Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
The 2023-2024 Football Thread
- Thread starter Scepticalscribe
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I fail to understand much of the sustained criticism that has been directed at, or levelled at, Gareth Southgate; to my mind, he is one of the very best managers that England has ever had, and his record speaks for itself, surpassing those of all of his predecessors, with the possible exception of Sir Alf Ramsey.
I think it’s seeing good quality players put in really poor performances that upset the fans. But last night, especially the first half we looked much better. Running off the ball, looking towards the goal not back at our own.
Fodden in particular looked more like the City player I know.
The fans expect too much.
These days, most international teams are nowhere nearly as good as (let alone as well resourced, or well trained) as the best of the national teams in the best of the respective domestic leagues.
Above all, the very best of the domestic teams play to a system - a well-drilled, well-oiled, well trained - system, -
which is manifestly not the case with international football, where there is neither the time nor the bottomless resources to train individuals to play to any such system.
Moreover, an international manager can expect to receive (or choose, or select) players from a number of teams, teams that are playing a number of different systems where the players are well used to playing with one another; with time pressure (and demands from entitled and intolerant fans, not to mention the media) he is still required to somehow craft, or create, a functioning and coherent team from several disparate (and not always equally talented or gifted) individuals.
Thus, - unlike in the past - international teams tend to play at a less sophisticated (and less regimented) level than do the best of the domestic club teams.
Given the resources (not least, the actual individual players) at his disposal, I think that Southgate has done brilliantly since his appointment as manager; his teams have reached the finals (not just the semi-finals, which would be an already exceptionally impressive achievement) of two international tournaments, and done so in the complete absence of scandal, idiocy or controversy on the part of the team or officials.
Last edited:
Oh his record speaks for itself. When he does decide to step down (most likely after the tournament), I expect he will have a number of suitors.
His record - both as a man and as a manager - speaks for itself, and I would class myself a fan, which was very much not the case with several of his predecessors.
Who do you reckon will win the Euro cup on Sunday? England was my home for several years in the past so I am hoping they win.
My money is on Spain but anything can happen. I was pleasantly surprised by England yesterday, but still impressed with Spain and I hope for a good match.
Spain is totally my favs! Sorry England, you will cry on Sunday.
3-1 or 4-2 to Spain.
England played well in the first half, agreed, but, from what I could see, the Netherlands played well (indeed, better) in the second half.
Actually, I was bracing myself for extra time, and possibly penalties, as the match drew to a close at 90 minutes.
Had it not been for the inspired substitution that brought Watkins onto the pitch (which made possible his stunning goal), I doubt that many would seriously attempt to argue that England were the better team in the second half.
England have been riding their luck all tournament. Bellingham's injury time goal, Watkins injury time goal. Results matter of course they do but it is how the team have achieved those results is what matters to many. England fan's come in two groups, those who want value for their ticket money meaning they want to see good entertaining football with a fair amount of goals regardless of the result and those who are only concerned about a win meaning they do not care how that win is achieved.
The biggest problem with international football is that due to the limited amount of international games there are, international managers do not want to show their hand to early. So much tactical analysis is done now with every game being recorded and then re-watched time and time again by backroom staff so they can find ways to beat the opposition. Southgate and England in this Euro's is a very very good example of that. He does not have a clear team formation or strategy which means it is very difficult for opposition managers to formulate a plan to defeat him.
A few day's ago Gary Lineker in an interview he gave about England said the team does not want to peak to early. This implies that getting through the group stage and the last 16 is all pre-thought out tactics. do not play good football because you do not want to show your hand to the opposition teams who would be able to counter the teams formations and if you do happen to get through to the later stages which is when the manager should then step up a gear and get the team peaking.
A win is a win but if England do win the Euro's there will be many who will see it as an embarrassment due to how poorly England played not only in the group stage but in the last 16 and the quarter final. The ONLY game showing signs of England playing at their potential was the semi final. Is that really how fans want to see England win?
The biggest problem with international football is that due to the limited amount of international games there are, international managers do not want to show their hand to early. So much tactical analysis is done now with every game being recorded and then re-watched time and time again by backroom staff so they can find ways to beat the opposition. Southgate and England in this Euro's is a very very good example of that. He does not have a clear team formation or strategy which means it is very difficult for opposition managers to formulate a plan to defeat him.
A few day's ago Gary Lineker in an interview he gave about England said the team does not want to peak to early. This implies that getting through the group stage and the last 16 is all pre-thought out tactics. do not play good football because you do not want to show your hand to the opposition teams who would be able to counter the teams formations and if you do happen to get through to the later stages which is when the manager should then step up a gear and get the team peaking.
A win is a win but if England do win the Euro's there will be many who will see it as an embarrassment due to how poorly England played not only in the group stage but in the last 16 and the quarter final. The ONLY game showing signs of England playing at their potential was the semi final. Is that really how fans want to see England win?
I beg to differ.
If England win the tournament, nobody - well, hardly anyone - will feel the slightest embarrassment at this outcome; instead, I would imagine that they will celebrate the victory.
Fans won't care (much) about the aesthetics of football if England win the tournament.
It's not a systematic break down of all the games but there were a lot of park the bus games in the Euro.
I really don't fault that, it's not fair and plain stupid to ask teams with less technical and experienced players to play an open game.
But it results in the higher ranking teams usually producing very dull games passing around trying to see an opening if they can't get that early goal.
The quarters and the semi finals did produce much improved games.
Like I said, there are two groups of fans, those they do not care how a team wins just as long as they win and those who want a win but done so in the correct manner (good style of play, good player positioning, good playing skill, good sporting behavior, good integrity). This is why England fails in many things it participates in because there are still many members of the public who are still of the belief that there is the right way to winning and the wrong way to winning. As outdate this belief maybe there are still many who follow that belief and thus expect their sports people to be of the same belief as well.
We such sporting behavior in golf where a player hits the ball and is seen to be going out of bounds but hit's a tree or a stone in water and it bounces back onto the green into a favorable position to the golfer. we then see the golfer give an apologetic sign to the opposition golfer as a way of saying 'sorry for my good fortune'.
We also see the same in tennis when both players are on a rally and one player hits the ball into the net only for it to bounce over the net onto the other players side like a dead ball because all the power has been taken out of the ball from hitting the net giving the opposing player no chance to even attempt at a return of the ball. We then see the player who won the point raise their hand/racket in some kind of apologetic motion as to say 'sorry for my good fortune'.
Such actions from players are admired by those who follow the sport but yet when such things happen in football the player who is on the receiving end of the good fortune runs around in absolute joy of a goal being scored. They do not acknowledge that their goal was because of some good fortune. Footballers and many of their supporting fans appear to relish in the misfortune of others which is contradictory to that of many many other sports.
I won't feel embarrassed either. I was a bit disappointed by the early games admittedly, but that is football and England have improved as the tournament has progressed. They thoroughly deserve to be in the final and will have a very tough match against Spain. I felt like Southgate was struggling with the strategy early on and giving Kane far too much game time and not bringing on Watkins soon enough, but he appears to have adapted his thinking to how England have been playing and now there is an improved confidence.
Not being overly confident for the final, but if England do win it, I will be very happy with how they have done it, come on England!!
After all that drama last season, looks like Jadon Sancho and ETH have squashed their mutual beef. I don't know what that means for Sancho's long term future at United, but he's back in the squad and taking part in preseason training. I'm sure everyone will be happy to put that nonsense behind them.
We (Sweden) lost against France with 2-1 - crap, we had 1-1 and a good game.
But from what I've heard, it doesn't matter. It's about the head-to-head meetings that decide anyway in the group who will qualify to European Championships 2025
France are the clear winner in this qualification group, and then it's between us and England, and Ireland are in the bottom of the group.
We will play against England on tuesday. If we win, we join France and are qualified to the Championship too. We played 1-1 on Wembley earlier.
If we loose, England takes that place. But there's some play-off that can take the looser to the European Championships 2025 anyway.
Good to see long time injured players coming back in good shape though.
One woman have had 4 cruciate ligament injuries in one knee, after another, and now she's back in good form! Incredible! Football and knees & feets pay a big price in this sport 😱
But from what I've heard, it doesn't matter. It's about the head-to-head meetings that decide anyway in the group who will qualify to European Championships 2025
France are the clear winner in this qualification group, and then it's between us and England, and Ireland are in the bottom of the group.
We will play against England on tuesday. If we win, we join France and are qualified to the Championship too. We played 1-1 on Wembley earlier.
If we loose, England takes that place. But there's some play-off that can take the looser to the European Championships 2025 anyway.
Good to see long time injured players coming back in good shape though.
One woman have had 4 cruciate ligament injuries in one knee, after another, and now she's back in good form! Incredible! Football and knees & feets pay a big price in this sport 😱
!?!? Gotta wonder if there is a certain point where they can't repair them anymore... ?
Man United have there own merry go round of embarrassments just like England does with Southgate. Sancho did not like how he was treated by ETH and said he will not play for the team if he is manager. Months and months of disquiet about ETH being sacked by the club due to the continuing dire season performance. He wins the FAC Cup and suddenly everything is alright with him. He overseas one of the worst season performances the club has every had, he has a player who said he would not work with him and yet not only is he given an extension of his contract now the player who said he would not work for him is back in the squad. It is utterly ridiculous what is going on at United.
Absolutely, I've known some and heard some stories that ended people's football adventures.
But the evolution moves forward, in both football and in the medical science.
I wonder how much the extension had to do with a lack of available candidates rather than happy with his performance.