The 2016-2017 Football Thread

[takao]

i simply don't understand why arsenal always seem to capitulate literally within minutes as soon as Bayern puts the throttle down.

Bayern usually doesn't win by such margins in the league (except HSV and Werder Bremen... which continue to run into massacres). Lower level teams like Ingoldstadt and Darmstadt don't capitulate so easily in comparison to Arsenal.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

i simply don't understand why arsenal always seem to capitulate literally within minutes as soon as Bayern puts the throttle down.

Bayern usually doesn't win by such margins in the league (except HSV and Werder Bremen... which continue to run into massacres). Lower level teams like Ingoldstadt and Darmstadt don't capitulate so easily in comparison to Arsenal.

To be fair, I think the red card and the award of the penalty did change the dynamics of the match. Certainly, Arsenal lost their shape as a result and posed no threat whatsoever subsequently.

And there is an argument to be made that the 'big' decisions went against Arsenal.

However, they are well-paid - and relatively successful professionals - and should have done better. Many teams defend well and doggedly with ten men, and can prove surprisingly difficult to beat.

What bothers me is the perceived brittleness, - the lack of mental toughness which is what fuels a fighting spirit - and the inability to change one's shape in response to unexpected disaster on the pitch. To my mind, this is something that Arsenal do need to address, within themselves. And blaming Mr Wenger is all too lazy and all too easy. Some of the senior players need to take responsibility on the field, too.

I just watched the highlights of BM/Arsenal match, OMG! My Arsenal friends are having a seizure right now.

Yes, a defeat - even a comprehensive defeat - is one thing, - there is no shame in being outclassed and outfought - but abject surrender, utter capitulation, and complete humiliation, are something else entirely.

 

[takao]

To be fair, I think the red card and the award of the penalty did change the dynamics of the match. Certainly, Arsenal lost their shape as a result and posed no threat whatsoever subsequently.

And there is an argument to be made that the 'big' decisions went against Arsenal.

in Munich there were a few fouls which went in Arsenal favour. Nobody complained because Bayern won 5-1. At the end of the day a CL knockoutstage is 2x90 minutes and not 1x45 minutes.

I watched the replay of the foul and IMHO it was pretty clear. Koscielny doesn't even _try_ to go for the ball, he simply went for the opposite player. Which in the box usually ends bad.
That he was the last player was unfortunate for him & Arsenal but looking at the foul not really surprising

Also Bayern wasn't even going 100% in the first half so i think the analysis from some that "both were equally matched first half" is pointless. If one side is 4 goals up then i don't expect them to give everything.

However, they are well-paid - and relatively successful professionals - and should have done better. Many teams defend well and doggedly with ten men, and can prove surprisingly difficult to beat.

What bothers me is the perceived brittleness, - the lack of mental toughness which is what fuels a fighting spirit - and the inability to change one's shape in response to unexpected disaster on the pitch. To my mind, this is something that Arsenal do need to address, within themselves. And blaming Mr Wenger is all too lazy and all too easy. Some of the senior players need to take responsibility on the field, too.

Perhaps it's something which over the last years simply wasn't activly covered under training. Mental strength and winning spirit needs to be infused over a long time to work. And also needs the right players. IMHO Wenger's player selection takes little focus on that point.

How often do you see Bayern, Dortmund, Atletico, Real etc. completely surrender after a red card ? Never

 

[Fizzoid]

i simply don't understand why arsenal always seem to capitulate literally within minutes as soon as Bayern puts the throttle down.

It's been said for a number of seasons now that Arsenal aren't a strong team mentally

 

[balamw]

Didn't have a chance to watch that one, but if there is a team that can come back from that it's Barcelona at Camp Nou.

Did I call it or what?

I didn't get to watch it but followed on Twitter.

B

 

[pachyderm]

Confounded as to why folks are so impressed with the Barcelona FC win today. They beat PSG, a mediocre French side from the mediocre French League, especially compared to Barca, 6-1. You shouldn't be whooping and hollerin' about 6-1, you should be screaming why didn't you win by 10? I can't see how rooting for them is even remotely interesting or entertaining. The only other team that could hold a candle to them is Real Madrid, another incredibly wealthy team that buys whichever player Barca doesn't get their hooks into first. La Liga is rife with teams that wouldn't even be good in the English League Championship, so there isn't even a surprise outcome for them in regular league play that often. The only fit opponent for them would be themselves. The end result of any of their matches is so predictable it's like watching the Harlem Globetrotters.

So this result today is meaningless.

Rant over.

P.S. Barca fans you have no real, serious, rebuttal.

 

[balamw]

P.S. Barca fans you have no real, serious, rebuttal.

It's the first leg that was surprising. Barca being beaten 4-0 by anyone, much less in UCL play, is a real story and coming back from that pounding is a real achievement.

If Arsenal had been able to dig their way out of the 5-1 thrashing Bayern put to them in the first leg it would have equally been amazing.

The drama here was that Cavani's goal meant they needed to actually win in aggregate as the tie would have sent PSG through.

They only got through by the skin of their teeth.

B

 

[pachyderm]

It's the first leg that was surprising. Barca being beaten 4-0 by anyone, much less in UCL play, is a real story and coming back from that pounding is a real achievement.

If Arsenal had been able to dig their way out of the 5-1 thrashing Bayern put to them in the first leg it would have equally been amazing.

The drama here was that Cavani's goal meant they needed to actually win in aggregate as the tie would have sent PSG through.

They only got through by the skin of their teeth.

B

[doublepost=1489059921][/doublepost]

 

[JamesMike]

Was not happy for the 1-1 tie for my Man U team.

 

[twietee]

Wait, did I just read a rant from somebody following the Barkley's money league? A league where even the mediocre teams get so much money they don't even know how to spend it in a meaningful way? Except for convulted, overestimated squads? Where the top teams still have a problem to avoid abysmal international results on a daily basis?

I can see that somebody like that would write a rant about another super wealthy team that at least knows how to spend money and show top-notch football every now and then. You know, like a team that, after being beat 0-4 before (which is even a worse result than 1-5), actually tries to fight back in a meaningful way instead of receiving a 1-5 beating once again..



Més que un club!

 

[Apple fanboy]

Was not happy for the 1-1 tie for my Man U team.

They have the away goal so I think they will be alright.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

They have the away goal so I think they will be alright.

Perhaps.

We shall see.

 

[JamesMike]

There were a lot of postponed matches this weekend.

 

[Apple fanboy]

There were a lot of postponed matches this weekend.

I wish ours was!
Loosing to Bournemouth is not great. But typical of our season.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I wish ours was!
Loosing to Bournemouth is not great. But typical of our season.

Yes, but Bournemouth are better than most people seem to realise, and - on a good day - can inflict damage on almost any team.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Yes, but Bournemouth are better than most people seem to realise, and - on a good day - can inflict damage on almost any team.

True. But on a bad day we can lose to anyone!

 

[Scepticalscribe]

True. But on a bad day we can lose to anyone!

Best try not to make a habit of it, then......

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Liverpool finally beat a "lesser" team, though there were a few hairy moments and they had to come from behind to do it. It's all about narrative though - had Chelsea won in the same exact manner the press would have called the performance the 'mark of champions'. Instead it's all about how shaky 'Pool are against teams that sit back.

Meanwhile, in Columbus, the season is off to a rather lame start, with a 0-0 home draw against Chicago followed by a rather limp 3-1 loss away to Houston. Not much evidence that Things have improved in the off-season.

Confounded as to why folks are so impressed with the Barcelona FC win today. They beat PSG, a mediocre French side from the mediocre French League, especially compared to Barca, 6-1. You shouldn't be whooping and hollerin' about 6-1, you should be screaming why didn't you win by 10? I can't see how rooting for them is even remotely interesting or entertaining. The only other team that could hold a candle to them is Real Madrid, another incredibly wealthy team that buys whichever player Barca doesn't get their hooks into first. La Liga is rife with teams that wouldn't even be good in the English League Championship, so there isn't even a surprise outcome for them in regular league play that often. The only fit opponent for them would be themselves. The end result of any of their matches is so predictable it's like watching the Harlem Globetrotters.

So this result today is meaningless.

Rant over.

P.S. Barca fans you have no real, serious, rebuttal.

..it's quite funny that Barca followed up this allegedly epic win with a limp loss against a La Liga nobody today. Two steps forward, one step back. To be fair, Neymar looked seriously good. But the rest of the team were just OK.

I feel like the magic of Barcelona of yore has worn off, and we are left with a spectacularly talented, unbelievably rich team of hysterical overdogs.

I have defended Suarez as much as my conscience permits on numerous occasions before but the fact is, he dived. Barca cheated for at least one of their crucial goals, and if PSG were anything better than historically awful they would have knocked the Catalans out. While the tie was a record-breaker on paper, PSG could have lost to Lincoln City, Rangers or my own currently hapless Columbus Crew - they were that bad. Iceland would probably have been able to manage the same scoreline as Barca. PSG looked absolutely terrified throughout the match.

 

[pachyderm]

Yes, but Bournemouth are better than most people seem to realise, and - on a good day - can inflict damage on almost any team.

they have one of the best "unknown" managers too!

 

[Apple fanboy]

I fear the wheels might be about to come off the wagon as Spurs look to secure a Champions League spot.
Harry Kane leaves on crutches and could miss the rest of the season. I think he is a big player for them and will be sorely missed.
I'm sure the other teams in the pack are gutted!

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I fear the wheels might be about to come off the wagon as Spurs look to secure a Champions League spot.
Harry Kane leaves on crutches and could miss the rest of the season. I think he is a big player for them and will be sorely missed.
I'm sure the other teams in the pack are gutted!

Perhaps.

But - seriously - they should be. It is always a tragedy when a gifted young footballer suffers an injury from which he might never fully recover.

Notwithstanding that, the more intelligent ones might think about whether their own squads are similarly over dependent on a single (if exceptionally gifted) player.

Well, if anything happened to Zlatan Ibrahimovic to remove him from the squad on a regular basis (not just suspensions, but a serious injury which would render him hors de combat for a while), I suspect that Manchester United would also suffer, as they are extraordinarily reliant on him.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Perhaps.

But - seriously - they should be. It is always a tragedy when a gifted young footballer suffers an injury from which he might never fully recover.

Notwithstanding that, the more intelligent ones might think about whether their own squads are similarly over dependent on a single (if exceptionally gifted) player.

Well, if anything happened to Zlatan Ibrahimovic to remove him from the squad on a regular basis (not just suspensions, but a serious injury which would render him hors de combat for a while), I suspect that Manchester United would also suffer, as they are extraordinarily reliant on him.

Agree. Worrying for them as he is out of contract in May. A move to LA would make him the highest paid US player ever.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Agree. Worrying for them as he is out of contract in May. A move to LA would make him the highest paid US player ever.

They got him on a free transfer - although, obviously, his wages cost them a pretty penny. However, given how well he has performed for them - by far their most influential player, physically strong, a brilliant reader of the gem, a man gifted with leadership and motivational qualities - a superb scorer of goals (he has scored more than almost everyone else put together for MU) - he is worth every penny of his wages - and more.

He has performed brilliantly for them - and owes them nothing. (The contrast with Paul Pogba - who cost a serious fortune and has been far less visible or influential - is very instructive and very, very telling).

In truth, although - obviously, as an Arsenal supporter, it would be nice to see Spurs stutter a little, - I would be very sorry to see a genuinely gifted and talented - and decent - footballer like Harry Kane suffer the consequences of a serious injury. Those injuries can take a long time to heal, - and can also leave you permanently vulnerable in the area where you were injured - and he is a terrific young player.

 

[JamesMike]

My Man U team is out of FA cup, not a good idea to play Chelsea with ten players.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

My Man U team is out of FA cup, not a good idea to play Chelsea with ten players.

And an even less good idea to pick stupid and petty and vicious little fights so that you are reduced to ten players against Chelsea.