode throttled aggressively to keep the device cool. High Performance Mode kept everything running above 80 degrees which is fine if it's docked or sitting on a desk. With the SP3 there's only a balanced mode but I'm hoping there's enough thermal headroom to add the other mode back in.

It's funny. The SP3 won over a lot more people than the SP2 did. But for those of us who had an SP2 and milked its power, the continuous load downgrade is a dealbreaker. If you're playing a game for example, the SP3 runs it at half the framerate as the SP2.

 

[diamond.g]

Yeah I'm waiting for MS to say something official about the throttling. For gaming and anything that requires high continuous iGPU load, it's undoable because it looks like once the CPU hits 90 degrees, the CPU throttles aggressively until the temp goes down to 60 degrees. Then it repeats the cycling. For comparison the SP2 could run continuous load at 80+ degrees in High Performance Mode, which is why its outperforming the SP3 for continuous load use cases. SP3 has no High Performance Mode setting.

Only thing MS ever said about the issue was during a Reddit AMA - they were asked if the SP3's omission of High Performance Mode was a thermal issue and they said no, it was related to connected standby. They haven't said anything since then so I'm wondering if there might actually be a physical thermal headroom/design issue. Also waiting for somebody smarter than me with MS Complete to up the throttling floor from 60 to 80 degrees and see what happens.

I need something that equals or surpasses the continuous load performance of the SP2. If it's a downgrade, I'm gonna end up canceling my preorder.

The previous SP's throttled depending on the power setting. Balanced Mode throttled aggressively to keep the device cool. High Performance Mode kept everything running above 80 degrees which is fine if it's docked or sitting on a desk. With the SP3 there's only a balanced mode but I'm hoping there's enough thermal headroom to add the other mode back in.

It's funny. The SP3 won over a lot more people than the SP2 did. But for those of us who had an SP2 and milked its power, the continuous load downgrade is a dealbreaker. If you're playing a game for example, the SP3 runs it at half the framerate as the SP2.

If I were you I would wait. I came from a clover trail Windows 8 tablet that had connected standby, so that is why I got one. I like the instant on (like an iPad) nature of the device. You can get the high performance profile back by installing Hyper V (just having it installed disabled connected standby). But from what I read it doesn't improve the thermal issue.

 

[rowspaxe]

I have to say one of the worst parts of the SP3 in my mind is the how they handle the pen storage. I'm sure space is soo tight they couldn't have fit an internal compartment for the pen, but maybe in the back a cut out to snap it in.

Really? I totally dont get this. I have a sp1 and sony vaio duo. Pen goes in the computer bag pen holder. Not a problem.

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WHY does a tablet have to primarily only be used with touch? Why can't you use it as a laptop? Or with a dock and a larger monitor? Or with a kickstand, keyboard and mouse? These are all questions Microsoft has asked, questions which Apple has not, or more specifically realized there was more money in selling consumers 2 devices. I know we are arguing semantics here, no disrespect intended as it's a great discussion. But I think our definitions of what a tablet should do differ greatly.

Time for your re-education appointment at the genius bar. A tablet is now and forever whatever android and apple have ginned up in the first four years of the tablet era.

“Orthodoxy means not thinking--not needing to think. Orthodoxy is unconsciousness.”
― George Orwell, 1984

 

[spinedoc77]

Really? I totally dont get this. I have a sp1 and sony vaio duo. Pen goes in the computer bag pen holder. Not a problem.

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Time for your re-education appointment at the genius bar. A tablet is now and forever whatever android and apple have ginned up in the first four years of the tablet era.

“Orthodoxy means not thinking--not needing to think. Orthodoxy is unconsciousness.”
― George Orwell, 1984

Sorry, I don't frequent the genius bar lol, I've actually never used it. There are people in the world who see the current paradigm and think it will last forever, and there are people who understand cycles and especially how things can change overnight in the tech world. Was Apple always on top? Was google always so widespread?

I'm not saying Microsoft is going to pull off a last minute deus ex machina, on the contrary I think their poor marketing and hardware decisions may have doomed them. But I'm not so close minded to actually think today's paradigm will be eternal.

PS: Poor Orwell, to sacrifice thinking for conformity.
PPS: Having no pen silo sucks.

 

[MozMan68]

I think their poor marketing and hardware decisions may have doomed them.

I think that's a little premature....considering the HUGE ecosystem they have worldwide with incredibly successful products like Office and Windows and their obvious recent steps in the right direction (even if years late), show that there is hope with the proper management direction.

They are not another RIM...

 

[spinedoc77]

I think that's a little premature....considering the HUGE ecosystem they have worldwide with incredibly successful products like Office and Windows and their obvious recent steps in the right direction (even if years late), show that there is hope with the proper management direction.

They are not another RIM...

Well, it's definitely an exaggeration for dramatic effect. No MS isn't doomed, they have the software side, the cloud side, enterprise, etc etc. But I think in the tablet space they could have jumped ahead, but instead dug themselves a medium sized hole they now need to climb out of.

 

[MozMan68]

Well, it's definitely an exaggeration for dramatic effect. No MS isn't doomed, they have the software side, the cloud side, enterprise, etc etc. But I think in the tablet space they could have jumped ahead, but instead dug themselves a medium sized hole they now need to climb out of.

Possibly...being in product marketing, my solution would to really focus on the enterprise side with Surface, even if that means making it a hair bigger with more peripheral support.

The reason I bought my own (with my company reimbursing me over the next couple of years) is so I can replace my work laptop during meetings, when travelling, when working from home yet still have the basic tablet experiences (web surfing, light gaming, etc.). The ability to use a pen for notes and sketches (I do this A LOT!) is huge for many corporate customers as well as students not to mention medical and finance industries where written signatures are still required fairly often.

At the same time, I also do not disagree with their approach from a retail consumer standpoint as I think the device works for your average Joe as well, but certainly the focus should have been on their strengths with their corporate customers....don't fight Apple, play to the strengths you already have. It's not easy or certainly not the path of least resistance, but the payout in the end by building upon your exisiting strengths as well as the addition of recent (and still developing) hardware and software solutions will help maintain their foothold while giving them the opportunity to expand into areas that Apple and Google currently "own."

 

[spinedoc77]

Possibly...being in product marketing, my solution would to really focus on the enterprise side with Surface, even if that means making it a hair bigger with more peripheral support.

The reason I bought my own (with my company reimbursing me over the next couple of years) is so I can replace my work laptop during meetings, when travelling, when working from home yet still have the basic tablet experiences (web surfing, light gaming, etc.). The ability to use a pen for notes and sketches (I do this A LOT!) is huge for many corporate customers as well as students not to mention medical and finance industries where written signatures are still required fairly often.

At the same time, I also do not disagree with their approach from a retail consumer standpoint as I think the device works for your average Joe as well, but certainly the focus should have been on their strengths with their corporate customers....don't fight Apple, play to the strengths you already have. It's not easy or certainly not the path of least resistance, but the payout in the end by building upon your exisiting strengths as well as the addition of recent (and still developing) hardware and software solutions will help maintain their foothold while giving them the opportunity to expand into areas that Apple and Google currently "own."

I agree for the most part. Microsoft already has a large hurdle in terms of just how people perceive them. Many times a persons mind is already made up, this is evident in many of the reviews where some of the SP3 criticisms just don't make much sense. The SP3 is a a great salvo to Apple's macbook air, but it was a mistake to not include the keyboard, even if it meant keeping the price at $899.

The other mistake was not having a well thought out answer to the ipad. Having something go head to head with the ipad would have freed the SP3 from being compared to it, which it shouldn't be. The problem is that Microsoft's ipad competitor was their RT tablets, which turned out to be utter failures and for reasons that should have been obvious before they released it.

Of course we are talking about 2 different leaderships and much internal struggle and now the new CEO is picking up the pieces. This is evident in the recent press on Windows 9 and how it will differentiate hardware which should have the desktop on it, and hardware which would benefit from a more front and center handling of the modern interface. But once again, this is still climbing out of the hole instead of starting at level ground.

 

[rowspaxe]

Sorry, I don't frequent the genius bar lol, I've actually never used it. There are people in the world who see the current paradigm and think it will last forever, and there are people who understand cycles and especially how things can change overnight in the tech world. Was Apple always on top? Was google always so widespread?

I'm not saying Microsoft is going to pull off a last minute deus ex machina, on the contrary I think their poor marketing and hardware decisions may have doomed them. But I'm not so close minded to actually think today's paradigm will be eternal.

PS: Poor Orwell, to sacrifice thinking for conformity.
PPS: Having no pen silo sucks.

On the tablet side, you really need an ecosystem to compete. I think at one point MS saw xbox as a media/ ecosystem solution--but they never committed and the branding is confusing anyway. (a common microsoft issue) So now there are 3 players. Apple could bail MS out a bit by making a metro itunes app, and it has occurred to me that we might yet see this yet as a quid pro quo for the ipad office implementation

 

[spinedoc77]

my comments were intended to be ironic

Yeah I figured that after rereading them, lol.

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On the tablet side, you really need an ecosystem to compete. I think at one point MS saw xbox as a media/ ecosystem solution--but they never committed and the branding is confusing anyway. (a common microsoft issue) So now there are 3 players. Apple could bail MS out a bit by making a metro itunes app, and it has occurred to me that we might yet see this a quid pro quo for the ipad office implementation

I agree, that's why their plan to out-ipad the ipad failed with RT. MS took away their biggest strength, millions of legacy programs.

 

[Liquorpuki]

If I were you I would wait. I came from a clover trail Windows 8 tablet that had connected standby, so that is why I got one. I like the instant on (like an iPad) nature of the device. You can get the high performance profile back by installing Hyper V (just having it installed disabled connected standby). But from what I read it doesn't improve the thermal issue.

Yeah, this is what I'm leaning toward. Waiting for i7 news but if there's nothing or no difference, I'll wait for Broadwell

Buying a house this year too and that SP3 money = a nicer fridge

 

[rowspaxe]

Yeah, this is what I'm leaning toward. Waiting for i7 news but if there's nothing or no difference, I'll wait for Broadwell

Buying a house this year too and that SP3 money = a nicer fridge

I think the broadwell will add just some extra battery life--but the next gen Intel graphics could be a leap. I am a little concerned about the throttling issue

 

[wjc1974]

cRazy Microsoft Marketing

I cannot believe MS is trying to outdo the iPad with this piece of marketing.

its pretty cool, Thats for sure. I doubt Apple would EVER try something like this....

http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2014/08/m...ce-pro-3-out-of-cardboard-for-aussie-schools/