The Car Thread ... !

[trillionaire]

Ok, so.....

Here is a scattered/not very well thought out game plan on what I want to do, but don’t know quite yet what I will do.

I recently Watched the local unveiling of the new C8. I’m gonna be honest, I really want it, [like kinda obsessively]. I always make very calculated moves when it comes to purchasing my cars, taking months of making sure I’m making the right purchase that’s best suited for me. But this car would be an impulse buy (Yes, I have a problem), but what I think I might contemplate in doing, is selling the Mustang GT outright for the new C8 with money down.

But here’s the caveat, I don’t like purchasing the model year of any new car when it first comes out, because of obvious issues that may arise and I like to wait a year (or two) for the vehicle to mature and problems to be rectified.

The other caveat, is I put a lot of time/money into the GT to make it ‘my own’, and even though I won’t have a problem selling it, I’m not sure if that’s really the best decision given it’s not a stock car that I don’t care about, because it is a great ride.

I’ve never owned a Corvette, so this would be a first. I considered the Stingray back in February, but ultimately passed because it sold under me. Either way, I’m actually surprised how many deposits others are putting down on this car, and I get the price point for what it’s offering is fairly competitive, but this is the one Corvette that actually stands out to me among other models that I see Grandpa’s driving daily, that I may jump in on at some point.

Also, kinda cool, my local dealer has a really unique ‘flow chart’ set up how you can choose all the fittings/customization for the car from seatbelts/colors/wheels, etc.

Anyways, I’m leaning in favor of doing this, but it’s more of a timely factor of when.

Did you actually get to drive the C8? I'm one of those types that would always choose a newer model over something older. I realize the GT might have more heart because of what you put into it, but the C8 looks to be something really fresh in the Corvette dynasty.

Regarding the first year kinks, these types of cars don't have the 'roll them out as quickly as possible' developmental lifecycle of a Cruze, for example, so they should be a bit better suited in that sense. Also, it's a new car, so if you have to take it to the dealer once or twice to update some stuff then who cares.

All that said, if you didn't get a chance to drive it yet, then I would definitely do that before buying. The drive is one of the most important things for cars like these. I had a chance to drive the C7 Stingray and was actually pleasantly surprised. Hopefully the C8 will be even better.

Good luck with your decision!

 

[D.T.]

Did you actually get to drive the C8? I'm one of those types that would always choose a newer model over something older. I realize the GT might have more heart because of what you put into it, but the C8 looks to be something really fresh in the Corvette dynasty.

Regarding the first year kinks, these types of cars don't have the 'roll them out as quickly as possible' developmental lifecycle of a Cruze, for example, so they should be a bit better suited in that sense. Also, it's a new car, so if you have to take it to the dealer once or twice to update some stuff then who cares.

All that said, if you didn't get a chance to drive it yet, then I would definitely do that before buying. The drive is one of the most important things for cars like these. I had a chance to drive the C7 Stingray and was actually pleasantly surprised. Hopefully the C8 will be even better.

Good luck with your decision!

Nobody has driven them yet, there's sort of a "hands on" embargo till it gets closer to production (and there's still some tweaking going on according to PITK in GM engineering, I'm still in some info channels being a former owner).

Even in this market, first year rides can have their kinks: First year Z06 dropping valves, first year GT350 oil starvation (for non-track Packs), first year GT-R grenading transmissions, I mean, it's not necessarily a huge thing to be concerned with, but the first year, first run production is already sold out.

 

[A.Goldberg]

This is why I'm bearish on Tesla. Fans act like they're doing something incredible and the other manufacturers can't compete. Honestly, it's a matter of when, not if, the big manufacturers pass up Tesla.

Especially since Tesla evidently has no intention of refreshing the Model S and X. I don’t think they have the money to do so.

 

[44267547]

Did you actually get to drive the C8? I'm one of those types that would always choose a newer model over something older. I realize the GT might have more heart because of what you put into it, but the C8 looks to be something really fresh in the Corvette dynasty.

You Can’t drive it yet. But you know what? I’m not going to either, I just likely will end up buying it. I know that sounds crazy, right? It doesn’t phase me one way or the other that I need to test drive the C8, I don’t have any doubt that there wouldn’t be anything I wouldn’t like about it, I am already sold on the aesthetics and overall price/performance numbers as well. Personally, I like the ‘element of surprise’ with things, and Random as that is, that’s probably going to be my game plan with this specific car.

As for my GT, I actually feel kind of bad, because I haven’t really driven it that much since the purchase of the Scat, and as I mentioned, I did put a lot of effort into the car with mods, but either way, you’re right, it’s still a GT with mods, but it doesn’t make my car exclusive in any way because of my own work. The C8 is a totally different level of a car, which has a far greater attraction for me over my GT. So the separation factor won’t be that difficult, even though my path point hasn’t been decided quite yet.

Regarding the first year kinks, these types of cars don't have the 'roll them out as quickly as possible' developmental lifecycle of a Cruze, for example, so they should be a bit better suited in that sense. Also, it's a new car, so if you have to take it to the dealer once or twice to update some stuff then who cares.

Sometimes when it comes to ‘First year production’ cars, we tend to focus on more of the negative things that we do the positive things about the car (I.e. Drive train issues). It’s easy to nitpick any car when something goes wrong with it, but there are far more positives that outweigh the negatives, otherwise no one be in the market for a first model year car. I’m always just leery of the fact that cars do have generally some type of issues this first year, but it doesn’t make a difference to me, one way or the other, I Purchase what I want, not based what I read off the Internet or through ‘hear-say’ for everything.

Also, I also think it’s worth noting, just because XYZ amount of the first model year car experiences some mechanical concerns, doesn’t mean every model year will have that issue either. It can be completely variable or consistent, depending on the severity of the problem with the vehicle.

I had a chance to drive the C7 Stingray and was actually pleasantly surprised. Hopefully the C8 will be even better.

Good luck with your decision!

I like the C7 Stingray, and I think it’s a sharp looking car for what it offers. I seriously considered one back in February, which had a stellar price listed, but it quickly sold before I could make a move. Either way, I think the C8 will have a solid reception, and given the price point, I think GM tactically priced this for everything it offers.

 

[AustinIllini]

oh my god

Audi RS6 Avant Finally Arrives In America With 591 Horsepower

 

[0388631]

Especially since Tesla evidently has no intention of refreshing the Model S and X. I don’t think they have the money to do so.

I remember someone posting about the Model 3 DUs being used in the Model S and that seems to be a rumor at this point, because unless I'm mistaken, Tesla would have to re-certify those vehicles in crash tests and whatnot which costs a lot of money. And I say that because when a company offers both stick and DCT/auto for a car, both must be certified for safety, even though a transmission is not essential in protecting the occupants. Am I correct with my assumption?

Also, yeah, I've been reading they're bleeding money left and right, and that more top minds are bouncing to other companies, be it in the field or not.
[doublepost=1566359612][/doublepost]

Nobody has driven them yet, there's sort of a "hands on" embargo till it gets closer to production (and there's still some tweaking going on according to PITK in GM engineering, I'm still in some info channels being a former owner).

Even in this market, first year rides can have their kinks: First year Z06 dropping valves, first year GT350 oil starvation (for non-track Packs), first year GT-R grenading transmissions, I mean, it's not necessarily a huge thing to be concerned with, but the first year, first run production is already sold out.

Yeah it's going on show at various events. A museum here who has invited us to private events (think dinner, wine, orchestra) for their past events invited us for the unveiling in person and a private tour of some new classics. We had to pass on it because we had to be somewhere. Which I didn't mind because I wasn't interested in the Corvette.

Didn't you guys go to one?
[doublepost=1566359783][/doublepost]

oh my god

Audi RS6 Avant Finally Arrives In America With 591 Horsepower

What? It's being sold here? This isn't some joke? No way. I've been following Auditography for a few years now after I'd discussed my issues with Audi with @A.Goldberg. This car came up at times. Also, who or what exactly is
Auditography? I thought they were simply an enthusiast channel, but they're the official videographers for Audi?

 

[A.Goldberg]

I remember someone posting about the Model 3 DUs being used in the Model S and that seems to be a rumor at this point, because unless I'm mistaken, Tesla would have to re-certify those vehicles in crash tests and whatnot which costs a lot of money. And I say that because when a company offers both stick and DCT/auto for a car, both must be certified for safety, even though a transmission is not essential in protecting the occupants. Am I correct with my assumption?

Also, yeah, I've been reading they're bleeding money left and right, and that more top minds are bouncing to other companies, be it in the field or not.

Yeah, Tesla recently announced Model 3 drive motors being used in the S/X and a couple relatively minor modifications, but that’s it. I believe they did not change over to the M3 battery packs. As you my know, the same overall body style has been on sale since 2012 and is still missing things like door pockets, height adjustable seatbelts, visor mirror lights, ceiling grab handles, iPod integration/CarPlay/Android Auto, etc... Not to mention the overall mediocre quality materials considering the price of the car. Most people were expecting to see at a minimum a Model 3-style interior in at least the S, but evidently Musk says that’s not going to happen.

With the Model Y coming into production, plus the Semi and Roadster, an alleged Pickup, etc it seems Tesla doesn’t have the resources to invest a lot in the S/X.

There’s plenty of cars throughout history that built essentially the same car for decades (Jaguar XJ, Range Rover, Saab 9-5). That’s not really the norm these days though and it will become increasingly difficult for Tesla to compete with these dated models as new luxury EV’s come into production.

I’m not sure what the requirements are for performing new crash test ratings and how they apply to ICE vs EV cars. I’d think changing the electric drive unit wouldn’t require a new crash test, but I could be wrong. Especially considering the drive motor is a pretty small component compared to something like and engine-transmission unit or engine-transaxle and less integral the effects of a crash’s overall effect on the car.

 

[0388631]

Yeah, Tesla recently announced Model 3 drive motors being used in the S/X and a couple relatively minor modifications, but that’s it. I believe they did not change over to the M3 battery packs. As you my know, the same overall body style has been on sale since 2012 and is still missing things like door pockets, height adjustable seatbelts, visor mirror lights, ceiling grab handles, iPod integration/CarPlay/Android Auto, etc... Not to mention the overall mediocre quality materials considering the price of the car. Most people were expecting to see at a minimum a Model 3-style interior in at least the S, but evidently Musk says that’s not going to happen.

Did you flips your models here or were you suggesting people wanted to see a design regression in the S with an 3 interior? All those other things, yes, it's why I can't take Tesla seriously or their funky design that seems cookie cutter. The interior quality on an $80,000 vehicle is a joke. The E-Tron looks fantastic from what I remember in the video posted a year ago on here. I'm sure the Taycan, whilst more expensive, looks phenomenal inside.

I have no idea what VAG group spends daily in terms of R&D, but companies like Mercedes or BMW are very high up there in terms of expenditure. I don't think Tesla can catch up once luxury EVs, and by that I mean actual luxury EVs from a German quad group to the essence of luxury from the likes of RR or Bentley release their electrics. Or... as I've said before, Musk was never serious and merely wanted to spur EV development.

With the Model Y coming into production, plus the Semi and Roadster, an alleged Pickup, etc it seems Tesla doesn’t have the resources to invest a lot in the S/X.

I'm holding my breath on those. I suspect the Model Y and following products will have their own fair share of problems that'll take years to iron out.

There’s plenty of cars throughout history that built essentially the same car for decades (Jaguar XJ, Range Rover, Saab 9-5). That’s not really the norm these days though and it will become increasingly difficult for Tesla to compete with these dated models as new luxury EV’s come into production.

This has me somewhat confused. I know the XJ. Some generational styles were built for longer than the typical 5-7 year lifespan of a design, and most were that short or shorter. The Range Rover did, however, experience long life spans between generations with minor fascia refreshes. No idea on Saab. Never owned one and rarely if ever saw them on the road.

I’m not sure what the requirements are for performing new crash test ratings and how they apply to ICE vs EV cars. I’d think changing the electric drive unit wouldn’t require a new crash test, but I could be wrong. Especially considering the drive motor is a pretty small component compared to something like and engine-transmission unit or engine-transaxle and less integral the effects of a crash’s overall effect on the car.

That's what spurred my question. We'll find out soon enough I suppose.

 

[A.Goldberg]

Did you flips your models here or were you suggesting people wanted to see a design regression in the S with an 3 interior? All those other things, yes, it's why I can't take Tesla seriously or their funky design that seems cookie cutter. The interior quality on an $80,000 vehicle is a joke. The E-Tron looks fantastic from what I remember in the video posted a year ago on here. I'm sure the Taycan, whilst more expensive, looks phenomenal inside.

Yes, the expectation amongst the Tesla community was that the other models would get an interior similar to the Model 3 considering it’s design has been the concept for the Semi and Roadster interiors (and naturally the Model Y). Yeah, Tesla cannot compare to the established luxury brands interiors and I suspect will soon become a more significant factor.

I'm holding my breath on those. I suspect the Model Y and following products will have their own fair share of problems that'll take years to iron out.

That seems to be Tesla’s standard operating procedure for them. I find it a little surprising how long it’s going to take them to put a Model 3 hatchback into production.

This has me somewhat confused. I know the XJ. Some generational styles were built for longer than the typical 5-7 year lifespan of a design, and most were that short or shorter. The Range Rover did, however, experience long life spans between generations with minor fascia refreshes. No idea on Saab. Never owned one and rarely if ever saw them on the road.

The “Series XJ’s” (I, II, and III) is essentially the same car, updates were largely cosmetic or safety related. The production of the Series 1 began in the late 60’s and the Series III ended in the mid 80’s- something like a 25 year run. The “XJ40 Series” lasted 1986-2003 (which like the original “Series” has - couple sub-models), 17 years is still a long time in the modern context.

The Range Rover Classic ran 1978-1995.

The original Saab 900 had a 16 year run (1978-1994) but it’s underpinnings date back even further to the Saab 99.

I think it’s a lot harder to get away with making the same car for 2 decades these days considering evolving regulations on emissions, safety, efficiency, etc.

 

[D.T.]

The new S550.2 (that's a MY18+, post "facelift" model, mine is a '19 specifically) is __really__ fantastic.

Everything about it is an improvement, and even if you don't like some of the design changes from a purely cosmetic perspective, some of them create an objectively better experience (ex: lower hoodline for better visibility, improved airflow for better cooling). There's a ton of updates and improvements that aren't even generally talked about when comparing it to the previous car: headlights and fogs are now LED, all the shiny interior bits have gone from chrome to a more subdued satin silver, the cooled seats work way better, all the nice soft touch, stitched panels (I had the Premier interior in the last ride, but this is another step up from that), the way better designed/integrated rear fascia/quad exhaust, I never liked the color matched section (mine was black so it blended). This revision also added some new safety tech like lane control and some additional pedestrian collision prevention electronics.

The new Gen 3 motor is spectacular, it revs quick, all the way up to the 7500RPM redline, has plenty of bottom end (pssst, that's what gears are for ...), the dual Port + Direct injection is slick (high C/R, efficient, but without the issues of DI only). I've got a tune on deck and I plan to run FlexFuel on occasion (these cars can handle it, just requires a special tune), and with something around E70, we're talking another solid 35-40 HP.

So I've been a manual guy for the last couple of decades, including buying some cars that were only manual (Z06, S2K), it's been fun - and FWIW, the "family vehicle" has always been an auto since we both drive it, and it's generally a big, tow capable SUV - but I've gone auto with mine as well.

It's faster around town, it's a ton of fun with all the drive modes, the wife can drive it (she took it for a little spin yesterday, now THAT was some sexy, let me tell you ... ). If I was going to track the car, I might (and even that's 50-50 at best) have considered a manual (probably a GT350 for that matter ...), but I'm a convertible guy, so it won't see any track duty. With my Perf Pack car, it's comes with a 3.55 TORSEN rear end, so the effective output is strong but yet MPG friendly with 10 gears

It uses the new-ish Ford (GM co-developed) 10-speed automatic, that has some slick tech that's way better than "Your father's automatic" (lots of resources online to read about it, especially how the lockup/clutches operate). The various drive modes, allow it to shift almost imperceptibly smooth, or a little more aggressive, or really nasty Some of the modes combine with the suspension system, and they can be toggled independently as well. The transmission actually learns your driving behaviors and adjusts - it can go full manual operation (paddles) or a nice interrupt the automatic for a temp manual override mode that I like quite a bit (sometimes I like to drop a gear or two going down a bridge, engine brake a little). There's even a drag mode where it syncs up with the shocks, let's them squat hard, throws up a special drag display on the console

There's several systems that all operate together: active exhaust (that controls the loudness/tone), suspension (that uses magnetorheological shocks), transmission and even another new slick feature of the S550.2, the full LCD dash, it's a 12", full color display, that changes the layout, based on the drive mode (ex: performance/track settings emphasis the tach), and it's all configurable in terms of gauges, colors, etc.

The newer Performance Pack (I also had this on my previous ride) is better, some changes to spring rates, sway bar/linkages, tuning to the electronics, so while it handles better, the Magneride let's it also ride better. The dynamic dampening effect when going over roads with big humps/bumps, that would cause some cavitating in the old ride is totally gone, the sensors, shocks, everything suddenly figures out you're going to rebound too much and just stifles it, very slick, it's simply outstanding.

The color (with the fancy name of Orange Fury Metallic Tri-coat) is really knocking my socks off (it's a special upcharge color), sometimes it's dark, sometimes it's lighter, it can show some metallic details or kind of soften into more of a pearl iridescence. I moved over my existing aftermarket wheels, they're 20x10 and 20x11 with a 285/35 front and a 305/35 rear The matte black look fantastic against the orange, and I swapped out the chrome badges for some in wheel matching matte black.

Currently mods:
- aFE panel filter and tweaked OEM airbox, removed engine cover, removed sound tube
- Matte black badges
- M600 wheels / upgraded tires

ASAP mods:
- Flextune
- SmartTop module (allows one touch / latch touch / at speed top operation)

Near future mods (~2-4 months):
- LT headers w/ HFC (plus retune)
- Velossa intake ducts
- Convertible light bar
- Ported TB
- Paint strut bar / intake manifold (possibly ported while off)

Far future mods:
- Supercharger [?]

 

[trillionaire]

oh my god

Audi RS6 Avant Finally Arrives In America With 591 Horsepower

Never thought I'd see the day! I've always had a soft spot for this car. I wonder if MTM will send any this way as well.

 

[0388631]

Seems Audi has confirmed it, but I'll wait until I see it listed in dealer inventory. It seems smaller than the MBZ offering, and it should be cheaper at base price. I'm going to say anywhere from $90-100K.

 

[JohnR]

If you lived in KY, you could actually see the C8 in person. Corvette brought it out for a..wait for it...Tesla owners gathering event on Aug. 3rd in Bowling Green.

 

[JohnR]

Regarding the S/X interior refresh, Elon tweeted that it won't be soon, not never. Improvements are made incrementally, like putting the Model 3 motor in the front (and not changing the battery) to improve the range of them. Right now Tesla is focused on manufacturing the Model Y (patenting the unibody molding), building Gigafactory 3 in China (1st American owned building in China and fastest built building..breaking ground in Jan and exterior completed April/May with production of 3 scheduled for 4th quarter 2019), unveiling the pickup this fall, working on Summon and V10 of the software, rolling out V3 of the superchargers, and selling an incredible amount of Model 3's (and with 0 advertisement!). Plus Elon has Space X and the Boring Company. So I suspect that the Models S/X are not a high priority.
Oh, and combating the short sellers of the stock. Those people should be thrown in jail.

I'm holding my breath on those. I suspect the Model Y and following products will have their own fair share of problems that'll take years to iron out.

Years? We aren't talking Ford here. Or Jaguar. Or VW. We are talking about a small automobile manufacturer that builds an incredible product that, as of today, NO other auto company has even come close to making something like the 2012 Model S, let alone the 2019 S/X/3. Should I mention how the supercharger network is 2nd to none? And autonomous driving is coming sooner than later and that Tesla will be the leader in that too? Autopilot right now is awesome!

That seems to be Tesla’s standard operating procedure for them. I find it a little surprising how long it’s going to take them to put a Model 3 hatchback into production.

SOP for...taking years to fix the issues? I guess you haven't been keeping up with Tesla and actual owners. But let's look at say the Ford Escape and F250 super duty. Both built here in Louisville KY. Both had issues throughout their first couple years of production. The Escape had at least 4 recalls within the first year.
I'm assuming that by "hatchback model 3" you mean the Model Y? It's more than just that...it's actually bigger.

 

[bunnspecial]

Oh, and combating the short sellers of the stock. Those people should be thrown in jail.

What are they doing that is illegal and would be grounds for throwing them in jail?

 

[JohnR]

What are they doing that is illegal and would be grounds for throwing them in jail?

There are a lot on Twitter that post incorrect stories or outright lies in order to manipulate the stock.

 

[bunnspecial]

There are a lot on Twitter that post incorrect stories or outright lies in order to manipulate the stock.

And the CEO of Tesla has not been guilty of doing the same? Wasn't there a ruling from the SEC on that?

In fact, what it amounts to is that a lot of the pricing volatility from Tesla comes down to things like over-promising and under-delivering, as well as the CEO shooting his mouth off on Twitter.

 

[JohnR]

I truly believe that it is automobile manufacturers and/or oil companies who have the most to lose with the success of Tesla. They have their head in the sand and refuse to acknowledge that EV is the future.

 

[A.Goldberg]

Regarding the S/X interior refresh, Elon tweeted that it won't be soon, not never.

I think that’s obvious, assuming Tesla remains a viable company. The point is these models have largely become irrelevant for Tesla.

Plus Elon has Space X and the Boring Company. So I suspect that the Models S/X are not a high priority.

SpaceX and Boring are different companies with their own employees. If you believe this story that Musk is the only person that does anything and every misstep is just because Elon is too busy is ridiculous. Many CEOs have busy lives and multiple interests.

SOP for...taking years to fix the issues?

SOP to have disastrous product roll outs. Aka “production hell”. Or all the Model X problems. Etc.

 

[AustinIllini]

To quote a Marco Arment: “Tesla fans are the worst”

 

[0388631]

Who? Taycan interior shots have gone live. What a beauty. I laughed hard at this comment on Jalopnik.

Finally someone has integrated the screen into a nice flowing design and not a **** mounted tablet. I think this is Porsche’s foray into touch screen everything because all their current stuff does buttons, which is excellent. I sorta hope the idea falls flat on its face and they stick with closer to the panamera cockpit.

Agree with both parts. As much as I love touch surfaces, they're simply not as safe as physical buttons that you can manipulate while driving and keeping your eyes on the road. On the VAG front, I'd say Porsche and Audi have done surface integration better than MBZ. It's cleaner to have seamless design. I believe even the MK8 Golf R will get significant touch surfaces. Stuff like HVAC I don't really mind because it's a set it and forget it thing for me. Volume, track change, and similar need a physical button somewhere.

Voice commands are nice if you're alone. BMW's hand motion gesture is cool but your hand is leaving the wheel for a longer than normal time, IMO. Also you feel like a weirdo gesturing your hand in the middle of the cabin. I thought it was awkward to do, and it looks even more awkward when you see people in new BMWs do it.

 

[Bug-Creator]

ah, so then you are ok with Teslaq/short sellers spreading FUD to help drive stock prices down? Or would you admit that perhaps you don’t know that this is happening?

Elon got his hand slapped by the fed for tweeting something and since then they have monitored it I think. Yeah, he may have goofed but he doesn’t want the stock to go down obviously.

Tesla isn't making money and won't be anytime soon, so it's no surprise that the stock is highly volatile and can easily be pushed one way or the other by minor "news".

They for sure did some things right and others wrong, but in the end there are only 2 points where they "win":

- the image of being THE EV company
- the charging infrastructure already build

Everything else is easily duplicated or even done better by established companies.

 

[SactoGuy18]

I do think that Tesla will re-do the instrument panel on the Model S and X to be something like the Model 3/Y (a single large touchscreen, but the screen size will be around 17 to 18 inches (43.18 to 48.26 cm). And it will have a more polished look of the Model 3's steering wheel.

 

[AustinIllini]

I do think that Tesla will re-do the instrument panel on the Model S and X to be something like the Model 3/Y (a single large touchscreen, but the screen size will be around 17 to 18 inches (43.18 to 48.26 cm). And it will have a more polished look of the Model 3's steering wheel.

It will take more than that to fix tanking Model S sales

 

[jona2125]

2020 C8 Corvette cruising around. Spotted it while visiting a coworker.