The Amazon Effect

[polyphenol]

Ends up all too often Amazon cannot be avoided.

I live a long way from a city or even a large town. Lots of things simply cannot be bought anywhere local. Therefore, online shopping is pretty much essential.

But even when I find an online retailer other than Amazon which has what I want, all too often they deliver via Amazon. Hence it ends up feeling like a waste of time having even tried to get round Amazon. (I still do try, though.)

Luckily where I live pretty much all the delivery companies are from acceptable to good. Certainly wasn't the case where I used to live. But Evri, Amazon, Royal Mail, ParcelForce, DPD, and on and on - never have a real problem and usually very good.

 

[C0ncreteBl0nde]

I live in a rural town of approximately 12,000 people. This is the hub of a rural area surrounded by many smaller communities of a few hundred people each. We have no mall. The closest malls or Apple stores or any kind of "real" in person shopping is 4.5 hours to Portland, Oregon in one direction and 3 hours to Boise, Idaho in the other direction. And, since I live in the mountains, for many months at this time of year, the freeway is closed because of weather/accidents.

Until a few weeks ago when a TJ Maxx opened here, WALMART was the ONLY shopping choice for most items. I do not mean to sound like a snob, but I loathe Walmart for many reasons. I live very close to it so I DO use it's pharmacy for my medications because of it's convenience, but unless I need a greeting card (something I can't really buy online) the pharmacy is ALL I go to Walmart for...the rest of my shopping is done online. I have my groceries delivered.

There are many things about Amazon both as a merchandiser and political matters that I disagree with and I would truly like to be able to boycott them completely, but that's just not practical for me. Sometimes I need something in a hurry that is not available even from Walmart if I were to go there. Most of my reasons for wishing I could cut Amazon out completely have already been mentioned here. I have been a Prime member since 1996 and can remember the days when Amazon's merchandise was QUALITY and I actually got my Prime shipping in 2 days. Neither is the norm these days. But, unfortunately, I still need Amazon more than Amazon needs me.

 

[Huntn]

I live in a rural town of approximately 12,000 people. This is the hub of a rural area surrounded by many smaller communities of a few hundred people each. We have no mall. The closest malls or Apple stores or any kind of "real" in person shopping is 4.5 hours to Portland, Oregon in one direction and 3 hours to Boise, Idaho in the other direction. And, since I live in the mountains, for many months at this time of year, the freeway is closed because of weather/accidents.

Until a few weeks ago when a TJ Maxx opened here, WALMART was the ONLY shopping choice for most items. I do not mean to sound like a snob, but I loathe Walmart for many reasons. I live very close to it so I DO use it's pharmacy for my medications because of it's convenience, but unless I need a greeting card (something I can't really buy online) the pharmacy is ALL I go to Walmart for...the rest of my shopping is done online. I have my groceries delivered.

There are many things about Amazon both as a merchandiser and political matters that I disagree with and I would truly like to be able to boycott them completely, but that's just not practical for me. Sometimes I need something in a hurry that is not available even from Walmart if I were to go there. Most of my reasons for wishing I could cut Amazon out completely have already been mentioned here. I have been a Prime member since 1996 and can remember the days when Amazon's merchandise was QUALITY and I actually got my Prime shipping in 2 days. Neither is the norm these days. But, unfortunately, I still need Amazon more than Amazon needs me.

Amazon is a retail convenience that the competition has to catch up with. It’s not just a matter of convenience, but of spending time and fuel traveling to retail establishments for limited variety or not finding anything suitable.

 

[Herdfan]

Amazon is a retail convenience that the competition has to catch up with. It’s not just a matter of convenience, but of spending time and fuel traveling to retail establishments for limited variety or not finding anything suitable.

You're old enough to remember the Sears catalog. I made my Christmas list from them.

How Sears missed the boat on online is stunning. Of all the B&M's out there, they were best positioned to not only compete with Amazon, but to be Amazon.

 

[Clix Pix]

I definitely am old enough to remember the Sears Catalog and other catalogs! When they arrived at the house, regardless of time of year, I always pored over them with great interest even though as a child I certainly didn't need and/or couldn't use most of the items listed. Mostly I looked at the toys and the clothing offered for little girls, but my mother always said, "no, we're not ordering clothes for you from a catalog, we need to go to a store." I do suspect, though, that my parents probably did order a few items from the catalog, especially at Christmastime, and that some of those items were indeed for me, in the spring (birthday and Easter presents!) and in the winter, toys set under the Christmas tree as being from "Santa Claus."

Christmas seems to be so different now, so wholly commercialized, which makes me sad.

Herdfan, you are so right -- Sears was ideally positioned to have become the leader in online shopping and yet they definitely missed the boat in a huge, huge, disastrous way.

 

[C0ncreteBl0nde]

You're old enough to remember the Sears catalog. I made my Christmas list from them.

I certainly am old enough to remember the Christmas retail catalogs...how I loved the day they showed up in the mail! I would pour over them checking and circling this toy and that until they were dog-eared; a handy map for "Santa" to use and one I wish I still had for my grandchildren today.

 

[MacDaddyPanda]

These last few years I really try not buy from Amazon as much as I can. I will look at the brick and mortar online stores 1st to see if they have it locally. If not do they offer it online? If not then I'll branch off to Amazon or some other online store. When it comes to certain items like higher end electronics or accessories I always try to buy those either direct or from boutique electronics online retailers. Unless the brand is only selling it on Amazon which I've seen a few do. Some places I shop out of principle and to support the business and their philosophy. Even though it'd be cheaper elsewhere. And one store I shop exclusively for car care unless they don't carry it for one main reason. They ship it in the best way possible by carefully taping and sealing liquid containers. i.e. Car soaps and cleaning solutions. Other places just do the bare minimum and the product ends up damaged or spilled or leaking. So if anything Amazon has helped drive other stores to step up their online competitiveness. But at the same time it' has certainly screwed up the local stock model. It's now all warehoused for distribution from delivery trucks.

 

[KaliYoni]

How Sears missed the boat on online is stunning.

Sears was ideally positioned to have become the leader in online shopping and yet they definitely missed the boat in a huge, huge, disastrous way.

Y'all might enjoy this documentary about the rise and fall of Sears and Montgomery Ward from WTTW (Chicago's PBS station):

Mail Order Giants | Chicago Stories

The catalogs of Sears, Roebuck, and Co., and Montgomery Ward were icons of Americana, beloved and eagerly anticipated. More than just a collection of necessities and Christmas wishes, the items within the many pages of those catalogs reflected the aspirations of American families, as well as the...

interactive.wttw.com

 

[C0ncreteBl0nde]

Y'all might enjoy this documentary about the rise and fall of Sears and Montgomery Ward from WTTW (Chicago's PBS station):

Mail Order Giants | Chicago Stories

The catalogs of Sears, Roebuck, and Co., and Montgomery Ward were icons of Americana, beloved and eagerly anticipated. More than just a collection of necessities and Christmas wishes, the items within the many pages of those catalogs reflected the aspirations of American families, as well as the...

interactive.wttw.com

That was very interesting! Thank you!

 

[MBAir2010]

Amazon is garbage
their website is deceiving
and post false photos of most products.

why do humans choose that site is one reason, CHEAP!

what irks me is that most websites promote amazon as the ONLY source to purchase a product.
especially apple products which can be defective, available in weeks and from a un-trusty vendor.
I stopped following or reading Macworld, apple_insider, 9to5mac and several other fake apple review sites
since they are only promoting Amazon rather than apple nowadays. I even wrote a letter to Macworld asking them why they bash apple and only promote buying products through amazon this year with no reply.
Seems to me they bought these apple sites this past years, who will know or stop them?

but tha this okay since humans will be fooled into thinking this is a utopia of shopping
since the price was $50 less than apple. personal I would rather spend the real price and get that next day from apple knowing that product a MacBook iPad or even HomePod mini's are authentic and work!

thank you for reading this message an dim happy the feel the same way
we just need more humans to follow suit.

 

[Huntn]

You're old enough to remember the Sears catalog. I made my Christmas list from them.

How Sears missed the boat on online is stunning. Of all the B&M's out there, they were best positioned to not only compete with Amazon, but to be Amazon.

I think JCPenny too.

 

[Huntn]

Amazon is garbage
their website is deceiving
and post false photos of most products.

why do humans choose that site is one reason, CHEAP!

what irks me is that most websites promote amazon as the ONLY source to purchase a product.
especially apple products which can be defective, available in weeks and from a un-trusty vendor.
I stopped following or reading Macworld, apple_insider, 9to5mac and several other fake apple review sites
since they are only promoting Amazon rather than apple nowadays. I even wrote a letter to Macworld asking them why they bash apple and only promote buying products through amazon this year with no reply.
Seems to me they bought these apple sites this past years, who will know or stop them?

but tha this okay since humans will be fooled into thinking this is a utopia of shopping
since the price was $50 less than apple. personal I would rather spend the real price and get that next day from apple knowing that product a MacBook iPad or even HomePod mini's are authentic and work!

thank you for reading this message an dim happy the feel the same way
we just need more humans to follow suit.

I’m going to disagree about making this kind of generalization. I’m finding quality items there and junk, it’s infrequent that I return items but their return policy regarding the junk, makes it easy to remedy most sub par items.

Once I purchased an office chair, that was inadequate, I had to push the seller, but they ate the expense of the return. Note, I had to disassemble the chair and repack it, but this is the exception. Most returns are state your reason for a return and send it back, no hassles. This is said as a Prime Member, not sure how returns work if you pay for shipping.

 

[Chuckeee]

Most returns are state your reason for a return and send it back, no hassles. This is said as a Prime Member, not sure how returns work if you pay for shipping.

I am NOT a prime member but the return process works the same for me. Take the return form and the item to the ups store, they box it and ship it, no charge. Receive my money back including shipping I originally paid to Amazon

 

[Herdfan]

So if anything Amazon has helped drive other stores to step up their online competitiveness.

They still need to step up their game.

A couple of weeks ago I went to purchase something from a vendor and even though I selected Paypal as my method of payment, I still had to enter all my information. You know, the stuff Paypal does automatically.

 

[rm5]

I definitely am old enough to remember the Sears Catalog and other catalogs! When they arrived at the house, regardless of time of year, I always pored over them with great interest even though as a child I certainly didn't need and/or couldn't use most of the items listed. Mostly I looked at the toys and the clothing offered for little girls, but my mother always said, "no, we're not ordering clothes for you from a catalog, we need to go to a store." I do suspect, though, that my parents probably did order a few items from the catalog, especially at Christmastime, and that some of those items were indeed for me, in the spring (birthday and Easter presents!) and in the winter, toys set under the Christmas tree as being from "Santa Claus."

Christmas seems to be so different now, so wholly commercialized, which makes me sad.

Herdfan, you are so right -- Sears was ideally positioned to have become the leader in online shopping and yet they definitely missed the boat in a huge, huge, disastrous way.

Interesting. Of course I am too young to know about this, but it seems like, from the way you're describing them, that the catalogs were quite popular.

How did Sears "miss the boat" so badly? What caused Amazon to overtake them?

 

[Herdfan]

How did Sears "miss the boat" so badly? What caused Amazon to overtake them?

They didn't see it coming. When Amazon was exploding by moving into goods other than books, Sears was buying Land's End - another catalog retailer.

Just a failure of executive management.

 

[drrich2]

As a customer I love Amazon, and I don't work there. Vast diversity of offerings, easy to reading online reviews and product pages, ready comparison with competing options and quick access to both star ratings and user reviews, all enjoyed from the comfort of a recliner at home with no time rush.

Compare and contrast with the retail experience - go get in the car, drive to the store, do it when it works in our schedule rather than when I want to explore the topic, hunt through the shore, stand there staring at the item (if they have it!) amongst few competitors (if any), get tired of standing around ambivalent about making a decision, finally get the thing and wonder whether I'm making the wise choice.

And because I've learned the Amazon way, if I'm at Walmart, I may whip out my iPhone and hit Walmart.com to see if what I want is in-stock and what aisle it's on, what the star rating and reviews look like, etc... If I don't like the price, I can check online to see other options.

The low inventory diversity, lack of detailed online information and higher prices related to inefficient business models (e.g.: lack of economy-of-scale) of a so-called 'Mom and Pop' operation aren't likely to compare.

As for the hate on Amazon, it seems odd we're on a Mac forum focused on Apple devices, which presumably all of you own. You do know Apple's been a big customer of FoxConn, which had complaints about worker conditions and even (seriously, you cannot make this stuff up) installed suicide nets. Suicide nets. You buy products from a big company who gets a lot of product from an allegedly exploitative company that installed suicide nets to stop employees from killing themselves. I imagine the situation has improved over the years since, but really?

If you don't shop at Amazon, welcome to big box retailers like Walmart. Oh, there are ethical complaints about them, too? Okay, go smaller - Dollar General, etc... But there are people complaining they drain money from rural areas. Now what? Inefficient business model Mom & Pop operations that charge too much for what fraction of your wants and needs they can meet? I imagine Mom & Pop shop at Walmart, by the way. And while you're driving around to various Mom & Pop stores trying to track down all the stuff on your shopping list (and you can't check online whether they have it, you have to go look), you're burning gas, churning out greenhouse gas emissions and wasting time. One stop shopping matters.

None of these businesses are perfect or free of all complaints. The ones that become household name big businesses are the ones customers vote for with their dollars as the best perceived direct value to customers. And that's why so many log onto Amazon.com and Walmart.com.

Richard.

 

[Huntn]

They didn't see it coming. When Amazon was exploding by moving into goods other than books, Sears was buying Land's End - another catalog retailer.

Just a failure of executive management.

Several parallels of not seeing the future. It’s like a Netflix pitching to Blockbuster and Blockbuster blowing them off and then not that much later, becoming extinct. 🤔

 

[Scepticalscribe]

They didn't see it coming. When Amazon was exploding by moving into goods other than books, Sears was buying Land's End - another catalog retailer.

Just a failure of executive management.

The same thing happened with Nokia and mobile phones (cell phones).

 

[Scepticalscribe]

How Sears missed the boat on online is stunning. Of all the B&M's out there, they were best positioned to not only compete with Amazon, but to be Amazon.

Facinating - and absolutely spot on - observation.

 

[eyoungren]

How did Sears "miss the boat" so badly? What caused Amazon to overtake them?

They didn't see it coming. When Amazon was exploding by moving into goods other than books, Sears was buying Land's End - another catalog retailer.

Just a failure of executive management.

Several parallels of not seeing the future. It’s like a Netflix pitching to Blockbuster and Blockbuster blowing them off and then not that much later, becoming extinct. 🤔

All of this is true. But there is exactly one person you can lay blame upon for the final nail in the coffin and that is Eddie Lampert. If you have time, look him up - you'll find the whole sordid thing about what he did to Sears.

But basically, a billionaire hedge fund owner got a hold of the company and he mercilessly strangled it to enrich himself. He created companies that would prey on Sears by buying stores at below market value and then leasing the properties back to Sears at exorbitant rates. He made money off that and owned the property the stores were sitting on - effectively transferring ownership from Sears to himself. When stores closed, Lampert owned the property and made money again by selling it at a high price.

At the beginning he had massive management resignations because he wanted things done his way and would listen to no one. All of it designed to make him money, not Sears. I guess when Sears finally died, he just walked away.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

All of this is true. But there is exactly one person you can lay blame upon for the final nail in the coffin and that is Eddie Lampert. If you have time, look him up - you'll find the whole sordid thing about what he did to Sears.

But basically, a billionaire hedge fund owner got a hold of the company and he mercilessly strangled it to enrich himself. He created companies that would prey on Sears by buying stores at below market value and then leasing the properties back to Sears at exorbitant rates. He made money off that and owned the property the stores were sitting on - effectively transferring ownership from Sears to himself. When stores closed, Lampert owned the property and made money again by selling it at a high price.

At the beginning he had massive management resignations because he wanted things done his way and would listen to no one. All of it designed to make him money, not Sears. I guess when Sears finally died, he just walked away.

Now, that is a fascinating footnote; I wasn't aware of any of this.

 

[eyoungren]

what irks me is that most websites promote amazon as the ONLY source to purchase a product.

If you ascribe (like I do) to the idea that if you've ever thought about something, then someone else out there has had the same thought BEFORE you did, then it would make sense that whatever website you're reading is NOT the only source. Because someone else out there would have thought to sell stuff too.

I also assume that when it comes to advertising and dealing with business I am being lied to from the very beginning. Even with people, most are focused on their own self-interests.

So, as you say, this 'irks' you. I've known since the late 1980s when I first had income as a teenager that there was always some other place to buy something, especially if it was popular. Nothing's changed, including doing your homework to find a seller and avoid being ripped off. So, I look elsewhere, because I assume a website is trying to screw me over and things CAN be found elsewhere.

Also, I don't get buying advice from website advertising. I do my own research and I stick it to websites like that when I click 'BUY' on another website. Rather than be irked, flip those sites the mental middle finger when you buy somewhere else - because they're wrong! And YOU denied them your money by giving it to someone else! You one-upped them and not the other way around.

Two weeks ago I bought a brand name headset from the manufacturer of that headset. But not on that manufacturer's website. Why not? Because they have a store on Amazon and I have Amazon Prime. I got my headset a day later, instead of the four or five days ordering from the manufacturer website would have taken. Same company. Amazon is just the middleman, like eBay is for auction buyers and sellers.

 

[eyoungren]

Now, that is a fascinating footnote; I wasn't aware of any of this.

Yeah, Lampert was a real piece of work. I'd call him a few other things as well, but I'll keep that to myself. Guess who made money selling off Sears' famous brands (Die Hard, Kenmore, Craftsman, etc)? Not Sears. Lampert.

 

[MBAir2010]

eyoungren
Rather than be irked, flip those sites the mental middle finger when you buy somewhere else

bravo!
I purchase only thru apple, satechi, trek, owc online.

the message was for those who absentmindedly purchase thru amazon only.