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The Car Thread ... !
- Thread starter D.T.
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I sure don't, but the numbers, it seems, are compelling. Now, whether the demand is driven by marketing by automakers in favor of high-profit-margin vehicles, or by genuine preference, is a chicken-or-egg problem.
Update:
Installed the latest projectors. Actually they are much _brighter_ than I anticipated and overall it was money saved. They made a significant difference with how they appear projected on the ground. Fairly content all things considered.
Installed the latest projectors. Actually they are much _brighter_ than I anticipated and overall it was money saved. They made a significant difference with how they appear projected on the ground. Fairly content all things considered.
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People care more about sitting high in a vehicle than they do the driving experience of cars with a lower centre of gravity.
There's a small loophole in the law that let's manufacturers be a little lax on CUV and SUVs. I only learned about it a couple months ago. Off the top of my head, the EPA takes into account the overall size and weight of the vehicle, as well as the wheelbase, and relaxes those rules the taller and bigger the car is. It's a band-aid solution to a problem.
Crossovers aren't bad provided they're well built and are nice to drive. If it feels like you're driving a stick of butter, then...
Crossovers aren't bad provided they're well built and are nice to drive. If it feels like you're driving a stick of butter, then...
Maybe I'm weird, but I like cars that drive like cars and trucks that drive like trucks.
On a truck, I want rear wheel drive with a live axle and body on frame. I want recirculating ball steering. If I get any road feedback from the steering wheel, something is wrong
On a truck, I want rear wheel drive with a live axle and body on frame. I want recirculating ball steering. If I get any road feedback from the steering wheel, something is wrong
Crossovers are great in many ways, and much nicer to drive than even just a decade ago.
But anyone who enjoys spirited driving knows that, all else being equal, crossovers are never as much fun to drive as a "car". Even the BMW or Porsche SUV's so hyped for their drivability are still not as nimble and low-slung as those companies' own car offerings.
The suspension packages are a MUST for the Cayenne and the smaller Macan. I believe for BMW the ultimate is the M variant or if not, the M Sport Suspension package if available.
Continuing on from the generics discussion, Bar Keeper's Friend is a great cleanser. For polished stainless steel, I would recommend making a solution in warm water, get a rag and dip it in, then lay it atop whatever you're cleaning and let the chemical inside do the work. This way you avoid the fine powder (which I assume is diatomaceous earth) from causing swirls. You can also use the bathroom spray with doesn't have the grit.
Another fantastic and very generic looking product is Never Dull. Comes in a plastic or tin tub. Works beautifully. It looks very, very generic and most people ignore it. I buy the Basch version because it's cheaper than Eagle One and they make it for Eagle One anyway.
Another fantastic and very generic looking product is Never Dull. Comes in a plastic or tin tub. Works beautifully. It looks very, very generic and most people ignore it. I buy the Basch version because it's cheaper than Eagle One and they make it for Eagle One anyway.
I can kind of see where you're coming from. Nothing wrong in preferring those things. From a DIY point of view, a lot of things were easier to do yourself if you had the know-how and the tools back in the day.Maybe I'm weird, but I like cars that drive like cars and trucks that drive like trucks.
On a truck, I want rear wheel drive with a live axle and body on frame. I want recirculating ball steering. If I get any road feedback from the steering wheel, something is wrong
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Branching off the detailer/cleaning products:
Griots Compound is another excellent product. Have not used it on my newer cars, but for past vehicles, it’s excellent for water spots/stains, paint swirls/scuffs, reducing the appearance scratches that was marring my car. I previousky owned a 2009 Crown Vic P.P purchased by auction years back, the paint was showing swirl marks and had some minor oxidization, just by hand, the compound reduced/corrected the _majority_ of defects, which made a significant difference in the car’s appearance. If anyone is interested, Its available on Amazon, where it likely has the more affordable price tag.
Griots Compound is another excellent product. Have not used it on my newer cars, but for past vehicles, it’s excellent for water spots/stains, paint swirls/scuffs, reducing the appearance scratches that was marring my car. I previousky owned a 2009 Crown Vic P.P purchased by auction years back, the paint was showing swirl marks and had some minor oxidization, just by hand, the compound reduced/corrected the _majority_ of defects, which made a significant difference in the car’s appearance. If anyone is interested, Its available on Amazon, where it likely has the more affordable price tag.
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lol times change; there are TONS of trucks & SUVs on used car lots 'cause of high gas prices...
so, who knows?
I will stick with my '06 Mustang for a while lol
Wow. That’s crazy. I guess no Taurus/Police Interceptors? I suppose the most recent generation Taurus was never really a big seller, the Fusion kind of seized that bit of the market. It will be interesting to see what police departments will use. I suppose up here in the North East a lot of departments are using the Explorer to a large extent- in the Massachusetts the State Police pretty much exclusively drives Explorers/PIX.
More than half of all the new police cars purchased in the US annually are just one model - Ford Explorers. In 20 years nobody outside perhaps state highway patrols will be buying police "cars" at all (and most of them are buying SUVs too).
Incredibly stupid decision by Ford. If Toyota and Honda are able to justify these cars, Ford has no excuse. They make so much money off the F150.
What happens when gas spikes again? People are going to run straight to their local Toyota/Honda/Hyundai/Kia showrooms, skipping over the domestics.
Does this mean Lincoln becomes an SUV-only brand? All of their sedans are fancy Fords.
Ford spent years boosting their performance image with the Fiesta ST, Focus ST, and Focus RS. Where does that leave us now? Edge ST? Explorer ST?
[doublepost=1524843618][/doublepost]http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2018/04/toyota-spending-money-u-s-conventional-passenger-car/
Toyota getting their plants ready for the upcoming Corolla sedan and hatchback
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I don't know....
I don't think it will be a 2005 all over again because crossovers are pretty fuel efficient these days compared to the 14 MPG SUV's were getting back then. So I don't think there will be a huge shift back again. If gas prices spike, I think the shift would be from the full size crossovers to the compact crossovers. Plus besides the Taurus, Ford will be maintaining the cars in foreign markets so they could reintroduce them quickly.
But it is still a risky move and it still concerns me too.
Yeah, I don’t think the problem is so much as it is the car (sedan) market as it is Ford’s inability to sell sedans. I wouldn’t be surprised if they made a last ditch effort and made a 4dr Mustang Sedan- an idea they were toying with several years ago. That seems more like a GM move though.
I do think it’s a risky move to cease all production of sedans. Some people prefer the feel of a car and if gas prices go up again, I think people will want cars again. Yes, a lot of car based SUV’s get good gas mileage, but it’s still never going to be as good as what you could get with a sedan. I think from a marketing perspective people assume SUV’s get much worse fuel economy, which could pose itself as another issue if gas prices jump.
I think if Ford was smart they’d drop the Lincoln name and create a new luxury brand- like what Hyundai, Toyota, Honda, and Nissan did with Genesis, Lexus, Acura, and Nissan. The old Lincoln name carries too much baggage.
This sounds great in theory, but the domestics have always been slow to respond to the market.
Ford is gifting over 250k units (Focus + Fiesta) to the imports.
Examples:
- XT4/6 are coming 3-5 years late. No smaller Escalades.
- Ford selling the last-gen Navigator for a decade.
- FCA is still selling the old Journey/Challenger/Charger/300.
Notice how it's always the domestics making drastic changes? When gas prices spike, all Toyota and Honda have to do is adjust capacity as its needed. You don't see the imports dropping key models just because they don't sell for a few years.
All of these decisions are short-sighted. Toyota and Honda figured out a long time ago that people stay loyal to a brand with a complete lineup. Someone graduating college might buy a Corolla as their first car and then upgrade to a RAV4/Highlander. And then upgrade to a Lexus as they get older.
[doublepost=1524853259][/doublepost]
Fusion is still a top 5 seller in its segment. Surprisingly, people actually buy them.
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2018/04/midsize-car-sales-in-america-march-2018/
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And I agree. When I first heard this decision, my mind went straight to the 1980's and 2005 when there was a shift in consumer preferences and the domestics not being prepared. I understand the business side of it. Cars are out of favor and they are low-profit margin products. From a business perspective, it doesn't make sense to keep them around taking up plant capacity that could be going to producing higher profit margin crossovers and SUV's. Unlike in 2005, Ford's One Ford strategy should in theory as you suggested keep the Fiesta, Focus, Fusion( Mondeo in other countries) US compliant. So if there is a shift, they could just import them while they regain capacity to build them in NA again. Where in 2005, GM and Ford had to wait until the next generation of the car so they could make it US compliant which took a long time to occur. I still think it is a short term decision that will probably bite them like it did in the 80's and 2005. I don't like it one bit despite the theory of them quickly reintroducing them if the market comes back.
The XT4/XT6 situation is probably why JDN lost his job at GM. From what I have been hearing, he was doing the long term rebuild strategy wanting to build the prestige of the brand even if it sacrifices volume today( aka build halo vehicles). GM execs weren't quite happy with him not capitalizing on today's hot market for crossovers.
Initially, the Dodge Charger/Ford Taurus police interceptor was the _primary_ models used once the transition was ended with the Crown Victoria in 2011. (Even today, some agencies are still employing the Police Crown Victoria’s, but they primarily are being retired being they don’t meet the D.O.T safety requirements anymore.)
The Taurus interceptor (Both 3.5 Ecoboost and 3.7) have more than enough power on the roadway, the issue with those specific models is that they lack Space (Keyword) The trunk space in the P.P Taurus is partially consumed due to A converter box that is installed in the back for all the onboard electronics, leaving very little room enough for even for other emergency equipment. Inside the cabin, the visibility is rather poor (Safety concern), which is also another common complaint with the Taurus interceptor, but where the biggest complaint is legroom. When you factor in the partition from the prisoner transport to the officer cabin area, you have very little room, even with the seat completely back (Which is even restricted by the partition to reach its full length), and the seats are not nearly as comfortable and are somewhat smaller than what the crown Victoria driver seat was as well.
And then you had agencies complaining about the Ford Taurus Interceptor and officers wanting more leg space, more visibility, more room to store their gear and emergency equipment in the back of the vehicle, even in the prisoner transport‘s are extremely difficult with very little legroom.
So when agencies start to restructuring their fiscal budgets, in addition to listening Officers concerns/complaints and when they had the ability to upgrade their vehicles again, they were upgrading to the Ford Explorer police interceptor models (Which has exponentially grown considerably for the last three years for agencies upgrading to the Explorer model and abandoning the Taurus model for said reasons in my State) , which literally alleviates all the above issues mentioned, incorporating an immense amount more space for storage, additional head and leg room, the ride height increased greatly and the Explorer can even incorporate a bi-dual partition to transport two prisoners if need be (Which also reduces the need for a second car on scene for a transport), and of course they are just as powerful with a 3.5 L AWD eco-boost in a larger platform for varying road conditions.
In my area, I believe I mentioned it somewhere prior in this thread, but almost all of the squads are the majority of Ford Explorer police interceptors and a mix of the Ford Taurus interceptor’s, which is shifted greatly, because it initially started as many of the Taurus line being used, but that’s since been opposite once those reached a certain mileage, they were retired and convertered to the Explorers.
So, that all said; I completely agree with Ford discontinuing the Taurus line (Amongst other vehicles in their line up). Not just for the police interceptor for reasons already stated, but also the civilian model which seemingly is very rare on the roadway compared to all the other economy vehicles. I think it’s been prevalent for some time that the Taurus line was fading and lacking physical upgrades, and even the SHO served it’s purpose for the heritage behind it, but it doesn’t serve a purpose and a need for a market for $43,000 vehicle when you can literally find them for half that price with very few miles. [Not to mention all the other competition in similar or better price ranges with upgraded aesthetic/interior packages]. The last major update for the SHO was in 2013, Which I am actually surprised they even made a 2018 model given the recent announcement, but nothing was changed in that model hardly at all as well. I Think altogether, it goes to show you the rising cost of vehicles, consumers are not necessarily in the market for a newer vehicle, when they can find a used vehicle with very few miles and still have a warranty attached.
Now with Ford discontinuing the Focus, Taurus, Fiesta and Fusion, there is certainly some popularity in those specific vehicles, (Especially the Fusion) but I think the issue with those cars is that they are dated/ancient in the line up and sold well initially upon their release, but have been on the decline since crossovers have taken over in other segments. Which leads me to believe even the Chrysler 300 (Hardly see this vehicle ever) will be discontinued and I believe I read somewhere that GM might be discontinuing some vehicles in their lineup as well. Its an interesting time and shift where vehicles are ultimate leading with the hybrid/electric platform, but still in its infancy with Ford in many levels.
Also, another member mentioned (Puma1551) while back about a possible electric Mustang, seems that reality will be here soon enough, strangely. But for now, Naturally aspirated is plenty relevant.
The Taurus interceptor (Both 3.5 Ecoboost and 3.7) have more than enough power on the roadway, the issue with those specific models is that they lack Space (Keyword) The trunk space in the P.P Taurus is partially consumed due to A converter box that is installed in the back for all the onboard electronics, leaving very little room enough for even for other emergency equipment. Inside the cabin, the visibility is rather poor (Safety concern), which is also another common complaint with the Taurus interceptor, but where the biggest complaint is legroom. When you factor in the partition from the prisoner transport to the officer cabin area, you have very little room, even with the seat completely back (Which is even restricted by the partition to reach its full length), and the seats are not nearly as comfortable and are somewhat smaller than what the crown Victoria driver seat was as well.
And then you had agencies complaining about the Ford Taurus Interceptor and officers wanting more leg space, more visibility, more room to store their gear and emergency equipment in the back of the vehicle, even in the prisoner transport‘s are extremely difficult with very little legroom.
So when agencies start to restructuring their fiscal budgets, in addition to listening Officers concerns/complaints and when they had the ability to upgrade their vehicles again, they were upgrading to the Ford Explorer police interceptor models (Which has exponentially grown considerably for the last three years for agencies upgrading to the Explorer model and abandoning the Taurus model for said reasons in my State) , which literally alleviates all the above issues mentioned, incorporating an immense amount more space for storage, additional head and leg room, the ride height increased greatly and the Explorer can even incorporate a bi-dual partition to transport two prisoners if need be (Which also reduces the need for a second car on scene for a transport), and of course they are just as powerful with a 3.5 L AWD eco-boost in a larger platform for varying road conditions.
In my area, I believe I mentioned it somewhere prior in this thread, but almost all of the squads are the majority of Ford Explorer police interceptors and a mix of the Ford Taurus interceptor’s, which is shifted greatly, because it initially started as many of the Taurus line being used, but that’s since been opposite once those reached a certain mileage, they were retired and convertered to the Explorers.
So, that all said; I completely agree with Ford discontinuing the Taurus line (Amongst other vehicles in their line up). Not just for the police interceptor for reasons already stated, but also the civilian model which seemingly is very rare on the roadway compared to all the other economy vehicles. I think it’s been prevalent for some time that the Taurus line was fading and lacking physical upgrades, and even the SHO served it’s purpose for the heritage behind it, but it doesn’t serve a purpose and a need for a market for $43,000 vehicle when you can literally find them for half that price with very few miles. [Not to mention all the other competition in similar or better price ranges with upgraded aesthetic/interior packages]. The last major update for the SHO was in 2013, Which I am actually surprised they even made a 2018 model given the recent announcement, but nothing was changed in that model hardly at all as well. I Think altogether, it goes to show you the rising cost of vehicles, consumers are not necessarily in the market for a newer vehicle, when they can find a used vehicle with very few miles and still have a warranty attached.
Now with Ford discontinuing the Focus, Taurus, Fiesta and Fusion, there is certainly some popularity in those specific vehicles, (Especially the Fusion) but I think the issue with those cars is that they are dated/ancient in the line up and sold well initially upon their release, but have been on the decline since crossovers have taken over in other segments. Which leads me to believe even the Chrysler 300 (Hardly see this vehicle ever) will be discontinued and I believe I read somewhere that GM might be discontinuing some vehicles in their lineup as well. Its an interesting time and shift where vehicles are ultimate leading with the hybrid/electric platform, but still in its infancy with Ford in many levels.
Also, another member mentioned (Puma1551) while back about a possible electric Mustang, seems that reality will be here soon enough, strangely. But for now, Naturally aspirated is plenty relevant.
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I own a Fiesta - it is an excellent car, but has fallen victim to the irrational size prejudice that infuses the US auto-buying public. In terms of value, there are few better performance cars out there than the Fiesta ST. My Fiesta will likely be be the last Ford I ever own, since 1) I'm not interested in SUVs and 2) in the unlikely event I ever buy a truck it will be used, given the insane prices being paid for new pickups these days...
Ford is essentially gambling that "the car is dead, long live the SUV" - at least in the US.
Ford is essentially gambling that "the car is dead, long live the SUV" - at least in the US.
I used to feel the same but, in reality, Lincoln has just been a badge for decades now...it's meaningless except from a marketing standpoint.
The future of motoring - the 10% of the population who can still afford an automobile choose either the Small, Medium, or Large plugin electric crossover manufactured by the business that emerges from the merger of Google, Facebook, Amazon and Tesla. Everyone else is on foot and eating Soylent Green.
It's also the brand that has brought us what is, IMO, the single best mid-size sedan made in the US in the past 30 years.
Confession-I'm a die-hard Lincoln fanboy. My daily driver is my second Lincoln in a row, and my family has a long history of owning them.
At the same time, they don't currently make anything that appeals to me. My dad has a 2015 MKS, and it's certainly nice but it doesn't appeal to me THAT much.