Surface Pro 3 First Impressions

[sguyx]

Sounds like I definitely going to wait few months before buying and see what happens... :-s I havent had problems with win8.1, so it must be Surface-related hw/drivers issue. For the price you pay (1500e/2100$) you really shouldn't face that kind of behaviour.

 

[Cnasty]

So glad I went with the MBA over the sp3 as I am blown away at the MBA form factor and speed of the device.

I was very close to getting an sp3 but couldn't pass up the best buy sale on the MBA.

 

[diamond.g]

The WiFi issue doesn't have a single solution. Some find that they can simply turn off wifi and turn it back on again to get it to work. Others have to reboot.

It is problems like these that have plagued the Surface line (both Pro and non-Pro) from day-1 of generation 1. Microsoft has once-a-month updates and if a problem you are experiencing isn't fixed with that update, you'll need to wait another month for another opportunity to see if it is fixed. Some things still aren't fixed.

In the 10 months of Surface ownership, I've not had a period of more than 2 weeks without experiencing an issue that required a workaround or official fix. Just when I'd have something stable, the monthly update (which you can't opt out of btw) came around and either broke something else, or undid what I had done.

I loved the hardware, but the stability of the OS/drivers doesn't do it justice.

I have had the Network adapter stack disappear, where the system thinks you no longer have any network adapter. Even in that situation you don't need to reboot, just have Windows scan for hardware changes (yay plug and play) and it will find that adapter and connect to your network. I have looked at the event log and it appears there is a hardware error (driver) from connected standby that causes Windows to drop the hardware from the system.


The problem Microsoft has is they don't tailor Windows to their hardware like Apple does. And they have to rely on vendors making non-crappy hardware drivers.

 

[sracer]

The problem Microsoft has is they don't tailor Windows to their hardware like Apple does. And they have to rely on vendors making non-crappy hardware drivers.

In general, you are correct. However when it comes to the Surface that excuse is not valid.
Microsoft does NOT have to rely on vendors for drivers for the components that make up the hardware that Microsoft is producing. They have total control over the components that are included in the Surface. They hand picked them. It is Microsoft's responsibility to either write the drivers themselves or put drivers through rigorous quality assurance.

But it appears that Microsoft simply takes the components and drivers using the same approach as every other Windows computer manufacturer and release something that is not any more trouble-free than the rest. If THAT is what constitutes a "premium" Windows device then it shows just how low the bar is.

 

[spinedoc77]

You can't? Maybe because:

- a kickstand reduces the amount of internal space available for components. The kickstand must be flush with the shell of the tablet when closed and must have another layer to cover the components when the kickstand is opened.

- a kickstand favors only one orientation making it useful for only landscape or portrait.

- a kickstand prevents using protective cases.

- a kickstand is a physical/moving component that is subject to mechanical wear far quicker than any electronic wear of the internal components.

If you spend a few moments I'm confident that you can double this list.

Yeah that's why MS fit a core processor AND a kickstand in a tablet that is only slightly thicker than an ipad air (.07" difference, that's nuts IMO).

Landscape only, so what? I don't disagree that a portrait mode kickstand would be nice, but other tablets don't even have ANY option for a kickstand. What solutions have you seen in terms of even cases which have portrait solutions?

Protective cases, it's a good point for some, but I hate protective cases personally. I always put on a skin for the back of the tablet and just a cover and I'm all set, keeps my tablet nice and thin the way it was meant to be.

Kickstand wear, the laws of physics say you are right. But in terms of longevity does it matter? There aren't any reports of the SP2 or SP1 kickstand failing after a couple of years of them being out, for example. Maybe 10 years down the road? Or then again maybe not, we can revisit in 8 years.

The need to prop up a tablet is pretty universal. I challenge anyone to honestly say they NEVER have a need to prop up their tablet. Non stock solutions are pretty poor overall, bulky cases, foldback covers which lose rigidity over time and are not very stable to begin with, etc etc.

 

[sracer]

Yeah that's why MS fit a core processor AND a kickstand in a tablet that is only slightly thicker than an ipad air (.07" difference, that's nuts IMO).

Landscape only, so what? I don't disagree that a portrait mode kickstand would be nice, but other tablets don't even have ANY option for a kickstand. What solutions have you seen in terms of even cases which have portrait solutions?

Protective cases, it's a good point for some, but I hate protective cases personally. I always put on a skin for the back of the tablet and just a cover and I'm all set, keeps my tablet nice and thin the way it was meant to be.

Kickstand wear, the laws of physics say you are right. But in terms of longevity does it matter? There aren't any reports of the SP2 or SP1 kickstand failing after a couple of years of them being out, for example. Maybe 10 years down the road? Or then again maybe not, we can revisit in 8 years.

The need to prop up a tablet is pretty universal. I challenge anyone to honestly say they NEVER have a need to prop up their tablet. Non stock solutions are pretty poor overall, bulky cases, foldback covers which lose rigidity over time and are not very stable to begin with, etc etc.

Ok so you don't agree but those are some reasons that could explain why no other tablet makers include a kickstand. If a kickstand were such a no brainer to include then others would do it. Since they haven't (and lack of one hasn't driven hoards to the Surface line because of it) then it is safe to say that it isn't a high priority. (If any) for an overwhelming majority of tablet consumers.

 

[Mcdevidr]

I returned my i5 model to get the cheaper i3 model. I'm just using it for notes in class. I did find using the tablet at a table I thought it would be amazing if there where a way to prop it up in portrait mode, any of you found any solution for that?

 

[spinedoc77]

Ok so you don't agree but those are some reasons that could explain why no other tablet makers include a kickstand. If a kickstand were such a no brainer to include then others would do it. Since they haven't (and lack of one hasn't driven hoards to the Surface line because of it) then it is safe to say that it isn't a high priority. (If any) for an overwhelming majority of tablet consumers.

Fair enough, I'll chalk it up to my personal preference. I just find the kickstand so useful and like that I can keep my tablet caseless and thin.

 

[macalla]

I bought a SP2 last year despite already owning several iPads for one main reason...note taking with an EMR stylus. (I use Wacom's Bamboo Stylus Feel).
Apple really needs to get on this. I've tried a lot of note taking apps on my iPad, but the capacitive touchscreen/stylus just doesn't cut it.

My note taking experience with OneNote is surprisingly good! When I'm in class, I find handwriting is a lot more natural when quickly jotting down formulae, than a keyboard. The capacitive screen turns off when it senses the stylus is nearby so you can rest your wrist on the screen while writing.

I haven't experienced any wifi connectivity issues yet.

 

[diamond.g]

In general, you are correct. However when it comes to the Surface that excuse is not valid.
Microsoft does NOT have to rely on vendors for drivers for the components that make up the hardware that Microsoft is producing. They have total control over the components that are included in the Surface. They hand picked them. It is Microsoft's responsibility to either write the drivers themselves or put drivers through rigorous quality assurance.

But it appears that Microsoft simply takes the components and drivers using the same approach as every other Windows computer manufacturer and release something that is not any more trouble-free than the rest. If THAT is what constitutes a "premium" Windows device then it shows just how low the bar is.

I agree. It is annoying.

 

[sguyx]

But it appears that Microsoft simply takes the components and drivers using the same approach as every other Windows computer manufacturer and release something that is not any more trouble-free than the rest. If THAT is what constitutes a "premium" Windows device then it shows just how low the bar is.

You should relize that there are many option with "windows devices" even from the same manufacturer. You can buy a cheap one or a premium one. Can you do the same with Apple? Im very happy with my Zenbook that is absolutely a premium class laptop. At the time I bought that (two years ago, i7/quad-core/8gb/ssd256 etc...) only competitor was MacBookPro 15" with similar specs/benchmarks but its price was also 600 euros more (800 us dollars). Zenbook has been working well, and it still working the same way as day one. You can buy a cheap windows device but dont expect to get premium. But you cant buy a cheap Apple device, so you can expect to get premium.

My point is that you cant generalize that manufacturers (windows) dont make trouble-free devices. They do. And it doesnt mean that Apple does things better or worse. Apple doesnt let anyone else product "apples", so they have all control to components. Does it make things better? Yes and no. My Zenbook is excellent, Macbook pro retina is excellent, Galaxy Note is excellent but iPad Air is "terrible" althought the price was premium and expected to be made in high standards.

But i agree, you should get better quality from MS and the device with such a price tag, shouldnt havent these problems affecting daily usage.

 

[Night Spring]

My Zenbook is excellent, Macbook pro retina is excellent, Galaxy Note is excellent but iPad Air is "terrible" althought the price was premium and expected to be made in high standards.

What is wrong with your iPad? My iPad Air is as good as any device or computer I've ever owned. In fact, I'd say it edges out my iMac and MacBook Air as far as being trouble-free and easy to use.

 

[nixiemaiden]

I guess I have been pretty lucky and haven't noticed any of these issues. I haven't had any issues with wifi coming back from standby.

And I never intended to use my Surface as an mp3 player replacement so no issue there. I have only listened to music while I was using it and that has worked great.

As far as it getting hot randomly...yea but so does every other laptop I have ever used. And that is what this is...a laptop.

The only issue that I have had has been trying to install the desktop version of One Note so I could export to PDF. One Note is truly amazing. Being able to take screen shots by double clicking the top of the pen and being able to select the area of the screen you want to work with and having that clip show up in One Note has just been tremendously useful for me. However, after doing this, I needed to export to PDF to send to my boss and for whatever reason, the desktop version won't install and says it can't connect to the internet. Meanwhile I installed it on another computer so I could open up the notebook and export it to PDF and it worked flawlessly. No idea why I can't get One Note to install on this thing. It is nice that everything syncs to One Drive though so having to export from another computer isn't TOO much of a pain.

 

[sguyx]

What is wrong with your iPad? My iPad Air is as good as any device or computer I've ever owned. In fact, I'd say it edges out my iMac and MacBook Air as far as being trouble-free and easy to use.

The most part the pen and pen-related things. I already wrote irl-situation on the previous page. Im using a pencil often and I feel SPen is far way better than any pencils with iPad Air. It makes me feel frustrated. Secondly from time to time crashing and memory low warnings... i personaly think, that they never should have released ipad air without 2gb ram. Hopefully they have fixed it in iOS8. But it all depends on how you use your ipad air. If you do just a normal light browsing, reading, emails etc. You probably dont face much problem if any.

 

[Night Spring]

The most part the pen and pen-related things. I already wrote irl-situation on the previous page. Im using a pencil often and I feel SPen is far way better than any pencils with iPad Air. It makes me feel frustrated. Secondly from time to time crashing and memory low warnings... i personaly think, that they never should have released ipad air without 2gb ram. Hopefully they have fixed it in iOS8. But it all depends on how you use your ipad air. If you do just a normal light browsing, reading, emails etc. You probably dont face much problem if any.

Ok, well lack of pen support is a lack of a feature, not a sign of lower quality. The lack of RAM is for me a minor annoyance. But it's not like with my iMac, which often loses the USB connection to my external hard drives. That, I find far more problematic, especially when it loses the connection during read/write operations.

I haven't used any other Win8 machines, but in my few days with the Surface Pro3, it felt more glitchy than any of my Apple products. Not sure if the fault is hardware, or software, or the integration between the two.

 

[sguyx]

Ok, well lack of pen support is a lack of a feature, not a sign of lower quality.

Surely it is not. But it is a sign of low functionality with accessories. But yeah, you can always say that iPad is supposed to be used by a finger.. ehheh...

i haven't used any other Win8 machines, but in my few days with the Surface Pro3, it felt more glitchy than any of my Apple products. Not sure if the fault is hardware, or software, or the integration between the two.

Which version did you have? Im waiting to see i7 irl and I hope they have done improvements to it.

 

[Night Spring]

Surely it is not. But it is a sign of low functionality with accessories. But yeah, you can always say that iPad is supposed to be used by a finger.. ehheh...

if the iPad had a digitizer, like the Surface, but the digitizer didn't work as well, then that's lack of quality. Since it doesn't, it's lack of a feature.

I suppose we are arguing, semantics, though. The bottom line is, iPad doesn't have the kind of pen support you are looking for. Fine, I can understand that. Since I don't particularly need to use a pen with my tablets (I never even got around to trying the pen when I had the Surface), for me, the iPad is terrific.

Which version did you have? Im waiting to see i7 irl and I hope they have done improvements to it.

I believe it was the i5 -- that was the only version avaiable in June, right?

 

[sguyx]

I suppose it was i5 - or atleast i think all the reviews I have read were talking about i5... It never been available here - all units are "available on august".

 

[spinedoc77]

Secondly from time to time crashing and memory low warnings... i personaly think, that they never should have released ipad air without 2gb ram.

This is one of the major reasons I gave up my ipads even before windows tablets came out. I got sick of web browsing and seeing a checkerboard pattern waiting for graphics to load and having it force close with 5 tabs. Granted this was an ipad 3 so I don't know how much better the newer ipads are as that's the last one I owned.

 

[Night Spring]

This is one of the major reasons I gave up my ipads even before windows tablets came out. I got sick of web browsing and seeing a checkerboard pattern waiting for graphics to load and having it force close with 5 tabs. Granted this was an ipad 3 so I don't know how much better the newer ipads are as that's the last one I owned.

Haven't seen a checkerboard pattern in forever. It may be that the webpages I visit aren't that graphic intensive, but I haven't had any problems with most news sites and shopping sites.

As for force closing, all apps do it occasionarily, but for the most part, having more than 5 tabs open don't force close Safari, it just reloads the pages when you switch tabs.

I haven't updated my iPad 3 to iOS 7, so I don't know how they perform under that. On iOS 6, I feel my iPad 3 is rock solid. The Air tends to crash and reload tabs a bit more frequently than the 3. My iPad 3 just almost never crashed. It is the most stable device I have ever owned, by far.

 

[pesos]

Picked up an i5/8gb/256gb up today now that they're out here in Japan. They also had i7 models available (no i3).

I've owned the original RT and original Pro, and now have a Surface 2 that is my fiancée's primary machine and the SP3.

The 3 is great so far - the screen ratio makes so much more sense. Between the kickstand and the new keyboard design I've been able to work productively on my lap on the sofa for around 5 hours today without issues - something that isn't possible with the earlier iterations.

Can't say I'm a huge fan of the power connector design, but given what they've done with the docking station option I'll cut them a little slack. Not having a second USB port is annoying but not a dealbreaker. I haven't pushed it hard (Outlook, IE, RDP mostly) but it hasn't gotten hot at all and has been dead silent.

Took all of 7 minutes to reimage the machine with my custom Win8.1 Enterprise image and I was back on the corporate domain and fully functional a few minutes after that. Looking forward to picking up a US version of the keyboard next time I'm stateside.

I really wish I had had this sucker when I was in Vietnam for 2 months instead of my Air - way more portable!

 

[spinedoc77]

Picked up an i5/8gb/256gb up today now that they're out here in Japan. They also had i7 models available (no i3).

I've owned the original RT and original Pro, and now have a Surface 2 that is my fiancée's primary machine and the SP3.

The 3 is great so far - the screen ratio makes so much more sense. Between the kickstand and the new keyboard design I've been able to work productively on my lap on the sofa for around 5 hours today without issues - something that isn't possible with the earlier iterations.

Can't say I'm a huge fan of the power connector design, but given what they've done with the docking station option I'll cut them a little slack. Not having a second USB port is annoying but not a dealbreaker. I haven't pushed it hard (Outlook, IE, RDP mostly) but it hasn't gotten hot at all and has been dead silent.

Took all of 7 minutes to reimage the machine with my custom Win8.1 Enterprise image and I was back on the corporate domain and fully functional a few minutes after that. Looking forward to picking up a US version of the keyboard next time I'm stateside.

I really wish I had had this sucker when I was in Vietnam for 2 months instead of my Air - way more portable!

The power connector is terrible. It's pretty small, but it's still a brick. No one out there has even come close to the power adapter on the macbook Air, I'd give anything to have that on my SP3.

 

[soulreaver99]

The power connector is terrible. It's pretty small, but it's still a brick. No one out there has even come close to the power adapter on the macbook Air, I'd give anything to have that on my SP3.

Totally agree with you on this one. I hate that power brick. I wouldn't mind if they omit that USB charging port on the powerbrick to make it more portable!

 

[sracer]

I really wish I had had this sucker when I was in Vietnam for 2 months instead of my Air - way more portable!

I'm curious. In what way is the SP3 "way more portable" than your Air? (which Air? iPad Air, Macbook Air, 11 or 13?)
I find my MBA 11.6" highly portable and wouldn't consider the differences between that and the SP3 as being "way more".

 

[pesos]

I'm curious. In what way is the SP3 "way more portable" than your Air? (which Air? iPad Air, Macbook Air, 11 or 13?)
I find my MBA 11.6" highly portable and wouldn't consider the differences between that and the SP3 as being "way more".

My apologies - I should have clarified. I had 13" - and even that had such a low resolution (900 pixels) it was tough to get my work done. The 11" at 768 pixels would have been impossible.

For my kind of work the 11" trades too much functionality for portability. Now when Apple releases the new 12" I assume it'll have the proper pixels to go with it!