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Scepticalscribe

macrumors Haswell
Jul 29, 2008
65,211
47,602
In a coffee shop.
We have had an interesting (and illuminating and instructive) discussion on how one sets standards when awarding "stars".

However, in the days when I patronised Amazon (and these days, I don't: I profoundly dislike their labour practices, and also deeply dislike the fact that they devour bricks'n'mortar stores; however, I will never deny the sheer fact of their convenience nor their vast range of products that are available when you choose to buy from them), one of the (many) things that irked me, was the veritable tsunami of "reminders", I used to receive, - once they would have received word that whatever I had ordered had arrived - requesting me to rate the product, seller and service.

And, if one didn't (immediately) respond, or reply, one would be reminded to do so, ad nauseam.
 

Herdfan

macrumors 65816
Apr 11, 2011
1,372
7,938
and also deeply dislike the fact that they devour bricks'n'mortar stores;

So do you think this is an Amazon problem or a B&M problem. Or a combination of both?

Granted Amazon is convenient for many things, including a lot that wouldn't be stocked at a B&M anyway, but do the B&M's bear some blame for not providing added value at the level needed to compete?

For example, I recently went into my local BestBuy to drop off an old computer for recycling and wanted to grab a new Sonos speaker for the porch. Their stock was pathetic, so I opened my phone and it was on its way to my house. Right there in the store. From Amazon.

Had they had it in stock, I would have bought it right then.
 

Scepticalscribe

macrumors Haswell
Jul 29, 2008
65,211
47,602
In a coffee shop.
So do you think this is an Amazon problem or a B&M problem. Or a combination of both?

Granted Amazon is convenient for many things, including a lot that wouldn't be stocked at a B&M anyway, but do the B&M's bear some blame for not providing added value at the level needed to compete?

For example, I recently went into my local BestBuy to drop off an old computer for recycling and wanted to grab a new Sonos speaker for the porch. Their stock was pathetic, so I opened my phone and it was on its way to my house. Right there in the store. From Amazon.

Had they had it in stock, I would have bought it right then.
Firstly, I think that the commercial environment - or, commercial culture - is somewhat different in the US and Europe.

However, secondly, there is also the issue not just of convenience (which I don't deny), but also of impatience, in other words, wanting something more or less immediately.

Personally, I actually like the idea of deferred gratification; unless something is an immediate (or urgent) requirement, in general, rather than "whip out my phone" (I very rarely carry my phone when out and about), I prefer to do my homework, research, (including online research), ask questions of (qualified) individuals in specialist bricks'n'mortar stores and actually think about a purchase.

Thus, even though I value time, I also like the feeling of anticipation, and of delayed, deferred, gratification.

There are some things I will never buy from Amazon - electronics, and clothes among them; for that matter, in the days I did buy form Amazon, the bulk of my purchases were books and/or CDs.
 
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drrich2

macrumors 6502
Jan 11, 2005
451
329
One thing that maybe hasn't gotten quite enough attention in this discussion is that big online retailers like Amazon are a great boon to people who are infirm (e.g.: advanced elderly or living in very rural areas).

I'm in my 50's. When I was a kid in a very rural area (e.g.: dirt road, surrounded by forest, armadillo dug ruts in the yard), we were about 20 miles from the main city (50 or 60 something thousand?). Mail order (other than Sears or J.C. Penny) wasn't common, trusted or fast (think 6 to 8 weeks?). Many specialty hobby products were a dream unless I could get a parent to drive around 1-1/2 hours to the big city. These days there are more Staples, Office-Max and Office Depot type stores, but I remember when rural equaled far less access to specialty products. Now my old Dad even further out in the boonies, in poor health and not getting out much, can have specialty products off Amazon brought by UPS. The biggest concern is making sure the elderly (like older than dirt) chihuahua who hates the UPS driver is in the house when she comes.

Handicapped people, the elderly, people too young to drive whose parents don't care to chaperone them around, and don't live in places with convenient public transpiration even if they can get out, benefit heavily from online ordering. Much of the U.S. is car-dependent, and not everyone can drive.

What's more, online retailers make it easy to send gifts and such. When Christmas rolls around, and the Black Friday and Cyber Monday species are on, I have the option to buy online and have something sent right to him.

Personally, I actually like the idea of deferred gratification; unless something is an immediate (or urgent) requirement, in general, rather than "whip out my phone" (I very rarely carry my phone when out and about), I prefer to do my homework, research, (including online research), ask questions of (qualified) individuals in specialist bricks'n'mortar stores and actually think about a purchase.
The U.S. is largely car culture oriented; a cell phone is handy in case someone breaks down. We're always used to being able to reach each other most of the time by text, etc... Going out for hours when your kids can't reach you, etc..., isn't appealing...never mind the risk of being stuck in line waiting without our pocket entertainment system.

Asking questions of store staff can be informative, but they have a conflict of interest in pushing their store's stock.
 

Scepticalscribe

macrumors Haswell
Jul 29, 2008
65,211
47,602
In a coffee shop.
One thing that maybe hasn't gotten quite enough attention in this discussion is that big online retailers like Amazon are a great boon to people who are infirm (e.g.: advanced elderly or living in very rural areas).

I'm in my 50's. When I was a kid in a very rural area (e.g.: dirt road, surrounded by forest, armadillo dug ruts in the yard), we were about 20 miles from the main city (50 or 60 something thousand?). Mail order (other than Sears or J.C. Penny) wasn't common, trusted or fast (think 6 to 8 weeks?). Many specialty hobby products were a dream unless I could get a parent to drive around 1-1/2 hours to the big city. These days there are more Staples, Office-Max and Office Depot type stores, but I remember when rural equaled far less access to specialty products. Now my old Dad even further out in the boonies, in poor health and not getting out much, can have specialty products off Amazon brought by UPS. The biggest concern is making sure the elderly (like older than dirt) chihuahua who hates the UPS driver is in the house when she comes.

Handicapped people, the elderly, people too young to drive whose parents don't care to chaperone them around, and don't live in places with convenient public transpiration even if they can get out, benefit heavily from online ordering. Much of the U.S. is car-dependent, and not everyone can drive.
That is a very good, necessary and fair point.

The relative size of the US (particularly when compared to/contrasted with much of western Europe) - and the vast rural areas (whereas much of western Europe is both smaller geographically, and much more intensely urbanised) do bring a somewhat different perspective to discussion of this question.

And yes, for people who are infirm, or not otherwise mobile, of course online retailers are a terrific boon (I would never attempt to argue otherwise), and offer convenience and variety of choice that cannot be obtained anywhere else.
What's more, online retailers make it easy to send gifts and such. When Christmas rolls around, and the Black Friday and Cyber Monday species are on, I have the option to buy online and have something sent right to him.
Also true.
The U.S. is largely car culture oriented; a cell phone is handy in case someone breaks down.
Fair point (whereas, in Europe, public transport, for the most part, tends to be pretty good, - safe, reliable, frequent, and affordable - and distances, are perhaps, a lot less than you would find in the US).
We're always used to being able to reach each other most of the time by text, etc...
In my professional life, yes, I accept those restrictions; but not - any longer - in my personal life.
Going out for hours when your kids can't reach you, etc..., isn't appealing...never mind the risk of being stuck in line waiting without our pocket entertainment system.
I hear you, but - when at home, (working when I am deployed abroad is different, for obvious reasons), and, now that my mother (for whom I was responsible) has passed away, and I no longer need to be contactable at all times, I very rarely carry a phone when I am out and about.

It is wonderful to no longer need to be tethered to such a thing.

And patience - plus actually paying some heed to your surroundings - are also habits worth cultivating, to my mind.
Asking questions of store staff can be informative, but they have a conflict of interest in pushing their store's stock.
Not if you are questioning them about the merits of a number of different brands that have manufactured a specific product, - I may wish to purchase a fridge, or a washing machine, but I am very keen to know what they think of the qualities of the respective brands, and, moreover, I will have done some reading and research in advance - and not if you visit several stores (as I am wont to do).

However, my world is broadly urban, and I do have access to bricks'n'mortar stores, and would profoundly regret their absence if they no longer existed.
 
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C0ncreteBl0nde

macrumors 65816
Jul 25, 2023
1,051
10,596
Rural America
One thing that maybe hasn't gotten quite enough attention in this discussion is that big online retailers like Amazon are a great boon to people who are infirm (e.g.: advanced elderly or living in very rural areas).

I'm in my 50's. When I was a kid in a very rural area (e.g.: dirt road, surrounded by forest, armadillo dug ruts in the yard), we were about 20 miles from the main city (50 or 60 something thousand?). Mail order (other than Sears or J.C. Penny) wasn't common, trusted or fast (think 6 to 8 weeks?). Many specialty hobby products were a dream unless I could get a parent to drive around 1-1/2 hours to the big city. These days there are more Staples, Office-Max and Office Depot type stores, but I remember when rural equaled far less access to specialty products. Now my old Dad even further out in the boonies, in poor health and not getting out much, can have specialty products off Amazon brought by UPS. The biggest concern is making sure the elderly (like older than dirt) chihuahua who hates the UPS driver is in the house when she comes.

Handicapped people, the elderly, people too young to drive whose parents don't care to chaperone them around, and don't live in places with convenient public transpiration even if they can get out, benefit heavily from online ordering. Much of the U.S. is car-dependent, and not everyone can drive.
This is me and why I still utilize Amazon even though I would rather not.
 

eyoungren

macrumors Penryn
Aug 31, 2011
29,659
28,435
So do you think this is an Amazon problem or a B&M problem. Or a combination of both?

Granted Amazon is convenient for many things, including a lot that wouldn't be stocked at a B&M anyway, but do the B&M's bear some blame for not providing added value at the level needed to compete?

For example, I recently went into my local BestBuy to drop off an old computer for recycling and wanted to grab a new Sonos speaker for the porch. Their stock was pathetic, so I opened my phone and it was on its way to my house. Right there in the store. From Amazon.

Had they had it in stock, I would have bought it right then.
I think there can often be a middle ground, which is one I utilize somewhat frequently. And that is ordering online for in-store pickup. For instance, the other day I wanted an item same day. It's not a common item but when Fry's Electronics was still around it would have been very common to find it there. Unfortunately, they are no longer here - and that's still a 30 minute drive.

But I did find it in stock at my local Best Buy (surprisingly). The best Amazon Prime could do for me was early AM the following day. BB had it right then. So, I ordered online and picked up in store. No searching for it.

I've done what more than once. It's convenient. If in stock, I get it same day and I go right in and get it right away with no waiting for it. Since I paid online for it, it's a simple matter of showing ID and walking out with it.

With restaurants it eliminates delivery fees.

Another point, and I think it goes to your availability reference. A lot of what I look for is not available locally or if it is, it requires a drive to get there. While I don't mind the drive, I often do not have enough time between certain segments of my day to make the trip. So getting these things online is easier and more convenient.

The things I'm looking for are not uncommon or rare. I just don't live in a large enough urban area where there are enough people like me looking for this stuff to justify having it in stock at multiple stores and retailers.
 

Huntn

macrumors Penryn
Original poster
May 5, 2008
24,019
27,100
The Misty Mountains
I think there can often be a middle ground, which is one I utilize somewhat frequently. And that is ordering online for in-store pickup. For instance, the other day I wanted an item same day. It's not a common item but when Fry's Electronics was still around it would have been very common to find it there. Unfortunately, they are no longer here - and that's still a 30 minute drive.

But I did find it in stock at my local Best Buy (surprisingly). The best Amazon Prime could do for me was early AM the following day. BB had it right then. So, I ordered online and picked up in store. No searching for it.

I've done what more than once. It's convenient. If in stock, I get it same day and I go right in and get it right away with no waiting for it. Since I paid online for it, it's a simple matter of showing ID and walking out with it.

With restaurants it eliminates delivery fees.

Another point, and I think it goes to your availability reference. A lot of what I look for is not available locally or if it is, it requires a drive to get there. While I don't mind the drive, I often do not have enough time between certain segments of my day to make the trip. So getting these things online is easier and more convenient.

The things I'm looking for are not uncommon or rare. I just don't live in a large enough urban area where there are enough people like me looking for this stuff to justify having it in stock at multiple stores and retailers.
This may not be a fair critique at this point, but I remember Best Buy being a rip off for cables and asscessories such as compared to online. You may have been buying the “best quality brand name stuff”, but at one point I needed component cables and they were like $75, a long while ago which turned me away from them. 🤔
 

eyoungren

macrumors Penryn
Aug 31, 2011
29,659
28,435
This may not be a fair critique at this point, but I remember Best Buy being a rip off for cables and asscessories such as compared to online. You may have been buying the “best quality brand name stuff”, but at one point I needed component cables and they were like $75, a long while ago which turned me away from them. 🤔
Oh, I would not buy cables and such from them. That's eBay for me, Amazon if I need it in a hurry. What I was looking for at that time though was a anti-shock cable with a wrist strap and an alligator clip. Amazon had one, but even with Prime it was next day. Best Buy had one for the same price and all I had to do was order/pay for in-store pickup at my local store. Same day.

I had just dealt that morning with having to reset the SMC on my Mac, reset PRAM, handle a tempermental hard drive that likes to drop out between boots and rejigger my eight displays so everything went back to normal. With the dry air here, I keep shocking the Mac through a wired Mighty Mouse that I have. Which is why I had to do all that.

I just wanted a same day pickup so I could ground myself to the Mac whenever I sat down. BB was good for that, less than $10.
 
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