The 2023-2024 Football Thread

[Lord Blackadder]

I hope there are repercussions at the Spanish FA….it was clear before that something wasn’t right and this only reinforces it. It’s an old boys club.

Some other random observations from the weekend:

Man Utd got the result their performance deserved, unlike last week. ETH got off to a poor start last season and then rapidly got things together, so maybe we’ll see a similar trajectory.

Liverpool’s scramble for a midfield signing finally landed Wataru Endo from Stuttgart. On Friday he was in Liverpool and by Saturday he was on the pitch filling in for Mac Allister. He must have felt dazed but he dealt with it well. I hope he pans out. He is not the signing fans we’re hoping for, but we need the bodies in midfield and even if he is just average I think it will improve the team.

Speaking of Mac Allister, the ref was technically within his rights to send him off but it was an ‘orange’ card, and I hope he can avoid a three game ban.

Funny to see Caicedo concede a penalty, I couldn’t help chuckling at that. Major confidence-inspiring win for West Ham. Chelsea continue to be Chelsea - bags of talent but you never know what you’ll get in any given day. They are so inefficient with their resources.

Everton are in deep, deep trouble. They are on a relegation trajectory every season unless something changes in how the club is being run.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Mason did not commit the offences, I am satisfied Mason did not commit the acts..... if that is true then why is United getting rid of him? That statement is not going to go down well with some Women's groups because the club are basically saying that Greenwood did not commit the offences against the female victim.

Apparently Man Utd suits aren't dull enough to conflate a narrow legal reality with...actual reality. Again and again we are confronted with instances of sexual abuse of women that may - or may not - be legally actionable, but are deeply uncomfortable to witness, not only for women but also for corporate and institutional employers...the Spanish FA imbroglio is a timely example of this.

In other words, legal innocence of a crime does not necessarily mean you are off the hook with your employers if the circumstances paint you in a bad light. Greenwood's legal saga has generated a lot of bad press and his continuation at Man Utd would have fed that negative image going forward. He'll get signed somewhere. Saudi Arabia, here we come...

 

[Silencio]

"Cleared of all charges" does not mean the same thing as "found not guilty in a court of law". Such transparent PR-speak from United and Greenwood. It's apparent their internal investigation was a sham all along, being led by people with a vested interest in bringing Greenwood back into the squad.

At least this whole sordid affair has proven that public outcry does still have an impact. Now if people can muster enough outrage to get Antony dumped and Joel and Avram Glazer to finally agree to sell the club, we'll be on to something.

On the pitch: yes, another slow start for United. No striker, not enough quality depth in defensive midfield, whatever Ten Haag planned out in deploying Casemiro, Mount, and Bruno together, it looks awful so far. Garnacho and Antony both need to be dropped — the latter for far more than just his poor performances on the pitch. ETH has to dig deep into his tactical and motivational toolbag now. Forest at home is a good chance for a bounce-back, but there are no easy matches in this league.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

At least this whole sordid affair has proven that public outcry does still have an impact. Now if people can muster enough outrage to get Antony dumped and Joel and Avram Glazer to finally agree to sell the club, we'll be on to something.

A reminder that fans really do have tremendous power - if they can present a unified front to the club and/or sporting institutions. The whole system absolutely depends on fans constantly shelling out boatloads of money for tickets, merch, and TV. Clubs will quickly abandon any player, sponsor, or behavior that threatens that.

Ownership is obviously a more complicated issue, since asset-stripping, delusional, oligarchic, or otherwise bad-intentioned owners can and do hang around even as clubs collapse around them. But even there fans have a lot of power in pressuring for change. IF they can work together.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Attired in their awful away strip of grotesque dayglo lemon yellow with hideous black swirls, Arsenal trudge off at half time (against Crystal Palace) with the score still at nil all.

They missed two decent chances (one of them very decent).

Now, to my mind, Nketiah strikes me as being quite a good striker when others play well around him, and he does not have to shoulder the sole responsibility for putting the ball in the net on behalf of the team.

Yes, it is early days: Nevertheless, I confess that I am still mystified by the purchase of Havertz, and by the presence of Havertz in the squad, let alone as a starting player in the team. What on earth does he bring to the proverbial table, or team?

Perhaps he will prove me wrong.

 

[Sal09]

Penalty

 

[Sal09]

My Captain 1-0

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Penalty

Whew.

Well done.

My Captain 1-0

Yes, Captain, my Captain.

 

[Sal09]

How is that a 2nd yellow card.

These referees wtf

 

[Scepticalscribe]

How is that a 2nd yellow card.

Hmmm

These referees wtf

No, not quite.

Okay, a soft enough yellow, but, this is not the ref's fault.

Arsenal were already trying everyone's patience with some silly tactics (time wasting - and we know the rules of the game have changed so as to punish time wasting more severely), and were going to get hit - hard - with something of the sort for their faffing around earlier.

Often, a card is given for something that should have been punished earlier; a case of some sort of belated justice.

Besides, any player already on a yellow needs to pay close heed to his surroundings, use what is left of his brain, and not be stupid enough to incur a second yellow. That is stupidity of the sort that should be declared illegal. Tomiyashu should have been extra vigilant, given that he had already received a yellow card for pure idiocy when time wasting.

In any case, I cannot understand why he wasn't hauled off after the first yellow, and where is Arteta with the subs?

Time wasting with 30 minutes to go is a poor strategy, and is not a good sign for the team; one can understand it as you approach 90 minutes, or have several extra minutes to play, but not with 30 minutes to play.

The team - dawdling though they were - are clearly not firing on all - or any, or most - cylinders.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Arsenal are making heavy weather of this, which is not to take away from Palace, who have been excellent.

 

[Sal09]

Get In ARSENAL.

3 Points and a hard fought win.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Get In ARSENAL.

3 Points and a hard fought win.

A hard fought (well, it was an away match) and a very welcome (if not entirely deserved) three points for us.

Very good defending at the end.

Palace could - with some justice - feel aggrieved that they didn't manage to claim a point.

 

[daneoni]

Re- Greenwood charges were dropped. If he went to court he may have been found guilty. Unlike Mendy who actually went to trial and was cleared.

Either way no club is gonna touch you with a bargepole once you've been formally associated with a sexual crime or domestic abuse.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

A nervy win for the Arsenal. Welcome to the Red Card Club.

Re- Greenwood charges were dropped. If he went to court he may have been found guilty. Unlike Mendy who actually went to trial and was cleared.

The elephant in the room is that the only way such behavior is punished is when the victims choose to go to the authorities and subject themselves to the agony of criminal legal proceedings and a lifetime of invasive toxic hate from a subset of the public - without any guarantee that their allegations will be legally proven. That takes an unbelievable amount of courage and nobody should be expected to have to make that choice.

In that context, are we surprised a lot of these cases just evaporate after the initial allegations or partway through a trial? It is relatively easy to threaten or intimidate victims of abuse (male and female, don't forget Barry Bennell) into silence, or to cast doubt on their testimony.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

A nervy win for the Arsenal. Welcome to the Red Card Club.

Well, yes.

A soft red card, yes, but Tomiyasu was already skating on rather thin ice as a result of his earlier idiotic yellow.

Actually, I do not understand why he wasn't substituted once the original yellow had been given.

The elephant in the room is that the only way such behavior is punished is when the victims choose to go to the authorities and subject themselves to the agony of criminal legal proceedings and a lifetime of invasive toxic hate from a subset of the public - without any guarantee that their allegations will be legally proven. That takes an unbelievable amount of courage and nobody should be expected to have to make that choice.

In that context, are we surprised a lot of these cases just evaporate after the initial allegations or partway through a trial? It is relatively easy to threaten or intimidate victims of abuse (male and female, don't forget Barry Bennell) into silence, or to cast doubt on their testimony.

Excellent post.

Tonight, Barney Ronay has a terrific piece in the Guardian entitled: "Manchester United’s lack of moral leadership on Greenwood is depressing", which is well worth reading.

 

[HandsomeDanNZ]

Re- Greenwood charges were dropped. If he went to court he may have been found guilty. Unlike Mendy who actually went to trial and was cleared.

Either way no club is gonna touch you with a bargepole once you've been formally associated with a sexual crime or domestic abuse.

Whilst the charges were dropped, he's not innocent. The obvious (and very public) evidence shows that.
I think the way in which Man U have gone about getting rid of him is possibly a complicated situation, poorly handled from a PR perspective.
I'd say he likely had his lawyers agree to a release, only if they said they'd work to find him another gig and if they stated he was not a rapist, sexual predator, abuser or similar.
They then went on record and said he did nothing wrong but he's sorry for making mistakes. Weak.

There's no doubt that the public backlash was a factor - high profile women making public comments about never supporting the team again if he came back etc.
It's not good enough, but it's done. I doubt anyone outside the Middle east will want him.

 

[mrsmith1]

Fancy the chances of my team, Nottingham Forest, getting something from the trip to Old Trafford on Saturday. Seen both of Man United games this season and I’ve not been impressed. Bit of a soft underbelly in midfield

 

[Apple fanboy]

Fancy the chances of my team, Nottingham Forest, getting something from the trip to Old Trafford on Saturday. Seen both of Man United games this season and I’ve not been impressed. Bit of a soft underbelly in midfield

Good luck. I think Utd are going to struggle to keep pace with City and Arsenal this year. However they’ll probably be on par with Chelsea and Spurs.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Our defence has been boosted by the signing of Mavropanos today. I do wish we’d sign players I could spell without looking it up.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Alexis Mac Allister's red card against Bournemouth has been overturned. I think in, say, Spain, that judgement would have stood, but it was more yellow card than red.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Our defence has been boosted by the signing of Mavropanos today. I do wish we’d sign players I could spell without looking it up.

Ah, yes.

This one I do know.

Actually, it was Aubameyang for me (you can have absolutely no idea how often I had to look up his name so that I could spell it correctly when posting here, and not appear an illiterate idiot).

Anyway, good luck with Mavropanos (apart from standard errors, there is also the eternal hazard posed by that stupid spell-check; I keep meaning to turn that off).

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Alexis Mac Allister's red card against Bournemouth has been overturned. I think in, say, Spain, that judgement would have stood, but it was more yellow card than red.

I read that, and am not terribly surprised.

Returning to the topic of Mason Greenwood, Manchester United, and how they have handled this, Marina Hyde (who is a superb writer with an acerbic, biting pen) has written an excellent - and scathing - piece in today's (well, this evening's) Guardian which is well worth reading.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Alexis Mac Allister's red card against Bournemouth has been overturned. I think in, say, Spain, that judgement would have stood, but it was more yellow card than red.

It did look a bit harsh so I guess the right decision.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Ah, yes.

This one I do know.

Actually, it was Aubameyang for me (you can have absolutely no idea how often I had to look up his name so that I could spell it correctly when posting here, and not appear an illiterate idiot).

Anyway, good luck with Mavropanos (apart from standard errors, there is also the eternal hazard posed by that stupid spell-check; I keep meaning to turn that off).

I struggle with spelling anyway, so often have to look up footballers names. Then there are the ones who you can never remember the names of!