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Pffft, new here?

iTunes is going to play its own formats and its own formats only. If you think they're going to do transcode, convert, whatever, prepare to be disappointed.

Apple has no incentive to make it do anything else. Why would they want you to get media in some other format when it, by definition, comes from some other "vendor"? They don't, that's why.

Maury

I have a lot of content in iTunes and iPhoto that didn't come from Apple. Trying to convert that into an Apple TV friendly format wouldn't be something I would do, nor would I want to do it again with the next upgrade to the iPad, Apple TV, etc, etc.

I meant exactly what I said. I expect iTunes to transcode the media libraries to Apple TV. If you interpret that as being something else, don't get all snarky with me.
 
I expect iTunes to transcode the media libraries to Apple TV. If you interpret that as being something else, don't get all snarky with me.
Um, Maury is right imo. If you are "expecting" iTunes to transcode all of your media to work on it ... I would agree you might be sadly disappointed. Again just an opinion and only time will tell. As well have you ever used qt to transcode video ??? It takes *forever* at best. Not the fastest encoder on the planet to be sure.
 
Like the idea as an option to have some media in the cloud. Also think that apps (or widget like) would be a nice touch.
 
I have a lot of content in iTunes and iPhoto that didn't come from Apple. Trying to convert that into an Apple TV friendly format wouldn't be something I would do, nor would I want to do it again with the next upgrade to the iPad, Apple TV, etc, etc.

I meant exactly what I said. I expect iTunes to transcode the media libraries to Apple TV. If you interpret that as being something else, don't get all snarky with me.

Sounds something like transcode360 for the Xbox. You have a bunch of files in various formats, iTunes transcodes it on the fly to a format playable by the :apple:TV. Is that the gist of your stance? If so, I'll eat my hat if that actually comes to pass;). I was never a fan of transcoding solutions anyway...I hate the thought of my HD content getting processed anymore than I already do with HB. Again, I'm picky though...each to his own.
 
Pffft, new here?

iTunes is going to play its own formats and its own formats only. If you think they're going to do transcode, convert, whatever, prepare to be disappointed.

Apple has no incentive to make it do anything else. Why would they want you to get media in some other format when it, by definition, comes from some other "vendor"? They don't, that's why.

Maury


So why is Netflix on the iPad's App store then and fully approved by Apple?

The reality is it is the content producers that don't want the ability to transcode, convert, play ripped mkv files, or "whatever". Not Apple. The reason why the Apple TV has more HD content available to purchase and download than just about any other device (including Apple's own Macs) is BECAUSE you can't rip, play ripped files in the popular ripped formats, etc. The content producers simply don't want to make their content available on devices that can do that so Apple has to design it in such a way that they will agree with.

That's why you don't see any content partnerships on a device like the WD TV Live. Even though it can play 1080p, handle pretty much any format you throw at it, and doesn't have any DRM restrictions, you can't buy any movies or tv shows on it FOR THAT EXACT REASON.

So again, that is not Apple's fault. Your beef is with the content providers. Apple wants to sell the hardware. That's their business model. They can't do it without any content so they have to play ball with the content producers.

Hopefully eventually Apple will convince them to be a little more fair with their content so you can easily make copies of or download the content you own like they convinced the music industry to open up. And they really do need to convince them to lower their prices. I wouldn't hold my breath though because Big Media are very slow to adept to change.
 
That is the current UI of Apple TV.
It's not even the current UI, it's the one they used a few years ago. The Apple TV has been improved greatly since its original introduction through software updates. In fact, it's pretty obvious that it still has capabilities that have not yet been utilized (such as direct-connect external storage, 720p30 video playback, and Bluetooth).
 
So why is Netflix on the iPad's App store then and fully approved by Apple?

The reality is it is the content producers that don't want the ability to transcode, convert, play ripped mkv files, or "whatever". Not Apple. The reason why the Apple TV has more HD content available to purchase and download than just about any other device (including Apple's own Macs) is BECAUSE you can't rip, play ripped files in the popular ripped formats, etc. The content producers simply don't want to make their content available on devices that can do that so Apple has to design it in such a way that they will agree with.

That's why you don't see any content partnerships on a device like the WD TV Live. Even though it can play 1080p, handle pretty much any format you throw at it, and doesn't have any DRM restrictions, you can't buy any movies or tv shows on it FOR THAT EXACT REASON.

So again, that is not Apple's fault. Your beef is with the content providers. Apple wants to sell the hardware. That's their business model. They can't do it without any content so they have to play ball with the content producers.

Hopefully eventually Apple will convince them to be a little more fair with their content so you can easily make copies of or download the content you own like they convinced the music industry to open up. And they really do need to convince them to lower their prices. I wouldn't hold my breath though because Big Media are very slow to adept to change.

You bring up an interesting point in this discussion. I think a lot of people consider the WDTV and the :apple:TV in the same category. As such, they get irked that the WDTV can do 1080p in a wide variety of formats and our beloved :apple:TV can't. But these two products are in different categories. WDTV is a media player and the :apple:TV is an extension of the iTunes store.

That said, I don't think the content providers care about the format. With applications like handbrake, it's trivial to change containers, formats, etc. They may not condone the practice but certainly they are aware the capability exists. The real reason you don't see 1080p downloads for purchase is that file sizes make downloading said files impractical.
 
this doesn't sound any different than what's already in place- the rental store... with the exception that the content you buy you can view again and again without paying $4.99 each time... SD stuff plays within min or 2 and HD takes longer... you just might not get to keep it locally

is that more or less the idea?
 
Could it be that this $99 price rumor is just a slightly revamped AirPort Express that offers music streaming via a new Apple service based on Lala? They could use an app on the iPod touch/iPhone/iPad to control the playback on the AirPort Express (i.e. the AirPort Express hardware wouldn't need its own UI). Seems like it would be a logical extension of the current AirTunes setup.

Frankly, from a cost perspective I can't see Apple offering an A4-based, 16GB Apple TV for only $99.
 
I have a lot of content in iTunes and iPhoto that didn't come from Apple. Trying to convert that into an Apple TV friendly format wouldn't be something I would do, nor would I want to do it again with the next upgrade to the iPad, Apple TV, etc, etc.

I meant exactly what I said. I expect iTunes to transcode the media libraries to Apple TV. If you interpret that as being something else, don't get all snarky with me.

Thats the beauty of an app-capable Apple TV, it would have apps like Air Video that will transcode video on the fly.
 
local storage limited to only Time Capsule? That's a **** load $$$$ for apple

Indeed. I'm hoping that merely means it'll be an option, and not that AppleTV will be totally unable to stream from computers in my home. I like owning and managing my own media, and for Apple to do anything contrary to that would be beyond stupid.
 
Indeed. I'm hoping that merely means it'll be an option, and not that AppleTV will be totally unable to stream from computers in my home. I like owning and managing my own media, and for Apple to do anything contrary to that would be beyond stupid.

I wouldn't sweat it. The current :apple:TV streams from both Mac and PC with no problems. I can't believe they would axe that capability.
 
aixporter said:
local storage limited to only Time Capsule? That's a **** load $$$$ for apple
godslabrat said:
Indeed. I'm hoping that merely means it'll be an option [Time Capsule], and not that AppleTV will be totally unable to stream from computers in my home. I like owning and managing my own media, and for Apple to do anything contrary to that would be beyond stupid.
I wouldn't sweat it. The current :apple:TV streams from both Mac and PC with no problems. I can't believe they would axe that capability.
I think the real concern is that this rumor says that the new Apple TV will only have a limited amount of internal flash memory for storage. Sure, you could always stream from a Mac/PC, but today's Apple TV has 160GB of built-in storage which allows it to function standalone with a fair amount of content. So, if this rumor is true how will Apple support additional storage for standalone operation? Will it only be available through Apple's fairly expensive Time Capsule?

Earlier I proposed the following cost comparison if Apple actually required the Time Capsule to extend local storage on the new Apple TV:

Today's Apple TV with 160GB storage = $229
Rumored Apple TV ($99) + Time Capsule ($299) = $398

Of course, you'd be getting significantly more storage with the Time Capsule (1TB@$299) but this cost increase would certainly be a barrier to many potential customers.

The only other option would appear to be the direct connection of just any USB-based hard drive to the new Apple TV. That would be really great, but I'm worried that it won't be allowed since it could introduce some DRM issues on rented HD movies.
 
I have a lot of content in iTunes and iPhoto that didn't come from Apple.

And, so, Apple doesn't care about you.

I meant exactly what I said. I expect iTunes to transcode the media libraries to Apple TV.

Why would they spend one scintilla of effort making this task easier for you? The mathematics is simple: for $x you would rather just buy it again than sit there watching it convert the format. All they have to do is calculate x.

Maury
 
I think the real concern is that this rumor says that the new Apple TV will only have a limited amount of internal flash memory for storage.

Well I always wanted SOME flash in there so the OS and main apps wouldn't need to spin up the drive just to do some YouTubeing.

So then the question is this: if there's a USB port and you can plug in your own drives, is everyone OK with it at that price point?

Maury
 
There's talk about using a Time Capsule for local storage, but how about the Airport Extreme with it's USB port. It seems like we should be able to use it and not be forced into buying another one with Time Capsule attached.
 
...So then the question is this: if there's a USB port and you can plug in your own drives, is everyone OK with it at that price point?
There's talk about using a Time Capsule for local storage, but how about the Airport Extreme with it's USB port. It seems like we should be able to use it and not be forced into buying another one with Time Capsule attached.
I think the problem may be that the movie studios don't want Apple to allow customers to attach a standard hard drive to any system that supports HD movie rentals. They (the movie studios) probably think that users will detach the drive and move the HD rentals to another system where they can defeat the copy protection/DRM. If you look at the current hardware market for media extenders you'll find that systems that offer premium content usually don't enable external storage through generic, USB-attached hard drives. That may be why the USB port on the current Apple TV has never been enabled (it's a DRM/copy protection thing).

Of course, there are ways around this problem, such as additional encryption at the file-system level. But probably the easiest method is to provide a form of physical protection which makes it more difficult for users to transfer the drive to another system (sealed cases with no easily accessible physical ports, etc.).

The other solution is to use a pure streaming model for the content delivery itself. That way the system would never have the entire movie stored locally on the playback device itself. IMO, this is the reason why HD content delivery will transition to a pure streaming model (it's a form of copy protection which the movie studios probably like very much).
 
Why are people expecting Apple to chuck away their entire ecosystem and current (cross product) method of doing things just for this new AppleTV?

Existing AppleTV, iPhone, iPod and iPad all function off of an iTunes library running on a Mac/PC. Thats how you buy / catalog the content and how Apple sorts your authorisations.

I can't imagine for a minute you're suddenly going to get TimeCapsule as a direct storage device when they haven't offered that for anything up to now. iTunes sits there as a useful buffer to check your content is compatible with a particular device and to assemble everything under one roof so you aren't running separate libraries / having to drag and drop everything for your various Mac devices.

I can see the possibility of a cloud based "iTunes" on top of local iTunes, but can't see them completely reinventing their current working method for no (as far as they are concerned) good reason. Surely it would defeat a lot of the point of cross platforming (hardware and software) the iPhone, iPad and AppleTV if they then start putting custom file access onto the AppleTV.
 
Why are people expecting Apple to chuck away their entire ecosystem and current (cross product) method of doing things just for this new AppleTV?...I can see the possibility of a cloud based "iTunes" on top of local iTunes, but can't see them completely reinventing their current working method for no (as far as they are concerned) good reason. Surely it would defeat a lot of the point of cross platforming (hardware and software) the iPhone, iPad and AppleTV if they then start putting custom file access onto the AppleTV.
I'm not sure that anyone has suggested that the current method of obtaining content from the iTunes Store is going completely away. They could continue with the current methods and just offer expanded content availability with the streaming-only model.

As for using something like the Time Capsule for content storage, if this $100 Apple TV rumor is true then Apple will most likely have to offer something that would enable expanded local storage (beyond the rumored 16GB). If it could only come from a Mac/PC running iTunes then that would be a definite step back (IMO) from the current Apple TV.

What I've suggested in the past is that a Time Capsule-like device could be used as a standalone iTunes server that could also be accessed and configured with a Mac/PC, iPhone/iPod/iPad, or Apple TV. Thus, the Time Capsule could be the central repository for content and you would either stream or copy from that server to your other playback devices.
 
I agree going to such a limited on board storage is a step back. I was hoping for something bigger / cheaper that could at least take all my music (as can the current) on board to give AirTunes server ability. Losing that will be a blow for me.

But non-centralized storage operating without a PC/Mac is something they could have offered for the AppleTV, iPod, iPhone etc. long ago but haven't. They don't need it for the iTV (even if the geekier segment of the fanbase would like it) and its easier for everyone else (including Apple and all the developers) if it remains as it is with all the various iDevices needing an active iTunes instance to update and access media which isn't held locally.

If we're into wishlist rather than what we'll get I'd love an iServer. Stripped down ultra low power MacMini with hot swap 4 bay RAID drives and an inability to do anything other than run the latest version of iTunes (but a much more affordable price than the MacMini as a result).

Would be great for my needs but never going to happen.
 
really no need for storage on the :apple:TV, I have 3 and do not use the internal storage, but stream to each device from my iTunes. All my data kept central. The only time I need to download is when I send that device a rented movie.
 
ATV to the world

The introduction of a new ATV must be in context to the existing, broader market and where it is headed. It will succeed or fail in how well competing with anything else that presents media on any screen you have.

Consider the Samsung 55" LED HDTV for instance:
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-UN55C...ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=tv&qid=1275943715&sr=1-3

Right out of the box it offers access to eBay, RallyCast, Twitter, Flickr, YouTube, Yahoo! Weather, Yahoo! News, USA Today Sports, not to mention Amazon video on demand, etc.

Amazon is a good example, as at least in video a direct competitor to iTunes. Movies and other video content can be rented or purchased, downloaded or retained on Amazon's servers. Thus cloud computing. And not a device to buy, figure out, or plug in; it is included and simple to use. One shouldn't overlook the simplicity factor, and that many customers may opt for the easiest solution over technically best.

With iTunes and Hulu I've grown accustomed to watching what I want when I want. With iTunes one has a built-in DVR of sorts. But it is not as simple or adept as that offered via cable or satellite providers. One reason conventional television remains king may be in no more than ease, in that one program flows into the next as seamlessly, and as simple to choose among them. Such as Hulu are better at having what you want right now, with thus far far fewer commercials, but otherwise simply are not as easy to use. In short, and this applies to everyone, media remains very fragmented, certainly not all together, and ease of access various considerably.

VUDU is also built into a number of HDTVs and BlueRay players. Or available as a low-cost stand-alone box. iTunes competes with them as well. VUDU does offer full 1080p. There are of course bandwidth requirements, but all providers bump up against this. Most basic DSL connections are sufficient for streaming SD content, anything more will require an urban address and better connection. Enough people capable and willing and bitching to their ISP's and something might happen.

I've read this MacBook is not capable of dealing with 1080p media. News to me, and maybe true. But whether that or ISP's with a 20th century mentality, no reason not to offer and promote such capability. This is a chicken and egg story, with the happy ending for those looking to the future rather than some present technical limitations. If waiting for everyone to catch up at once, iTunes and other online services would still be in a holding pattern.

As before, it would make sense for the capability of local storage. As it stands, one may not always have a proper connection, or any connection at all. Cloud computing only works with reliable high bandwidth connections. And some may just prefer to have and control their files. It can easily work either way. Anyone having purchased any number of movies via iTunes will shortly have realized the limitations of 160GB of storage on the present ATV. So it will not matter if a new ATV only offers 16GB for buffering; any media files should obviously reside elsewhere, if for no other reason than backup redundancy. This implies streaming to the device, or a USB or better connection to external drives.

VUDU offers a good case in point of a good complement of various input/output options. Apple is known for dropping certain standards before people thought they were ready, then proved correct. But if forsaking some legacy functionality, they must still provide necessary options for proper video and audio.

If a new ATV retails for $99, great. A truly capable one might sell for appreciably more. Figure this: if $99, and retaining wi-fi, adding 1TB of external storage could cost only $99 more. That is appreciably more than 160GB presently offered at $229. If Apple is smart this will be a seamless plug and play scenario whether one wishes local storage or streaming, or from the cloud.

As for streaming, I've had good results streaming media via wi-fi from a TC to this MacBook. Even Apple's HD media at 720p. The Samsung HDTV mentioned is capable of wireless DLNA. Meaning in principle that one needn't deal with mini-DVI ports and cables, and that on your computer can be seamlessly mirrored to the HDTV big screen.

No idea how this affects Hulu and others, but the implications should be clear. All content providers are justly concerned with copyright protection and being properly paid. They are also operating in a world and market increasingly online and synced, expecting anything to be available at the press of a button. Movies from iTunes with DRM will play on external drives, still linked to iTunes. There are other scenarios possible, but if rightly concerned with piracy, nevertheless any content provider making it difficult to access their wares on any device or screen of the customers choosing will shortly find themselves quite out of the picture. The ability to do this easily will be expected.

Netflix might as easily have an app on the new ATV as any iPad. Their online content is minuscule compared to iTunes. There is simply no comparison, and Netflix would have to seriously step up its game to compete head to head in such a market.

From Apple's standpoint they probably needn't be as concerned with a Netflix or Amazon, or with a VUDU or Google, or even if providers such as ABC wish to be intransigent. All are potential competitors. From the standpoint of the ultimate user, the customer, the wish and expectation is for a simple, enjoyable experience. The provider that can combine as many of these disparate pieces together into an understandable whole with the least hassle and best price should prevail. iTunes already combines many of the elements. Apple shines in innovation and attractive interfaces. There is no reason they cannot do this.

The new ATV should not only be highly capable and simple to use, but look forward to where this market is heading: what you want, when you want, where you want. Otherwise DOA on arrival.
 
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