The Car Thread ... !

[bunnspecial]

constant barrage of making repairs for a broken down British car that runs into more problems every time he drives it, yet he takes no time and/or pride to invest into the paint that looks like someone rubbed 60-grit sand paper all over i

I am formally requesting a citation for three statements here

"Runs into more problems every time he drives it."

1. Please cite where, specifically, other than a punctured radiator on August 15th, 2019, where I "ran into more problems driving the car". Note that this was phrased as an absolute statement, so I am taking as a literal statement and requesting proof that this occurred EVERY time I drove the car in the times prior to this statement being made.

2. Please cite photos or other evidence of the paint "looking like someone rubbed 60-grit sandpaper all over it"

3. Please cite where I have not take time or pride to invest in paint in the car.

 

[JohnR]

I want to show here some impressions of several cars I tested this weekend, all of them electric.

you left off the Tesla Model 3/Y. Wondering why?

 

[JohnR]

I’m a bit early, but happy Fourth of July!


This is the one car I wish I had time to drive more, but I do think it’s more of a track car, because it’s that violent in terms of how it pulls. (Over 650 HP/550 TQ)

Meet my Camaro:

View attachment 1801330


So here’s the details:

It’s 5th Gen Camaro

Happy 4th of July to you too!

Nice looking camaro. I like that color.
Is it the pavement, angle of pic or something that makes the car look like it's leaning?

What do you think of the Plaid Model S? I know a guy who got one fairly local (2 hours away) that I'm going to see on the 24th, can't wait.

 

[44267547]

@Suture

Its aftermarket carbon fiber trim. I don’t suspect it’s ‘real’ carbon fiber. Looks good though.

 

[44267547]

Happy 4th of July to you too!

Nice looking camaro. I like that color.
Is it the pavement, angle of pic or something that makes the car look like it's leaning?

What do you think of the Plaid Model S? I know a guy who got one fairly local (2 hours away) that I'm going to see on the 24th, can't wait.

Thank you. I was kneeling on the curb when I took that photo, so that’s why it’s posing in that angle with the wheel angled out. The Camaro was also parked out on a slight bend in the parking lot.

I watched the Keynote for the Plaid. There’s some really cool technology in that car, especially with the ‘invisible air conditioning’, now you can directionally use the display with your finger to point where you want the air to flow towards. It’s just insane to see that this car has over 1000 HP and fully electric, but for that price tag at just over $135,000, is a lot, but I’d definitely like to see one in person.

Definitely post some photos if you can to share.

 

[Septembersrain]

2022 Honda Civic Hatchback:

Available in a 2.0L or 1.5L turbo charged, and of course manual is available for both trims.

2022 Honda Civic Hatchback First Look: Spoilers Out, Smooth Lines In

The new 2022 Honda Civic hatchback gains a more mature look and more technology over the outgoing model. Get all of the Civic's information right here.

www.motortrend.com

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View attachment 1798681

Wah! So the Honda has the touchscreen radio like the new Corolla in both sedan and hatch. I went with used because that radio just appears just so invasive to driving! Is this a car you're interested in? Honda is a good brand though.

 

[JohnR]

I watched the Keynote for the Plaid. There’s some really cool technology in that car, especially with the ‘invisible air conditioning’, now you can directionally use the display with your finger to point where you want the air to flow towards. It’s just insane to see that this car has over 1000 HP and fully electric, but for that price tag at just over $135,000, is a lot, but I’d definitely like to see one in person.

Definitely post some photos if you can to share.

My Y has that air conditioner...just use 2 fingers to change directions. I'll have to make some videos, I thought you knew that?

This is the one he got. And he sent me this video. I asked him about the yoke steering wheel..he said that he likes it and when I brought up about parallel parking etc, he said: "I haven’t parallel parked but once you get used to it I don’t think it will be an issue. "

 

[Matz]

Speaking of cars, here's an update on my 2014 Dodge Charger R/T AWD daily driver/project car.

In May 2020, I had a Whipple supercharger installed, and some minor brake work. On Christmas Eve 2020, the engine threw a rod. It took five months to have the blown engine replaced and a few other bits installed. Unfortunately, the shop (National Speed in Richmond, VA) said it was not a warranty issue. The main cause of delays was getting the parts.

So I got the car back from NS, and it didn't run right. Idle too high, some difficulty starting, occasional surging while cruising, and abysmal gas mileage. Some parts were damaged in the process of their having the car towed. And NS was confused on some of the parts they were ordering, as they didn't fit the AWD Charger. Fortunately, I checked on the various company websites and found the correct parts, and told NS, and they corrected the mistakes.

But the car didn't drive like it should have, and I didn't trust it.

So I decided to take the car to a tuner that specializes in Mopars, and who happens to drive a modified AWD Charger of the same vintage. He's busy, but worked me into his schedule, and I'll have my car back this Wednesday, a week and a half after dropping it off.

He found that the tune was incorrect (too much boost at the upper RPM range, among other things), and has been tinkering with it to make it more drivable. It should now drive like a stock car, except when in boost, and the mileage will improve. It idles normally now.

He recommended an upgraded transmission valve body to help the NAG1 trans handle the increased power. He'll also tune the transmission. So I had that done as well. In the process his mechanic discovered that the transmission bolts were installed incorrectly, as they are location-specific. He fixed that, but it is a sign of shoddy work or a lack of knowledge by NS. Turns out that the Hellcat cam that NS installed is also not really optimal for a stroked 5.7 engine, which now a 6.4. That cam won't hurt anything, but it essentially was a waste of money. Sigh. Lastly, he found a small oil leak near the rear of the engine. Unfortunately, it will take some labor to find the leak, as a major undercarriage component has to be removed before it can be properly diagnosed. This sounds like a warranty issue for NS, but based on my experience with them, there is no way that I'm going to let them touch my car again. The mechanic suggested not spending the money to fix it now, as the leak is quite small. If it gets worse, I'll deal with it then. I'll talk with him more about it when I pick up the car this week.

So I'm looking forward, again, to having my car back. This time I'm confident that it's tuned properly. Plus it now makes a bit more power (550 awhp / 489 tq vs 480 awhp / 450 tq) than it did when I got it back from NS. Should be fun to drive.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Was due to go on a 4 hour trip tomorrow, so after a tip run gave my car a good interior clean. I can't stand spending a long time inside a dirty car. The bodywork could really use some TLC as well. But its a little too sunny for that.

Anyway trip is cancelled. So I'll be back to tip run's tomorrow!

 

[44267547]

Wah! So the Honda has the touchscreen radio like the new Corolla in both sedan and hatch. I went with used because that radio just appears just so invasive to driving! Is this a car you're interested in? Honda is a good brand though.

I always think Honda puts out some really fun rides, especially with the Civic SI, and they’re still one of the only few manufacturers actually including manuals in cars. If I had to choose though, I probably would just go with Honda, strictly because of the manual option, but both the Corolla and Civic are so reliable, you couldn’t really go wrong with either or. Must really come down to strictly preference of what you like that looks better.

 

[44267547]

My Y has that air conditioner...just use 2 fingers to change directions. I'll have to make some videos, I thought you knew that?

This is the one he got. And he sent me this video. I asked him about the yoke steering wheel..he said that he likes it and when I brought up about parallel parking etc, he said: "I haven’t parallel parked but once you get used to it I don’t think it will be an issue. "

View attachment 1802078

I didn’t know that with the Y you could change directions in terms of where you want the air to flow, I thought that was exclusive to the Plaid.

I watched the video that your friend sent you, and I didn’t know that the vehicle could actually change it stance for launch control on the Plaid. Just awesome all the away around and what a blast to actually drive that machine.

The thing that would take the longest for me to adjust to, would be the yoke steering wheel. That kind of scares me, because I’m used to gripping the top of the wheel obviously for turning, and when you don’t have that available, now it forces you to have set hand positions. If I recall correctly, I believe the Cyber truck will also have a yoke steering wheel.

 

[44267547]

Matz

Bummer about your Charger. Kind of shocking with National speed making some of the mistakes they did. You did exactly what I would’ve done,(Which was find another reliable source) and of course don’t bring your car back there, and definitely leave feedback for the shop owner/manager, they should know where they made mistakes and what they can do to improve.

But you know, I know what that’s like, where you put a lot of money into something and you expect it to run impeccably, but with such a major mechanical failure that you experienced, something probably bound was not to be perfect through this entire repair/build process. Idling is something that can easily be fixed for the most part, but the fact that the transmission bolts were not properly installed, that’s not acceptable.

You still have a monster ride, you’ll get it back up and running the way you want, it’s just the unfortunate drag with the time and money that you’ve invested and not be able to drive it when you want to. Hopefully this new tuner that you found, should be able to make the tweaks necessary to having perform how it should.

 

[bunnspecial]

Speaking of cars, here's an update on my 2014 Dodge Charger R/T AWD daily driver/project car.

In May 2020, I had a Whipple supercharger installed, and some minor brake work. On Christmas Eve 2020, the engine threw a rod. It took five months to have the blown engine replaced and a few other bits installed. Unfortunately, the shop (National Speed in Richmond, VA) said it was not a warranty issue. The main cause of delays was getting the parts.

So I got the car back from NS, and it didn't run right. Idle too high, some difficulty starting, occasional surging while cruising, and abysmal gas mileage. Some parts were damaged in the process of their having the car towed. And NS was confused on some of the parts they were ordering, as they didn't fit the AWD Charger. Fortunately, I checked on the various company websites and found the correct parts, and told NS, and they corrected the mistakes.

But the car didn't drive like it should have, and I didn't trust it.

So I decided to take the car to a tuner that specializes in Mopars, and who happens to drive a modified AWD Charger of the same vintage. He's busy, but worked me into his schedule, and I'll have my car back this Wednesday, a week and a half after dropping it off.

He found that the tune was incorrect (too much boost at the upper RPM range, among other things), and has been tinkering with it to make it more drivable. It should now drive like a stock car, except when in boost, and the mileage will improve. It idles normally now.

He recommended an upgraded transmission valve body to help the NAG1 trans handle the increased power. He'll also tune the transmission. So I had that done as well. In the process his mechanic discovered that the transmission bolts were installed incorrectly, as they are location-specific. He fixed that, but it is a sign of shoddy work or a lack of knowledge by NS. Turns out that the Hellcat cam that NS installed is also not really optimal for a stroked 5.7 engine, which now a 6.4. That cam won't hurt anything, but it essentially was a waste of money. Sigh. Lastly, he found a small oil leak near the rear of the engine. Unfortunately, it will take some labor to find the leak, as a major undercarriage component has to be removed before it can be properly diagnosed. This sounds like a warranty issue for NS, but based on my experience with them, there is no way that I'm going to let them touch my car again. The mechanic suggested not spending the money to fix it now, as the leak is quite small. If it gets worse, I'll deal with it then. I'll talk with him more about it when I pick up the car this week.

So I'm looking forward, again, to having my car back. This time I'm confident that it's tuned properly. Plus it now makes a bit more power (550 awhp / 489 tq vs 480 awhp / 450 tq) than it did when I got it back from NS. Should be fun to drive.

This is a real shame.

Unfortunately there are a lot of shops out there that either don't know what they're doing, maybe do know but cut corners for whatever reason, think that your work is close enough to something they've done before they can do some things exactly the same way, or are just careless on actually checking their work.

There's a real reason why I do as much of my own work as I can, and in fact if you read back you can see where I spent a lot of time sorting out what a shop did wrong for me on an engine build.

It's unfortunate too that there are a lot of really shady "speed shops" out there too. I think maybe part of the problem is that in the past, boring, stroking, and camming engines were a first step in performance modifications. Now, a lot of so-called performance modifications are just sticking parts on and MAYBE flashing the ECM to match them and actual hands dirty, engine apart work isn't as common.

 

[Matz]

Matz

Bummer about your Charger. Kind of shocking with National speed making some of the mistakes they did. You did exactly what I would’ve done,(Which was find another reliable source) and of course don’t bring your car back there, and definitely leave feedback for the shop owner/manager, they should know where they made mistakes and what they can do to improve.

But you know, I know what that’s like, where you put a lot of money into something and you expect it to run impeccably, but with such a major mechanical failure that you experienced, something probably bound was not to be perfect through this entire repair/build process. Idling is something that can easily be fixed for the most part, but the fact that the transmission bolts were not properly installed, that’s not acceptable.

You still have a monster ride, you’ll get it back up and running the way you want, it’s just the unfortunate drag with the time and money that you’ve invested and not be able to drive it when you want to. Hopefully this new tuner that you found, should be able to make the tweaks necessary to having perform how it should.

This is a real shame.

Unfortunately there are a lot of shops out there that either don't know what they're doing, maybe do know but cut corners for whatever reason, think that your work is close enough to something they've done before they can do some things exactly the same way, or are just careless on actually checking their work.

There's a real reason why I do as much of my own work as I can, and in fact if you read back you can see where I spent a lot of time sorting out what a shop did wrong for me on an engine build.

It's unfortunate too that there are a lot of really shady "speed shops" out there too. I think maybe part of the problem is that in the past, boring, stroking, and camming engines were a first step in performance modifications. Now, a lot of so-called performance modifications are just sticking parts on and MAYBE flashing the ECM to match them and actual hands dirty, engine apart work isn't as common.

Thanks. It is a real shame, and shocking that National Speed did things the way they did.

They have a beautiful shop, plenty of room, and so clean you could eat off the floor. Everyone is friendly, and the place is full of really nice cars, many of them really expensive. So when they started making bonehead mistakes on my car, I should have packed it up and left. But no, I figured they couldn't be that bad. Ah well, my mistake.

Funny thing is, the GM at the Richmond location, who's been there about a year and is self-described as 'not a car guy' explained how their business model was intended to address the inherent inadequacies of the smaller 'mom and pop' speed shops, by quantity parts sourcing, having the best technicians, a systematic approach to building performance cars, and a solid organizational structure. By organizational structure I think he meant 'corporate.' He said they are looking at opening another three locations.

What I now see is a visually pleasing but overstaffed shop with inconsistent quality control, and a tuner who evidently doesn't know Mopars very well. He works out of their Wilmington, North Carolina location, and remote tunes the cars in Richmond.

Once I get my car back from the other, smaller shop, I'll provide NS with some feedback that I hope they listen to. But I won't hold my breath for that.

Thanks for letting me vent. I appreciate the support. Now I just want my car back.

 

[44267547]

Thanks. It is a real shame, and shocking that National Speed did things the way they did.

They have a beautiful shop, plenty of room, and so clean you could eat off the floor. Everyone is friendly, and the place is full of really nice cars, many of them really expensive. So when they started making bonehead mistakes on my car, I should have packed it up and left. But no, I figured they couldn't be that bad. Ah well, my mistake.

Funny thing is, the GM at the Richmond location, who's been there about a year and is self-described as 'not a car guy' explained how their business model was intended to address the inherent inadequacies of the smaller 'mom and pop' speed shops, by quantity parts sourcing, having the best technicians, a systematic approach to building performance cars, and a solid organizational structure. By organizational structure I think he meant 'corporate.' He said they are looking at opening another three locations.

What I now see is a visually pleasing but overstaffed shop with inconsistent quality control, and a tuner who evidently doesn't know Mopars very well. He works out of their Wilmington, North Carolina location, and remote tunes the cars in Richmond.

Once I get my car back from the other, smaller shop, I'll provide NS with some feedback that I hope they listen to. But I won't hold my breath for that.

Thanks for letting me vent. I appreciate the support. Now I just want my car back.

What I found giving feedback to shops in the past, (most of which have been positive experiences), the ones that were negative, I gave them disclaimer that ‘I’m not asking for my money back’, but I do want to explain XYZ to you of what could’ve been different’. I find those shops immediately will be more willing to listen to you, because they only now realize that you’re not demanding to be compensated for their inconvenience of not repairing/building the car properly.

With my Impala SS years ago, I had an EVAP leak, and it was throwing a code on my car after it was tuned. Well the same shop that actually tuned that SS, couldn’t figure out where the leak was coming from even after extensive amounts of testing through replacing sensors, a smoke test, replacing a fuel line, the problem still existed. Eventually the shop owner looked at me, raised his hands in the air and shrugged and said I don’t know what to tell you. So I took my SS to GM and they fixed it within less than 30 minutes. I went back to that same shop and told them that it was fixed, and I told the shop owner it comes down to incompetence from your technicians not being trained to properly to effectively troubleshoot this problem in a reasonable timeframe, after all that labor I spent money on, GM had the problem rectified almost immediately.

And I totally get it, sometimes the smaller issues are the biggest problems, and sometimes you have to know when to walk away when there incompetence is showing, before they continue to waste your time, money and make more mistakes on your car.

And let me tell you, there’s nothing more pain-staking than not having the car that you want to drive during the summertime hours, because it’s out of your control what happens after the fact.

Definitely follow up and let us know how it all goes.

 

[Matz]

What I found giving feedback to shops in the past, (most of which have been positive experiences), the ones that were negative, I gave them disclaimer that ‘I’m not asking for my money back’, but I do want to explain XYZ to you of what could’ve been different’. I find those shops immediately will be more willing to listen to you, because they only now realize that you’re not demanding to be compensated for their inconvenience of not repairing/building the car properly.

With my Impala SS years ago, I had an EVAP leak, and it was throwing a code on my car after it was tuned. Well the same shop that actually tuned that SS, couldn’t figure out where the leak was coming from even after extensive amounts of testing through replacing sensors, a smoke test, replacing a fuel line, the problem still existed. Eventually the shop owner looked at me, raised his hands in the air and shrugged and said I don’t know what to tell you. So I took my SS to GM and they fixed it within less than 30 minutes. I went back to that same shop and told them that it was fixed, and I told the shop owner it comes down to incompetence from your technicians not being trained to properly to effectively troubleshoot this problem in a reasonable timeframe, after all that labor I spent money on, GM had the problem rectified almost immediately.

And I totally get it, sometimes the smaller issues are the biggest problems, and sometimes you have to know when to walk away when there incompetence is showing, before they continue to waste your time, money and make more mistakes on your car.

And let me tell you, there’s nothing more pain-staking than not having the car that you want to drive during the summertime hours, because it’s out of your control what happens after the fact.

Definitely follow up and let us know how it all goes.

I’m picking up the car tomorrow afternoon at 5, which is closing time for the shop. The tuner (and shop owner) asked me to come at that time so that he could have sufficient time to spend with me, given what I’ve been through with this car (his words), including a test drive. He mentioned is that boosted Mopars (at least the 5.7 Hemi) have a problem with ’partial throttle boost detonation,’ in that the PCM doesn’t recognize that the car is in boost while below full throttle, and runs lean with resulting detonation. It can be somewhat mitigated through tuning, but still requires a different approach to driving the car in boost. The test drive is going to include him literally showing me how to avoid this problem. Oddly enough, National Speed never even mentioned such a thing.

Anyway, I’ll follow up once I’ve driven the car for a couple of days.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I’m picking up the car tomorrow afternoon at 5, which is closing time for the shop. The tuner (and shop owner) asked me to come at that time so that he could have sufficient time to spend with me, given what I’ve been through with this car (his words), including a test drive. He mentioned is that boosted Mopars (at least the 5.7 Hemi) have a problem with ’partial throttle boost detonation,’ in that the PCM doesn’t recognize that the car is in boost while below full throttle, and runs lean with resulting detonation. It can be somewhat mitigated through tuning, but still requires a different approach to driving the car in boost. The test drive is going to include him literally showing me how to avoid this problem. Oddly enough, National Speed never even mentioned such a thing.

Anyway, I’ll follow up once I’ve driven the car for a couple of days.

Good luck with it.

 

[RSB96]

you left off the Tesla Model 3/Y. Wondering why?

I was not available to test the Tesla Model 3 at that event, as it was an event organized by dealers in the Spanish province of Asturias and Tesla only has dealers in Madrid, Barcelona, Valencia and Bilbao, if I remember correctly. In Europe, the Model Y is not yet officially on sale, at least in Spain.

However, a few months ago I got into a Tesla Model 3, I could not drive it, but I could ride for a while as a passenger. The interior quality I still say is not adequate for a car of its price, and that the BMW i4 will be much better built inside (because it is virtually identical to the 3 Series / 4 Series, except for the giant curved screen). It has poorly finished roof fittings, especially in the area of the rear seats, it is exaggerated, even a much cheaper car is better finished in those areas. It was a 2020 version, with the interior remodeled, and the center console has gained quality, not having everything in piano black and have a finish to "leather" in the console. However, I still say that it does not seem to me a car at the height of its price in terms of build quality (both exterior and interior).

However, I think that in terms of energy management, autonomy and charging network is still ahead of other manufacturers, perhaps the only one that comes close to Tesla would be the Hyundai group (especially in Spain, where there is no consolidated private infrastructure yet, and there Tesla has the advantage of having superchargers at strategic points so you can travel the country from end to end without problems). Dynamically I do not find it bad, but a little soft suspension and seats do not pick up much, in areas of curves you go moving too much of the seat if you go a little fast. And yes, it is fast, in that sense there is no complaint.

I still think that Tesla as a brand of technology and batteries is at a high level, but I think it still does not know how to properly manufacture a car. Every Tesla you see (new or old) has external and internal defects, many of them have moisture in the headlights (especially the 2018-2019 Model 3). And they are quite expensive cars in Europe (about 45.000€ the most basic with state aid). At that price you have Audi A4, BMW 3 Series, or Volvo S60, which although they are not electric, have a presentation and quality commensurate with the price. Tesla have manufacturing defects that are not seen even in cars under 20.000€ and that makes people begin to have some rejection to Tesla (in Europe there are more and more complaints from customers for this particular reason, especially in the north, where there are more users of electric cars).

The BMW i4, along with the future BMW i3 (not the current i3, it will be the new electric version of the 3 Series), will be the closest thing there is to the Model 3, and as long as it has a similar price, it will be more interesting than the Model 3. The future A4 will be fully electric and it seems that Mercedes is also going to release an electric version of the C-Class, so the traditional European brands will not make it easy for Tesla if it does not rectify all these details that, today perhaps many overlook because there is no other alternative, as soon as there is direct competition, people will move to other brands.

I also pay a lot of attention to those quality details in my work, so I am also quite demanding in that sense. 😂😂

 

[Nütztjanix]

I think Europe is also a very demanding market regarding build quality and materials selection, compared to other areas in the world. My impression is that Germans are particularly picky in that sense — I certainly am 😂

 

[Apple fanboy]

I think Europe is also a very demanding market regarding build quality and materials selection, compared to other areas in the world. My impression is that Germans are particularly picky in that sense — I certainly am 😂

I think it’s all over Europe. I’d never consider a US car based on build quality and materials used to be honest. Just not my thing.

 

[bunnspecial]

I think it’s all over Europe. I’d never consider a US car based on build quality and materials used to be honest. Just not my thing.

An opinion from the country that gave us British Leyland

(and I do hope you know I'm kidding-BL is basically an example of everything that can go wrong in a country's car industry, and nothing like German, Japanese, or other brands).

 

[Apple fanboy]

An opinion from the country that gave us British Leyland

(and I do hope you know I'm kidding-BL is basically an example of everything that can go wrong in a country's car industry, and nothing like German, Japanese, or other brands).

Nothing wrong with British Leyland. Those gaps around the panels are supposed to be all different! And don't forget how ahead of their time they were. You guys over there had never thought about lightning a car so it ran quicker. But ours did that automatically.

Engine oil that would remove itself from the engine thus saving weight
Bodywork that would rust away to reduce weight
Floors that you could see through!

But to be fair during the 70"s they were on strike more than they were in the factory so hardly surprising!

 

[vipergts2207]

Anyone watch or read about any of the Stellantis EV day stuff? Dodge is coming out with a full BEV e-muscle car for 2024. Be interesting to see where they take the lineup with regard to ICE components. I'm hoping they use the 392 and the Hellcat with some electric components on the new platform to up both fuel efficiency and HP. Also the rumored turbo I6 in the pipeline as well. Ram coming out with a midsize truck as well. All vehicles I'm very much interested in.

 

[JohnR]

I didn’t know that with the Y you could change directions in terms of where you want the air to flow, I thought that was exclusive to the Plaid.

I watched the video that your friend sent you, and I didn’t know that the vehicle could actually change it stance for launch control on the Plaid. Just awesome all the away around and what a blast to actually drive that machine.

The thing that would take the longest for me to adjust to, would be the yoke steering wheel. That kind of scares me, because I’m used to gripping the top of the wheel obviously for turning, and when you don’t have that available, now it forces you to have set hand positions. If I recall correctly, I believe the Cyber truck will also have a yoke steering wheel.

The air flow change is in all Tesla's. As for the stance (they call it the cheetah stance...low in front, high in back), that was a software update for the Model S about a year or 2 ago.

I hear you on the yoke....but the guys that own the plaid S all say that you get used to it fairly quick and that the full steering wheel feels ancient to them.

If you are near Wisconsin, I know a guy up there that's getting one and perhaps I could arrange a meetup if you are interested?

 

[44267547]

The air flow change is in all Tesla's. As for the stance (they call it the cheetah stance...low in front, high in back), that was a software update for the Model S about a year or 2 ago.

I hear you on the yoke....but the guys that own the plaid S all say that you get used to it fairly quick and that the full steering wheel feels ancient to them.

If you are near Wisconsin, I know a guy up there that's getting one and perhaps I could arrange a meetup if you are interested?

Michigan. But close. Can give any more information about your model Y in terms of what you dislike, or anything you would change? is there anything specific that you likes more over the other with your Model Y versus your previous Model 3?