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The 2023-2024 Football Thread
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A potential 4 year ban if he is found guilty. Career ending.
...or as little as four weeks, depending on many factors. Not enough data to say, they haven't gotten results from the B sample yet. But it is a very serious charge, and Juve have previous form in this area.
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When it comes to takers of banned drugs, regardless of the sport, when ever I hear them or their representatives initially say 'It must have come from something I ate/drank that was contaminated and thus I had no idea.' always makes me think of Ben Johnson (Olympic sprinter) and Lance Armstrong (Tour de France cyclist) who both initially said their positive results must have come from contaminated food or drink but once their respective investigations were over, both were found to have taken the drugs deliberately, thus knowing exactly what they were doing but trying to fool the public from the start saying it must have been due to contaminated food or drink.
Pogba's statement has said the same thing, that his positive result must have come from contaminated food or drink. Time will tell.
Pogba's statement has said the same thing, that his positive result must have come from contaminated food or drink. Time will tell.
I actually feel bad for Pogba. Injuries have decimated his career over the past few years. When fit, engaged, on form, and in the right type of team, he was a very special player. The problem is most of those variables never lined up, especially during his time at United.
United should have never gone for him. He started off at United to begin with in the youth team but Ferguson saw a problem in him/with him and got rid of him even knowing the huge talent he had on his hands. I still say to this day Ferguson was right in what he did.
Doping rules are pretty strict, to the point that many legitimate medications can be flagged, and the list of banned substances is both long and sometimes not aligned between various anti-doping agencies. I am sympathetic with athletes up to a point on this because honest mistakes / grey area scenarios do happen - Mamadou Sakho's failed doping test being one example.
But yes, the Lance Armstrong affair (broke my heart and soured me on professional cycling for 15 years, I am just getting back into it now) is just the biggest example of athletes trying to wriggle out of it. And it can be hard to prove that an athlete knowingly took a banned substance.
That is why anti-doping agencies have had to take a tough stance - if it is in your body it's your responsibility.
Another player that could have had a much more dominant career, stunted by certain choices and bad luck.
He was the wrong player at the wrong time. He's the guy you bought to compete your squad, the "cherry on top" that makes the whole sundae sing. He's not the ice cream that does the heavy lifting or the banana that forms the solid foundation or whatever. He was the perfect cherry on top for France and for Juve at their best — or for United's FA Youth Cup winner for that matter, but United weren't there during his second stint at the club.
This underscores a major side-effect of Man Utd's screwy recruitment strategy in the post-Ferguson era: how many good players' careers have been derailed to some extent by their decision to play for Man Utd?
Many many years ago I remember seeing on TV an interview Sir Bobby Charlton was giving to some reporter about the club, his time as a player, the current manager and his thoughts about current recruitment and I will never forget one of the things he said 'It takes more than just skill to be a United player, skill alone does not get you wear the shirt'. This was true for many a year but since the private take over of the club and the retirement of Ferguson, those Charlton words mean nothing today. What do players see in wanting to be a United player? in my opinion money because they were known to pay the highest wages but this is at odds with the core belief of the club so naturally players time at United would be some of the worst they ever had.
Also a big change as well is the fan base. Many with the old ways of thinking have passed on and a new breed has taken over, the breed that wants success at any cost and this can have a knock on effect on how the club does it's business.
I don't think players are personally more mercenary than they were in decades past. But what has changed is that there is an incredible amount of money in the game now, and celebrity in the 2020s is a whole different animal from celebrity in the 1950s.
Today's players experience a LOT more pressure, temptation, and public exposure. And yes, fan voices have become louder, and the fans with extreme views are often the loudest. There's more at stake, and everyone's actions are more visible.
The idea of a simple local lad playing football, steadfastly loyal to the badge, having a pint after the match with fans and going back to the factory on Monday is ancient history. The world has gotten a lot more complicated.
Today's players experience a LOT more pressure, temptation, and public exposure. And yes, fan voices have become louder, and the fans with extreme views are often the loudest. There's more at stake, and everyone's actions are more visible.
The idea of a simple local lad playing football, steadfastly loyal to the badge, having a pint after the match with fans and going back to the factory on Monday is ancient history. The world has gotten a lot more complicated.
An excellent question, and one that offers considerable food for thought.
And, another question is - since Sir Alex Ferguson retired - how many players have improved after a spell at United, even the very good ones? How many players have departed from United a better player than when they joined the club? Does a stint at United improve you, as a player?
Among others, Klopp, Guardiola, Arteta each - in their very different ways - school and steer and guide and mentor their charges, and players develop and evolve and grow (to a greater or lesser extent) under them.
This has not been the case at United for a very long time.
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Since Ferguson retirement United have not given any manager a real chance of doing anything you've pointed out. It's a win mentality game now with managers, don't win anything for a couple of years and your gone. Out of the top 6 six, United, Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs have all regularly changed their manager except the top two who keep on winning things, which is Pep and Klopp. Klopp needs to win something this season otherwise he will be close to being kicked out the door in my opinion.
Arsenal don't "regularly" change their manager.
In general, the club prefers stability, and many, if not most, of their managers tend to remain with the club for years. By "years", I mean not just years, but sometimes, actual decades.
For example, George Graham served as Arsenal's manager (very successfully) from 1986 until 1995, - a time period of almost a decade - and eventually lost his position - not because of a poor run of football form, actually, Arsenal did very well under Graham, winning the PL, the FA Cup, and the League Cup (Carabou Cup) on a number of occasions - but, rather, following a Premier League inquiry which found that he had accepted an illegal payment of almost half a million pounds (a considerable sum at the time) from an agent from Norway following Arsenal's earlier acquisition of two Norwegian players for whom the agent had acted; as a result, Graham was banned from football for a year.
More recently, Arsène Wenger was with the club from 1996 (and they waited for him to see out a contract in Japan, remaining without formally appointing anyone as manager - not even as 'acting manager' - for several months until Wenger could eventually join them) until 2018, a period of 22 years.
Granted, Unai Emery's tenure was brief, but Mikel Arteta was appointed manager as long ago as December 2019, which means that he has held his current position for nearly four years, and is now on his fifth season with the club.
More to the point, I cannot see his appointment being terminated any time soon.
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Four years is a long tenure in football these days. I’d agree you aren’t a club that regularly changes manager.
Now the most lucrative contract in football (outside of Saudi Arabia), is being the sign writer for the Chelsea’s manager door.
Paint hardly gets to dry before the next one is coming in……😀
FSG would be insane to get rid of Klopp as long as he wants to stay. There is a question as to whether he can get through this rebuild and create a second trophy-winning team - few managers at this level have successfully done that in the 21st century outside a few at rich perennial winners like Ferguson's Man Utd, Real/Barca, Bayern - but that's a very high bar to judge him on.
Klopp's stock remains high with most fans, even if the shiny newness has worn off by now. He's not perfect (some of his touchline antics undoubtedly cross the line, no argument from me there), but I seriously doubt his successor will be better - possible, but the odds are enormously against it. And the moment he goes, FSG will be more exposed - Klopp generates a lot of goodwill that rubs off on the owners, even when they don't deserve it.
I'm enjoying the Klopp era while it lasts. Even if we never win another trophy under him it's been a big success and he's a larger than life personality without being fake or a caricature.
You've got to laugh at the UK press due to the way they write up the efforts of Jude Bellingham. Against Ukraine he was 'woeful' but against Scotland he was 'a masterclass'. The praises the UK press are giving him over the Scotland game is astronomical. If he such the 'super star' player the press are making him out to be then why was he not able to use his 'super star' skill against Ukraine? why? because Ukraine were able to contain him thus he was 'woeful'.
A 'super star' player will be able to shine in ANY game because they are supposedly THAT good hence the name given to them but Bellingham is nothing of the sort. The game against Ukraine proved that.
A 'super star' player will be able to shine in ANY game because they are supposedly THAT good hence the name given to them but Bellingham is nothing of the sort. The game against Ukraine proved that.
you could have just stopped there.
There are some really good sports journalists out there. If you want genuinely informed opinions on player performances, read stuff by people like Jonathan Wilson and Michael Cox. They are football tactics specialists and not just glib sensationalists or grouchy Proper Football Men.
And of course if you read anything in the tabloids that's our own fault. 🤣
Sweden have a few good players, but there are some holes in the squad. Austria have a good, solid team with Ralf Rangnick getting them to perform very well indeed.
Germany have experienced the temporary manager bounce, beating France. Klopp's agent has said he will not be available for Germany, which is a major relief. I think he will take that role at some point, just as Pep will someday, but not yet.
Also, Zlatan is barely out the door, and he had an outsized impact on the Sweden squad. They need time to build a new identity and like all small-to-medium-sized nations, they will always have an uneven talent balance across the squad.
Zlatan could turn around matches entirely on his own, and also made everybody around him much, much better. He is so missed in the Swedish team 🥲 🥰
It will take its time. Maybe until his sons, Maximilian och Vincent Ibrahimovic, getting their age up a bit. 17 and 15 now I think. But they both play in Milan already though 👍🏻👍🏻
Maguire is stuck between a rock and a hard place. He doesn't get much game time at club level because he's not good enough.
When he gets game time and makes an error due to said lack of game time. The media and fans scapegoat him.
He should've taken the West Ham offer. Now...until Jan at least i don't think he'll catch a break.
When he gets game time and makes an error due to said lack of game time. The media and fans scapegoat him.
He should've taken the West Ham offer. Now...until Jan at least i don't think he'll catch a break.
I agree he should have joined us. But he couldn’t quite get ‘enough’ of a pay off from Utd. Poor lad. What’s £6 million supposed to get him?
Southgate has gone all-in defending Maguire. And he's not entirely wrong...a lot of the abuse directed at Maguire is exaggerated and meme-culture-toxicity. And some of it is down to how Southgate chooses to employ him. One thing the English media and fans tend to do is find a hate figure and scapegoat them, while remaining blind to systemic issues (harder to criticize than a person). They're not alone in that, but Maguire has become a giant lightning rod.
At the end of the day he's what he always had been - a solid, but unexceptional (at the elite level) center back, who wins a lot of headers but lacks pace and is not ideally suited to playing with the ball at his feet all the time.
In an alternate universe he'd be playing for a side like West Ham, getting plenty of minutes, still earning England caps, playing the same as he is now but not getting half as much criticism. His move to Man Utd was a bad idea for all parties. Square peg, round hole. Though Maguire will earn a pile out of it anyway.
At the end of the day he's what he always had been - a solid, but unexceptional (at the elite level) center back, who wins a lot of headers but lacks pace and is not ideally suited to playing with the ball at his feet all the time.
In an alternate universe he'd be playing for a side like West Ham, getting plenty of minutes, still earning England caps, playing the same as he is now but not getting half as much criticism. His move to Man Utd was a bad idea for all parties. Square peg, round hole. Though Maguire will earn a pile out of it anyway.