The Car Thread ... !

[2298754]

BMW Z4 coupe reviews are out

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a27440454/2020-toyota-supra-by-the-numbers/

The 2020 Toyota Supra Is the Proper Sports Car It Needs to Be
Toyota's tryst with BMW has produced its best driver's car ever.

 

[0388631]

At the price point Toyota is asking for... I think I'd rather purchase the BMW variant. One thing that surprised me was that despite the B58 engine being fairly reliable so far in the 3er and any other model using it, is that Toyota also found it very reliable and passed their internal testing. That says a lot about the evolutionary design that ended up at the B58.

Though, mind you, both the Z4 and this Supra are getting the TU0 engine and not the renewed B58 iteration. Though it would say a lot if the new iteration is just as reliable if not more reliable. That said, I'm not suffering from another mid-life crisis to buy either vehicle.
[doublepost=1557877618][/doublepost]

Nissan discontinuing the ‘370 Roadster’ after the 2019 MY.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/amp27343442/nissan-370z-roadster-discontinued-2020/

No surprise, no one’s buying this car anymore, especially at 40,000-ish for the Roadster. It’s a dated platform, even thought had it had its time like 10 years ago, but curious to see how this will coincide for the GTR in the future.

Weren't the 350 and 370z's known to be death traps?
[doublepost=1557878087][/doublepost]Also, is it safe to stop referring to the 3er as a compact luxury sport sedan? Because it isn't compact. It's ****ing huge.

 

[senseless]

It's nice, but do you think this will be a good seller? I can't imagine a market for a $50K roadster in the states.

 

[0388631]

It'll depend on locale.

 

[2298754]

It's nice, but do you think this will be a good seller? I can't imagine a market for a $50K roadster in the states.

Z4 will definitely outsell the Toyota. Badge appeal + BMW's leasing programs
[doublepost=1557935084][/doublepost]

[doublepost=1557878087][/doublepost]Also, is it safe to stop referring to the 3er as a compact luxury sport sedan? Because it isn't compact. It's ****ing huge.

Agreed, especially with the introduction of the A3 and CLA
[doublepost=1557935264][/doublepost]

Though, mind you, both the Z4 and this Supra are getting the TU0 engine and not the renewed B58 iteration.

Z4 M40i gets the "newer" B58 with 382hp. For some reason, the Toyota is getting a lower-tune from the new X5/7.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_B58#B58B30O1:_285_kW_(382_HP)

 

[0388631]

Agreed, especially with the introduction of the A3 and CLA

I've seen a handful of A3 body shapes. All while driving as I never made an effort to check out the A3 when I was at the Audi dealers. I saw an RS3 a few months ago next to me in traffic. Nice car. Loud color.

That said, I have seen a few CLAs in person. I don't think they're that big, to be honest with you.

Z4 M40i gets the "newer" B58 with 382hp. For some reason, the Toyota is getting a lower-tune from the new X5/7.

Appears you're correct. Though if memory serves me right, I said the same and questioned why BMW gave them the older engine. No idea why I thought both used the same engine now. Hmm.

 

[iLog.Genius]

At the price point Toyota is asking for... I think I'd rather purchase the BMW variant.

If we're looking at it from a Supra point-of-view, and by that, I mean performance - I 100% disagree.

For one, at its price, there is nothing really in this segment. You might include Cayman, M2 and maybe the Z4 M40i (because platform sharing) but from what we're hearing, the Supra is supposed to top all those cars. The price point is just icing at on the cake at approx. $50k, while the rest are at least $10k+ more expensive.

I think if you're looking at a Supra, you're doing so because of its performance and not just as a $50k two-door sports car. If not, then the Supra should not be on your list. The Supra is a niche vehicle and was resurrected for one purpose and from early reviews, it's done what it's meant to do. If you're just looking for a two-door coupe/roadster for more of a show piece, then yes, there are probably other vehicles you could be looking at.

 

[0388631]

If we're looking at it from a Supra point-of-view, and by that, I mean performance - I 100% disagree.

For one, at its price, there is nothing really in this segment. You might include Cayman, M2 and maybe the Z4 M40i (because platform sharing) but from what we're hearing, the Supra is supposed to top all those cars. The price point is just icing at on the cake at approx. $50k, while the rest are at least $10k+ more expensive.

I think if you're looking at a Supra, you're doing so because of its performance and not just as a $50k two-door sports car. If not, then the Supra should not be on your list. The Supra is a niche vehicle and was resurrected for one purpose and from early reviews, it's done what it's meant to do. If you're just looking for a two-door coupe/roadster for more of a show piece, then yes, there are probably other vehicles you could be looking at.

It's not so much the raw price point but it's the inflation of cost over the Mk.4 Supra. Yeah, both different vehicles but does a resurrection and borrowed platform result in such a high cost? If this Supra were pushing 400 HP, I'd let it slide. But at its current power figure and historic glory, this is underwhelming. The 50/50 weight distribution is impressive. The rest is just BMW.

This Supra and just about any reincarnation is aimed squarely at people in my age demographic and older who may have had this car in the past. Granted, I didn't have one. I had an RX7.

A new RX7 or modern Z32 would interest me a lot more than a Supra. But I recall @D.T. saying he had an Mk.4 Supra or earlier generation. A mint Z32 that hasn't been adulterated goes for a tidy sum nowadays.

Or a modern take on a 190. That would be very sexy. The Supra looks nice, though. The biggest takeaway out of the 2010s is the enlarging of vehicle design due to new safety protocols. Taking away hood ornaments was understandable, albeit painful to both the run over party and the owner of the vehicle that had one.

But like I said, I'm not suffering another mid-life crisis. And I don't like my head rubbing against the headliner.

 

[44267547]

Update #3:

So for the first time in all my performance cars, I’m opting for a Mopar and car ruling out the GT350. The only reason I’m excluding the GT350 is because I don’t want to have two Mustangs, when I know one of them will end up being a ‘garage queen’ and not driven enough. I need more diversity, even though the GT350 is a special car and the Tremec six speed was something I was looking forward to, but it seems to be for the best.

So my last two options, which I’m finalizing soon, is a 18/19 new Scat Pack or a slightly used 2016 Hellcat with low miles/clean with one owner, totaling around $45,600, which I prefer to buy new, that’s just my primary method, being I’m very particular, however this one particular Hellcat I’m considering is immaculately clean, (of course the supercharger is a nice perk) to the point where it’s in ‘showroom condition’, [which I would never say about any used car for the record] nonetheless, very excited, and perfect timing, as the weather is gorgeous and I’m ready for the next transition for some modernized muscle.

Mopar or No Car.

 

[0388631]

I don't even know how you have time to drive for pleasure with the weird hours people in your field work.

Got a curious question, but has anyone here rented or driven a DS before in Europe?

 

[Matz]

Update #3:

So for the first time in all my performance cars, I’m opting for a Mopar and car ruling out the GT350. The only reason I’m excluding the GT350 is because I don’t want to have two Mustangs, when I know one of them will end up being a ‘garage queen’ and not driven enough. I need more diversity, even though the GT350 is a special car and the Tremec six speed was something I was looking forward to, but it seems to be for the best.

So my last two options, which I’m finalizing soon, is a 18/19 new Scat Pack or a slightly used 2016 Hellcat with low miles/clean with one owner, totaling around $45,600, which I prefer to buy new, that’s just my primary method, being I’m very particular, however this one particular Hellcat I’m considering is immaculately clean, (of course the supercharger is a nice perk) to the point where it’s in ‘showroom condition’, [which I would never say about any used car for the record] nonetheless, very excited, and perfect timing, as the weather is gorgeous and I’m ready for the next transition for some modernized muscle.

Mopar or No Car.

Based on the two I've owned, my next car will almost certainly be another Charger - Scat Pack or Hellcat, lightly used. My current AWD R/T, purchased coming off a lease, turned out to be a very good find.

Nice choice, either way. Just a thought - don't know if you use an iPhone, but if I'm not mistaken, CarPlay didn't arrive in Chargers until 2017. Not sure if that's a factor in your selection process, but fwiw, there it is.

 

[44267547]

Based on the two I've owned, my next car will almost certainly be another Charger - Scat Pack or Hellcat, lightly used. My current AWD R/T, purchased coming off a lease, turned out to be a very good find.

Nice choice, either way. Just a thought - don't know if you use an iPhone, but if I'm not mistaken, CarPlay didn't arrive in Chargers until 2017. Not sure if that's a factor in your selection process, but fwiw, there it is.

Yup. The 2016 Hellcat was a lease from the previous owner, 11,500 miles/ Ivory white tri-coat/warranty/loaded. I honestly think the Hellcat Charger is truly ‘one of a kind’, and really what you’re purchasing with this car is the forced induction 6.2l. The downside, is that I really don’t prefer a 2016 (Being it’s already 3 years old), but this one is a decent savings considering what’s its offering and meets all my expectations.

The 18/19 Scat Pack I’m considering would obviously be new, LED interior lighting, includes Brembo brakes, 20 inch wheels, heated/cooled seats/wheel and of course Apple CarPlay as you mentioned. And another consideration.....I can choose my color on the Scat versus having to accept white on the Hellcat. The other Plus side to buying the 18/19 Scat, not also would I be saving some money, but I could take the extra money and tint the windows/ ceramic coat the vehicle/wheels upon delivery.

So, the trade-off being if I opt for the 2016 Hellcat: No Apple CarPlay, but includes the supercharger, larger six-piston brakes, suspension tweaks, ‘Hellcat Wheels’, etc, but would not allow me the extra room to ceramic coat and tint the windows, which would be a total cost of $3000 for those options.

Really tough decisions ahead, but I’ve never been this excited for a car purchase, and I’ve had plenty of performance cars over the years, both of these cars have outstanding drive-trains/UConnect is outstanding, fit/finish is great, I literally can’t go wrong either way.

[Something interesting to annotate:

I’ve heard the Hellcat and Scatpack side-by-side, and the Scat actually has much more of an aggressive/robust exhaust note, both idling and driving for what it’s worth.]

 

[0388631]

Honestly, if I were you, I'd spring for the newer car myself. Unless Dodge is like Porsche and the computer can give you a full engine history readout.

 

[Matz]

Yup. The 2016 Hellcat was a lease from the previous owner, 11,500 miles/ Ivory white tri-coat/warranty/loaded. I honestly think the Hellcat Charger is truly ‘one of a kind’, and really what you’re purchasing with this car is the forced induction 6.2l. The downside, is that I really don’t prefer a 2016 (Being it’s already 3 years old), but this one is a decent savings considering what’s its offering and meets all my expectations.

The 18/19 Scat Pack I’m considering would obviously be new, LED interior lighting, includes Brembo brakes, 20 inch wheels, heated/cooled seats/wheel and of course Apple CarPlay as you mentioned. And another consideration.....I can choose my color on the Scat versus having to accept white on the Hellcat. The other Plus side to buying the 18/19 Scat, not also would I be saving some money, but I could take the extra money and tint the windows/ ceramic coat the vehicle/wheels upon delivery.

So, the trade-off being if I opt for the 2016 Hellcat: No Apple CarPlay, but includes the supercharger, larger six-piston brakes, suspension tweaks, ‘Hellcat Wheels’, etc, but would not allow me the extra room to ceramic coat and tint the windows, which would be a total cost of $3000 for those options.

Really tough decisions ahead, but I’ve never been this excited for a car purchase, and I’ve had plenty of performance cars over the years, both of these cars have outstanding drive-trains/UConnect is outstanding, fit/finish is great, I literally can’t go wrong either way.

[Something interesting to annotate:

I’ve heard the Hellcat and Scatpack side-by-side, and the Scat actually has much more of an aggressive/robust exhaust note, both idling and driving for what it’s worth.]

Tough decisions indeed.

Interesting, regarding the exhaust tone. But it goes with my impression of the Hellcat, based on my one test drive of a ‘15 a couple of years back. I found it to be pleasantly well-mannered around town, in that it wasn’t obnoxiously loud, no need to be overly cautious accelerating from a stop, and pretty much drove like a normal Charger. Except when accelerating on an interstate on-ramp, when it became very clear what the fuss is all about with these cars. An awesome ride.

 

[SactoGuy18]

I had a chance to test drive a 2020 Toyota Corolla XSE sedan (neé saloon) recently. While it's not the fastest car out there, the handling and ride quality is quite good, and I would get one if I could afford it. I like the fact the "launch gear" on the CVT makes the vehicle more "snappy" from dead stop, very useful for acceleration onto freeway ramps.

 

[vipergts2207]

I hate the enormous grills on Toyotas these days. They look like a caricature of what you’d expect a sport sedan to look like. Because even the Yaris, with its giant grill bigger than a Hellcat’s or Audi S5’s needs all that airflow for its air-gulping 106hp 1.5L I4.

 

[SactoGuy18]

I hate the enormous grills on Toyotas these days. They look like a caricature of what you’d expect a sport sedan to look like. Because even the Yaris, with its giant grill bigger than a Hellcat’s or Audi S5’s needs all that airflow for its air-gulping 106hp 1.5L I4.

Actually, at least on the 2020 Corolla, the grille design isn't THAT bad. more offensive is the grille design on a Lexus.

 

[vipergts2207]

Actually, at least on the 2020 Corolla, the grille design isn't THAT bad. more offensive is the grille design on a Lexus.

Yeah Lexus’ aren’t too flattering either. Toyota’s designers need to try harder. It’s like they don’t know what to do so their solution is to just make the front mostly a big black hole. And I like large, aggressive grills too, so designs with them should very much appeal to me.

 

[44267547]

What? You mean others aren’t fond of the Avalon Grill being 90% primarily fake?

Realistically, I gather Toyota is trying to execute—Luxury coupled with ‘Aggressive styling’. It seems Toyota is trying to gear towards a younger demographic, especially with the Avalon redesign. I kinda like it, but that grill would be a chore to clean with bug/road debris.

 

[vipergts2207]

What? You mean others aren’t fond of the Avalon Grill being 90% primarily fake?

View attachment 837963

Realistically, I gather Toyota is trying to execute—Luxury coupled with ‘Aggressive styling’. It seems Toyota is trying to gear towards a younger demographic, especially with the Avalon redesign. I kinda like it, but that grill would be a chore to clean with bug/road debris.

Yeah, that looks atrocious to me. Even more so since I know it doesn’t need nearly that amount of air to breathe, as evidenced by the fact that the bulk of it is non-functional. The Civic Type R does the same thing, but to a lesser degree. I think a large part of it is also that the grill isn’t really an appealing shape either, and looks like they just wanted to remove as much body color material as possible and still have it hold together in one piece.

 

[0388631]

It looks like a catfish. Or an obese Predator.

I kinda like it, but that grill would be a chore to clean with bug/road debris.

Nah. Presoak and a foaming lather with a boar brush works wonderfully.

 

[44267547]

Dodge finally stopped the foreplay and confirmed the widebody Charger ‘Redeye’ variant:

https://moparinsiders.com/yes-dodge-will-introduce-a-charger-srt-hellcat-redeye-in-2020/

“Dodge will indeed be putting the 797 horsepower and 707 lb.-ft. of torque supercharged 6.2-liter HEMI V8 from the 2019 Dodge Challenger SRT HELLCAT Redeye in its four-door muscle car. The Dodge brand will announce the three cars later this summer, according to our sources. The performance brand will be showcasing the new Charger Widebody models, very similar to what they did with the Challenger lineup in the 2019 model year.”

 

[Suture]

What? You mean others aren’t fond of the Avalon Grill being 90% primarily fake?

View attachment 837963

Realistically, I gather Toyota is trying to execute—Luxury coupled with ‘Aggressive styling’. It seems Toyota is trying to gear towards a younger demographic, especially with the Avalon redesign. I kinda like it, but that grill would be a chore to clean with bug/road debris.

Wow. I hadn't seen that yet. Looks like my Norelco.

 

[44267547]

Wow. I hadn't seen that yet. Looks like my Norelco.

It’s a fairly polarizing grill. I have yet to see one in person with that trim, I just don’t like that almost 90% of the grill is non-functional, which in this case, it’s a ‘love it or hate it’ scenario with a grill that large paired to the Avalon, it just looks like it’s ‘too much’ to the point where others are stunned by it. (It’s definitely not discrete in the slightest).

 

[0388631]

It’s a fairly polarizing grill. I have yet to see one in person with that trim, I just don’t like that almost 90% of the grill is non-functional, which in this case, it’s a ‘love it or hate it’ scenario with a grill that large paired to the Avalon, it just looks like it’s ‘too much’ to the point where others are stunned by it. (It’s definitely not discrete in the slightest).

I'm guessing the owners of that trim drive only at night to avoid embarrassment.