Swimming For Exercise

[Huntn]

After taking two weeks off from swimming due to a sore shoulder, I'm feeling pretty good and ready to resume on Monday. I found this article interesting. Of note, it says the freestyle crawl and back stroke are hardest on your shoulders.

Although I'll resume with less laps than the normal 50, I plan on starting with 20 laps and working up. It's also possible Although I swam 50 laps for a year, maybe I should be swimming less, maybe 40 laps to avoid injury?

Because of this issue, I'm considering changing the total number of free style and backstroke laps I was doing which before totaled up to 38 out of the 50 laps. The interesting thing is that I've felt that the backstroke is more of a casual stroke for me, but I wonder if this is actually true or it's just as hard on your shoulder as the crawl is?

My normal work out was a mix of 3 sets of ten- 2 side stroke, 4 crawl, 2 backstroke, and 2 breast stroke. As the second and fifth set, I'd swim 10 laps of crawl, total 50 laps. Now based on this article although I feel I'm getting the best exercise when swimming crawl, I'm thinking it might help if I do no more than 50% crawl and back stroke combined. Something like 5 sets of 4 sidestroke, 4 crawl, 2 breast.

Thoughts from young or elderly swimmers?

Swimming After A Shoulder Injury
How should I swim?
When deciding what is the best way to swim we must look at what is the most biomechanically sound position and motion for the upper extremity given our anatomy. The four swimming styles are freestyle, backstroke, butterfly, and breast stroke. No matter which stroke is performed they all require repetitive motions of the arms. Additionally, in free style and back stroke the top of the arm bone is more likely to come into contact with archway in which the tendons aggravated by an impingement injury pass prolonging the injury. Breast stroke is typically seen as best because the arms stay under the water and there is no overhead motion while still a repetitive activity. Furthermore, free style, back stroke, and butterfly require the upper extremity to lift out of the water requiring greater muscle forces and putting the arm into a higher risk position as it extends behind the body. Swimming is a full body activity! The more you use your core and legs the less work will fall on the shoulder joint- this is an easy way to tailor the swim to your current needs. Do be cautious however if you have a knee injury and want to try breast stroke.

 

[A.Goldberg]

After taking two weeks off from swimming due to a sore shoulder, I'm feeling pretty good and ready to resume on Monday. I found this article interesting. Of note, it says the freestyle crawl and back stroke are hardest on your shoulders.

Although I'll resume with less laps than the normal 50, I plan on starting with 20 laps and working up. It's also possible Although I swam 50 laps for a year, maybe I should be swimming less, maybe 40 laps to avoid injury?

Because of this issue, I'm considering changing the total number of free style and backstroke laps I was doing which before totaled up to 38 out of the 50 laps. The interesting thing is that I've felt that the backstroke is more of a casual stroke for me, but I wonder if this is actually true or it's just as hard on your shoulder as the crawl is?

My normal work out was a mix of 3 sets of ten- 2 side stroke, 4 crawl, 2 backstroke, and 2 breast stroke. As the second and fifth set, I'd swim 10 laps of crawl, total 50 laps. Now based on this article although I feel I'm getting the best exercise when swimming crawl, I'm thinking it might help if I do no more than 50% crawl and back stroke combined. Something like 5 sets of 4 sidestroke, 4 crawl, 2 breast.

Thoughts from young or elderly swimmers?

Swimming After A Shoulder Injury
How should I swim?
When deciding what is the best way to swim we must look at what is the most biomechanically sound position and motion for the upper extremity given our anatomy. The four swimming styles are freestyle, backstroke, butterfly, and breast stroke. No matter which stroke is performed they all require repetitive motions of the arms. Additionally, in free style and back stroke the top of the arm bone is more likely to come into contact with archway in which the tendons aggravated by an impingement injury pass prolonging the injury. Breast stroke is typically seen as best because the arms stay under the water and there is no overhead motion while still a repetitive activity. Furthermore, free style, back stroke, and butterfly require the upper extremity to lift out of the water requiring greater muscle forces and putting the arm into a higher risk position as it extends behind the body. Swimming is a full body activity! The more you use your core and legs the less work will fall on the shoulder joint- this is an easy way to tailor the swim to your current needs. Do be cautious however if you have a knee injury and want to try breast stroke.

Taking it easy after an injury is probably a smart idea. I'd be surprised with 2 weeks out of the water if you'd be able to jump right back into your routine where you left off- so take it easy. Sorry to hear about your troubles.

Usually one of the biggest contributors to shoulder injury is improper technique, which causes unnecessary stress on your joints. One way to help is to breath bilaterally, which in effect promotes better body roll, and more equal usage of both sides of the body. If I remember you breath unilaterally, which can be fine for racing in terms of comfort, but for practice/exercise swimming it is preferred. It won't be comfortable at first, but there are some drills to help work on it. Within a 2-3 weeks of regular swimming it should begin to feel normal.

Here's an article on swimming techniques to help reduce freestyle shoulder injury:
http://www.swimsmooth.com/injury.php

This is an interesting article I found a while back about proper stretching techniques. Apparently some of the common stretches aren't so good:
http://www.usmsswimmer.com/201001/swimmer_stretching.pdf

I think integrating more back and breast is probably a good idea too. It may relieve some of the repetitive wear and tear on your shoulders.

Especially with a couple weeks out of the water it's probably in your best interest to do a lot of drills to get back in shape and, more importantly, reinforce good technique. I don't know where you stand with your technique these days but it might be a good idea to join a masters team, adult swim club/classes, or find a private tutor to help assess your technique. In that you've had a decent amount of time out of the water (2 weeks is fairly long, imagine not walking for 2 weeks), now would be a great time to reinforce proper technique. It might cost some money to get a coach of sorts, but if you plan on keeping up swimming as a lifelong sport it's probably worth it if you can afford it.

 

[Huntn]

Taking it easy after an injury is probably a smart idea. I'd be surprised with 2 weeks out of the water if you'd be able to jump right back into your routine where you left off- so take it easy. Sorry to hear about your troubles.

Usually one of the biggest contributors to shoulder injury is improper technique, which causes unnecessary stress on your joints. One way to help is to breath bilaterally, which in effect promotes better body roll, and more equal usage of both sides of the body. If I remember you breath unilaterally, which can be fine for racing in terms of comfort, but for practice/exercise swimming it is preferred. It won't be comfortable at first, but there are some drills to help work on it. Within a 2-3 weeks of regular swimming it should begin to feel normal.

Here's an article on swimming techniques to help reduce freestyle shoulder injury:
http://www.swimsmooth.com/injury.php

This is an interesting article I found a while back about proper stretching techniques. Apparently some of the common stretches aren't so good:
http://www.usmsswimmer.com/201001/swimmer_stretching.pdf

I think integrating more back and breast is probably a good idea too. It may relieve some of the repetitive wear and tear on your shoulders.

Especially with a couple weeks out of the water it's probably in your best interest to do a lot of drills to get back in shape and, more importantly, reinforce good technique. I don't know where you stand with your technique these days but it might be a good idea to join a masters team, adult swim club/classes, or find a private tutor to help assess your technique. In that you've had a decent amount of time out of the water (2 weeks is fairly long, imagine not walking for 2 weeks), now would be a great time to reinforce proper technique. It might cost some money to get a coach of sorts, but if you plan on keeping up swimming as a lifelong sport it's probably worth it if you can afford it.

I just read your first link and I'm pretty good with what it suggests. I use bilateral breathing, I roll, I'm aware of not crossing over my arms, I usually avoid straight arm pulls, although I may do a thumb first hand entry in the water. So I'll be aware of that and make sure I'm focused on these items. The second article looks great for stretching. As a strong proponent of stretching, I'll be doing theses and will report back on progress.

 

[Huntn]

I've been using a swimmer's snorkel for the last 2 weeks. I don't use it exclusively when doing the crawl, I'm splitting up my crawl laps 50-50 between using and not using. This seems to be a good choice. My neck is not always tender now, and when not limited by air, I can go faster, ie get a better workout for those laps. I'm still using recovery laps like breast and side stroke.

 

[0002378]

Nice topic ! Wish I had something to contribute, other than saying I learned how to swim at the age of 31, and even then, only the breast stroke which came naturally to me. To this day, haven't figured out freestyle, despite private lessons and hours and hours of practice.

 

[SoggyCheese]

Nice topic ! Wish I had something to contribute, other than saying I learned how to swim at the age of 31, and even then, only the breast stroke which came naturally to me. To this day, haven't figured out freestyle, despite private lessons and hours and hours of practice.

That's how it works IMO. You can go ages with something feeling unnatural, then one day it'll either click into place or it won't. In the meantime though you have breast stroke to carry on with. It's all good.

 

[Huntn]

Nice topic ! Wish I had something to contribute, other than saying I learned how to swim at the age of 31, and even then, only the breast stroke which came naturally to me. To this day, haven't figured out freestyle, despite private lessons and hours and hours of practice.

Total Immersion, has a good video Perpetual Motion (second link) to teach their method of free style.
http://www.totalimmersion.net/
This video $20 is the same method, but different content than the YouTube series below: http://www.totalimmersion.net/store...rsion-self-coached-workshop.html#.WmIEQOZMGhA

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I've been using a swimmer's snorkel for the last 2 weeks. I don't use it exclusively when doing the crawl, I'm splitting up my crawl laps 50-50 between using and not using. This seems to be a good choice. My neck is not always tender now, and when not limited by air, I can go faster, ie get a better workout for those laps. I'm still using recovery laps like breast and side stroke.

Of interest, this snorkel has the introduced a personal adjustment. It frees up your breathing, allowing me to over exert myself, ending up with a slightly sore shoulder. I have to remind myself that at my age, at least this is what I attribute this to, I just can’t go crazy, full out, like I could 30 years ago, because now I pay for it. Taking this swim day off.

 

[Huntn]

Since my last my post, I thought I had resolved my shoulder issue, but a sore elbow this morning. Grrr.

 

[ejb190]

Being a scuba diver, I can understand the technique/injury relationship. I’ve had to learn to keep my head down while diving to reduce neck strain and alter my kick to reduce ankle strain. (Different fins would probably help, but that’s $250 I don’t have right now).

Thanks to this thread, I think I am understanding why the swimmers stare when I wear my scuba fins to swim laps...

 

[BeefCake 15]

I think a tech company (which some of us on this forum might just of heard of ) has just updated their smart watch with swimming capabilities...

When its released and being used can some one report back here (from a swimming perspective) as to how well it works, my experiences with lap / stroke counting watches has been a bit mixed - and this one certainly isn't an impulse buy here in the UK. (£400 )

I tried the AW S3 the other day for swimming. It's a great starting iteration for a smart watch as it does lap count and grows accurate with time +/- 10Yards from my first experience. I loved the fact that it even tries to measure the distance per swimming style, wasn't too accurate but my technique changed and it threw it off.

I heard great things also about the Garmin smartwatch for swimming (among other activities) but never tested it.

 

[Hurrypotter66]

cannot swim tried to learn it last summer, but failed. Maybe I was born landlubber

 

[Huntn]

cannot swim tried to learn it last summer, but failed. Maybe I was born landlubber

Some basic guidance might help you. Did you take some lessons? The basics and mechanics are not that difficult.
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Since my last my post, I thought I had resolved my shoulder issue, but a sore elbow this morning. Grrr.

I’m also noticing that typing on my iPad with the index finger of my left hand may be contributing to this issue.

 

[jav6454]

cannot swim tried to learn it last summer, but failed. Maybe I was born landlubber

You need to take lessons/classes for it. No one is born a swimmer.

 

[Hurrypotter66]

@Huntn, @jav6454, thanks a lot for your suggestion. I would consider taking some swimming lessons this year. Wish me success

 

[jbarley]

I'm in my 80's today, but I grew up in a small, (very small) town on BC's northern coast.
Town was called "Ocean Falls" and we used to joke that it fell from the sky. (annual rainfall 300" avg.)
But the one thing our little town did really well was produce good swimmers, able to compete and win against the worlds best.
And they did this all in a 60ft. indoor pool, with good coaching.
While I never competed I could swim well, as could every other kid who grew up in Ocean Falls.
http://www.independentsportsnews.com/1969/12/31/tiny-club-knew-no-boundaries/

 

[Huntn]

@Huntn, @jav6454, thanks a lot for your suggestion. I would consider taking some swimming lessons this year. Wish me success

YOU CAN DO IT! See post 57, there is a suggestion for a video that teaches swimming.

 

[Hurrypotter66]

YOU CAN DO IT! See post 57, there is a suggestion for a video that teaches swimming.

Thanks! I will study carefully

 

[A.Goldberg]

Thanks! I will study carefully

I care across Chloe Sutton’s YouTube channel looking for some new drills. Her videos are very descriptive and easy to understand. She demonstrates correct and incorrect technique and it’s easy to see (unlike a lot of other videos) as she’s in an infinity pool.

@Huntn you might appreciate these too.

 

[Huntn]

Someone left a pair of hand paddles by the pool so I borrowed them, and quickly realized their value. These are fantastic for strengthening, so I now have a pair which I use during my laps swimming crawl (freestyle?)

​

Just completed 2 years of swimming, 2500 yard sessions (50 laps), mixed strokes, 3 times a week. I’m in better shape, but still about 215lb, 5’9”. Diet is the issue why my weight has not dropped below 200 lb. Just not willing to make that sacrifice yet.

 

[SoggyCheese]

Seriously well done man. Very impressive commitment. I still normally only do 1500m a session, due to going during my lunch break and not having time for further on workdays, but will go up to 3km at the weekend. Typically 4 or 5 sessions a week again, so no real change in routine.

Need to figure out how to push myself a bit really. Interesting what you said about the paddles. Might get a pair of those as a result. What muscles do they tend to strengthen? Shoulders and pecs?

 

[A.Goldberg]

I’d be careful with hand paddles (along with pull bouys). They’re great for developing techique but if overused people can get “dependent” on them.

 

[Huntn]

Seriously well done man. Very impressive commitment. I still normally only do 1500m a session, due to going during my lunch break and not having time for further on workdays, but will go up to 3km at the weekend. Typically 4 or 5 sessions a week again, so no real change in routine.

Need to figure out how to push myself a bit really. Interesting what you said about the paddles. Might get a pair of those as a result. What muscles do they tend to strengthen? Shoulders and pecs?

Yes, arms shoulders, you'll notice a substantial increase in the force it takes to move your hands through the water.

I’d be careful with hand paddles (along with pull bouys). They’re great for developing techique but if overused people can get “dependent” on them.

I'm currently swimming 6 sets of 8 laps. I have a swimmer's snorkel and now hand paddles. The first 5 sets are 2 side stroke, 4 crawl, 2 breast stroke. The last set is 10 crawl laps to get me a total of 50 laps, but for the last set, I use the snorkel and paddles for 6 laps, and nothing for the last 4 laps.
I'm alternating the sets to use the snorkel, and 4 of the 6 sets I'm using the paddles for the crawl laps. Two of the laps are without paddles, 3 are without snorkel, to maintain my unassisted swim technique.

Please explain how people become dependent on paddles? What I notice primarily is that when wearing them, it requires more muscle to move your hand through the water. It has put me more in tune with the proper way to catch water with my hands, because with just hands the resistance is much less. But when I switch back to not using paddles, it just seems I can move my hands through the water at a faster pace, so I'm not clear on the dependency you are referencing.
Thanks!

 

[960design]

Feeling the water is the magic in the paddles. While the paddles may make you swim a little faster, they are significantly improving your stroke and strength. Taking them off and swimming around 'naked' seems so much easier, plus you learn how to feel the pull of the water through hands only. No dependency worries.

Keep at it. You say 5'9" 215lb. Think how many years it took to build up to that weight, it will take several to take it back off. Just keep at it.

 

[A.Goldberg]

Paddles can promote uneven stroke speed/unwanted stroke rhythms, poor hand placement, etc. The increased resistance also put your shoulders at a higher risk of injury.

I think I follow your workout. Generally the recommendations say no more than 25% of total swimming with bouys or paddles or fins- though paddles and pull bouys are always a controversial subject. In that case it seems like you’d be overusing them. I’d say it’s better to swim faster or longer if you want to increase the level of your workout (better for your technique long term and better for your shoulders). Paddles are designed primarily to improve technique, not really to add a higher level of resistance.

Look at it simarly to fins. Fins have a higher level of resistance but they’re much easier to swim with as you get more power. People tend to get overly comfortable with such aids and it ultimately impairs their natural swimming abilities. Moderation is key, but if you feel you’re not suffering any ill effects, I can’t argue with that.

 

[Huntn]

Paddles can promote uneven stroke speed/unwanted stroke rhythms, poor hand placement, etc. The increased resistance also put your shoulders at a higher risk of injury.

I think I follow your workout. Generally the recommendations say no more than 25% of total swimming with bouys or paddles or fins- though paddles and pull bouys are always a controversial subject. In that case it seems like you’d be overusing them. I’d say it’s better to swim faster or longer if you want to increase the level of your workout (better for your technique long term and better for your shoulders). Paddles are designed primarily to improve technique, not really to add a higher level of resistance.

Look at it simarly to fins. Fins have a higher level of resistance but they’re much easier to swim with as you get more power. People tend to get overly comfortable with such aids and it ultimately impairs their natural swimming abilities. Moderation is key, but if you feel you’re not suffering any ill effects, I can’t argue with that.

Your points are well taken. Since I’ve been swimming, as I push myself, I’ve always been flirting with and crossing the line into low level injury. The first roadblock was when I moved to 60 laps and ran into shoulder problems. Hence I’ve settled on 50. Periodically I’ve used an arm strap to ease whatever it was going on with my upper arm, shoulder, but currently issues have receded. I’ve got a snorkel to reduce next strain (use about 50% of the time).

I’m not claiming to be an expert about paddles, but they feel as if instead of pushing 5 lbs, I’m pushing 15 lbs which seems to have a greater strengthening effect without undo strain, so far. The crawl is about 50% of my workout and I’m using paddles about about 70% of those. I guess I’ll see how it goes.
Thanks!
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Feeling the water is the magic in the paddles. While the paddles may make you swim a little faster, they are significantly improving your stroke and strength. Taking them off and swimming around 'naked' seems so much easier, plus you learn how to feel the pull of the water through hands only. No dependency worries.

Keep at it. You say 5'9" 215lb. Think how many years it took to build up to that weight, it will take several to take it back off. Just keep at it.

Paddles do accentuate the sweet spot for grabbing water. And I’ve noticed that it has improved my awareness when not using them. I’m more or less resigned to the unlikeliness that I'm going to drop 20 lb though exercise. They say for seniors diet has a much bigger input on weight than exercise, although exercise is vital in the big picture.