Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

bxs

macrumors 65816
Oct 20, 2007
1,151
529
Seattle, WA
I still don't understand what the cable is used for. I can see one end would connect to the 10-pin right socket, but don't understand the other end's purpose. What about the other two sockets ?

Are you saying the cable you posted an image of is a replacement for the cable that Promise includes with their J2i ?

Sorry to labor this point, but need some further clarification.... thanks. :)
 

bwinter88

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 20, 2012
152
1,913
I still don't understand what the cable is used for. I can see one end would connect to the 10-pin right socket, but don't understand the other end's purpose. What about the other two sockets ?

Are you saying the cable you posted an image of is a replacement for the cable that Promise includes with their J2i ?

Sorry to labor this point, but need some further clarification.... thanks. :)
This is for power only. You can use standard SATA cables to hook up the data lines to the board. The 10-pin was the only non-standard cable in the bunch, thus I’m providing it here.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bxs

joevt

macrumors 604
Jun 21, 2012
6,971
4,262
Seems to me you could make a drive cage that extends further toward the I/O card and/or the CPU. Use right or left angle (not sure which) USB and SATA connectors to maintain access to those ports.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bxs

bwinter88

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 20, 2012
152
1,913
Seems to me you could make a drive cage that extends further toward the I/O card and/or the CPU. Use right or left angle (not sure which) USB and SATA connectors to maintain access to those ports.
I think you would block the latch for the PCIe cards, there's not enough clearance even for right-angle plugs, and the connected molex would block it anyway.
 

joevt

macrumors 604
Jun 21, 2012
6,971
4,262
I think you would block the latch for the PCIe cards, there's not enough clearance even for right-angle plugs, and the connected molex would block it anyway.
you may need to increase distance from the motherboard to solve those issues. How much depth is there to work with? Would have to compare different orientations of hard drives to see if the increase in height is worth the loss in depth.
 

bwinter88

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 20, 2012
152
1,913
you may need to increase distance from the motherboard to solve those issues. How much depth is there to work with? Would have to compare different orientations of hard drives to see if the increase in height is worth the loss in depth.
I'm going the M.2 route so probably won't pursue this much further, but have a look and tweak my files if you want! I used tinkercad.
 

bwinter88

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 20, 2012
152
1,913
Do you think it would be possible to fit this in that space? IT would be great, could run 4x u.2 Drives on a 16X PCIe with only two power connectors.

The reason I am thinking u.2 is the $ per TB. There is great value in the u.2 used inventory.

Those look like huge external devices. The cage area is barely big enough to fit two standard 3.5” drives. I would say no.
 

joevt

macrumors 604
Jun 21, 2012
6,971
4,262
Those look like huge external devices. The cage area is barely big enough to fit two standard 3.5” drives. I would say no.
Well, the dimensions are 140.3 x 146 x 41.3mm. What are the dimensions of the space above the I/O card and right of the CPU cooler?
 

bwinter88

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 20, 2012
152
1,913
Well, the dimensions are 140.3 x 146 x 41.3mm. What are the dimensions of the space above the I/O card and right of the CPU cooler?
Hmm, maybe, but I think 140mm might be too wide. I guess if the case can slip over it it’s ok. I’d recommend trying to print your own cage and hooking up the drives manually rather than trying to fit that device. Right?
 

Ludacrisvp

macrumors 6502a
May 14, 2008
797
363
Shame they didn’t just put a miniSAS connector there that could have done a 4x sata breakout cable to a 4x 2.5” cage.
 

bxs

macrumors 65816
Oct 20, 2007
1,151
529
Seattle, WA
Shame they didn’t just put a miniSAS connector there that could have done a 4x sata breakout cable to a 4x 2.5” cage.
At this point after reading the discussions on how best to use the data&power sockets besides using the Promise Pegasus J2i, I'm sure there will be other vendors out there wanting to cash-in on offering other items that can be installed in this space... I bet they will start being revealed before year's end.
 
Last edited:

Rico

macrumors member
Jul 22, 2002
48
18
@bwinter88 What was your recommended fill value and layer thickness for this print? Different services defaulting to different values. And you mentioned ABS earlier, is that your preference for quality, or price? Also, I noted a new HDD file on the 7th, is that tweak test-fit?
 

bwinter88

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 20, 2012
152
1,913
@bwinter88 What was your recommended fill value and layer thickness for this print? Different services defaulting to different values. And you mentioned ABS earlier, is that your preference for quality, or price? Also, I noted a new HDD file on the 7th, is that tweak test-fit?

I used ABS which works great. 0.2mm layer height, 20% infill.

I can guarantee you that one fits, as I’m using it in mine right now—but only barely, as it scrapes up against the top of the USB port and is a very, very tight fit against those other SATA and power ports (but it does fit). I got rid of that gap to fix it, but can’t remember if I uploaded that version. It does take a bit of playing with to get it past the USB port and slid into those mounting holes, but it’s a solid fit once it’s in.

So if you’re ok with a tight fit, you’re good to go, otherwise if you can wait a week I will upload a new tested version that might go in easier.
 

Rico

macrumors member
Jul 22, 2002
48
18
I used ABS which works great. 0.2mm layer height, 20% infill.

Not at all meaning to be disparaging, but in your somewhat small image, I can see the print lines pretty plainly; is the print quality good enough at those settings to smooth (sand and/or mill) and paint to matte or gloss? I never know what I'm going to receive from a vendor, and don't mind finish work, but not if it's super-"ridge-y" and must absolutely be milled before sanding.

I used ABS which works great. 0.2mm layer height, 20% infill.

I can guarantee you that one fits, as I’m using it in mine right now—but only barely, as it scrapes up against the top of the USB port and is a very, very tight fit against those other SATA and power ports (but it does fit). I got rid of that gap to fix it, but can’t remember if I uploaded that version. It does take a bit of playing with to get it past the USB port and slid into those mounting holes, but it’s a solid fit once it’s in.

Is that more or less a function of the feature on the J2i, namely the long-slotted top-post receivers, that allow the top posts to be engaged, then slid straight back onto the MOBO posts and then slide-locked into final position, that you left out?

When I first saw your model, I thought to myself, how the heck does he install in two different directions at the same time? Is it the flexibility of the ABS that allows for this, or is it just forgiving enough to allow you to this it into place?

So if you’re ok with a tight fit, you’re good to go, otherwise if you can wait a week I will upload a new tested version that might go in easier.

I intend to modify it for left-angle (reversed) 'L' shaped top-keyhole-slots, though not the long, nearly full surface slots on the J2i; the 'L' shape will allow one to first engage the top standoff posts lifting up into the top of the 'L', then slide back to the MOBO posts, then slide to the right/rear to lock in final position (just like the J2i, just a much shorter entry throw). You may wish to modify your own next effort for this feature. (longtime machinist here; if you want more information on this type of receiver, let me know).

Thanks again for all the super helpful info; I'm trying to patiently wait for the W5700X for a BTO purchase, but I'm getting super antsy seeing everyone else have fun with their new beasts.

If you're willing, I'd be super-interested to know the precise distance from the MOBO deck to the top of the CPU heat sink cover (horizontal as you face it), and from MOBO deck to the bottom-side of the slot-post (i.e, the distance from the back of your carrier-slot-recess connecting point to the top of the heat sink), and, the thickness of the post receiver wall.

Most of the teardown don't make it clear that this distance looks to be an inch or more higher (wider) than the mounted J2i, but a 9 to 5 video gave a great rear-to-front shot that reveals a whole *bunch* of unused space.

From that, I can calculate the hard stop of the back of a carrier wall to the minimum safe distance out and still comfortably drop the MP case back on. If there's anymore space than that for the cover to drop past, that would be interesting to know, as well.

After I test flight a 3D print, and see what will really fit in there, and still cool reliably, I'm going to make a full steel hanger, probably with a removable magnetic cover and backplane. The steel will serve as a much better heat sink, and all the moving air will rapidly dissipate the drive heat I'm also pretty hopeful the drives can be rotated 90º, leaving room for a stack of 2.5" drives, as well as 3.5" spinners. If the cMP can comfortably fit a 3.5" drive sideways from SATA backplane to cover with room to spare, and on sleds, no less, it's hard to imagine this beast, with those extra-tall MPX modules, can't also squeeze them in.

I will, of course, share the plan files so a local machine shop can stamp/cut/print it (I suppose it could be ABS, if the tolerances are forgiving enough). If it works out really well, I'm considering making a custom SATA back plane for rapid drive swaps, possibly with sleds. Somebody should be making and selling this, but I'm not waiting for the next NAB or CES. I've got four internal 3.5" HDD and ten (sometimes fourteen) 2.5" SSD (eight or twelve in RAID 0 sets), not including NVMe on PCIe. Not interested in giving up very much of it. By hook or by crook, they're all going in that gorgeous case. It's going to be sad enough to take my burner external. So long, Eject button.

Cheers

F
[automerge]1578958483[/automerge]

Are you running 4*10Gb Ethernet in aggregation? Wild. Is this a production house, or your home?
 

AidenShaw

macrumors P6
Feb 8, 2003
18,667
4,677
The Peninsula
Are you running 4*10Gb Ethernet in aggregation? Wild. Is this a production house, or your home?
I would hope not aggregated.

Most of the time "aggregated" Ethernet means that you can run multiple streams in parallel. "40 Gbps" means four parallel 10 Gbps streams, not one 40 Gbps stream. If it's single threaded - 10 Gbps is the limit. Aggregation is great for busy servers - but of little value to a single user workstation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: atonaldenim

Rico

macrumors member
Jul 22, 2002
48
18
@AidenShaw sorry, I'm beyond tired and got my terms mixed up. Just wanted to confirm he/she/they are using four 10Gb ports, or 40Gb single port adapters, or 40Gb Fibre; and whether it was at home or in a commercial situation. I thought we were all pretty fancy running dual 1Gb, then dual 10Gb, but I'm getting old. (;
 
Last edited:

Rico

macrumors member
Jul 22, 2002
48
18
Everyone should be installing cat 8. Cat 8 can do 40gbps through copper

my head has been so far under water this past year I didn’t even note the spec had been finalized and actually started shipping. Damn, I thought CAT6a was expensive when I future-proofed (LOL!) my house several years ago when it was new and rare. Glad I also pulled fiber to my office and media room.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ZombiePhysicist

DoofenshmirtzEI

macrumors 6502a
Mar 1, 2011
862
713
Everybody I've known who has used a plastic cage has ended up regretting it. Plastic cages are really horrible at heat dissipation.
 

ZombiePhysicist

Suspended
May 22, 2014
2,884
2,794
That's great future-proofing, but that's also gonna' be damn expensive.
Cat 8nisn not much more expensive than 7a (assuming you were retiring anyway for 10g). I’m not suggesting people just go about rewiring “just to do it”. Also good cat 5e will do about 5gbps, and regular cat 6 can get you to 10gbps as is.
 

bwinter88

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 20, 2012
152
1,913
Everybody I've known who has used a plastic cage has ended up regretting it. Plastic cages are really horrible at heat dissipation.
Hmm, don’t know about that. Who else do you know is printing plastic cages for their new Mac Pro? How did they regret it? Did drives fail en masse, and they were somehow able to pinpoint it to poor heat dissipation specifically due to the cage being plastic? Air flows through an empty space the same if it’s inside plastic or metal.

[automerge]1578986383[/automerge]
Not at all meaning to be disparaging, but in your somewhat small image, I can see the print lines pretty plainly; is the print quality good enough at those settings to smooth (sand and/or mill) and paint to matte or gloss? I never know what I'm going to receive from a vendor, and don't mind finish work, but not if it's super-"ridge-y" and must absolutely be milled before sanding.



Is that more or less a function of the feature on the J2i, namely the long-slotted top-post receivers, that allow the top posts to be engaged, then slid straight back onto the MOBO posts and then slide-locked into final position, that you left out?

When I first saw your model, I thought to myself, how the heck does he install in two different directions at the same time? Is it the flexibility of the ABS that allows for this, or is it just forgiving enough to allow you to this it into place?



I intend to modify it for left-angle (reversed) 'L' shaped top-keyhole-slots, though not the long, nearly full surface slots on the J2i; the 'L' shape will allow one to first engage the top standoff posts lifting up into the top of the 'L', then slide back to the MOBO posts, then slide to the right/rear to lock in final position (just like the J2i, just a much shorter entry throw). You may wish to modify your own next effort for this feature. (longtime machinist here; if you want more information on this type of receiver, let me know).

Thanks again for all the super helpful info; I'm trying to patiently wait for the W5700X for a BTO purchase, but I'm getting super antsy seeing everyone else have fun with their new beasts.

If you're willing, I'd be super-interested to know the precise distance from the MOBO deck to the top of the CPU heat sink cover (horizontal as you face it), and from MOBO deck to the bottom-side of the slot-post (i.e, the distance from the back of your carrier-slot-recess connecting point to the top of the heat sink), and, the thickness of the post receiver wall.

Most of the teardown don't make it clear that this distance looks to be an inch or more higher (wider) than the mounted J2i, but a 9 to 5 video gave a great rear-to-front shot that reveals a whole *bunch* of unused space.

From that, I can calculate the hard stop of the back of a carrier wall to the minimum safe distance out and still comfortably drop the MP case back on. If there's anymore space than that for the cover to drop past, that would be interesting to know, as well.

After I test flight a 3D print, and see what will really fit in there, and still cool reliably, I'm going to make a full steel hanger, probably with a removable magnetic cover and backplane. The steel will serve as a much better heat sink, and all the moving air will rapidly dissipate the drive heat I'm also pretty hopeful the drives can be rotated 90º, leaving room for a stack of 2.5" drives, as well as 3.5" spinners. If the cMP can comfortably fit a 3.5" drive sideways from SATA backplane to cover with room to spare, and on sleds, no less, it's hard to imagine this beast, with those extra-tall MPX modules, can't also squeeze them in.

I will, of course, share the plan files so a local machine shop can stamp/cut/print it (I suppose it could be ABS, if the tolerances are forgiving enough). If it works out really well, I'm considering making a custom SATA back plane for rapid drive swaps, possibly with sleds. Somebody should be making and selling this, but I'm not waiting for the next NAB or CES. I've got four internal 3.5" HDD and ten (sometimes fourteen) 2.5" SSD (eight or twelve in RAID 0 sets), not including NVMe on PCIe. Not interested in giving up very much of it. By hook or by crook, they're all going in that gorgeous case. It's going to be sad enough to take my burner external. So long, Eject button.

Cheers

F
You’re taking this far beyond my intentions. I just wanted a cheap way to mount a couple drives and not pay $400. You realize that, in order to even open the case, you need to unplug everything from the back? It’s a royal pain. Who cares if some component inside looks nice or not? You will never see it. As long as it does its job, I say, it can look like it’s paper mache. But if it fulfills you and your hobby to do it, best of luck.

I wouldn’t mess with L-shaped holes. Just make that entry hole big enough so you can insert the cage in one direction and then move it into alignment with the other ones. It’s how the Pegasus cage and mine does it. The only reason mine is a tight fit is because the vertical dimension is just barely too big so the USB port stops it from being pushed in. If you’re intrepid, take my design into CAD software and chop off the empty space below the first drive cage, and it’ll fit fine.
 
Last edited:

DoofenshmirtzEI

macrumors 6502a
Mar 1, 2011
862
713
Hmm, don’t know about that. Who else do you know is printing plastic cages for their new Mac Pro? How did they regret it? Did drives fail en masse, and they were somehow able to pinpoint it to poor heat dissipation specifically due to the cage being plastic? Air flows through an empty space the same if it’s inside plastic or metal.
These weren't for Mac Pros, nor were they 3D printed. The new Mac Pro may be the only machine where it might work, due to the way it cools. But I would definitely give a hard think about it first.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.