Surface Studio discussion

[maflynn]

I don't even think that anybody would care if the Surface Studio's base was larger.

I agree completely, Both Apple and MS could make their respective computes a tad larger and add premium components that should be commensurate with the premium price. I see MS copying Apple as a way to be successful. Thinness is but one example. They highlighted how think the display was during the keynote and while it looks great, it means too many sacrifices imo

 

[Taz Mangus]

iFixit has their teardown of the Studio, and low and behold the hard drive is upgradeable, but this causes other thoughts to percolate back to the top.

Why in the world did MS put in a 5400RPM drive into a 3,000 - 4,000 dollar computer. I was fairly critical with Apple doing that on a 1,000 iMac, how much more should MS be castigated for using such a slow drive on a computer that costs 3x to 4x more.

View attachment 675299

And the RAM is soldered to the motherboard. You basically have to tear apart the base to get to the parts that can be upgraded like the SSD and hard drive. Not like the studio was designed with upgradebility in mind either.

Somehow MS will be given a pass on the 5400RPM HD and soldered RAM.

 

[kazmac]

I walked past the Microsoft store last night and paused when I saw the Studio. While I am not the target audience, I am very curious to see how this evolves with future releases. Curiosity peaked with a first impressions video that was posted in another thread here (The packaging and some of the design choices for peripherals are very smart. They obviously studied Apple's packaging and came up with something that makes a lot of sense. I wish I could say the same for the internals but apparently MS is taking the current leaf from Apple in that respect).

It would be great to get current internals for that price point. I am looking forward to seeing how this evolves and how folks who migrated to it fare.

 

[Jack Burton]

The last thing I need to test is the Wacom mobile studio. I've seen very impressive reviews on YouTube from artists who test all the hardware they can get, but hands on is the real decider for most artists.

I think I'm soured on the ntrig digitizer that ms uses in everything. I like the Apple Pencil best in terms of stylus, but like others don't want to be forced to work in photoshop via Astro pad - as this would also limit me to the Mac for my computer purchases. As I considered how cool astropad is (and it is indeed neat software), I realized a the end of the day I still need monster desktop performance quite often. Sticking with an iMac and external gpus would just increase my costs to ridiculous levels. I've got to draw the line somewhere.

My impression right now is that while Wacom had a few challengers in ms and Apple that they never had before, their next gen cintiq and mobile studio have everyone beat in display lag, sensitivity, and versatility (a full os that pros eventually need).

If Wacom comes out with a stylus similar to the Apple Pencil, I'm sorry to say that Apple has lost me completely as a customer on multiple fronts. I think it is more likely that Wacom comes out with a replacement stylus than for Apple to make a machine that would fit my wide varying needs.

 

[tubeexperience]

The last thing I need to test is the Wacom mobile studio. I've seen very impressive reviews on YouTube from artists who test all the hardware they can get, but hands on is the real decider for most artists.

I think I'm soured on the ntrig digitizer that ms uses in everything. I like the Apple Pencil best in terms of stylus, but like others don't want to be forced to work in photoshop via Astro pad - as this would also limit me to the Mac for my computer purchases. As I considered how cool astropad is (and it is indeed neat software), I realized a the end of the day I still need monster desktop performance quite often. Sticking with an iMac and external gpus would just increase my costs to ridiculous levels. I've got to draw the line somewhere.

My impression right now is that while Wacom had a few challengers in ms and Apple that they never had before, their next gen cintiq and mobile studio have everyone beat in display lag, sensitivity, and versatility (a full os that pros eventually need).

If Wacom comes out with a stylus similar to the Apple Pencil, I'm sorry to say that Apple has lost me completely as a customer on multiple fronts. I think it is more likely that Wacom comes out with a replacement stylus than for Apple to make a machine that would fit my wide varying needs.

The last thing I need to test is the Wacom mobile studio. I've seen very impressive reviews on YouTube from artists who test all the hardware they can get, but hands on is the real decider for most artists.

I think I'm soured on the ntrig digitizer that ms uses in everything. I like the Apple Pencil best in terms of stylus, but like others don't want to be forced to work in photoshop via Astro pad - as this would also limit me to the Mac for my computer purchases. As I considered how cool astropad is (and it is indeed neat software), I realized a the end of the day I still need monster desktop performance quite often. Sticking with an iMac and external gpus would just increase my costs to ridiculous levels. I've got to draw the line somewhere.

My impression right now is that while Wacom had a few challengers in ms and Apple that they never had before, their next gen cintiq and mobile studio have everyone beat in display lag, sensitivity, and versatility (a full os that pros eventually need).

If Wacom comes out with a stylus similar to the Apple Pencil, I'm sorry to say that Apple has lost me completely as a customer on multiple fronts. I think it is more likely that Wacom comes out with a replacement stylus than for Apple to make a machine that would fit my wide varying needs.

Lenovo IdeaPad Miix 700 is a Surface Pro 3/4 clone, but uses Wacom technology.

So there you go.

 

[Jack Burton]

Lenovo IdeaPad Miix 700 is a Surface Pro 3/4 clone, but uses Wacom technology.

So there you go.

Oh my, off to research...

 

[Jack Burton]

Lenovo IdeaPad Miix 700 is a Surface Pro 3/4 clone, but uses Wacom technology.

So there you go.

Yikes, my research into that one isn't yielding good impressions.

I'll just wait to get my hands on a wacom mobile studio some time. It's the only one with Wacom's next gen tech anyway.

 

[tubeexperience]

What does Tim Cook thinks when he sees the Surface Studio?

 

[Bubba Satori]

What does Tim Cook thinks when he sees the Surface Studio?

"I wonder if Jony is finished with his Christmas tree?"

 

[tubeexperience]

At least the SSD seems fairly standard.

 

[maflynn]

At least the SSD seems fairly standard.

Getting at it seems to be a chore, given what I saw on ifixit. Seems kind of disappointing, MS had so much opportunity to make this machine so much better or allow the customers to upgrade it (easily) and they didn't.

 

[tubeexperience]

Getting at it seems to be a chore, given what I saw on ifixit. Seems kind of disappointing, MS had so much opportunity to make this machine so much better or allow the customers to upgrade it (easily) and they didn't.

It doesn't look that tedious.

You would need to remove two fans and a speaker.

The base isn't glue in.

 

[Jack Burton]

Tons of reviews are out in Wacoms mobile studio. Their screen tech is the best. Nobody touches them.

The surface book and studio were shots at where Wacom was, not where they were going. The ntrig digitizers in surface products don't hold a candle to Wacom at this point. It doesn't matter about the internals if the digitizer tech isn't up to snuff, IMHO.

Good news is that you can use the next gen cintiq with a Mac. Or you can use the Wacom mobile studio Pro as a cintiq on the new Mac laptops with USB c (once Wacom irons out the drivers). So you can use this on the go as a full fledged windows machine, then plug it into your favorite Mac when you are at your desk. Not a bad compromise for the best tablet tech out there.

 

[tubeexperience]

Tons of reviews are out in Wacoms mobile studio. Their screen tech is the best. Nobody touches them.

The surface book and studio were shots at where Wacom was, not where they were going. The ntrig digitizers in surface products don't hold a candle to Wacom at this point. It doesn't matter about the internals if the digitizer tech isn't up to snuff, IMHO.

Good news is that you can use the next gen cintiq with a Mac. Or you can use the Wacom mobile studio Pro as a cintiq on the new Mac laptops with USB c (once Wacom irons out the drivers). So you can use this on the go as a full fledged windows machine, then plug it into your favorite Mac when you are at your desk. Not a bad compromise for the best tablet tech out there.

Wacom has its own issues like parallax.

 

[richinaus]

Wacom has its own issues like parallax.

Wrong. Parallex minimal in new tablets

 

[Jack Burton]

Wacom has its own issues like parallax.

Last gen wacom, you would be correct.

The latest gen cintiq and mobile studio is way ahead of everyone else in parallax and lag. There is absolutely no question who has the best digitizer. It's Wacom.

I like the apple pencil best, though. I find the tip to be significantly more realistic even if the surface of the iPad Pro is smoother, which some artists dislike. Something about the Wacom pen tips I find just a bit weird. I think it's because it is spring loaded. I also don't care to pretend I'm drawing on paper with a surface that has texture or "bite", but I think those that like that about wacom glass have me outnumbered.

Here's hoping the next iPad pro gets faster and has less lag. It's my favorite so far despite Wacom having the real edge in their latest lineup.

 

[CWallace]

The surface book and studio were shots at where Wacom was, not where they were going. The ntrig digitizers in surface products don't hold a candle to Wacom at this point. It doesn't matter about the internals if the digitizer tech isn't up to snuff, IMHO.

That seems to be arsTECHNICA's take on it with their in depth review - great for artists who work with the screen at 20 degrees, but for everyone else, buy an HP envy or iMac.

 

[tubeexperience]

That seems to be arsTECHNICA's take on it with their in depth review - great for artists who work with the screen at 20 degrees, but for everyone else, buy an HP envy or iMac.

The review from arstechnica is really really poorly written.

There isn't much about the user experience.

It's mostly rant and benchmarks.

The whole review can be summarized as "I can get a faster PC that's much cheaper than that".

Of cause, the same can be said about any Mac.

 

[CWallace]

The review from arstechnica is really really poorly written...There isn't much about the user experience.

Well he did make note of the limited adjustability of the screen (it's either full-up or full-down because any in between position will result in pen pressure / arm weight pushing it down). He also noted that the pen's sensitivity can be both too much and too little, depending on if it is touching the screen or hovering just over it. And he noted moving it can be a bit unwieldy and risks disconnecting cables - and you'll need to move it depending on whether it is in the upright or down position.

 

[tubeexperience]

Well he did make note of the limited adjustability of the screen (it's either full-up or full-down because any in between position will result in pen pressure / arm weight pushing it down). He also noted that the pen's sensitivity can be both too much and too little, depending on if it is touching the screen or hovering just over it. And he noted moving it can be a bit unwieldy and risks disconnecting cables - and you'll need to move it depending on whether it is in the upright or down position.

He said it himself that he's in no position to judge the device.

As an actual artistic device, I'm in no real position to judge the merits of the Surface Studio.

 

[vapourtrails]

To me the base is kind of fugly and I bet the touch screen would end up being tedious after the novelty wore off.

 

[tubeexperience]

To me the base is kind of fugly and I bet the touch screen would end up being tedious after the novelty wore off.

And what makes you say that?

 

[CWallace]

He said it himself that he's in no position to judge the device.

Probably because he is not an artist. And if you are not an artist, I don't see how the Surface Studio design is desirable. It certainly is what I do not want in an AIO design and if it had been the new iMac I'd be a MBP owner now (with a Win10 gaming machine).

 

[tubeexperience]

Probably because he is not an artist. And if you are not an artist, I don't see how the Surface Studio design is desirable. It certainly is what I do not want in an AIO design and if it had been the new iMac I'd be a MBP owner now (with a Win10 gaming machine).

Well, "artist" is a very big category.

It could be a architecture working at a drafting table.

It could be an illustrator working on a comic.

It could be a photographer using Photoshop and Lightroom.

It could be a composer working on a new symphony.

et cetera

 

[CWallace]

Well, "artist" is a very big category.

It could be a architecture working at a drafting table.

It could be an illustrator working on a comic.

It could be a photographer using Photoshop and Lightroom.

It could be a composer working on a new symphony.

et cetera

True, but I get the strong impression that the Surface Studio is aimed specifically at "illustrator working on a comic" - i.e. the Cintiq Crowd. It certainly mimics a Cintiq in functionality and Cintiqs are the darling of illustrators.