The Car Thread ... !

[SactoGuy18]

It will be VERY interesting to see how Honda responds with the replacement for the Civic Type-R hatchback based on the new model.

Speaking of Honda, they just released some information on the new 2023 HR-V crossover for the North American market:

The new model uses the Honda Civic platform, and will likely use (for the North American market) the K20C2 158 bhp and L15B7 180 bhp engines. It may mean the next Honda CR-V may increase in size, too.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

There are other factors at play. Carbon fibre is only strong in certain directions based on the weave, and I don’t believe you can repair it against knocks that could be beaten out of steel. Aluminium I know cannot be beaten - I had an accident in a car with aluminium wings and just a minor dent meant a whole new panel was required.

This is why steel is going to remain the primary metal for auto construction for a long time. Steel is comparatively very, very easy to work with and can be repaired after even severe damage using relatively simple, cost-effective techniques that just can't be done with carbon and aluminum.

Carbon is essentially non-repairable. I don't mean that it can't be repaired (F1 teams are experts at it), but it is not economically feasible to do so with a production car apart from a few low-volume exotics - and even on many of those models most carbon components are considered non-repairable. If it breaks you have to replace it.

 

[Tagbert]

There are other factors at play. Carbon fibre is only strong in certain directions based on the weave, and I don’t believe you can repair it against knocks that could be beaten out of steel. Aluminium I know cannot be beaten - I had an accident in a car with aluminium wings and just a minor dent meant a whole new panel was required.

You know, it almost sounds like automobile manufacturers have looked into this question and made some decisions based on data and a large number of factors. Who could have foreseen that? 😉

 

[Lord Blackadder]

You know, it almost sounds like automobile manufacturers have looked into this question and made some decisions based on data and a large number of factors. Who could have foreseen that? 😉

Well, they’ve looked into it and decided that the best way to make a profit is to use a material (steel) that is ‘good enough’ and also relatively cheap. Volume auto manufacturers exist to make money first and foremost.

I actually value the corrosion resistance of carbon and aluminum more than the low weight. In temperate zones corrosion often kills cars before the mechanicals wear out.

 

[44267547]

Speaking of Honda, they just released some information on the new 2023 HR-V crossover for the North American market:

The new model uses the Honda Civic platform, and will likely use (for the North American market) the K20C2 158 bhp and L15B7 180 bhp engines. It may mean the next Honda CR-V may increase in size, too.

There really wasn’t a whole lot of information shared from Honda with the HR-V. I’m not sure where the Hr-V fits and it just seems overshadowed by the competition, with very little marketing over the years. I rarely ever see them on the road, It just seems like it’s more like a smaller crossover, where as the Subaru Crosstrek, Chevy Equinox or more competitively to the RAV-4 offer more a cargo/leg space, being more ‘known’ platforms.

Maybe this vehicle is more specific for other countries too, aside from the North American market.

The front looks….interesting.

 

[Zendokan]

Coming from a career in the car industry (12 years) before making my switch to my current IT career (15 years and counting) I can say that steel is still the best material to work with on base of weight, strength, durability and recyclebility.

Aluminium indeed lighter, but recycling is a hell because in reality it's not pure aluminium, but an alloy of aluminium, copper, magnesium, manganese, silicon, tin and zinc. Although 95% is aluminium in an aluminium alloy, it's the other 5% that can be an hassle when you try to recycle parts from different manufactures. 100% aluminium can be molded by hand, it feels like playdough, it's the alloys that give it its strenghts. So melting down aluminium parts from different manufactures gives you a metal where you don't know the exact mixture of the 5% and how it will affect the mechanical properties of the batch. This means that you can only recycle smaller amounts of used parts in combination with a large amount of newly created aluminium alloy consisting of one type mixture to counter the uncertanties.

Another problem is welding of aluminium alloy, there's only a 15° C difference between making it moldeble for welding and it flowing away like water (660,32°C/1220,58°F) making a bigger hole.

 

[danmart]

This sounds like a great car if you want something reasonable to play with: Toyota GR86.

One of my earlier ‘sporty’ cars was a Nissan 200SX - 200hp, RWD, LSD and no traction control. That was quite possibly the most fun car I have ever owned.

 

[SactoGuy18]

There really wasn’t a whole lot of information shared from Honda with the HR-V. I’m not sure where the Hr-V fits and it just seems overshadowed by the competition, with very little marketing over the years. I rarely ever see them on the road, It just seems like it’s more like a smaller crossover, where as the Subaru Crosstrek, Chevy Equinox or more competitively to the RAV-4 offer more a cargo/leg space, being more ‘known’ platforms.

Maybe this vehicle is more specific for other countries too, aside from the North American market.

The front looks….interesting.

View attachment 1986545

I personally think right now the new HR-V is designed specifically to compete against the Toyota Corolla Cross and (maybe) Subaru Forester. I would consider the Nissan Rogue Sport (Qashqai in other parts of the world) a competitor but the Rogue Sport is limited by that 140 bhp engine. I also think there is a chance the 181 bhp e:HEV hybrid drivetrain may be offered on the new HR-V in calendar year 2023.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I personally think right now the new HR-V is designed specifically to compete against the Toyota Corolla Cross and (maybe) Subaru Forester. I would consider the Nissan Rogue Sport (Qashqai in other parts of the world) a competitor but the Rogue Sport is limited by that 140 bhp engine. I also think there is a chance the 181 bhp e:HEV hybrid drivetrain may be offered on the new HR-V in calendar year 2023.

The Nissan Qashqai is a very popular car in the UK even though it has a reputation of being unreliable with its Renault engine.

The previous model Honda HR-V was very unpopular by comparison and like the Honda Jazz it tended to appeal to the older (elderly) person. It was a strange car in that it was a similar size to the popular Civic, but it was expensive when compared to the CR-V. I don’t know any official figures but it was one of the rarer Honda’s on our roads but like many other examples sold elsewhere in the world, there is a lot of competition in the segment it was in.

 

[SactoGuy18]

Interestingly, the current-generation HR-V has actually sold quite well in the USA due to the discontinuance of the Fit. The R18 engine is a bit ancient, though, even with the Earth Dreams Technology upgrades done in 2014. I expect the next HR-V to sell very well, especially if they offer the 181 bhp e:HEV hybrid drivetrain.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Interestingly, the current-generation HR-V has actually sold quite well in the USA due to the discontinuance of the Fit. The R18 engine is a bit ancient, though, even with the Earth Dreams Technology upgrades done in 2014. I expect the next HR-V to sell very well, especially if they offer the 181 bhp e:HEV hybrid drivetrain.

Automakers in the US are pushing the idea that tiny SUVs should replace compact cars, which IMO is neither a good idea nor a sustainable one.

Tiny SUVs make sense only in a world where everyone simply MUST have an SUV of some kind. They offer a marginal-at-best usable interior space advantage over a hatchback, have inferior driving dynamics due to increased weight, wheel travel, and higher center of gravity, slightly worse fuel economy, and in truth the 'off-road' or bad weather performance of such crossovers is just not that much better than a FWD hatch with good tires. An AWD hatch would probably be close to equal in that regard.

I guess a counterargument would be that these tiny SUVs aren't even SUVs at all - it's just that most people shopping a compact car now demand a tall, AWD vehicle with a label that provides an illusion of increased capability and security - at extra cost.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Automakers in the US are pushing the idea that tiny SUVs should replace compact cars, which IMO is neither a good idea nor a sustainable one.

Tiny SUVs make sense only in a world where everyone simply MUST have an SUV of some kind. They offer a marginal-at-best usable interior space advantage over a hatchback, have inferior driving dynamics due to increased weight, wheel travel, and higher center of gravity, slightly worse fuel economy, and in truth the 'off-road' or bad weather performance of such crossovers is just not that much better than a FWD hatch with good tires. An AWD hatch would probably be close to equal in that regard.

I guess a counterargument would be that these tiny SUVs aren't even SUVs at all - it's just that most people shopping a compact car now demand a tall, AWD vehicle with a label that provides an illusion of increased capability and security - at extra cost.

Never been a fan of SUV’s. As you say they don’t handle well. But then for people just going to the shops and back they make perfect sense! Of course all that extra weight just increases the fuel burned.

 

[44267547]

I personally think right now the new HR-V is designed specifically to compete against the Toyota Corolla Cross and (maybe) Subaru Forester. I would consider the Nissan Rogue Sport (Qashqai in other parts of the world) a competitor but the Rogue Sport is limited by that 140 bhp engine. I also think there is a chance the 181 bhp e:HEV hybrid drivetrain may be offered on the new HR-V in calendar year 2023.

You’re totally right in your first sentence, I forgot about the Corolla Cross, which was kind of silently released just over a year ago I believe, and I think the highest trim model that I watched a review on, tops out at about $30,000. Interestingly enough, I have never found a Corolla Cross on the roadway either.

I think when you look at the HRV and the Cross, they’re just overshadowed by the bigger competition like I mentioned before with the Equinox or Subaru Crosstreck, just because they offer more cargo space.

But then again, I feel marketing sells vehicle, (just like everything else) and you just don’t see much marketing for the HRV or the Cross, and I totally forgot about the Cross until you mentioned it again. That’s kind of an example of why I feel these vehicles are overshadowed by the competition that have marketing and leverage based off what we as consumers see on the roadway.

 

[Clix Pix]

When I bought my Honda Civic Sport Hatchback, someone asked me why I didn't buy some sort of SUV instead. The answer was simple: I didn't want one, didn't need a large vehicle to transport a family and loads of junk -- er, cargo -- and I wasn't interested in the small SUVs which were available then. I'm more than pleased with my Civic hatchback, which fits my needs just fine.

 

[Apple fanboy]

After reading a few reviews I decided to upgrade the speakers on my BMW i3 today. So fortunately with the delays they were able to accommodate without any issue. Glad I did as the standard set up only has speakers in the front. I like my surround sound for blasting out Queen!

 

[SactoGuy18]

I think the driving dynamics of modern "crossovers" are way better than in the past. Anyone who's driven the early generations of the Honda CR-V and Toyota RAV4 note their handling was a bit on the "tipsy" side. I expect the new HR-V to get at least decent handling, thanks to the 11th generation Civic underpinnings, especially the multilink rear suspension. Besides, the new HR-V's type of vehicle has pretty much replaced the station wagon anyway here in the USA.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I think the driving dynamics of modern "crossovers" are way better than in the past. Anyone who's driven the early generations of the Honda CR-V and Toyota RAV4 note their handling was a bit on the "tipsy" side. I expect the new HR-V to get at least decent handling, thanks to the 11th generation Civic underpinnings, especially the multilink rear suspension. Besides, the new HR-V's type of vehicle has pretty much replaced the station wagon anyway here in the USA.

I think the US market is quite different to Europe. Where as (sadly) SUV’s are growing in popularity (after all they are the perfect choice for the 2 mile suburbia school run), trucks for example just don’t really exist here. Hatchbacks like Golf’s, Astra’s and Focus’s are pretty common.

 

[44267547]

I think the driving dynamics of modern "crossovers" are way better than in the past. Anyone who's driven the early generations of the Honda CR-V and Toyota RAV4 note their handling was a bit on the "tipsy" side. I expect the new HR-V to get at least decent handling, thanks to the 11th generation Civic underpinnings, especially the multilink rear suspension. Besides, the new HR-V's type of vehicle has pretty much replaced the station wagon anyway here in the USA.

It just came to me:

You mentioned the Corolla Crossover being the other foreign competitor, the competitor to the domestic market would be before the Ford Escape. And ironically, the Corolla Crossover looks almost identical to each other in terms of the design from the front with the Escape.

Ok, I just had to say that before I forgot.

 

[Tagbert]

It just came to me:

You mentioned the Corolla Crossover being the other foreign competitor, the competitor to the domestic market would be before the Ford Escape. And ironically, the Corolla Crossover looks almost identical to each other in terms of the design from the front with the Escape.

Ok, I just had to say that before I forgot.

You have to squint your eyes pretty hard to see those two as identical

 

[44267547]

You have to squint your eyes pretty hard to see those two as identical
View attachment 1987081

Yes, I think I squinted too hard. The HRV is the comparable variant to the above Ford Escape, not the Crossover. Good call.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Never been a fan of SUV’s. As you say they don’t handle well. But then for people just going to the shops and back they make perfect sense! Of course all that extra weight just increases the fuel burned.

It’s about driving position and ease of getting in and out for some.

 

[Apple fanboy]

It’s about driving position and ease of getting in and out for some.

Possibly. I think lots of people think they are safer.

 

[JT2002TJ]

Possibly. I think lots of people think they are safer.

Well, it really depends. I have a Ram Crew Cab Ram pickup truck, which means I have a 5 feet 7 inch crumple zone behind the cab of the truck. With a huge hood, I have a very large crumple zone in front of me.

My daily driver is an e46 3 series with the sport suspension. I'm convinced that if I get into an accident, with the trucks/SUVs around me they will end up going over me, instead of staying level and using both crumple zones.

I'd say the average compact SUV is safer in the typical accident vs. a little Smart Car. At least here in the US, where on most roads we are going 50 mph or greater. I would assume during an accident, bumper height being higher outweighs the rollover risk.

 

[ericgtr12]

It’s about driving position and ease of getting in and out for some.

Right, as I get older it's getting harder and harder to crawl in and out of my car as it's so low to the ground. It's a nice change anytime I ride with someone in a SUV or truck to step down out of it.

 

[JT2002TJ]

Right, as I get older it's getting harder and harder to crawl in and out of my car as it's so low to the ground. It's a nice change anytime I ride with someone in a SUV or truck to step down out of it.

I'm 6'2", which isn't all that tall, but when I drive my e46 I have to recline the seat back to not have my head on the headliner. My seat back is behind the B-pillar and I also have sport seats, so the seat base has high bolsters on the sides.

I practice the Jeremy Clarkson car exit, basically uncomfortably roll out of the car. It's fun to do in the rain wearing a suit.

It is a joy to get in and out of my Ram.