Surface Pro 3 announcement and prices

[sracer]

I don't think anyone would qualify the Surface Pro line as any kind of failure, the Surface RT on the other hand...

My biggest issue with the SP3 is it really isn't any big gain over my SP2 in compute power or battery life; it's much a lateral move. It's the same i5 4300u and I believe the same 42 watt-hour battery. Not sure I'm willing to make any kind of trade up until there's a Broadwell. And by that time of course others will also be improving their line like Asus and Lenovo. But I do like my SP2, a lot.

...and i DIDN'T qualify the Surface Pro line as any kind of failure. I DID specify "Surface RT".

The SP2 was a substantial upgrade over the SP1. I get the feeling that the SP3 was rushed-to-market to preempt what Apple will be announcing in the Fall.

 

[eelpout]

...and i DIDN'T qualify the Surface Pro line as any kind of failure. I DID specify "Surface RT".

eh, that's on me, my post wasn't clear and I was referring to the "dart thrower." no harm meant.

 

[sracer]

eh, that's on me, my post wasn't clear and I was referring to the "dart thrower." no harm meant.

LOL, no worries.

As an SP2 owner, how important are the changes in the SP3 to you, particularly the change in aspect ratio? And what about the need to repurchase a TypeCover because of the change in aspect ratio. What affect if any does the incompatibility between the SP2 and SP3 accessories have on your decision to upgrade or not?

 

[Vegastouch]

There is supposed to be an update today for and Surface Pro 2 & the RT today that improves battery life and some other things. Not sure if it includes the RT or not.

http://www.techradar.com/news/mobile-computing/tablets/surface-2-and-surface-pro-2-update-brings-improved-charging-simpler-tethering-1252945

 

[Liquorpuki]

LOL, no worries.

As an SP2 owner, how important are the changes in the SP3 to you, particularly the change in aspect ratio? And what about the need to repurchase a TypeCover because of the change in aspect ratio. What affect if any does the incompatibility between the SP2 and SP3 accessories have on your decision to upgrade or not?

Not the guy you were asking, but I'll give my opinion.

At first I wasn't gonna upgrade because these devices are expensive, Broadwell is coming, and so far it's been almost biannual release cycles. But the Surface Pro has been my daily driver since Feb 2013, I don't use any other computer and I haven't bought a tablet since the original iPad.

For an SP2 user, it's basically incremental upgrades but a couple of them will up usability a lot for certain use cases.

Main ones for me are the resolution, which I originally thought was a dumb move because W8 snap looks better in landscape. But then I thought about how I use programs like Excel a lot. The SP2's widescreen resolution means the ribbon takes up a big chunk of the screen. I end up having to hide the ribbon and the taskbar in order to get max screen real estate to display data and it still ends up feeling cramped. If you're using OneNote with a stylus, the resolution also means it feels more like you're writing on a legal pad, instead of a strip of paper.

Another one is the N-Trig digitizer instead of Wacom. This blog has a good comparison but the basic gist is it's give and take for artists. But I use OneNote a lot and the Wacom has parallax and accuracy issues, especially as you get to the corners, even after doing stuff like 500 point stylus calibrations. The N-Trig digitizer doesn't need calibration and supposedly makes the stylus feel like it bleeds ink from the tip. I can appreciate that.

Another one is the i7 with HD5000 and double the GPU cores of the SP2. I use the SP2 for some gaming so a 10-15% bump would be worth it. Still waiting for benchmarks though because I don't know if the slimmer form factor would cause throttling to kick in faster. If it did, it would be a waste.

And it's annoying that most accessories have to be bought again. I have the SP2 dock, a power cover, and an extra brick so that's another $400 that has to be spent on accessories. It's a lot of $$$ but I'm probably the archetypal user for an SP so I'm all in.

 

[sracer]

Not the guy you were asking, but I'll give my opinion.

At first I wasn't gonna upgrade because these devices are expensive, Broadwell is coming, and so far it's been almost biannual release cycles. But the Surface Pro has been my daily driver since Feb 2013, I don't use any other computer and I haven't bought a tablet since the original iPad.

For an SP2 user, it's basically incremental upgrades but a couple of them will up usability a lot for certain use cases.

Main ones for me are the resolution, which I originally thought was a dumb move because W8 snap looks better in landscape. But then I thought about how I use programs like Excel a lot. The SP2's widescreen resolution means the ribbon takes up a big chunk of the screen. I end up having to hide the ribbon and the taskbar in order to get max screen real estate to display data and it still ends up feeling cramped. If you're using OneNote with a stylus, the resolution also means it feels more like you're writing on a legal pad, instead of a strip of paper.

Another one is the N-Trig digitizer instead of Wacom. This blog has a good comparison but the basic gist is it's give and take for artists. But I use OneNote a lot and the Wacom has parallax and accuracy issues, especially as you get to the corners, even after doing stuff like 500 point stylus calibrations. The N-Trig digitizer doesn't need calibration and supposedly makes the stylus feel like it bleeds ink from the tip. I can appreciate that.

Another one is the i7 with HD5000 and double the GPU cores of the SP2. I use the SP2 for some gaming so a 10-15% bump would be worth it. Still waiting for benchmarks though because I don't know if the slimmer form factor would cause throttling to kick in faster. If it did, it would be a waste.

And it's annoying that most accessories have to be bought again. I have the SP2 dock, a power cover, and an extra brick so that's another $400 that has to be spent on accessories. It's a lot of $$$ but I'm probably the archetypal user for an SP so I'm all in.

All good points. I just can't shake the feeling that Microsoft is going to have an upgrade to the SP3 that will address some of the shortcomings. Little things like a glued-on loop to hold the pen painfully looks like a last-minute fix that will have a more elegant/permanent solution soon. And of course Broadwell.

 

[spinedoc77]

All good points. I just can't shake the feeling that Microsoft is going to have an upgrade to the SP3 that will address some of the shortcomings. Little things like a glued-on loop to hold the pen painfully looks like a last-minute fix that will have a more elegant/permanent solution soon. And of course Broadwell.

I was hoping for a pen silo, I agree the little glued on loop is terrible. Broadwell will be nice when it comes around, I have a feeling it won't be until next year though, MS seems to upgrade these every 8 months.

 

[Renzatic]

Little things like a glued-on loop to hold the pen painfully looks like a last-minute fix that will have a more elegant/permanent solution soon.

If you're looking for a pen well, you're probably gonna be waiting for awhile. MS obviously wanted to release a full sized stylus, and the SP3 is now too thin to fit something that big inside it (olol dirty).

What they should've done was build a more powerful magnet into the Pro and the pen, so you can stick the stylus on the tablet itself when you're not using it. Kinda like what Adonit did with the Jot Pro. That thing sticks so securely onto my iPad, I don't have to worry about it rolling off anywhere.

And of course Broadwell.

Yeah, that's the other reason why I'm probably gonna get an MBP over the SP3. I won't deny that it's one of the best built devices I've seen in a long while. Perfect screen size, nice weight, really thin. It's got a lot going for it.

But I can't help but feel it's an interim update between the SP2, and the future Broadwell Surface. It's here to show off their skills, and where they're headed with the platform, but it's still not quite the definitive version. Imagine a Surface just as powerful, but about as thin and light as the iPad 2/3/4. Broadwell can allow MS to do that.

...and it will be awesome.

 

[B...]

If you're looking for a pen well, you're probably gonna be waiting for awhile. MS obviously wanted to release a full sized stylus, and the SP3 is now too thin to fit something that big inside it (olol dirty).

What they should've done was build a more powerful magnet into the Pro and the pen, so you can stick the stylus on the tablet itself when you're not using it. Kinda like what Adonit did with the Jot Pro. That thing sticks so securely onto my iPad, I don't have to worry about it rolling off anywhere.



Yeah, that's the other reason why I'm probably gonna get an MBP over the SP3. I won't deny that it's one of the best built devices I've seen in a long while. Perfect screen size, nice weight, really thin. It's got a lot going for it.

But I can't help but feel it's an interim update between the SP2, and the future Broadwell Surface. It's here to show off their skills, and where they're headed with the platform, but it's still not quite the definitive version. Imagine a Surface just as powerful, but about as thin and light as the iPad 2/3/4. Broadwell can allow MS to do that.

...and it will be awesome.

It's already thinner than the iPad 3.

http://support.apple.com/kb/sp647
http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en-us/products/surface-pro-3

 

[Renzatic]

Damn Apple and their cheating tapered edges. I thought it was a bit thicker.

It still wouldn't hurt if they shaved a little more weight off it, though. If they can get it down to 1.5 pounds, I doubt anyone will complain about how hefty it is, even if the Air is a full half pound lighter in comparison.

 

[B...]

Damn Apple and their cheating tapered edges. I thought it was a bit thicker.

It still wouldn't hurt if they shaved a little more weight off it, though. If they can get it down to 1.5 pounds, I doubt anyone will complain about how hefty it is, even if the Air is a full half pound lighter in comparison.

I understand that kind of thinking, but I don't want to wait 8 months+ for a decrease of .24 lbs. I can handle the current Surface's weight, and it's really nothing to complain about now.

 

[Technarchy]

Good to finally play with it today at the Microsoft shop.

Impressions:
Cool
Responsive
Way lighter than you would expect
Aspect ratio works well
More lap friendly than any previous iteration
Phenomenal display

I think I might trade in old iPhone 5 and use a discount to pony up for a model.

 

[Renzatic]

I understand that kind of thinking, but I don't want to wait 8 months+ for a decrease of .24 lbs. I can handle the current Surface's weight, and it's really nothing to complain about now.

It's not terrible by any stretch of the word. But like everything to do with MS and the Surface line recently, it's almost perfect, and you can easily see the potential of everything they're doing, but it's not quite optimal just yet. I'm willing to wait for them to reach that sweet spot where everything comes together in harmony before I rush out and buy one. The Pro line has been enough of a success for MS that I don't have to worry about them mothballing the entire platform before it reaches its true potential, so waiting it out a bit longer won't be a problem.

Yeah, I'm probably being a little too hard on it, but for the $1500 I'll be spending for the version I think will best fit my needs, I feel like being a little picky. For the moment anyway, I think the $1700+ I'll drop on a refurbed rMBP with no caveats is a little more attractive than the $1500 on the SP3 that comes with some caveats.

 

[B...]

It's not terrible by any stretch of the word. But like everything to do with MS and the Surface line recently, it's almost perfect, and you can easily see the potential of everything they're doing, but it's not quite optimal just yet. I'm willing to wait for them to reach that sweet spot where everything comes together in harmony before I rush out and buy one. The Pro line has been enough of a success for MS that I don't have to worry about them mothballing the entire platform before it reaches its true potential, so waiting it out a bit longer won't be a problem.

Yeah, I'm probably being a little too hard on it, but for the $1500 I'll be spending for the version I think will best fit my needs, I feel like being a little picky. For the moment anyway, I think the $1700+ I'll drop on a refurbed rMBP with no caveats is a little more attractive than the $1500 on the SP3 that comes with some caveats.

I'm not trying to sell you on the Surface because I'm not sold on it myself, but I see the caveat of the rMBP as it being just a laptop: it has no pen, touchscreen, etc, whereas the Surface has all of them. The tradeoff is it doesn't work so well on the lap.

 

[Technarchy]

I'm not trying to sell you on the Surface because I'm not sold on it myself, but I see the caveat of the rMBP as it being just a laptop: it has no pen, touchscreen, etc, whereas the Surface has all of them. The tradeoff is it doesn't work so well on the lap.

By that standard the SP3 is better on the lap than the Macbook is at being a tablet.

I guess it just depends on what one is looking for, but I have doubt whatsoever that if SP3 was an Apple product it would be praised and heralded as the next big thing.

If you covered the logos and handed a person a MBA and SP3 I have no doubt most would prefer the SP3.

 

[Renzatic]

I'm not trying to sell you on the Surface because I'm not sold on it myself, but I see the caveat of the rMBP as it being just a laptop: it has no pen, touchscreen, etc, whereas the Surface has all of them. The tradeoff is it doesn't work so well on the lap.

Yeah, I know. We're all tossing around the pros and cons of the machine, and I'm being extra critical about it, because that's what I do before I spend a big chunk 'o change. I pick a bunch of nits, and will probably change my mind at least 4 times before I make my final decision.

See, the touchscreen and pen are the biggest selling points for me. I've always been the biggest cheerleader for advocating tablets as being able to do more than light work/consumption devices. And now MS now is releasing a tablet that comes dangerously close to vindicating my opinion.

But there are a number of things that are keeping me from going "fralwlwlrlwlarrrlr", then throwing my credit card at the nearest MS store.

For one, MS' ecosystem (an abused word if there ever was one), both on the desktop and Metro, isn't as strong and streamlined as Apple's well integrated laptop experience yet. This is doubly true for their high PPI setup, where some apps work fine, and some flake out and act stupid if you don't have them set to 100% scaling.

For two, I'm getting to the point where I need a little more processing heft to do what I want to do. The SP3 is an Ultrabook class machine, which will work alright for the most part, but I don't know if I'm willing to settle for alright with a $1500 price tag. While the dual core ULV i7 in the Pro 3 might work decently enough, I know the beefier quad core in the rMBP will make for a helluva lot smoother experience overall.

Truthfully, I'd like to have them both. Even though they're separate platforms, they both have perks that complement each other that make it easy to justify having them sit side by side. But while I can afford $1500 or ~$1700, I'm not quite ready to drop $3200 upgrading my whole computer experience. I'll have to choose between one or the other, and right now the rMBP is looking to give me the better bang for the buck. I'm thinking that getting it now, and watching the Surface line mature over the next couple of years would be the better option.

...and the reason why I'm here wasting everyone's time second guessing the SP3 in an SP3 thread is because I am really interested in it, and I want to hear some hands on reviews before I pull the trigger.

 

[B...]

By that standard the SP3 is better on the lap than the Macbook is at being a tablet.

I guess it just depends on what one is looking for, but I have doubt whatsoever that if SP3 was an Apple product it would be praised and heralded as the next big thing.

If you covered the logos and handed a person a MBA and SP3 I have no doubt most would prefer the SP3.

Does anyone not think the SP3 is better on the lap than the Macbook is at being a tablet? The SP3 can be used on the lap, but the MBA cannot be used as a tablet.

 

[sracer]

Does anyone not think the SP3 is better on the lap than the Macbook is at being a tablet? The SP3 can be used on the lap, but the MBA cannot be used as a tablet.

The SP3 itself can barely be used as a tablet. I think that the SP3 is a better ultrabook than it is tablet.

 

[maflynn]

I was hoping for a pen silo, I agree the little glued on loop is terrible. Broadwell will be nice when it comes around, I have a feeling it won't be until next year though, MS seems to upgrade these every 8 months.

I have to say one of the worst parts of the SP3 in my mind is the how they handle the pen storage. I'm sure space is soo tight they couldn't have fit an internal compartment for the pen, but maybe in the back a cut out to snap it in. Either way on the cover is not too bright.

I understand that kind of thinking, but I don't want to wait 8 months+ for a decrease of .24 lbs. I can handle the current Surface's weight, and it's really nothing to complain about now.

Agreed, though I think the performance Broadwell will bring will be good, along with the GPU and battery improvements. With that said my personal needs are such that the current chipsets will be more then enough for me - I don't play games, and I'll only use LightRoom and Photoshop (either elements or the full version). Even then, just for touch up stuff.

Does anyone not think the SP3 is better on the lap than the Macbook is at being a tablet? The SP3 can be used on the lap, but the MBA cannot be used as a tablet.

This is the debate I'm doing internally myself. I was using my rMBP on lap yesterday and my legs were getting very warm. The keyboard and track pad were nice. I wonder how the SP3 will feel like on my lap with the kick stand. Would it be better as a "tablet" without the keyboard, or with the keyboard.

I may make another trip to my microsoft store and try it out that way to see how I feel.

 

[spinedoc77]

I have to say one of the worst parts of the SP3 in my mind is the how they handle the pen storage. I'm sure space is soo tight they couldn't have fit an internal compartment for the pen, but maybe in the back a cut out to snap it in. Either way on the cover is not too bright.

They really should have considered a small stylus like the one on the thinkpad tablet 2 and silo. Battery-less n-trig does exist, although it has not been released yet. This way you could always have a stylus with you, but if you wanted to purchase the bigger one you have that option. Sadly companies don't think this way, and even Lenovo won't have a pen silo on it's thinkpad tablet 10. This is one of the reasons I was hoping Samsung would come back to windows tablets, they are probably the only OEM who understands how nice a pen silo is.

 

[B...]

I have to say one of the worst parts of the SP3 in my mind is the how they handle the pen storage. I'm sure space is soo tight they couldn't have fit an internal compartment for the pen, but maybe in the back a cut out to snap it in. Either way on the cover is not too bright.



Agreed, though I think the performance Broadwell will bring will be good, along with the GPU and battery improvements. With that said my personal needs are such that the current chipsets will be more then enough for me - I don't play games, and I'll only use LightRoom and Photoshop (either elements or the full version). Even then, just for touch up stuff.



This is the debate I'm doing internally myself. I was using my rMBP on lap yesterday and my legs were getting very warm. The keyboard and track pad were nice. I wonder how the SP3 will feel like on my lap with the kick stand. Would it be better as a "tablet" without the keyboard, or with the keyboard.

I may make another trip to my microsoft store and try it out that way to see how I feel.

I've gone twice now, and I've used it on my lap both times, with an without the keyboard (one in "canvas mode" and the other as a regular laptop). The canvas mode didn't work so well on the lap because the on-screen keyboard is not great, and I made a lot of mistakes. However, the Surface was actually pretty comfortable using it as a regular laptop. The trackpad was serviceable and the keys weren't too mush when I used the extra magnetic strip on the Type Cover. The kickstand didn't cut into my legs as much as I had thought it would, and of course I never felt any heat coming from it.

 

[///M5]

Well, after roughly 8 years of using different Mac's. I've just placed an order for the i5/256GB/8GB model. This is what I've been waiting for ever since the Surface was announced.

Can't wait to get it in a few days!

 

[Cnasty]

I know this is an SP3 thread but some others may be deciding between the SP3 and MacBookAir like I am and wanted to share.

Thats a hell of a deal and may sway me go with the Mac over the SP3. I know there is a lot of debate in comparing the 2 but figured I would share for the masses since its such a great deal.

Best Buy is offering a $100 discount on all of the newest 2014 MacBook Air models, bringing the entry-level 11-inch model down to $799.

Best Buy is also offering a second deal for students with a valid .EDU email address that gives $150 off any Mac, and these two deals can be combined, cutting prices to the absolute lowest we've seen.

- 11.6" MacBook Air, 4GB, 128GB SSD: $899 -> $799 -> $649
- 11.6" MacBook Air, 4GB, 256GB SSD: $1099 -> $999 -> $849
- 13.3" MacBook Air, 4GB, 128GB SSD: $999 -> $899 -> $749
- 13.3" MacBook Air, 4GB, 256GB SSD: $1199 -> $1099 -> $949

Apple's MacBook Air was last updated in April, and is considered safe to buy in our Buyer's Guide. This is a significant discount on recently released MacBook Air computers, and one of the best deals we've seen. The combined deal will last until June 21, 2014, while the $150 off deal for students lasts until July 12, 2014.

Best Buy is also offering students $50 off the iPad Air and the Retina iPad mini.

MacRumors is an affiliate partner of Best Buy.

 

[maflynn]

I've gone twice now, and I've used it on my lap both times

Me too
I was at mall for Father's day lunch (they had a rainforest cafe) and low and behold a Microsoft store. I was able to play with it a little more. I can't say that its helped my decision process.

I spend more time with it on my laptop and typing stuff suing the type cover. I think its ok, though not as good as a laptop keyboard. The trackpad is serviceable as you mentioned and I agree the onscreen virtual keyabord is not so great.

I played with it in tablet mode as well - I'm not entirely sure about that aspect. Perhaps as I work on some notes, or spreadsheets.

Well, after roughly 8 years of using different Mac's. I've just placed an order for the i5/256GB/8GB model. This is what I've been waiting for ever since the Surface was announced.
Can't wait to get it in a few days!

Congrats.

As it stands, I cancelled my pre-order, though I'm not done mulling over my purchase. I amy end up shooting over to the MS store on the 20th just to buy it, but at least now I have more time instead of seeing my credit card getting hit with a charge

 

[diamond.g]

I picked mine up this morning. No line. They gave me a tshirt and a mug.