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D.T.

macrumors G4
Original poster
Sep 15, 2011
11,050
12,467
Vilano Beach, FL
rims and tires is a mod? I thought rims were mainly aesthetics and all good quality tires are made to be the same more or less. I know different types are better for different terrains and some(for reasons are unknown to me) are probably racing tires....but for a road car, I didn't think it mattered. Honestly I also thought factory chosen tires are best.

Sure, purely cosmetic changes are a mod, i.e., a modification, there's nothing says a mod has to be a mechanical/performance change, sometimes, it's both :D

There are HUGE differences in car tires, not talking about car vs. truck/offroad, or vs. track/R-compound type tires either. There's all sorts of compounds and treads designs that are targeted to road noise, lifespan, performance ratings, wet vs. dry performance, etc., and tires are a key component to the braking capability of a car. Why? Your brakes stop the wheels, it's the tires that stop the vehicle :)

Wheels can also make a huge difference, first, in the size tire they allow you to run, but also in things like weight. Reducing - especially unsprung _and_ rotational - weight, will make a car handle better, accelerate quicker, etc.
 
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cyb3rdud3

macrumors 601
Jun 22, 2014
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UK
Domestic V8s?

'67 L88 Corvette

*drops mic*

:D





Right, so no forced induction bypasses the combustion process, they increase the power (i.e., torque) that's generated, by forcing more air into the engine during that same process.

To clarify, a turbo does not recirculate the same "air" that it uses to spin the turbine/compressor wheel, that's super hot exhaust gas. Basically as the engine releases the exhaust gas, it flows over the turbine, then out the actual exhaust system.


Both superchargers and turbos work like this:


Fresh/outside air >> air intake >> compressor >> engine/cylinders


A turbo spins that compressor like this:


engine >> exhaust manifold >> turbine >> cats/resonators/exhaust


A supercharger spins it like this:

engine crankshaft >> pulley >> turbine

(the exhaust process is no different that if the engine was NA (naturally aspirated).


Then systems have all sorts of flow control, wastegates, etc., to handle boost control and whatnot, which of course is tied into air volume monitoring, fuel delivery management, etc.

Additionally all that factors into things like __gearing__ for the final effective performance (gearing is so important, and so often not discussed, especially in the context of RPM ...)






I think all modern OEM superchargers are a PD style, that's where you have the compressor sitting right on top of the engine, it sort of combines an intake manifold - that's the same implementation as all the supercharged domestics (GT500, ZL1, Z06/ZR1, various Hellcat flavors). It uses two long tightly coupled impellers and outputs directly to the engine (vs. through an intake pipe), so there's always tons of positive pressure (vs. having to build it up), meaning a near instant increase in torque.

Of course, that also means in a RWD car, it can get squirrely really quickly. :D

Most modern turbo cars went to two smaller (vs. one larger) turbos, create the same boost but with quicker response, all sorts of different tricks, twin scroll, etc., it's gotten really good in terms of immediacy of power delivery, but won't ever match a PD supercharger.


Turbos are, depending how you define it, "more efficient" in that they use what is in essence "waste gas", the supercharger actually costs HP, I think I've seen estimates of up to 100-125HP used to actually spin the supercharger, but that depends in the design, displacement, etc.


It occured to me that Ford offers cars with both turbos and superchargers, and in fact, it's in the same _model_ line: Mustang Ecoboost (2.3L I4 turbo), GT/GT350 (5.0L/5,2L V8 nat aspirated), GT500 (5.2L V8 supercharged).

That upgrade sounds fantastic, and that's of course, the amazing thing with factory FI, you're just a pulley, tune, maybe exhaust away from another 75-100 HP :D
Hehehe indeed. Exhaust is already done with that in mine. 4” pipes on it now, with a remote controlled valve system so I can put it into anti social ? mode with straight pipes out midway underneath the car.

It’s very mean sounding, like out of that Mad Max scene “The last of the V8” especially combined with the sound of the supercharger.

Yet at the flick of a switch it is super stealth like, so wife friendly :)
 

cyb3rdud3

macrumors 601
Jun 22, 2014
4,081
2,751
UK
I skimmed through the post, must have missed it, the two shots seemed to imply its from the same photo shoot. I know some colors look different from different angles but never so much so I was wondering.

Excuse my ignorance, I thought a supercharger adds more "spinning" to "something"(crankshaft?Axel?) to make it run faster. I never know it adds more air like a turbo, I would still feel that air going back into the engine(turbo) is a safer install than adding another thing that spins with belts.



rims and tires is a mod? I thought rims were mainly aesthetics and all good quality tires are made to be the same more or less. I know different types are better for different terrains and some(for reasons are unknown to me) are probably racing tires....but for a road car, I didn't think it mattered. Honestly I also thought factory chosen tires are best.
I guess not everyone is that sensitive to it, and possibly it depends on where you live. But yes there are huge differences between tyres. And to be fair different people prefer different tyres.

On a small mid powered hatchback I really like the versatility of the Bridgestone Turanza 5. But when I had a hot hatch like a VW Golf R with about 370Hp the Michelin’s Pilot Super Sport are awesome.

And “weirdly” even between the same brand there can be big differences. Our old Mercedes AMG GLC43 was terrible on Continental OEM for Mercedes. But take the same tyre but with the BMW Star on it and it was a lot more compliant.

And I definitely stay away from those Chinese ditch finders ?
 

fridayxiii

macrumors 6502
Oct 14, 2011
343
599
Tampa Bay, FL
As for Minis, I once had an idea to get a Mini as a fun mini car but after reading online that they are more on the expensive side of things and reliability is meh...I never looked back at it again. I checked online and they seem to start at $22K which is very reasonable I wonder if they brought new models in. I don't see much of them on the road I think I heard once they are being canceled. As for history, I think those were BMW minis kind of like VW Beetle. Not a brand on its own.
2017 + MINIs have exhibited what I would call very good reliability. "Reliability" is somewhat subjective, however. MINIs will never be as fault-free as Hondas or Toyotas, but MINIs also have tons more character and are much more fun to drive. If rock-solid, bullet-proof reliability is a "must" for a prospective owner, or if they cannot afford the necessary maintenance to keep a MINI solid, there are better marques out there. But, the newer MINIs are much more reliable than some prior years.

Part of the key to lowering the cost of ownership is having a good, local, independent shop around who works on MINIs or other Euro cars. If you have to rely solely on the dealer for maintaining an older MINI (2006'ish) and you don't have any shade tree mechanic in you, then things can get expensive. That said, there is a TON of good info online, including YouTube videos. If you have a good set of tools, a Bentley manual, and some inclination, you can work on your MINI yourself. In those cases it helps to have a second car to drive if you have to wait for parts to be shipped, or if a job takes a while.

My general thoughts on modifications ("mods")...
In my mind, mods should make some positive difference on the performance of the car. Technically, adding stripes or window tint to a car are modifications from its original state, but to me that's just window dressing. I've added & removed stripes, and auto-related stickers (+5 HP each ?) but that's just for looks & fun. As @D.T. mentioned, lighter rims lower unsprung weight which means less power/energy needed to get the wheels turning and better response to the steering wheel. Also, less weight = more speed, another benefit to the performance-minded.

As for tires, aside from the big differences like truck vs. car tires, off-road vs. street, tires come in different categories like Touring, Rain/Snow, Summer, Ultra High Performance, etc. I tried to find a good source to explain the differences but have thus far failed. You can always Google for "summer tires vs UHP" and get details. Just for reference, here's a screenshot of the categories you can find on a site like Tire Rack.
Screen Shot 2020-09-04 at 1.39.15 PM.png


The main differences will be tread life (how many miles you can expect the tire to last), grip level, wet vs dry performance (grip), road noise, and ride comfort. Because MINIs are small, most do not include a spare, but come equipped with runflat tires from the factory. While providing some security against getting stranded, RFTs typically ride much harder and do not handle well. As I'm a performance-minded driver, and live/drive in a warm climate (Florida) I can safely run a higher-performance summer tire year-round. I sacrifice some tread life for much better grip and handling characteristics.

Lastly, there's the issue of "are MINIs British?" and "are MINIs their own cars since being bought by BMW?". The answer here is subjective, and somewhat splitting hairs or getting into semantics. But I'll say this: MINI is as much BMW as Lamborghini is VW. (That may be exaggerating a bit, as some MINIs like the larger Countryman do share some platform parts with the smaller BMW SUVs or Crossovers.) But my two-door hardtop JCW, for example, is pure MINI. It was designed by MINI and built at the plant in Oxford, England, where 3 million other MINIs have rolled off the line. Because MINI has expanded their lineup, some cars are made in Austria, but mine, which is the closest thing to the Classic or even first gen MINI available today, came from jolly old England and is British to the bone.

JOHN COOPER.jpg
 
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Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
56,994
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Behind the Lens, UK
2017 + MINIs have exhibited what I would call very good reliability. "Reliability" is somewhat subjective, however. MINIs will never be as fault-free as Hondas or Toyotas, but MINIs also have tons more character and are much more fun to drive. If rock-solid, bullet-proof reliability is a "must" for a prospective owner, or if they cannot afford the necessary maintenance to keep a MINI solid, there are better marques out there. But, the newer MINIs are much more reliable than some prior years.

Part of the key to lowering the cost of ownership is having a good, local, independent shop around who works on MINIs or other Euro cars. If you have to rely solely on the dealer for maintaining an older MINI (2006'ish) and you don't have any shade tree mechanic in you, then things can get expensive. That said, there is a TON of good info online, including YouTube videos. If you have a good set of tools, a Bentley manual, and some inclination, you can work on your MINI yourself. In those cases it helps to have a second car to drive if you have to wait for parts to be shipped, or if a job takes a while.

My general thoughts on modifications ("mods")...
In my mind, mods should make some positive difference on the performance of the car. Technically, adding stripes or window tint to a car are modifications from its original state, but to me that's just window dressing. I've added & removed stripes, and auto-related stickers (+5 HP each ?) but that's just for looks & fun. As @D.T. mentioned, lighter rims lower unsprung weight which means less power/energy needed to get the wheels turning and better response to the steering wheel. Also, less weight = more speed, another benefit to the performance-minded.

As for tires, aside from the big differences like truck vs. car tires, off-road vs. street, tires come in different categories like Touring, Rain/Snow, Summer, Ultra High Performance, etc. I tried to find a good source to explain the differences but have thus far failed. You can always Google for "summer tires vs UHP" and get details. Just for reference, here's a screenshot of the categories you can find on a site like Tire Rack.
View attachment 950338

The main differences will be tread life (how many miles you can expect the tire to last), grip level, wet vs dry performance (grip), road noise, and ride comfort. Because MINIs are small, most do not include a spare, but come equipped with runflat tires from the factory. While providing some security against getting stranded, RFTs typically ride much harder and do not handle well. As I'm a performance-minded driver, and live/drive in a warm climate (Florida) I can safely run a higher-performance summer tire year-round. I sacrifice some tread life for much better grip and handling characteristics.

Lastly, there's the issue of "are MINIs British?" and "are MINIs their own cars since being bought by BMW?". The answer here is subjective, and somewhat splitting hairs or getting into semantics. But I'll say this: MINI is as much BMW as Lamborghini is VW. (That may be exaggerating a bit, as some MINIs like the larger Countryman do share some platform parts with the smaller BMW SUVs or Crossovers.) But my two-door hardtop JCW, for example, is pure MINI. It was designed by MINI and built at the plant in Oxford, England, where 3 million other MINIs have rolled off the line. Because MINI has expanded their lineup, some cars are made in Austria, but mine, which is the closest thing to the Classic or even first gen MINI available today, came from jolly old England and is British to the bone.

View attachment 950340
My friends husband builds minis in Birmingham. There is no such thing as a British car these days. European. Parts come from all over.
 
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44267547

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@fridayxiii

I could read your posts all day long and never get bored of your knowledge with the Mini. Press on!

*****************

Edit
Speaking of which, last night driving home from work around the midnight hour, a newer ini must’ve passed me at least at 120 miles an hour on what we call ‘Hells highway’. (Which is known for being very dangerous, because it transcends in two lane only for 10 miles and the speed limit is 85 mph). And of course, vehicles never do travel the speed limit and this Mini that passed me, was shortly pulled over a Trooper. Needless to say, I’d assume that his vehicle was probably towed.😁But that thing was quick.
 
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bunnspecial

macrumors G3
May 3, 2014
8,352
6,495
Kentucky
Right, so no forced induction bypasses the combustion process, they increase the power (i.e., torque) that's generated, by forcing more air into the engine during that same process.

If you'll indulge me expanding on this a bit:

(Warning, another infamous wall of text ahead)

One major engine parameter is displacement. It's important to remember effectively an engine is an air pump, and the displacement dictates just how much air the engine is capable of pumping in and out in total in a complete combustion cycle(which means two complete rotations for virtually any gasoline automobile engine you're likely to encounter, and increasingly even in small engines).

In a "perfect" engine, we mix that air with gasoline in the exact correct amount that is needed for complete combustion of the gasoline(and no more), then light that mixture at exactly the correct time. In the cylinder where this has occurred, of course as this air/fuel mixture burns, the amount of gas increases in the cylinder dramatically, and we use this increased gas production ideally to push a piston. The crankshaft converts that linear motion into rotational motion.

The "perfect"(stoichiometric) ratio of air to gasoline is often given as 14.7:1, although with modern alcohol heavy fuels it may be closer to 12.5:1 or so. In any case, we need a metering device to meter the exact amount of(vapor phase) gasoline according to the air being pumped in by the engine. For a really long time, the most common way of doing this was with a relatively crude mechanical device called a carburetor. Carburetor rely on the principle that when air is put through a constricted area(called a choke or a venturi in carburetor speak), the velocity increases and the pressure decreases(the same principle that makes airplanes fly). This creates a low pressure region inside the restriction, which allows aeresolized gasoline to be "sucked" into the air stream. There are various strategies to ensure correct metering under different conditions, but none are perfect and carburetors will be "off" a bit under most conditions.

The way it's almost universally done now on vehicles is using a system called fuel injection. Essentially, in electronic fuel injection, a sensor measures the amount of air flowing into the engine(there are a couple of different strategies to measure this either directly or indirectly), the computer calculates how much gasoline is needed, and a tiny pump provides a metered "squirt" of gasoline that mixes with the air and then is sucked into the cylinder. As a check for all of this, an oxygen sensor in the exhaust pipe then measures whether or not the correct amount of fuel was metered, and it's adjusted. This provides nearly perfect fuel metering under all conditions, and actually provides a bunch of benefits to both engine life and fuel economy. Fuel injection can also adjust for the current driving conditions(acceleration usually wants a bit more gasoline, cruising a bit more air).

That's all a bit of a diversion, though, to say that ultimately the amount of air, and consequently the amount of fuel, we can put into the engine is governed entirely by how much air the engine can suck in. This sort of set up is called a "naturally aspirated" engine. There are restrictions that keep the engine from sucking in all the air its capable of. The single major one is user controlled-the throttle(which is a valve that opens and closes as needed). There are other things in the design that can also restrict this. When, how much, and for how long the intake valves are open are another major one. This is governed by something called the cam. Traditionally, cams are designed for a specific application, as doing things like increasing the lift(how far the valves open) and duration(how long they're open) tend to help at the top end but can cause rough running and loss of power at lower engine speeds. Often an engine with too aggressive of a cam will have a very rough idle, and also be difficult to even get moving. BTW, virtually all engines these days, including pushrod overhead valve engines, use some form of variable cam technology. Basically, using a variety of methods, the can vary the cam timing and/or profile based on engine RPM and load, which lets you have a cam set-up better suited to a range of conditions.

Putting all of that aside, though, if we want to get more air(and consequently more fuel) into an engine, we basically have two ways of doing it. The first and on paper simplest is to just increase the displacement of the engine. There are three factors that determine displacement-the bore size of each cylinder, the stroke length(how far the piston moves up and down in the bore) and finally the number of cylinders. Of course if we're using a single engine block casting, there's a limit to how much we increase each parameter. With bore size, we can simply run out of room to not have bores overlap(or not leave enough space for strength or cooling between them). Stroke can be increased up to a point-it's sometimes done in the aftermarket by grinding rod journals smaller and "offset" from their old position, then using a rod with a smaller big end, but this depends on such a rod being available. The manufacturers can design a crankshaft with the rod journals offset more, but again you can run out of room to do this. In the heyday of American V8s, most makes made both a "big block" and a "small block" V8. The small block often topped out somewhere between 5.5 and 6L(prime example-the small block Chevy 350 at 5.7L) where a big block could go up to 8L or so. Modern small block engines like the Chevy LS series and the new Chrysler HEMI can venture up into the mid 6L range(Ford does have a new "big block" 7.3L that looks to be a great engine for the right applications).

In any case, the market is largely moving toward smaller physical sizes of power plants. Regardless of that, though, large displacement naturally aspirated engines do have their downsides. One of them is that even under light load, they still use a lot of gasoline.

We do have ways of getting additional oxygen into the cylinder, but that's side tracking a bit. Alcohol based fuels require less additional oxygen to burn stoichiometrically. Compounds like nitrous oxide can be put into the air coming into the engine, which break down during combustion to add oxygen. You'll hear of some of these in racing, including cars that add nitrous oxide(usually "nitrous"), or often drag cars run on nearly pure methanol. These days, fuel that contains 85% ethanol is fairly easy to find(the gas station up the street from me has it) and even ordinary street cars can be designed to use it along with standard gasoline. E85, as its called, usually gives a nice performance boost to cars(although cost is often the main reason to use it).

All of the above assumes that we're using air at atmospheric pressure. Air that is raised above atmospheric pressure is more dense, and consequently a greater number of air molecules can fit in a cylinder of a given size than if simply using atmospheric pressure air. To go above atmospheric pressure, we can use a pump in the intake path. These pumps can give a significant performance improvement. More so, we can adjust the exact pressure increase they're providing, to allow more power on tap when needed but shut it off when not. This can let us have our cake and eat it too, so to speak.

These pumps to increase pressures can be directly driven off the engine. When that's done, it's called a supercharger. We can also use exhaust gas to turn the pump, and this is called a turbocharger. Both have been around for a while, and some engines(for various reasons) respond better to one than the other.

BTW, I do take issue with the common statement of turbochargers using "free" power rather than robbing it off the engine. The other half of the whole "air pump" idea of an engine is that after the fuel/air in the cylinder has burned, the exhaust products have to get out of the cylinder. They are at much higher pressure than ambient, so they will tend to flow out on their own once the exhaust valve is open. Still, though, the cylinder's upward motion has to be used to push the last of the exhaust gases out. A turbocharger is a BIG obstruction in the exhaust path that has to be overcome, and the engine does expend energy on the exhaust stroke to overcome the turbo. Like with a supercharger, the trade-off is worth it since the energy used is less than what can be gained, but it's still there.
 
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bunnspecial

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May 3, 2014
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Funny I love the original mini, and MG, but have no love for the Morris Minor.

I suppose it's all in personal taste/preference.

I like Minors for the fact that they're a more "traditional" rear wheel drive design and even though they're less agile than a Mini I feel like the ride is a bit more sedate.

Appearance wise, it's fun to be out in one in the US. One of the most common things you'll hear is "I know that's not a Beetle, but just what is it?"(of course you'll also have the folks who compliment you on your Beetle).

To me, the Minor is just kind of the quintessential postwar British reliable, practical car. Even though the factory never made a high output version, the parts exist to do it, and in a sense it's easier as they are rear wheel drive. My mechanic has a convertible sitting on a shelf in his shop(I find it a bit funny to phrase it that way, but it is a heavy industrial shelf, and he also has a few similar ones that have Midgets on them). His daughter, now 18, wants it and he sort of bought it for her even though she's stalled long enough that he's threatened to sell it. In any case, he's given all of his kids essentially "new" classic cars that interest them, but his rule is that they have to have some sweat/blood stake in getting them on the road before they can actually have them. He told me he knew this was a heresy, but he has a wrecked but running Miata squirreled away that he's considered for a drive train transplant into the Minor.

There again, all in your preference. I like and respect all LBCs unless they're Triumphs :p , and remember you're talking to a guy who in 2019 bought a non-running Marina and paid a nice pile of money to have it shipped to me :) .
 
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Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
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I suppose it's all in personal taste/preference.

I like Minors for the fact that they're a more "traditional" rear wheel drive design and even though they're less agile than a Mini I feel like the ride is a bit more sedate.

Appearance wise, it's fun to be out in one in the US. One of the most common things you'll hear is "I know that's not a Beetle, but just what is it?"(of course you'll also have the folks who compliment you on your Beetle).

To me, the Minor is just kind of the quintessential postwar British reliable, practical car. Even though the factory never made a high output version, the parts exist to do it, and in a sense it's easier as they are rear wheel drive. My mechanic has a convertible sitting on a shelf in his shop(I find it a bit funny to phrase it that way, but it is a heavy industrial shelf, and he also has a few similar ones that have Midgets on them). His daughter, now 18, wants it and he sort of bought it for her even though she's stalled long enough that he's threatened to sell it. In any case, he's given all of his kids essentially "new" classic cars that interest them, but his rule is that they have to have some sweat/blood stake in getting them on the road before they can actually have them. He told me he knew this was a heresy, but he has a wrecked but running Miata squirreled away that he's considered for a drive train transplant into the Minor.

There again, all in your preference. I like and respect all LBCs unless they're Triumphs :p , and remember you're talking to a guy who in 2019 bought a non-running Marina and paid a nice pile of money to have it shipped to me :) .
Friend of mine had a burgundy Triumph Herald. He was 6’8” and his head used to hit the roof if he went over bumps!
 

44267547

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This is the best marketing piece that I’ve watched with any auto manufacturer. Not also doesn’t really show-case the future, but the power behind what Ford is doing with EV. It’s insanity to comprehend that this will be a reality in the very short amount of time.



***************************

Also, if anyone has any experience with bring-a-trailer.com (BaT) with the bidding process as a buyer and overall how was your transaction, I would like to know your thoughts. I’m thinking that’s probably where I would be purchasing my next car, as the 2.0T Sonata is sold, and I’m looking to replace it.
 
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bunnspecial

macrumors G3
May 3, 2014
8,352
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Kentucky
For collector cars, BAT has a good reputation.

Read the comments before bidding, as they often provide far more insight about what's right and wrong with the car than the description does.
 

JohnR

macrumors regular
Sep 4, 2007
220
97
Elizabethtown, Kentucky
Performance mods for the street usually DO increase the top speed, but for many of us at whatever level we seek modifications, it's not about the performance at the top end.

Instead, it's about how the car acts when it's getting up even to legal speeds. As much as I like to dump on Teslas, one of the big areas where they are at least as good as and usually better than(depending on the exact configuration) cars 3-4x the price is the off-the-line performance. The throw-you-back in your seat experience(with comes from torque, not HP) is one of those things that a lot of us enjoy.

Aside from that, I enjoy driving hilly, curvy roads. Performance modifications help me in a couple of ways. One is that well-designed suspension modifications can let you safely navigate curves faster. Power(or rather torque) helps you out a lot here too-most likely you WILL have to slow down going into curves, and more power lets you recover your speed more quickly out of the curve.

I have the Standard Range Plus model 3 and it's quick! I have talked to corvette owners and asked them if they wanted to race (I always say that they will beat me in the long run) and they refuse knowing that they will lose off the line. Oh well...

And even acceleration while going at speed is very quick. I like to race the young punks in their modded hondas/toyo and then slow down to let them catch up, only to punch it and leave them behind yet again. :D

What some people don't know (I think) is that Tesla's have regenerative braking, so driving curvy backroads, just letting off the accelerator (took me a long time to stop calling it the gas pedal), it immediately starts to brake, which means better traction around curves. There's a test that they do (can't recall the name otherwise I would post the video) of cars that go through cones swerving to see how fast they can do it before hitting a cone or losing control. The model 3 is the best car ever through it.
 

bunnspecial

macrumors G3
May 3, 2014
8,352
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Kentucky
I have the Standard Range Plus model 3 and it's quick! I have talked to corvette owners and asked them if they wanted to race (I always say that they will beat me in the long run) and they refuse knowing that they will lose off the line. Oh well...

And even acceleration while going at speed is very quick. I like to race the young punks in their modded hondas/toyo and then slow down to let them catch up, only to punch it and leave them behind yet again. :D

What some people don't know (I think) is that Tesla's have regenerative braking, so driving curvy backroads, just letting off the accelerator (took me a long time to stop calling it the gas pedal), it immediately starts to brake, which means better traction around curves. There's a test that they do (can't recall the name otherwise I would post the video) of cars that go through cones swerving to see how fast they can do it before hitting a cone or losing control. The model 3 is the best car ever through it.
There again, no contest on off the line speeds in any trim for any car even remotely close to the price. My "upper trim" comment was in comparison to $200K+ supercars, which MIGHT beat a low end Tesla off the line, but then might not.

As you said, a lot of high powered IC vehicles, including Corvettes, can pull away in even a quarter mile on a drag strip, but from what I've seen in watching runs(I'm sure you know they're all over Youtube) most IC cars don't really start catching up/pulling away until over 100mph or so.

There again, conceding to Tesla(again, even if I may dislike things about them, I want to give credit where credit is due) at street legal speeds you're likely going to be faster than most anything out there even in as bare bones of a Model 3 as you can buy. Step up to the higher performance trims, and you can likely beat ANYTHING else out there if you're only hitting 80 or so. ~3s-ish 0-60 times in a $50K car(and sub-3-second if you stretch a bit more, although I don't know performance figures/configs off the top of my head) are unprecedented.
 

cyb3rdud3

macrumors 601
Jun 22, 2014
4,081
2,751
UK
No argument from me that a Tesla isn't fast. But to me it is a very sterile experience. Not one that wows me at all when one was already used to performance vehicles. I found it hilarous how the dealer got so excited on the test drive about the acceleration, and Jaguar was the same when taking our the iPace. and I was just a bit like meh...

My daughters old MK2 Golf GTI brings more smiles to my face when driving it, even though it is nowhere near in the same league performance wise. It is that feeling you get when the steering wheel is actually connected to the front wheels, when the pedal is directly connected to the throttle body via a cable, and when the gears are put in place with direct connection to the rods. It has character.

And similarly at the top end, the price category it is competing in just doesn't match the luxury experience one should get. I mean where is the semi-aniline headlining, dashboard coverings etc? Plush deep pile carpets? Double glaced windows and so on.

No argument about the absolute numbers, but for the rest they just don't do it for me at all.
 

D.T.

macrumors G4
Original poster
Sep 15, 2011
11,050
12,467
Vilano Beach, FL
I have the Standard Range Plus model 3 and it's quick! I have talked to corvette owners and asked them if they wanted to race (I always say that they will beat me in the long run) and they refuse knowing that they will lose off the line. Oh well...

Oh, I didn't realize you had the single motor/RWD model, those Vette owners should definitely line up with you :D I mean, don't get me wrong, an SR+, at least on that one performance metric (i.e., 0-60), in the low 5s is incredibly impressive for a car costing under $35K.
 

D.T.

macrumors G4
Original poster
Sep 15, 2011
11,050
12,467
Vilano Beach, FL
Wow, so speaking of EVs, the Lucid Air, Dream Edition just ran a __sub__ 10s 1/4 mile at 144MPH (that MPH shows a ton of power on the top end as well), and it can apparently do it over and over with less performance degradation vs. a Tesla, and has a range of 500 miles. Looks like that model is going to be sneaking up on a 6 digit price tag, but they're saying the "entry level" will be in the $60Ks Sounds about like the price range of a 5 series, from a 530, 540 up to like an M5.

I like this design quite a bit, has some character, love the really wide stance, giving off Porsche/Audi vibes!

1599403842943.png



I haven't been following them closely (was briefly aware of the company way back when it was Atieva ...), don't know about support, charging infrastructure, etc., but very interested.
 

MacBH928

macrumors G3
May 17, 2008
8,738
3,896
Hmmm...that tire talk is interesting, I never did drive a car and though "those tires are awesome!" or "man this car needs different set of tires" and never heard one that did. Another thing is the pattern design, can't believe this makes a difference sometimes I feel its placebo at least for road cars. So rims weight affect performance, but what about size? are bigger aesthetic only? I hear a myth saying that tires with small rims and wider section height are more comfortable.

This is the best marketing piece that I’ve watched with any auto manufacturer. Not also doesn’t really show-case the future, but the power behind what Ford is doing with EV. It’s insanity to comprehend that this will be a reality in the very short amount of time.



***************************

Also, if anyone has any experience with bring-a-trailer.com (BaT) with the bidding process as a buyer and overall how was your transaction, I would like to know your thoughts. I’m thinking that’s probably where I would be purchasing my next car, as the 2.0T Sonata is sold, and I’m looking to replace it.

Indeed, I always imagined electric cars are like rc car toys but bigger, after all its the same concept. Laughed at ford for turning Mustang in electric and thought they are riding the wave and another idiot executives choice, looks like I am very wrong. Didn't imagine electricity can pack so much power.

BaT looks like a great place for exotic cars, but the name doesn't match the service. I like that they share sales data with the consumer, always like to see some business overview/report. Some decent prices on some classic cars, but I have a feeling there is more to it than meets the eye. Sure it works, but probably needs another $10-20k in repairs soon. I really believe car manufacturers don't make cars to last more than 10 years, good luck with spare parts. One guy listed 1951 Jaguar XK120 LT Re-Creation, after a second look in the title is a "re-creation". Didn't lie but what does that mean? refurbished with original parts? or recreated from scratch? Thats whats scary about online shopping sometimes you miss details like people purchasing a box of an item instead of the item itself...as I heard happening on eBay.
 

Matz

macrumors 65816
Apr 25, 2015
1,161
1,690
Rural Southern Virginia
Hmmm...that tire talk is interesting, I never did drive a car and though "those tires are awesome!" or "man this car needs different set of tires" and never heard one that did. Another thing is the pattern design, can't believe this makes a difference sometimes I feel its placebo at least for road cars. So rims weight affect performance, but what about size? are bigger aesthetic only? I hear a myth saying that tires with small rims and wider section height are more comfortable.



Indeed, I always imagined electric cars are like rc car toys but bigger, after all its the same concept. Laughed at ford for turning Mustang in electric and thought they are riding the wave and another idiot executives choice, looks like I am very wrong. Didn't imagine electricity can pack so much power.

BaT looks like a great place for exotic cars, but the name doesn't match the service. I like that they share sales data with the consumer, always like to see some business overview/report. Some decent prices on some classic cars, but I have a feeling there is more to it than meets the eye. Sure it works, but probably needs another $10-20k in repairs soon. I really believe car manufacturers don't make cars to last more than 10 years, good luck with spare parts. One guy listed 1951 Jaguar XK120 LT Re-Creation, after a second look in the title is a "re-creation". Didn't lie but what does that mean? refurbished with original parts? or recreated from scratch? Thats whats scary about online shopping sometimes you miss details like people purchasing a box of an item instead of the item itself...as I heard happening on eBay.
Am I reading your post correctly, that you have never driven a car?
 

Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
56,994
56,021
Behind the Lens, UK
Hmmm...that tire talk is interesting, I never did drive a car and though "those tires are awesome!" or "man this car needs different set of tires" and never heard one that did. Another thing is the pattern design, can't believe this makes a difference sometimes I feel its placebo at least for road cars. So rims weight affect performance, but what about size? are bigger aesthetic only? I hear a myth saying that tires with small rims and wider section height are more comfortable.



Indeed, I always imagined electric cars are like rc car toys but bigger, after all its the same concept. Laughed at ford for turning Mustang in electric and thought they are riding the wave and another idiot executives choice, looks like I am very wrong. Didn't imagine electricity can pack so much power.

BaT looks like a great place for exotic cars, but the name doesn't match the service. I like that they share sales data with the consumer, always like to see some business overview/report. Some decent prices on some classic cars, but I have a feeling there is more to it than meets the eye. Sure it works, but probably needs another $10-20k in repairs soon. I really believe car manufacturers don't make cars to last more than 10 years, good luck with spare parts. One guy listed 1951 Jaguar XK120 LT Re-Creation, after a second look in the title is a "re-creation". Didn't lie but what does that mean? refurbished with original parts? or recreated from scratch? Thats whats scary about online shopping sometimes you miss details like people purchasing a box of an item instead of the item itself...as I heard happening on eBay.
My Golf came with a set of Dunlop tyres. They were so bad I replaced them when they were still pretty well newish. I literally couldn’t drive in the ice. Pretty dicey in the wet.
My Continentals are so different. Transformed the car.
 

44267547

Cancelled
Jul 12, 2016
37,642
42,494
BaT Is exactly 2 things, originality and rarity for cars. As a matter of fact, you can’t even list ‘your car‘ for sale on that site without it being approved based on the contingencies with extensive background, photos and videos sent to the editor before they make a decision that will allow any postings on that site. (It’s bidding only FYI.)

What’s really unique about BaT, is they allow the owner to specifically chat with the potential buyers through a thread, which everyone can see the comments/questions posed, ask direct questions And have ‘live feedback‘.

Plus, what I like about BaT, is that the actually hold the buyers accountable to make the purchase, as there is a deposit required on the vehicle if you win the auction -v.s.- eBay Motors, where there’s no accountability held to the buyer whatsoever.
 

bunnspecial

macrumors G3
May 3, 2014
8,352
6,495
Kentucky
Hmmm...that tire talk is interesting, I never did drive a car and though "those tires are awesome!" or "man this car needs different set of tires" and never heard one that did.

I have plenty of times.

I've driven cars(often without more than a cursory look at the tires before driving to make sure they're halfway serviceable) and said "These tires are absolute crap and need to go."

Even at the high end from the big names(Michelin, Bridgestone, etc) you often have two major lines of tires, the "sport" tires and the "grand touring" tires. Sport tires are usually somewhat lighter(in something like a 235/50/17, which was the size on my previous daily and one where I experimented with tires a fair bit) something like a Michelin Pilot Sport A/S(sport tire) was ~20lbs, while the OEM spec "touring" MXM4 was 25lbs.

Touring tires usually give up a bit of dry traction for better wet traction and low temp traction. The often use somewhat harder rubber(not too much harder) to give a good balance of performance and life, and the tread pattern is often designed for low noise and smooth riding(which you can feel both in the seat of your pants and in the steering wheel).

Sport tires usually have softer rubber, which gives better traction than a touring tire as long as the pavement is warm enough, but comes at the expense of tread life. The tread pattern is somewhat more aggressive, and gives better dry traction(often at the expense of some wet traction, although a street tire can't safely sacrifice too much wet traction) but usually is noisier and not as smooth riding. "Summer" rated tires can be dangerous below about 50ºF, while All Season can handle somewhat lower temperatures although they are not as good as a more general purpose tire at lower temperatures(and really not as good as a true winter tire).

Over the years, I've had touring tires from Michelin(MXM4 and some other related lines), Bridgestone(Turanza Serinity) and Pirelli(Centurato). I'd rate the Michelins best in ride quality/noise and overall wet/dry traction balance. The Pirellis were the noisiest but I thought gave the best dry traction. The Bridgestones are a good middle ground and I felt like had the best wet traction. One point Michelin has been emphasizing the last few years is that they claim better traction toward EOL than many other tires when new. I could reliably get 40K miles out of any of them. I've stuck to Michelin Pilots for sport tires, but get maybe 20-25K miles out of them.

Below those two tire classes, you can run into more economy tires. Many times these use harder rubber that gives great life ratings but can hurt traction. A more aggressive tread pattern often makes up for this somewhat, but makes them noisy.

Basically your standard all season street tire is a balance of a couple of factors-dry traction, wet traction, noise and ride quality, and tread life. You can't really improve one factor without giving on some of the others, and it can be a matter of finding the right balance that fits your application.

As an example, many higher end passenger sedans will ship with a touring tire, which really is a great meeting point of all of those factors. For sportier trims that can benefit from more traction, a sport tire may benefit the driver who understands its strengths and limitations.

And, of course, many folks no matter what the price will go into a tire store and buy the least expensive correct size for their car. This is especially true as wheel sizes have crept up, and you get hit with $300+ per tire for say a 19" Michelin or Continental run-flat, and those Dorals or Generals or whatever start looking appealing. I don't skimp on tire quality, but many people do balk at the cost of good tires.

BTW, my personal leaning is toward Michelin first and Bridgestone second, but Pirelli, Continetal, Yokohama, and several others make great tires. Even among "economy" brands, a lot of MG owners love the General Altimax(the selection of tires in our size is limited, and the OEM Pirelli Centurato carcass that's no longer made by Pirelli and is now a 60 year old tread design is only available in the US through one specialty supplier I know of for about $250 each).

Also, that's ignoring other big factors. In general, tall sidewalls give a better ride but "roll" in turns, while short sidewalls have less flex for sharper turning but also less to soak up road bumps.
 
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bunnspecial

macrumors G3
May 3, 2014
8,352
6,495
Kentucky
BaT Is exactly 2 things, originality and rarity for cars. As a matter of fact, you can’t even list ‘your car‘ for sale on that site without it being approved based on the contingencies with extensive background, photos and videos sent to the editor before they make a decision that will allow any postings on that site. (It’s bidding only FYI.)

The editors aren't exactly perfect. In the categories I watch(MGs and other British specifically) I've seen some real clunkers come through that initially attracted attention for their outside appearance.

Fortunately, the comment section provides a good check on this, as people who do actually know a particular car will point out both condition and originality problems in seconds of seeing it.

Also, I don't think it's fair to say they work entirely on originality. I've seen some really outstanding builds on there that were in no way even close to original, but were very well executed and made for an interesting package. Again, I watch MGs, and one I remember from a year or so back was when a car that belonged to a well-known member of the MG community that had passed came up for sale. It was one of the first 5.0L Windsor swaps done in one of the cars, and also had some significant sheet metal work to suit the taste of the guy who built it. It also had some fairly common internal mods, including nicely done Fiero seats, a wood steering wheel from a known high end maker, and a custom dash. The car wasn't really to MY taste, but the execution was excellent. Bidders agreed, and as best as I recall the hammer dropped at $40K(for reference, the last genuine factory V8 to go through there hit $25K or so).
 
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