Surface Pro 3

[joshlalonde]

That is the biggest reason that I bought my SP3, the ability to run desktop apps. It is it's selling point as it is a laptop replacement.

I am giving up on the iPad/Android tablets like the person above mentioned also because they are too limited on what you can do. It is stock apps and app store apps only. I can't go to Adobe and install the full version of Photoshop or MS Office 2013. This is why the SP3 excels.

See, that's where you're confused. I'm not talking about the laptop-aspect.
The Surface Pro 3 is a mediocre laptop. Not bad. It's still an ultrabook, more or less. Great screen, decent battery, etc.

But it's a PATHETIC tablet.

The surface pro 3 is a decent laptop, but a bad tablet. There are very little (let alone decent) apps.

If you want a laptop, then by all means.
But if you want a tablet, you're better off looking elsewhere.

 

[JackieInCo]

See, that's where you're confused. I'm not talking about the laptop-aspect.
The Surface Pro 3 is a mediocre laptop. Not bad. It's still an ultrabook, more or less. Great screen, decent battery, etc.

But it's a PATHETIC tablet.

The surface pro 3 is a decent laptop, but a bad tablet. There are very little (let alone decent) apps.

If you want a laptop, then by all means.
But if you want a tablet, you're better off looking elsewhere.

The above is YOUR opinion and the users in this thread who own one say it is one of the best.

The apps don't matter because I can install anything. GET IT?

You are trying to convince us that it is bad when we say otherwise.

 

[Liquorpuki]

I think you're missing the big point here..
Microsoft promises a tablet and a laptop in one package.

We can debate whether it delivers on the laptop front,

but it very much so fails on the tablet front. There are a number of reasons

No I get your point but disagree anyway. Out of the many apps that exist on ARM a lot of them are just glorified web portals and exist because 3 years ago that was the only way a web portal could get into your iPhone/iPad file structure and run smoothly off an ARM chip. A lot of these apps were born out of the 4 inch smartphone screen era, where you couldn't fit a website in there. Now we're talking about 10 inch tablets and I have no problem navigating FB in IE Metro. The FB app with added swiping is redundant.

There's an app gap but I doubt most people buy an SP3 to run a free.99 app. The SP3 is not for app snackers, it's for power users, students, artists. Plus having a shortage of dispoable apps doesn't break tablet functionality. For tablet functions like e-Reading, it's perfectly fine. For tablet functions like browsing and email, it's blazing fast because of the x86 core architecture. For tablet functions that require stylus input, there is no better device.

 

[spinedoc77]

It's not necessarily just specific apps I'm looking for. Though, I could mention some offhand. Some games, I've already mentioned Photoshop Touch, etc. And the problem is that the Windows apps that do exist (e.g. Facebook, Sketchbook Express) lack features that their counterparts have. Basically, here's the problem, summed up: You can't ONLY use the modern apps. You should be able to use the modern apps and those alone to fulfill your needs.

On so-called dumb tablets like Apple iPad or any generic Android tablet, you can.
I'm aware some of you like the ability to run desktop apps, but it's rather pathetic that you have to run desktop apps just to enjoy your device of choice.

I highly prefer the desktop programs to the apps, I was never a big fan of the dumbifying we got when "apps" were introduced and I find the desktop equivalents quite superior. I find it pathetic that I can't run a full version of a program on a tablet but rather am forced into a dumbed down, feature poor "app". You like PhotoShop touch, I like the FULL version of PhotoShop, 2 different viewpoints and needs I suppose.

I hear what you are saying though, and I don't disagree that you won't find all your apps, but not everyone needs or wants an app equivalent. It seems in the end that a windows tablet just isn't suited for your needs, it's nice to have choices though.

 

[burgman]

The above is YOUR opinion and the users in this thread who own one say it is one of the best.

The apps don't matter because I can install anything. GET IT?

You are trying to convince us that it is bad when we say otherwise.

Uh it's a product calm down, nobody is taking yours.

 

[radus]

I don't know where the "Less - App" argument comes from.
But as more then once commented - you can install anything you want - it is a full PC.

You have not only all the Windows Programs, with "BlueStacks App Player" you can run any Android App on the Surface Pro you want ...with Hyper-V or VMWare any other operating system allowed

The Surface Pro 3 is the superior tablet and laptop ... and with an external Monitor a good "Workstation" !

 

[JackieInCo]

I can grantee that no one is buying the SP3 thinking about the Microsoft app store.

I had no idea what the app store icon even was while I was looking at the SP3 at BestBuy. I only discovered the app store once I bought the SP3 and took it home and started opening up everything to see what these apps were.

The first thing I did though was to start downloading the apps that I have on my Mac that are not downloaded from the Mac app store such as Office 2013, Filezilla, SapNZB and Firefox with adblockers for it and IE and then of course, iTunes.

This is a computer after all and that was what was on my mind in setting it up. I'm actually surprised that there is a Facebook app available for Windows when there is no app for OSX on the app store.

Anyways, that's my story and that's the way it is.

 

[gotluck]

I don't care about "apps" on x86 either

 

[zhenya]

I can grantee that no one is buying the SP3 thinking about the Microsoft app store.

I had no idea what the app store icon even was while I was looking at the SP3 at BestBuy. I only discovered the app store once I bought the SP3 and took it home and started opening up everything to see what these apps were.

The first thing I did though was to start downloading the apps that I have on my Mac that are not downloaded from the Mac app store such as Office 2013, Filezilla, SapNZB and Firefox with adblockers for it and IE and then of course, iTunes.

This is a computer after all and that was what was on my mind in setting it up. I'm actually surprised that there is a Facebook app available for Windows when there is no app for OSX on the app store.

Anyways, that's my story and that's the way it is.

I'm at least one person who considers the Microsoft app store important if Windows is ever to succeed as a general use tablet.

I don't care about "apps" on x86 either

I have to think people who say this must mostly use their Surface as a laptop because the desktop side is still woefully inadequate for tablet use. Yes, it's far better than it has been in the past, but it's still more of a situation where you can 'get by' via touch rather than it being a great experience. The keyboard alone remains the biggest hurdle. Why is there no auto-correct or suggestions when using the touch keyboard on the desktop?

 

[JackieInCo]

I'm at least one person who considers the Microsoft app store important if Windows is ever to succeed as a general use tablet.



I have to think people who say this must mostly use their Surface as a laptop because the desktop side is still woefully inadequate for tablet use. Yes, it's far better than it has been in the past, but it's still more of a situation where you can 'get by' via touch rather than it being a great experience. The keyboard alone remains the biggest hurdle. Why is there no auto-correct or suggestions when using the touch keyboard on the desktop?

There is an autocorrect when using the touch keyboard. I just used it to type this and it has popup with suggestions just like with android and iOS do. It also has a red squiggly line that you can tap for suggestions. Looks like you haven't tried a SP3.

 

[zhenya]

There is an autocorrect when using the touch keyboard. I just used it to type this and it has popup with suggestions just like with android and iOS do. It also has a red squiggly line that you can tap for suggestions. Looks like you haven't tried a SP3.

I have both a SP1 and a SP3 that I am now testing to see how much it has improved over the previous generations. In Chrome, there is no autocorrect, no automatic placement of punctuation, etc. Since it has been a while since I used these extensively, I see that at least in Microsoft programs - I tried Word, Outlook and IE on the Desktop, they all have the keyboard as expected.

Still, this should be system level, and not up to each individual developer to have to implement. Chrome is by far the most popular browser in the world today, while Microsoft is fighting an uphill battle with their tablets and mobile. The onus is on Microsoft, not Google, to make the experience as good as it can be.

 

[spinedoc77]

I can grantee that no one is buying the SP3 thinking about the Microsoft app store.

I had no idea what the app store icon even was while I was looking at the SP3 at BestBuy. I only discovered the app store once I bought the SP3 and took it home and started opening up everything to see what these apps were.

The first thing I did though was to start downloading the apps that I have on my Mac that are not downloaded from the Mac app store such as Office 2013, Filezilla, SapNZB and Firefox with adblockers for it and IE and then of course, iTunes.

This is a computer after all and that was what was on my mind in setting it up. I'm actually surprised that there is a Facebook app available for Windows when there is no app for OSX on the app store.

Anyways, that's my story and that's the way it is.

Same here. I feel as if I've suffered through "apps" all these years until windows started releasing tablets. There are a few apps I use regularly like email, IE and onedrive, but for the most part I really don't use many. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the reason for the app store, maybe windows users just really don't care all that much.

 

[TacticalDesire]

If we were talking about the Surface 2 RT, the app store would be much more important.

As it has been reiterated many times in this thread already, the app store on the SP3 is less relevant and I am of the opinion that is still does just fine as a general use tablet as well as a laptop.

Lets take a look at what most people use their tablets for:

Email
Web Browsing
Videos such as Youtube/Netflix etc.
Casual Gaming/Entertainment device

For all those the SP3 is more than adequate. For productivity, well, it's Windows so no need for watered down productivity apps like Photoshop touch or Pages.

Add a docking station and 4k Monitor and you also have a desktop replacement minus some of the expandability.

 

[tbayrgs]

Same here. I feel as if I've suffered through "apps" all these years until windows started releasing tablets. There are a few apps I use regularly like email, IE and onedrive, but for the most part I really don't use many. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the reason for the app store, maybe windows users just really don't care all that much.

Since many users like you just prefer to use the desktop and it's associated software, what makes the user experience doing so on the SP3 better than say on a high quality laptop running Windows? I guess this is where my confusion lies--the keyboard/trackpad seems like a huge compromise vs. what you'd get on a laptop and if the tablet experience hasn't been optimized (applications designed to make best use of the tablet aspect), I don't see why one would choose this over a slim, well made laptop. Do you use a lot of stylus bases programs?

Genuine question, not trolling you or discounting that you find it an ideal solution for your needs. Just trying to understand because it still seems to fall short as the convergence device it's being made out to be.

 

[jwalker99]

Since many users like you just prefer to use the desktop and it's associated software, what makes the user experience doing so on the SP3 better than say on a high quality laptop running Windows? I guess this is where my confusion lies--the keyboard/trackpad seems like a huge compromise vs. what you'd get on a laptop and if the tablet experience hasn't been optimized (applications designed to make best use of the tablet aspect), I don't see why one would choose this over a slim, well made laptop. Do you use a lot of stylus bases programs?

Genuine question, not trolling you or discounting that you find it an ideal solution for your needs. Just trying to understand because it still seems to fall short as the convergence device it's being made out to be.

Personally, I DON'T find the experience of using the Surface Pro 3 as a laptop to be superior to that of a dedicated laptop, nor the tablet experience to be necessarily superior to a dedicated tablet. In fact, as you mention, there are some compromises to each.

BUT, because you can remove the keyboard and use it as a tablet, i DO find the experience of consuming content on the SP3 to be far superior than doing the same with a dedicated laptop -things like surfing the web, browsing emails, reading, watching videos, etc. Similarly, the experience of creating content is far superior to that of a dedicated tablet because you can attach a keyboard and fire up full desktop applications to get work done. So in that regard, the SP3 truly offers the best of both worlds.

I certainly wouldn't recommend the SP3 as a laptop or tablet ONLY device, because you can definitely find more comprehensive and cheaper dedicated options. But I prefer the convenience of one device, and can sincerely state that I haven't missed either my iPad or MacBook since making the switch.

 

[spinedoc77]

Since many users like you just prefer to use the desktop and it's associated software, what makes the user experience doing so on the SP3 better than say on a high quality laptop running Windows? I guess this is where my confusion lies--the keyboard/trackpad seems like a huge compromise vs. what you'd get on a laptop and if the tablet experience hasn't been optimized (applications designed to make best use of the tablet aspect), I don't see why one would choose this over a slim, well made laptop. Do you use a lot of stylus bases programs?

Genuine question, not trolling you or discounting that you find it an ideal solution for your needs. Just trying to understand because it still seems to fall short as the convergence device it's being made out to be.

It's not that I prefer to use the desktop at all, I'm just not a big app guy. But what makes the user experience better than a laptop is the ability to use it as a tablet when I want to. The keyboard isn't a compromise when you note the size/thinness and weight. I don't need a full laptop, but I wouldn't suggest the SP3 to someone who does need a full laptop. If that's what you need then you shouldn't even be asking, just buy a full laptop. Also in terms of apps being optimized I get it, people think they want to write their masters thesis while standing up on the subway. For example, for me using the Facebook web program over modern internet explorer has better functionality than the ios/android apps and that's using full tablet mode with only touch, but once again that's just me.

As a convergence device I think it's pretty awesome. Non windows tablets are not convergence devices IMO, what do they converge? They are not converging traditional computers IMO, they are a new category of consumption devices.

My last point is how desktop programs are also morphing to be more touch friendly. Look at MS OneNote desktop program for example, it's quite nice with larger buttons and more of a touch oriented feel. MS office is also slated to get the same treatment very soon, but even MS office 2013 has nice big ribbon buttons that work well with touch. Certainly you can compare office to the watered down word processing apps on ios/android and see the difference. They may be good for many, I'm not denying that, but there is NO way in hell I'd be able to survive without having windows office. Another example is PhotoShop, the full version has a touch optimized version, yet retains all the features, there is a reason something like that is not on iOS or android.

Great discussion. It all boils down to user need though, and nothing wrong if we simply use our devices differently.

 

[joshlalonde]

No I get your point but disagree anyway. Out of the many apps that exist on ARM a lot of them are just glorified web portals and exist because 3 years ago that was the only way a web portal could get into your iPhone/iPad file structure and run smoothly off an ARM chip. A lot of these apps were born out of the 4 inch smartphone screen era, where you couldn't fit a website in there. Now we're talking about 10 inch tablets and I have no problem navigating FB in IE Metro. The FB app with added swiping is redundant.

There's an app gap but I doubt most people buy an SP3 to run a free.99 app. The SP3 is not for app snackers, it's for power users, students, artists. Plus having a shortage of dispoable apps doesn't break tablet functionality. For tablet functions like e-Reading, it's perfectly fine. For tablet functions like browsing and email, it's blazing fast because of the x86 core architecture. For tablet functions that require stylus input, there is no better device.

You're still missing the point. I'm saying that, perhaps you are buying the SP3 for the other aspect, but you're not getting the full potential of the device that was promised to you.

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I highly prefer the desktop programs to the apps, I was never a big fan of the dumbifying we got when "apps" were introduced and I find the desktop equivalents quite superior. I find it pathetic that I can't run a full version of a program on a tablet but rather am forced into a dumbed down, feature poor "app". You like PhotoShop touch, I like the FULL version of PhotoShop, 2 different viewpoints and needs I suppose.

I hear what you are saying though, and I don't disagree that you won't find all your apps, but not everyone needs or wants an app equivalent. It seems in the end that a windows tablet just isn't suited for your needs, it's nice to have choices though.

No, I like both versions. But sometimes, it would be better to use the easy version on the go.

 

[handsome pete]

You're still missing the point. I'm saying that, perhaps you are buying the SP3 for the other aspect, but you're not getting the full potential of the device that was promised to you.

Please, enlighten us on the potential that Surface users are missing out on.

 

[joshlalonde]

Please, enlighten us on the potential that Surface users are missing out on.

The tablet experience is half-baked. You get a touch screen and a slim device, but you don't get the software to match it. You make up for that by using desktop apps, but you're missing out on the real, touch-centric apps. You might not care about the apps, personally... but it's the principle.

Plus, you don't understand the full potential of an app. It's not just a webpage wrapper. It's long transcended that. If you ever looked into app development, you would realize the potential. Microsoft releases API (Application Programmer Interface) that lets app-devs to unlock their app. Whether its a simple API like internet access, there are other ones that access specific hardware like gyro sensors, and even health devices.

So, through the power of an app, you could access a device and use data in a meaningful way, etc.

A webpage doesn't have any power like that. Unless the device syncs to a web server..

That's just one example, might not be applicable to you, but it shows that apps aren't simple or dumbed down.

The UI of an app is usually 'dumbed-down', but a good app has lots of power hidden beneath.

 

[MasterRyu2011]

I had a "me" time at Best Buy yesterday for about 2 hours. I played around practically with every consumption and computing device there. I gotta say, the Surface Pro 3 is up there in terms of build quality, screen clarity, and design aesthetics. That and the 27 inch 5K macs.

The price of either is just way too much though for my needs (obviously much more so with the 5K Mac). I'm going with the Toshiba 1080p $299 Chromebook!

 

[Liquorpuki]

You're still missing the point. I'm saying that, perhaps you are buying the SP3 for the other aspect, but you're not getting the full potential of the device that was promised to you.

I'm not missing the point, I think the point is myopic

You're focusing entirely on the mobile app gap but there's more to tablet functionality than just having the biggest collection of disposable apps

 

[gotluck]

The tablet experience is half-baked. You get a touch screen and a slim device, but you don't get the software to match it. You make up for that by using desktop apps, but you're missing out on the real, touch-centric apps. You might not care about the apps, personally... but it's the principle.

Plus, you don't understand the full potential of an app. It's not just a webpage wrapper. It's long transcended that. If you ever looked into app development, you would realize the potential. Microsoft releases API (Application Programmer Interface) that lets app-devs to unlock their app. Whether its a simple API like internet access, there are other ones that access specific hardware like gyro sensors, and even health devices.

So, through the power of an app, you could access a device and use data in a meaningful way, etc.

A webpage doesn't have any power like that. Unless the device syncs to a web server..

That's just one example, might not be applicable to you, but it shows that apps aren't simple or dumbed down.

The UI of an app is usually 'dumbed-down', but a good app has lots of power hidden beneath.

Let's stop beating around the bush and get some real world examples of what apps you think the sp3 is sorely missing with respect to tablet functionality. I know spine doc has started a similar thread in the past, but if I'm not mistaken, the list of actual apps never got very long. surely there are some but you are overstating the impact imo

You say half baked tablet experience, I would lean more towards three quarters baked

 

[handsome pete]

The tablet experience is half-baked. You get a touch screen and a slim device, but you don't get the software to match it. You make up for that by using desktop apps, but you're missing out on the real, touch-centric apps. You might not care about the apps, personally... but it's the principle.

Plus, you don't understand the full potential of an app. It's not just a webpage wrapper. It's long transcended that. If you ever looked into app development, you would realize the potential. Microsoft releases API (Application Programmer Interface) that lets app-devs to unlock their app. Whether its a simple API like internet access, there are other ones that access specific hardware like gyro sensors, and even health devices.

So, through the power of an app, you could access a device and use data in a meaningful way, etc.

A webpage doesn't have any power like that. Unless the device syncs to a web server..

That's just one example, might not be applicable to you, but it shows that apps aren't simple or dumbed down.

The UI of an app is usually 'dumbed-down', but a good app has lots of power hidden beneath.

I'm not the one who mentioned that part about the apps, and while you're right, if we're looking at apps (in the appstore for example) then there's a **** ton of them that are just dumbed down versions of a more functional desktop version. And it's not like the lack of touch-centric apps is a fault of the device itself.

You have some good points, but you seem to ignore any of the advantages devices like the Surface do offer. I could be doing some photo touch up work with a Cintiq like workflow, or some 3d modeling/sculpting, sitting on my couch or elsewhere not tethered to a desk. Then I can take those files and just open them up on my workstation when I need more power and there's nothing lost in the transition. Developers have started to merge touch interaction in apps and I can only hope they progress this further so that we don't need to use 2 different versions.

As for how it couldn't live up to the potential on the laptop side of things, the only thing you can be referring to is the need to use a kickstand vs. a hinged screen. It is probably awkward to use on the lap, but if that's what you mean by not being able to reach its potential, then that's being pretty semantical.

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Let's stop beating around the bush and get some real world examples of what apps you think the sp3 is sorely missing with respect to tablet functionality. I know spine doc has started a similar thread in the past, but if I'm not mistaken, the list of actual apps never got very long. surely there are some but you are overstating the impact imo

You say half baked tablet experience, I would lean more towards three quarters baked

I agree. I think the complaint is somewhat legit, but overstated. For example, for an app like Spotify, I'd much rather have the mobile/tablet version rather than have to run the desktop version. Especially since the UI doesn't scale well on the Surface screen.

 

[gotluck]

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[/COLOR]

I agree. I think the complaint is somewhat legit, but overstated. For example, for an app like Spotify, I'd much rather have the mobile/tablet version rather than have to run the desktop version. Especially since the UI doesn't scale well on the Surface screen.

perfect example, agreed spotify app on ipad is awesome and I would miss it on SP3

 

[spinedoc77]

Let's stop beating around the bush and get some real world examples of what apps you think the sp3 is sorely missing with respect to tablet functionality. I know spine doc has started a similar thread in the past, but if I'm not mistaken, the list of actual apps never got very long. surely there are some but you are overstating the impact imo

You say half baked tablet experience, I would lean more towards three quarters baked

Yeah there were a couple of threads, including one I started. Nothing much came of them except an understanding that almost all of the apps people complained about were on windows in one way, shape or form.