The Car Thread ... !

[cube]

http://www.sfgate.com/business/tech...d-rankings-in-2016-quality-survey-8318694.php

If it were weighted by complexity and sophistication, I imagine BMW would win.

 

[2298754]

http://www.sfgate.com/business/tech...d-rankings-in-2016-quality-survey-8318694.php

If it were weighted by complexity and sophistication, I imagine BMW would win.

http://www.jdpower.com/press-releases/2016-us-initial-quality-study-iqs

IQS is a pretty meaningless metric, unlike VDS, which shows quality issues over the past 3 years. I cannot believe that Hyundai/KIA are screwing their cars together BETTER than Toyota/Lexus, the industry leader for the past 15-20 years. That's impossible.

 

[cube]

I imagine KIA and Hyundai are simpler cars.

I had a good impression of Hyundai the first time I was shown them in the 80's.
[doublepost=1466624499][/doublepost]

http://www.sfgate.com/business/tech...d-rankings-in-2016-quality-survey-8318694.php

If it were weighted by complexity and sophistication, I imagine BMW would win.

It seems it would also need to be weighted by the user's sophistication.

"The radio is confusing", etc.

 

[0388631]

What does this mean?

Crass joke. You made one about autounion weeks ago and I decided to put in my own polish onto the situation.

chubby

Maybe you didn't stroke it enough? Oh wait did you mean cubby?

As you can see...

I cannot stand plastic trim.

Hard plastic? I agree, but certain areas can't go without it due to durability reasons. Hard rubber coated plastics do well in higher end cars but they do add weight.

Nick Murray?



I hate the Silverstone Full Leather in his M4. All black or tan would work with his obnoxious Sakhir Orange M4.

Yep, that's him and his annoying NZ accent. When the M4's first came out, one of my employees bought it and owned it for about a year before trading up. It delivers a very harsh ride, according to him, even on the most comfortable of tires and driving modes.

San Marino over Amaro Brown

Fancy wording for saddle.

I remember watching his earlier videos when he first took delivery of his M4, he said his interior has held up pretty well and the interior cleaner he got from BMW does a good job so he didn't regret it. Even in that review you posted, the only part that is worn out is the bolster but overall, the interior has held up.

I'm not sure how his bolster got so dirty and worn unless he's rubbing his bum on it each time he gets in and out. I've had cars with light interiors and never suffered from that issue.

IQS is a pretty meaningless metric, unlike VDS, which shows quality issues over the past 3 years. I cannot believe that Hyundai/KIA are screwing their cars together BETTER than Toyota/Lexus, the industry leader for the past 15-20 years. That's impossible.

I agree, but I'm also not a fan of relying on Consumer Reports either. While there's truth to their summarized reports, the data they get can be biased. Motor Trend published a video this morning about the Alfa 4C vs the Audi TT S, and they went with the Alfa. In hindsight, the Alfa is the better driver's car for older generations who love the raw input needed, but for someone who wants quality (to an extent), refinement and value, I'd say the Audi would be the better choice. I bring this up because apart from the Wrangler, FCA can't make cars worth a damn.

I imagine KIA and Hyundai are simpler cars.

I had a good impression of Hyundai the first time I was shown them in the 80's.

You're thinking in the past. KIA and Hyundai have come in line with the Japanese companies in terms of complexity. Long term reliability is still unknown. Even KIA's or Hyundai's from 12-14 years ago would regularly blow head gaskets if you went on a long road trip.

 

[A.Goldberg]

Crass joke. You made one about autounion weeks ago and I decided to put in my own polish onto the situation.

You're thinking in the past. KIA and Hyundai have come in line with the Japanese companies in terms of complexity. Long term reliability is still unknown. Even KIA's or Hyundai's from 12-14 years ago would regularly blow head gaskets if you went on a long road trip.

Ah.... Okay... Don't you think that's a bit of a stretch based on the context of the quotes? I assume you're trying to use the word "polish" in reference to the trim finish convo? Oy vey. (Mr. AutoUnion happens to live around the corner from me and we converse regularly outside of here... So I consider myself qualified to make such comments.)

As for Hydunai/Kia- when they first set up shop in the US they were reliability nightmares and remained that way for years. The flip side is they offered their outrageous 10yr/100k warranty and would pretty much replace anything no questions asked. Now it seems like they're trying to turn the corner and best Toyota (and Honda to a lesser extent these days) in the realibility and longevity game. A car with excellent reliability is what most practical buyers value most. Hyundai/Kia has really demonstrated some excellent business prowess in overtaking leaps and bounds of market space over the past ~15 years. I have high expectations for Genesis to break into the premium/luxury market. All that said, I'd never buy one Haha.

 

[0388631]

Ah.... Okay... Don't you think that's a bit of a stretch based on the context of the quotes? I assume you're trying to use the word "polish" in reference to the trim finish convo? Oy vey. (Mr. AutoUnion happens to live around the corner from me and we converse regularly outside of here... So I consider myself qualified to make such comments.)

Not quite. I think the attempt at a joke is dead now. I had figured you were siblings or as you said, friends.

As for Hydunai/Kia- when they first set up shop in the US they were reliability nightmares and remained that way for years. The flip side is they offered their outrageous 10yr/100k warranty and would pretty much replace anything no questions asked. Now it seems like they're trying to turn the corner and best Toyota (and Honda to a lesser extent these days) in the realibility and longevity game. A car with excellent reliability is what most practical buyers value most. Hyundai/Kia has really demonstrated some excellent business prowess in overtaking leaps and bounds of market space over the past ~15 years. I have high expectations for Genesis to break into the premium/luxury market. All that said, I'd never buy one Haha.

Yes, well the Genesis set aside, Hyundai has the Equus. I've seen a few used buy reports from the first generation of the Equus and everyone seems happy with their buy. They're still getting a luxury car for a higher used price, not Lexus used, but fairly high. I believe KIA made the something 900 which didn't sell well, but I don't believe the US is their main market. The Genesis AU posted several weeks ago looks good. I saw a current model around the time he posted it and I thought it looked good. I feel with each iteration of the cars they produce, the quality will go up. But like you, I'd never buy one. The only Japanese brand I'm willing to buy is Lexus, but I'd like something with a more powerful engine. I don't see Lexus doing that anytime soon.

Do you plan on trading in or selling off your 5er anytime soon? Typical pharmacists in the area drive Suburbans, BMW 7 series, one has one of those hideous R classes and my personal pharmacist recently bought a C7. He's nearing retirement, but it was a gift to himself for putting 4 kids through college and having a small "chain" of pharmacies. You could also get a minivan.

Going back to nice looking cars but would never buy, my current pick if the new Alfa Giulia. Looks and sounds great, but is likely a ratchet magnet. Kind of like modern Maseratis. Every owner I've spoken to has spent more time at the dealership or indie garage than driving the damn things. That said, I've always liked the engine and exhaust note of the MC Stradale.

 

[cube]

You're thinking in the past. KIA and Hyundai have come in line with the Japanese companies in terms of complexity. Long term reliability is still unknown. Even KIA's or Hyundai's from 12-14 years ago would regularly blow head gaskets if you went on a long road trip.

I know they are complex cars now, but I think simplicity might be at the top of their list to accommodate their long warranties.

 

[bunnspecial]

Personally, I don't think any Korean cars can ever match up to the reliability of Daewoo.

 

[2298754]

I agree, but I'm also not a fan of relying on Consumer Reports either. While there's truth to their summarized reports, the data they get can be biased. Motor Trend published a video this morning about the Alfa 4C vs the Audi TT S, and they went with the Alfa. In hindsight, the Alfa is the better driver's car for older generations who love the raw input needed, but for someone who wants quality (to an extent), refinement and value, I'd say the Audi would be the better choice. I bring this up because apart from the Wrangler, FCA can't make cars worth a damn.

I'm not talking about CR. Even JDPower's own VDS (which shows long term durability after 3 years), Lexus and Toyota are still at the top.

I watched that Head2Head last night. It was pretty well done, but they blatantly ignored the Boxster/Cayman, which is a better car in every possible way. I'd even throw a CPO Jaguar F-Type into the mix.

 

[determined09]

That's so weird, someone spray painted your username on the wall behind your car ...

Sorry about the watermark on my photo is my ES the other day. I didn't mean to offend anyone here.

 

[2298754]

I know they are complex cars now, but I think simplicity might be at the top of their list to accommodate their long warranties.

Meh not really. Hyundai has been offering luxury features in mainstream products for years now. For example, they brought turbos to the Optima/Sonata around the same time the Germans went turbo-crazy. Options like adaptive cruise, heated steering wheel, heated rear seats, etc have been available in higher trimmed Hyundais for a while now. Toyota/Honda used to save all these for Lexus/Acura.
[doublepost=1466687943][/doublepost]

Do you plan on trading in or selling off your 5er anytime soon? Typical pharmacists in the area drive Suburbans, BMW 7 series, one has one of those hideous R classes and my personal pharmacist recently bought a C7. He's nearing retirement, but it was a gift to himself for putting 4 kids through college and having a small "chain" of pharmacies. You could also get a minivan.

We actually went car shopping last weekend. He's down to two different options. G Wagon or a RR SWB AutoBio. I've been telling @A.Goldberg to look at a Porsche Cayenne, but he won't listen

 

[bunnspecial]

Saw this, thought of you guys (see no. 2)
http://thegarage.jalopnik.com/here-are-ten-cars-you-wouldnt-buy-for-any-price-1782366618

How dare they rank the epitome of automotive engineering at #2!

Just add some flowered seat covers and some bolt-on Autozone pink carbon fiber look pedal covers and it totally transforms the car.

 

[0388631]

Personally, I don't think any Korean cars can ever match up to the reliability of Daewoo.

I give up. What's the Daewoo joke I'm not getting here?

I'm not talking about CR. Even JDPower's own VDS (which shows long term durability after 3 years), Lexus and Toyota are still at the top.

I watched that Head2Head last night. It was pretty well done, but they blatantly ignored the Boxster/Cayman, which is a better car in every possibly way. I'd even throw a CPO Jaguar F-Type into the mix.

I know. I brought it up as an example. When looking at reports or charts, one has to be vigilant. The IQ chart got posted 'round the net yesterday and I saw so much stupidity. And yes, I'll agree with you on the Porsche. I'm going to say the current Cayman GT4 will fetch decent value in the future. I can't comment on the F-Type. I've seen few, and anyone who buys one seems to keep it. Future classic? Maybe. Then again, I don't see many Jaguars in general. People associate the brand with problems, which is somewhat still the case. The F-Pace may entice the soccer moms out there to go for the brand.

We actually went car shopping last weekend. He's down to two different options. G Wagon or a RR SWB AutoBio. I've been telling @A.Goldberg to look at a Porsche Cayenne, but he won't listen

That's a special friendship. Wish I could have gotten a friend to go car shopping with me when I was your age. Anyway, G Wagons and Range Rover's are mostly driven by soccer moms here. Replacing the glass on the G wagon is incredibly cheap given it's all flat. I took into account the cost of a Pharm.D and loan repayment. He doesn't have to own a boring luxury car, but keeping his options sensible is a way not to break the bank. I wonder if he'd like to upgrade to your X5.

 

[AustinIllini]

I give up. What's the Daewoo joke I'm not getting here?

Daewoo is the best. No joke.

 

[cube]

Meh not really. Hyundai has been offering luxury features in mainstream products for years now. For example, they brought turbos to the Optima/Sonata around the same time the Germans went turbo-crazy. Options like adaptive cruise, heated steering wheel, heated rear seats, etc have been available in higher trimmed Hyundais for a while now. Toyota/Honda used to save all these for Lexus/Acura.

That's old stuff. The new things are active safety and intelligent driving assistance.

High end cars have at least 100 million lines of code.

G Wagon rocks.

 

[2298754]

That's old stuff. The new things are active safety and intelligent driving assistance.

...well yes. I was just saying that one could argue that Hyundai/Kia cars were more complex than the equivalent Honda/Toyota. They've offered things like HIDs and ACC on the Sonata years before Camcord got them. That was always their trump card. More features for the same price.

 

[iLog.Genius]

I'm not sure how his bolster got so dirty and worn unless he's rubbing his bum on it each time he gets in and out. I've had cars with light interiors and never suffered from that issue.

The side bolster can easily wear out and it just depends on how the driver gets out of the car - when I get out, my body just leans on it. I have a black interior in my E90 so I don't really have a problem with colour wear but the leather itself is severely worn but the rest of the seat is fine.

 

[D.T.]

The side bolster can easily wear out and it just depends on how the driver gets out of the car [...]

Also the seat design and position, general car design, driver size, seat/wheel setup, etc. There are cars where brushing against the outside bolster is just unavoidable - do that 4 - 8+ a day, every day for a few years, especially wearing jeans, it'll get worn out, regardless of what magical material/leather <insert_manufactuer> uses.

For the first time with this ride, I set the "easy out" mode, and have continued to use it (I've tried it in the past, usually got too annoying). Occasionally I'll jump out with the car running (so the seat doesn't slide back) and I make pretty definite contact the outer bolster.
[doublepost=1466701861][/doublepost]

Sorry about the watermark on my photo is my ES the other day. I didn't mean to offend anyone here.

It wasn't offensive at all, just funny. FWIW, I'm also [mostly] anti-water mark, I mean, is there really a threat from someone stumbling on a photo of a stock ES, and using it in some malevolent fashion?

Anyway I agree, you should post more photos

 

[bunnspecial]

took into account the cost of a Pharm.D and loan repayment. He doesn't have to own a boring luxury car, but keeping his options sensible is a way not to break the bank. I wonder if he'd like to upgrade to your X5.

Sorry to be blunt, but is it really any of your business how Dr. Goldberg handles his finances?

 

[dorsal]

VW to pay near $10.2B to settle emissions claims:
http://bigstory.ap.org/7331e2a146d24645820afa4d4328747b

I doubt they will end up paying that. People were not "harmed".

 

[A.Goldberg]

I give up. What's the Daewoo joke I'm not getting here?


That's a special friendship. Wish I could have gotten a friend to go car shopping with me when I was your age. Anyway, G Wagons and Range Rover's are mostly driven by soccer moms here. Replacing the glass on the G wagon is incredibly cheap given it's all flat. I took into account the cost of a Pharm.D and loan repayment. He doesn't have to own a boring luxury car, but keeping his options sensible is a way not to break the bank. I wonder if he'd like to upgrade to your X5.

Autounion and I have a very special relationship . I've done car shopping with a number of different friends. I think it dilutes the all too common annoying salesmen/women.

Buying a G-Wagon or Range Rover on a base pharmacist salary (which varies around the country but consider Boston at the higher end), with student debt, living in an high rent area sounds like a likely destructive and atrociously poor fiscal decision. Another poor decision would be buying a 5-year old, higher mileage X5.

Furthermore, "looking up" a pharmacist salary does not take into consideration my specialty qualifications, what I use my pharmD for (many options other than counting pills at cvs FYI), my partnership in an unrelated business, my investment portfolio, family trusts, other assets, not to mention spousal (in this case long-term GF) income and assets. Also, assuming student loans, thank god, would not be accurate. I'm also not concerned about the price of glass replacement as I don't live in some crime ridden ghetto and I actually have my car insured.

I appreciate your effort to make financial advisements however quite frankly I believe your commentary not only oversteps the general societally enacted boundaries regarding personal finance but also is presented in a thick air of condescension. I'm by no means a financial expert but I know I don't know everything about everything and everyone, therefore I have well trusted advisors handling such matters beyond my realm of knowledge.

 

[determined09]

Also the seat design and position, general car design, driver size, seat/wheel setup, etc. There are cars where brushing against the outside bolster is just unavoidable - do that 4 - 8+ a day, every day for a few years, especially wearing jeans, it'll get worn out, regardless of what magical material/leather <insert_manufactuer> uses.

For the first time with this ride, I set the "easy out" mode, and have continued to use it (I've tried it in the past, usually got too annoying). Occasionally I'll jump out with the car running (so the seat doesn't slide back) and I make pretty definite contact the outer bolster.
[doublepost=1466701861][/doublepost]

It wasn't offensive at all, just funny. FWIW, I'm also [mostly] anti-water mark, I mean, is there really a threat from someone stumbling on a photo of a stock ES, and using it in some malevolent fashion?

Anyway I agree, you should post more photos

Yes, I figured out that yesterday that you were anti-watermark by your statement.

 

[2298754]

I saw one of these bad boys at Whole Foods earlier today and I think I'm in love. Looked way better than the Land Cruiser parked a few cars down from it. Way cooler!

[doublepost=1466734126][/doublepost]

. And yes, I'll agree with you on the Porsche. I'm going to say the current Cayman GT4 will fetch decent value in the future.

Yeah, in typical Porsche GT fashion, they'll probably fetch MSRP in a few years. Even used ones are going for way over sticker today, especially if they are PTS models.

The 997.2 GT3RS 4.0s sell for 2-3x sticker depending on the color. Even used 991.1 GT3s are over sticker.

That's a special friendship. Wish I could have gotten a friend to go car shopping with me when I was your age. Anyway, G Wagons and Range Rover's are mostly driven by soccer moms here. Replacing the glass on the G wagon is incredibly cheap given it's all flat. I took into account the cost of a Pharm.D and loan repayment. He doesn't have to own a boring luxury car, but keeping his options sensible is a way not to break the bank. I wonder if he'd like to upgrade to your X5.

Seems pretty condescending. His "situation" (or mine) doesn't concern you... at all.

For the record, the GL(S) is pretty much the soccer-mom car of choice around here. The ones on a lower budget usually end up with the MDX
[doublepost=1466734269][/doublepost]

I'm also not concerned about the price of glass replacement as I don't live in some crime ridden ghetto and I actually have my car insured.

It's pretty scary out here! You know... with all the Porsches/Maseratis/Range Rovers/McLarens out on the streets of BL.

 

[macquariumguy]

VW to pay near $10.2B to settle emissions claims:
http://bigstory.ap.org/7331e2a146d24645820afa4d4328747b

I doubt they will end up paying that. People were not "harmed".

I'll bet they pay a lot more than that when it's all over.

 

[576316]

http://www.jdpower.com/press-releases/2016-us-initial-quality-study-iqs

IQS is a pretty meaningless metric, unlike VDS, which shows quality issues over the past 3 years. I cannot believe that Hyundai/KIA are screwing their cars together BETTER than Toyota/Lexus, the industry leader for the past 15-20 years. That's impossible.

LOL this sums up our experience with Smart perfectly. We've got a 2015 Smart ForFour, hundreds of problems that meant it's gone back to manufacturer about 6 times.

A few issues I'll mention:

Alarm kept going off (almost every 10 minutes) - 'fixed' and told it was an issue with the bonnet clip, bonnet thought it was being opened all the time.

Reverse gear often does not engage, told there is no issue because they couldn't replicate it the two times they tried it.

USB port on dash straight up doesn't work, told it was a problem with our cable and they wouldn't fix/look at it.

Alarm suddenly starts going off again, 3 months later...goes back in to manufacturer - told there's a problem with the battery connector, battery thinks it's being disconnected every 10 minutes. New connector and battery fitted.

Not to mention the engine is massively underpowered and the 0-60 is absolutely dire, 4 adults in the car is a joke - the car doesn't go anywhere.

Oh also, there's a handy 'eco drive' score on the dash display which you CANNOT turn off. Gives you a real-time driving score up to 100%, drops to 20% if you accelerate or brake and stays there. You can reset it, but the car literally doesn't like being driven. Constant glitches and crashes with the 'Smart' system too, we've had the Maps app crap out on us multiple times forcing a system restart. Music display never shows song title or album artwork, even there there's space holders for both. Oh and when we were having the problems with the alarm system we read the manual, only to find that it makes claims that simply are not true about certain systems in the car which simply do not function the way the manual claims, it's amazing. Looking to end the lease early and get something better...not my car btw.

It's as if they just can't make cars.