The Car Thread ... !

[Apple fanboy]

No exhaust true but come on how often does an exhaust need replacing Radiator, no but replaced for the reverse using heat pump technology to optimise the batteries. Oil filter, nope I agree but again that was/is hardly a big deal anyway. You can do that on your driveway in a few minutes...

I had to replace an exhaust on at least two of my cars. Possibly three.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Petrol engines. Google any of the 3 German Names and "oil consumption." We don't have a lot of diesels by the big 3 here, they more recently started coming. The US has very strict diesel regulations, they either don't want to pay for the testing, or possibly know they wont pass (I think it's more the cost than the compliance).

Seriously though, if you were unaware, oil consumption is just a known thing in German petrol engines.

Mine is petrol. Obviously mine must have been the exception then.

 

[jimmy_uk]

I've had very few cars: Peugeot 306, Vauxhall Astra MK3 SXI, Skoda Octavia MK2 VRS and currently own a Octavia MK3 245 VRS. I'm in the market for a newer car but what a nightmare of choice! Major first world problems.

I'm over having a car with rubberband tyres and stiff suspension that crashes into every lump and bump on our pothole ridden roads in the UK. I still want power (min 200bhp) and a nice looking vehicle with all the toys (heated electric seats, all round parking sensors etc) but all the "luxury" badged cars bizarrely come with 19" alloys that look great but are totally impractical. Then you spend the time reading the reviews and reliability scores and all cars I'd consider (BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Jaguar) have known issues that would be costly, despite all the modern advances.

I'm not interested in electric cars yet and would stick with petrol. It feels like a bad time to buy because of electric options, which would likely reduce the resale value of a combustion engine cars later, coupled with the high used car prices. £30k-40k should buy me an amazing car, but I'm driving a good car now and feel I'm being constantly priced up (driven by the desire to have a better, more modern luxury vehicle).

I am desperate to ditch my current Octavia though as the interior is rattling and creaking like crazy and I cannot solve the causes, it's driving me insane! My MK2 VRS was fantastic and I knew I wanted it, regretted trading it. I've not really bonded with my MK3 VRS over the last 3 years despite its extra power and aggressive looks. I used to enjoy driving but it feels like more of a chore these days and every car on the road seems fast so you end up feeling like your just racing everyone just to get to work. I think I'm ready for a comfy, sensible vehicle than can pick up the pace if needed. Just don't know where to start....

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I'm over having a car with rubberband tyres and stiff suspension that crashes into every lump and bump on our pothole ridden roads in the UK. I still want power (min 200bhp) and a nice looking vehicle with all the toys (heated electric seats, all round parking sensors etc) but all the "luxury" badged cars bizarrely come with 19" alloys that look great but are totally impractical. Then you spend the time reading the reviews and reliability scores and all cars I'd consider (BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Jaguar) have known issues that would be costly, despite all the modern advances.

Automakers and the public have become obsessed with massive wheels and ultra-low profile tires. They put them on everything now. The 'stance' looks great but there are real tradeoffs in ride, road noise, tire/wheel weight and cost, and actual driving performance. When you look the norm in terms of whee sizes 25 years ago it's pretty stark. 17" was a 'big' wheel and used to be specc'd on some of the fastest road cars out there.

I love my Fiesta ST. In terms of fun quotient I'd put it up against any daily-drivable car out there (and probably even some that aren't daily divers). But it can be jouncy on bad roads.

 

[44267547]

Automakers and the public have become obsessed with massive wheels and ultra-low profile tires. They put them on everything now.

They really don’t. And it’s totally variable.

It depends on what trim level you’re actually purchasing. Typically in North America, with the higher grade of a trim level, comes with a larger wheel to follow. So if a consumer is purchasing the base model of a Camry for example, it’s likely going to be a 17 inch wheel as a standard median. When you start considering higher trim levels, like the XSE, that moves up to a 19 inch wheel.

Now, the exception would be, if somebody’s purchasing a luxury car that might be in a base segment, that might start with a 18”or even a 19 inch wheel.

 

[44267547]

Finalized a ‘Pearl white’ 2022 Model S. Delivery late next week, into the following week from a local dealer. This will my first EV. (And also a ‘blind buy’, but it’s factory new.)

@AutoUnion39 Any thoughts on my purchase or do you have any direct experience with the ‘S’? Or with the steering yoke? I’m pretty excited for that, but a bit apprehensive for a learning curve. I actually plan on just getting acclimated on the back roads before I go on any major highways as a safety measure.

Pics to follow…

 

[jimmy_uk]

They really don’t. And it’s totally variable.

It depends on what trim level you’re actually purchasing. Typically in North America, with the higher grade of a trim level, comes with a larger wheel to follow. So if a consumer is purchasing the base model of a Camry for example, it’s likely going to be a 17 inch wheel as a standard median. When you start considering higher trim levels, like the XSE, that moves up to a 19 inch wheel.

Now, the exception would be, if somebody’s purchasing a luxury car that might be in a base segment, that might start with a 18”or even a 19 inch wheel.

Higher trim is where I am at to get the better looking car with extra toys, so this route comes with 19" usually. I've considered buying a set of smaller OEM alloys+tyres and swapping out, but insurance companies consider this a modification and will charge alot or won't touch it, so it's too much hassle (plus having to store the original wheels for future resale of vehicle).

Active dampening is an option sometimes, but on the used market if someone has taken this option from factory, they have usually scrimped on other optional extras.

An SUV has been considered for the fatter tyre option but even these have succumb to huge alloys in higher trims. Smaller alloys get swallowed up in the huge wheel wells anyway.

For my eye, most of the vehicles that speak to me look like they have been designed for the larger alloy. But I've got to be practical.

*congrats on the 2022 Model S order. What a fantastic vehicle.

 

[xraydoc]

I personally love mine, after 15 years of being and exclusive BMW owner I can say the quality my Tesla 3 is comparable, only with more brains. When you look at how many of them are out there we're going to see some issues but nothing worse than any other car, it's just that Tesla has a target on their backs all the time.

IMO if one hasn't spent time driving or owning one their opinions don't carry a lot of weight, same can be said for any car really.

I’ve had a Model 3 LR for exactly one week now. Love it!

 

[Lord Blackadder]

They really don’t. And it’s totally variable.

It depends on what trim level you’re actually purchasing. Typically in North America, with the higher grade of a trim level, comes with a larger wheel to follow. So if a consumer is purchasing the base model of a Camry for example, it’s likely going to be a 17 inch wheel as a standard median. When you start considering higher trim levels, like the XSE, that moves up to a 19 inch wheel.

Now, the exception would be, if somebody’s purchasing a luxury car that might be in a base segment, that might start with a 18”or even a 19 inch wheel.

To be fair, saying they put them on 'everything' now was an exaggeration. You got me there. But the fashion for bigger wheels is a thing, in spite of some real performance costs.

The fact the Toyota Camry, a classic grocery-getter, starts with 17" wheels and can be had with 19s is the best evidence I can cite in my own defense! 19s on that car are just an odd fashion statement (if you want style, a Camry, for all it's virtues, is not going to be my go-to...). Yes, bigger wheels have accompanied fancier trim packages for decades. but the absolute size has jumped noticeably since the 2000s, after being pretty stable for quite a while previously.

It's not all bad, of course. Bigger wheels with low-profile tires can sharpen steering response, may have more grip, and look great. But you can find many discussions in place like Car and Driver and Autocar, among others, about the costs of oversize wheels - more unsprung weight (sometimes up to double the base model wheels), extra road noise, poorer fuel economy (or reduced range on EVs), and most noticeably, harsh ride (and more expensive!). You'll see plenty of references to ride quality complaints in contemporary car reviews, with oversize wheels cited as the culprit. It's true that engineers have done wonders with active suspensions and careful tuning to make big wheels ride better than they have any right to, but all that could be avoided by just speccing slightly smaller wheels. Sometimes the difference is marginal. But sometimes it's quite noticeable, especially if you live somewhere with bad roads.

jimmy_uk also rightly points put that vehicles are now styled to look best with oversize wheels. It's the fashion. The performance (i.e. best compromise between grip/ride/NVH) sweet spot for the vast majority of compact to full-size vehicles (i.e. excluding subcompacts and city cars) is probably 15"-17" or maybe 18", anything bigger is really just a fashion choice for most road cars. And sure, put 20+ wheels on a Lambo, it's a Lambo, nobody's going to criticize that. Though, of course, the McLaren F1 made do with 17s. Now you can get a Ford Escape with 19s!

 

[44267547]

To be fair, saying they put them on 'everything' now was an exaggeration. You got me there. But the fashion for bigger wheels is a thing, in spite of some real performance costs.

The fact the Toyota Camry, a classic grocery-getter, starts with 17" wheels and can be had with 19s is the best evidence I can cite in my own defense! 19s on that car are just an odd fashion statement (if you want style, a Camry, for all it's virtues, is not going to be my go-to...). Yes, bigger wheels have accompanied fancier trim packages for decades. but the absolute size has jumped noticeably since the 2000s, after being pretty stable for quite a while previously.

It's not all bad, of course. Bigger wheels with low-profile tires can sharpen steering response, may have more grip, and look great. But you can find many discussions in place like Car and Driver and Autocar, among others, about the costs of oversize wheels - more unsprung weight (sometimes up to double the base model wheels), extra road noise, poorer fuel economy (or reduced range on EVs), and most noticeably, harsh ride (and more expensive!). You'll see plenty of references to ride quality complaints in contemporary car reviews, with oversize wheels cited as the culprit. It's true that engineers have done wonders with active suspensions and careful tuning to make big wheels ride better than they have any right to, but all that could be avoided by just speccing slightly smaller wheels. Sometimes the difference is marginal. But sometimes it's quite noticeable, especially if you live somewhere with bad roads.

jimmy_uk also rightly points put that vehicles are now styled to look best with oversize wheels. It's the fashion. The performance (i.e. best compromise between grip/ride/NVH) sweet spot for the vast majority of compact to full-size vehicles (i.e. excluding subcompacts and city cars) is probably 15"-17" or maybe 18", anything bigger is really just a fashion choice for most road cars. And sure, put 20+ wheels on a Lambo, it's a Lambo, nobody's going to criticize that. Though, of course, the McLaren F1 made do with 17s. Now you can get a Ford Escape with 19s!

I’ve had enough performance cars where I swapped the smaller OEM wheel for a larger aftermarket wheel with low profile tires. The trade-off, isn’t necessarily the wheel itself, but it’s the tire that doesn’t have enough sidewall to help also absorb the impact of shock. So Yes, the ‘ride quality’ will degrade in terms of feeling more jarring for sure, but I also would say that it depends on what kind suspension set up the vehicle has to, which can also be electronically controlled in some vehicles.

My issue also with lower profile tires, it doesn’t take much to get a flat for obvious reasons, but then again; I think the majority people who owns sports cars, probably only seasonally drive them or joy-ride on weekends like myself, where they probably don’t care enough about the ride quality -versus- enjoying the ‘fun factor’.

But, then there are technological advancements like ‘magnetic ride control’, that really help change the dynamic of driving on variable road conditions to create a smoother ride experience that comes with a price tag.

 

[Nütztjanix]

No exhaust true but come on how often does an exhaust need replacing Radiator, no but replaced for the reverse using heat pump technology to optimise the batteries. Oil filter, nope I agree but again that was/is hardly a big deal anyway. You can do that on your driveway in a few minutes...

You are the exception. VAG manuals indicate that oil consumption is normal as long as it is less than 1 quart per oil change. I think it's in BMW manuals as well.

My 31 year old VW Passat is on his second exhaust, and ever since I own it (17 years and about 130.000 km) I've never had to refill oil between the oil changes — even though I use thinner oil than what was available at the time he was developed.
Granted, it's not a "new" German car, but even in his manual it's stated that everything up to 1l/1.000 km is okay.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I had to replace an exhaust on at least two of my cars. Possibly three.

That is unusual or you keep them for a very long time. If I had to replace one I would have had put on a stainless steel one so never had to do it again.

They really don’t. And it’s totally variable.

It depends on what trim level you’re actually purchasing. Typically in North America, with the higher grade of a trim level, comes with a larger wheel to follow. So if a consumer is purchasing the base model of a Camry for example, it’s likely going to be a 17 inch wheel as a standard median. When you start considering higher trim levels, like the XSE, that moves up to a 19 inch wheel.

Now, the exception would be, if somebody’s purchasing a luxury car that might be in a base segment, that might start with a 18”or even a 19 inch wheel.

Higher trim is where I am at to get the better looking car with extra toys, so this route comes with 19" usually. I've considered buying a set of smaller OEM alloys+tyres and swapping out, but insurance companies consider this a modification and will charge alot or won't touch it, so it's too much hassle (plus having to store the original wheels for future resale of vehicle).

Active dampening is an option sometimes, but on the used market if someone has taken this option from factory, they have usually scrimped on other optional extras.

An SUV has been considered for the fatter tyre option but even these have succumb to huge alloys in higher trims. Smaller alloys get swallowed up in the huge wheel wells anyway.

For my eye, most of the vehicles that speak to me look like they have been designed for the larger alloy. But I've got to be practical.

*congrats on the 2022 Model S order. What a fantastic vehicle.

Part of the bigger wheels with the performance orientate vehicles is that the brakes need to fit as well. Gone are the days that a base model had less than 100Hp and the performance is 150Hp. These 300Hp plus cars need brakes to suit, and are heavier than ever before. Our Range Rover has 510Hp as standard comes with big 6 pot brakes, even our EV has the equivalent of 476Hp and yes 19" are the smallest wheels but have some nice bit of rubber around them.

I don't mind larger wheels if the weight is in check, I find with the tarted up models they haven't put proper big wheels on it and made the unsprung weight even more.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I’ve had enough performance cars where I swapped the smaller OEM wheel for a larger aftermarket wheel with low profile tires. The trade-off, isn’t necessarily the wheel itself, but it’s the tire that doesn’t have enough sidewall to help also absorb the impact of shock. So Yes, the ‘ride quality’ will degrade in terms of feeling more jarring for sure, but I also would say that it depends on what kind suspension set up the vehicle has to, which can also be electronically controlled in some vehicles.

My issue also with lower profile tires, it doesn’t take much to get a flat for obvious reasons, but then again; I think the majority people who owns sports cars, probably only seasonally drive them or joy-ride on weekends like myself, where they probably don’t care enough about the ride quality -versus- enjoying the ‘fun factor’.

But, then there are technological advancements like ‘magnetic ride control’, that really help change the dynamic of driving on variable road conditions to create a smoother ride experience that comes with a price tag.

Sidewall is important. Big wheels typically require a quite low profile tire to keep overall wheel arch dimensions within the bounds of sanity. Suspension tuning can do a lot to help improve the ride - though usually that only works effectively on relatively smooth roads. Hit a pothole or a damaged stretch of road and you'll be transported back to the joys of travel in the 17th century.

Part of the bigger wheels with the performance orientate vehicles is that the brakes need to fit as well. Gone are the days that a base model had less than 100Hp and the performance is 150Hp. These 300Hp plus cars need brakes to suit, and are heavier than ever before. Our Range Rover has 510Hp as standard comes with big 6 pot brakes, even our EV has the equivalent of 476Hp and yes 19" are the smallest wheels but have some nice bit of rubber around them.

I don't mind larger wheels if the weight is in check, I find with the tarted up models they haven't put proper big wheels on it and made the unsprung weight even more.

Good point. Though I'd suggest it's less about power than weight (Praised Be Colin Chapman). It's a truism that decreasing weight solves virtually all the other design problems. But increasing consumer comfort/feature expectations and safety legislation has caused cars to get bigger and flabbier, which requires more power and bigger brakes (and more rubber) to keep performance competitive. More weight demands bigger brakes, which in turn means wheels big enough to contain them. Add on top the styling allure of big wheels and the trend is clearly explained, even with the costs I detailed previously. And, as mentioned before, if you style the wheel arches to fit 19" wheels, 17" wheels look 'wrong.' Everything tends to push the big wheel trend onwards.

The big wheels look weirdest to me (from a functional standpoint) on SUVs, especially ones advertised as having some off-road credibility. It's true big tires are useful off road, but not low profile tires...

The McLaren F1 got by with 17s because of careful design to 1) keep weight low and 2) establish useful cooling airflow over the brakes. Most designs prefer instead to focus on adding more power and features, with bigger wheels and brakes being the easy way to compensate.

 

[bunnspecial]

At the end of the day, no matter how the suspension is set up, it's hard to get around the big flap of rubber(the sidewall) between the wheel and the road. Softer suspension can make up for some of the harshness of low profile tires(which do have less sidewall flex) but it can't completely compensate for taller sidewall with more flex.

With that said, in generally I prefer a taller sidewall for the cushier ride that it gives and things like it being easier to avoid curb rash or be less likely to have a nasty pothole bend your rim.

Also, I know some people love the appearance of big wheels, but to me it depends on the car. I hate, for example, seeing a 50s or 60s car with an 17"+ wheel and no sidewall. The sidewall is a big part of the look of the car(whether a whitewall, black wall, or raised white letter), often combined with a simple wheel, and adding a big wheel offsets this. Aside from that, most American cars of this age have fairly primitive suspension, sloppy steering, and just overall vague and wallowy handling that no amount of tiny sidewall is going to fix. Yes, that's true of muscle cars too-they are go fast cars, not good handling cars. European, and especially British, family haulers of the era often handle surprisingly well compared to their American counterparts(every time I drive a Morris Minor, for example, I'm surprised by how crisp it feels) but wheels and tires aren't going to do too much for you.

Yes, it's true that many higher trim cars now have massive brakes that require a big car. I know I've been argued with about this in this thread in the past , but massive brakes on a street driven car really offer no compelling advantage outside of towing. By and large, the tires are the biggest limit to braking power in most vehicles, and slapping bigger brakes on just makes them "grabbier" and doesn't really aid stopping distance. Larger brakes can soak up a lot more heat, but I'd venture to guess that even in spirited street driving few folks have ever experience brake fade on a modern vehicle unless they routinely tow 10,000lb trailers down 5 miles of mountain roads or have a sticky pad/shoe/caliper(which is a separate issue). On a sports car or muscle car, outside the track you're likely not going to make a dozen 60-0 stops in 5 minutes, and if you are I'd question how you drive.

One of my biggest annoyances in all of this too is that you really can't find good tires in smaller sizes and especially with taller sidewalls. In 7 years of ownership I've bought two sets of tires for the MG(didn't really need the second set, but was changing wheels and it was cheaper than pulling and remounting my already 5 year old tires) and in a 14" 175/70 or 185/70 the best tires I can generally find are sometimes derisively called "Minivan tires." Granted I CAN buy new Pirelli branded tires with the OEM tread pattern for my car(not sure if Pirelli makes them or if one of the specialty suppliers just has the molds for them) but my "minivan" tires with a modern tread pattern have better grip in all conditions plus are smoother than OEM. I suspect they're quieter also, but road noise is such a small part of the overall sound profile of the car that I can't really evaluate that. That's one of the main reasons why people sometimes go to 15" wheels(the other reasons are to go to a modern alloy wheel and also to get away from spline drive wires, which look incredible but also are have a ton of flex). Tire selection in 15" is SOMEWHAT better...

 

[Apple fanboy]

That is unusual or you keep them for a very long time. If I had to replace one I would have had put on a stainless steel one so never had to do it again.




Part of the bigger wheels with the performance orientate vehicles is that the brakes need to fit as well. Gone are the days that a base model had less than 100Hp and the performance is 150Hp. These 300Hp plus cars need brakes to suit, and are heavier than ever before. Our Range Rover has 510Hp as standard comes with big 6 pot brakes, even our EV has the equivalent of 476Hp and yes 19" are the smallest wheels but have some nice bit of rubber around them.

I don't mind larger wheels if the weight is in check, I find with the tarted up models they haven't put proper big wheels on it and made the unsprung weight even more.

None of the cars were owned for more than 5 years as I recall. One was high mileage and older when I got it, so fair enough. The other was low mileage and 3-4 years old. Can’t remember the first one I had to do. It was a long time ago.

 

[44267547]

Sidewall is important. Big wheels typically require a quite low profile tire to keep overall wheel arch dimensions within the bounds of sanity. Suspension tuning can do a lot to help improve the ride - though usually that only works effectively on relatively smooth roads. Hit a pothole or a damaged stretch of road and you'll be transported back to the joys of travel in the 17th century.

I think I find a happy median of a ‘good’ tire with a thick side wall would probably be an 18 inch wheel paired with like a Goodyear Eagle or Continental tire.

Here in the Midwest, our road infrastructure is not very good, as you can probably figure out why with snow plows, hot/cold temperatures warping the roads over the course of time, and A lot of municipalities use asphalt over concrete (Being it’s cheaper), which asphalt has a considerable shorter lifespan and once it starts to crack/fall apart, it’s just a vicious cycle of patching potholes, which just creates more unevenness in the roads. It’s one of the things I don’t like about living in the Midwest, is shoddy roads, with the exception of the highways.

 

[JT2002TJ]

The new Rams have an option for 22" wheels. My 2015 Ram came with 20". I'm a Jeep guy from back in the day, I used to have 35" tires on a 15" wheel. Those days are done.

One nice thing about the bigger brakes is, with the added weight going into a lot of these vehicles, stopping distance (at least from what I've noticed) has either remained the same or slightly reduced.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I think I find a happy median of a ‘good’ tire with a thick side wall would probably be an 18 inch wheel paired with like a Goodyear Eagle or Continental tire.

Here in the Midwest, our road infrastructure is not very good, as you can probably figure out why with snow plows, hot/cold temperatures warping the roads over the course of time, and A lot of municipalities use asphalt over concrete (Being it’s cheaper), which asphalt has a considerable shorter lifespan and once it starts to crack/fall apart, it’s just a vicious cycle of patching potholes, which just creates more unevenness in the roads. It’s one of the things I don’t like about living in the Midwest, is shoddy roads, with the exception of the highways.

I've spent most of my life in the midwest, and bad pavement is a fact of life. I've hit potholes in my Fiesta ST that bruised my soul. I'm actually surprised my winter wheel set is still round. Back in my college years I hit a pothole so big and nasty that I taco'd a steel wheel.

One nice thing about the bigger brakes is, with the added weight going into a lot of these vehicles, stopping distance (at least from what I've noticed) has either remained the same or slightly reduced.

True, but the downside is increased cost for the same performance. The bigger the brakes, the more they cost to maintain. And, speaking of the midwest, corrosion is a HUGE problem with brakes. I have to replace rotors twice as often for vehicles that get driven during the winter, and caliper life is also reduced, or at least requires more frequent lubrication to prevent excessive rust. There is little you can do about it - especially when the DOT uses a liquid salt spray on the highway, you are essentially bathing the car in a salt bath.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

None of the cars were owned for more than 5 years as I recall. One was high mileage and older when I got it, so fair enough. The other was low mileage and 3-4 years old. Can’t remember the first one I had to do. It was a long time ago.

Aha so not twice on the same car. 3-4 years old is still very soon. Many short journeys perhaps?

 

[Apple fanboy]

Aha so not twice on the same car. 3-4 years old is still very soon. Many short journeys perhaps?

No all different cars. If it was all one car I’d have sold it after the second one!

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I’ve changed 2 exhausts but on earlier cars I’ve owned that were quite a few years old. I once had a 1997 Renault Laguna and changed the exhaust myself after the front pip dropped off on the motorway. I decided after wire brushing with WD40 the rusted brackets that I’d never ever attempt this again. The second time on a different car I let the garage do it.

 

[44267547]

I've spent most of my life in the midwest, and bad pavement is a fact of life. I've hit potholes in my Fiesta ST that bruised my soul. I'm actually surprised my winter wheel set is still round. Back in my college years I hit a pothole so big and nasty that I taco'd a steel wheel.

So, there’s one distinct advantage to living in Detroit. And that’s everything is almost a one-way street here. That means you can dance around potholes and not worry about on-coming traffic. And once you’ve been doing it long enough like I have, evasive maneuvering is one of the key skills that makes you a better driver.

Seriously though, our streets are ranked like third worst in the United States [That stat might be outdated.] And there’s a reason why auto shops are always booking out a month in advance, because they’re so backed up with alignments and tire changes.

 

[JT2002TJ]

True, but the downside is increased cost for the same performance. The bigger the brakes, the more they cost to maintain. And, speaking of the midwest, corrosion is a HUGE problem with brakes. I have to replace rotors twice as often for vehicles that get driven during the winter, and caliper life is also reduced, or at least requires more frequent lubrication to prevent excessive rust. There is little you can do about it - especially when the DOT uses a liquid salt spray on the highway, you are essentially bathing the car in a salt bath.

I live in NY, basically a suburb of NYC (8 miles from Queens). They use salt/brine here way more than I've ever seen because once it starts snowing it is difficult to get plows to all the tertiary roads (most of our roads fit that description because we are urban). All our roads have cars parked on the street.

I do my brakes myself on all my vehicles. I have learned that EVERY shop almost doubles the cost of the total job with excessive labor costs. The last time I did the brakes on my Ram it cost me $500 in parts from Advanced Auto (using the top level discs and pads). I ALWAYS change the rotors, I never machine them. In about 3 hours of my time, I can change all 4 corners and fully bleed the brakes. I do the rears every time, even though typically they can be done every other time you do the fronts.

I always start with brake bleeding, first I empty the reservoir, refill with fresh fluid, then repeat until it is fully clear, then bleed the lines, then I start with the brakes, this way I never push dirty fluid into the system while expanding the caliper pistons.

With these bigger brakes, I get 40k-50k miles per change vs back in the day I would have to do brakes every 20-30k miles, and that was pushing it. So bigger brakes with the same person driving (but different vehicles), with heavier modern vehicles I typically get 2x the brake life, with less than 2x the cost.

I am very impressed with the direction these brakes have gone, vs years ago. I had older MB what were all discs, but fit 14" wheels, those were some TERRIBLE brakes vs today's standards (but way ahead of their time).

 

[SactoGuy18]

I right now really wish Honda brought the Fit model back to the USA. I'd buy one in a heartbeat, too.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I live in NY, basically a suburb of NYC (8 miles from Queens). They use salt/brine here way more than I've ever seen because once it starts snowing it is difficult to get plows to all the tertiary roads (most of our roads fit that description because we are urban). All our roads have cars parked on the street.

I do my brakes myself on all my vehicles. I have learned that EVERY shop almost doubles the cost of the total job with excessive labor costs.

I used to do my own pads and rotors as well. It's pretty quick to do yourself, especially if you are familiar with the vehicle you're working on. I used to have a Toyota Hilux, and on that truck the brake rotor actually forms part of the housing for the front wheel bearings, meaning when changing rotors you either had to repack or replace the wheel bearings. It wasn't too bad but an extra step few people have to deal with.

Nowadays I have a trusted mechanic I've known for years who does excellent work at fair prices, and I usually have him do that kind of wrenching for me.

I right now really wish Honda brought the Fit model back to the USA. I'd buy one in a heartbeat, too.

When I bought my Fiesta I heavily cross-shopped the Fit. It really came down to the driving experience for me - the Fit is competent but the Fiesta is way more fun to drive. Most everything else was pretty equivalent.

On the plus side for the Fit, the packaging of the car is really impressive in terms of the totally flat floor and big cargo capacity for its size. The Fiesta is no slouch in terms of practicality but the interior of the Fit really maximizes cargo space.

I'd probably take the Fiesta over the Fit every time, but if you gave me a Fit I think I could be just fine with it. Good car.