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Abazigal

Contributor
Jul 18, 2011
20,383
23,868
Singapore
Hi,
If I compare the pen that came with my company phone and the Apple Pencil you seriously have to agree that Apple has lost it's innovative side. The S-Pen as they call it never needs charging, has a very nice place to store it inside the device, notifies the phone if I walk away and leave it laying on the desk, has far more functions built into it and didn't cost an extra $99.
And as a teacher using a stylus to annotate on PDFs daily, I have come to realize that there are just some things not worth saving on.

Yes, the Apple Pencil costs more and has drawbacks like needing to charge every few days, but guess what? It offers me such an excellent writing experience that all these shortcomings become secondary in nature. The Apple Pencil will more than pay for itself in the form of greater productivity and fewer problems overall.

Conversely, if the writing experience of a competing stylus product sucks, I am not going to use it, even if it comes with all the benefits of the S-pen as stated above.

Apple simply chose a different set of compromises for the Apple Pencil compared to other companies, and I happen to appreciate the particular list of pros and cons that Apple has chosen to emphasize.
 
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Phoenixx

Suspended
Jul 3, 2015
377
556
Hi all,
Happy with our Macs, can't live without them. Disgusted with our iOS devices and considering returning my 10 day old 9.7" Pro, selling our 6S Pluses and booting up my company issue Galaxy Note 5 until I either see Tim Cook booted by the shareholders or hopefully iPhone 8 and iOS 11 addresses the multitude of current issues...

Anyone else feeling a little slighted by Apple lately with the buggy updates, poor quality control, lack of innovation, overpriced outdated tech, and same old launch cycles every year...4/4S 5/5S 6/6S, better camera, faster processor, more complex iOS and so on..... Its getting OLD Apple!!
I agree with you totally, my own feeling is not one of being slightly irritated by Apple these days, but that of outright disgust. Not only has OS X become unreliable to the point of needing DAILY attention, and being ridiculously outdated, but iOS has largely gone the same way. Add to that the disgusting quality of the hardware, the ridiculous prices, the dumbing down of even basic functionality, and the atrocious monstrosity that Apple have the cheek to call "customer service." As far as I am concerned, Apple is no longer a company I want anything to do with.

At this stage they seem more interested in spending billions of dollars on buildings than in product development.
 

thingstoponder

macrumors 6502a
Oct 23, 2014
916
1,100
Hi all,
Happy with our Macs, can't live without them. Disgusted with our iOS devices and considering returning my 10 day old 9.7" Pro, selling our 6S Pluses and booting up my company issue Galaxy Note 5 until I either see Tim Cook booted by the shareholders or hopefully iPhone 8 and iOS 11 addresses the multitude of current issues...

Anyone else feeling a little slighted by Apple lately with the buggy updates, poor quality control, lack of innovation, overpriced outdated tech, and same old launch cycles every year...4/4S 5/5S 6/6S, better camera, faster processor, more complex iOS and so on..... Its getting OLD Apple!!

Yes, better camera and processor every year is so bad. :rolleyes:

The PC hasn't changed much since the 80s other than getting faster. Why do you expect smartphone to radically change so fast? It's still a new product.
 

bensisko

macrumors 65816
Jul 24, 2002
1,471
1,307
The Village
Despite the fact that Apple's legions of cult like followers are still on duty, defending poor Apple, the ranks of us that know better are growing rapidly.

Apple has more work ahead if they hope to return to the days goneby where the Apple logo stood for excellence.

The arrogance meters are approaching dangerous levels captain!

It could just be that *gasp!* there might be people that are satisfied with the product and enjoy it!
 
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Isamilis

macrumors 68020
Apr 3, 2012
2,188
1,073
I am disappointed on their direction on candy style UI, especially on OSX where it burn my eyes when staring too long on screen. The other major fault is their push to release immature software version & low quality build.
 
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Abazigal

Contributor
Jul 18, 2011
20,383
23,868
Singapore
greater productivity than...?
fewer problems than... ?
Greater productivity compared to annotating on a PDF in an iPad app such as Notability or PDF expert with my fingers. Which I did a decent job of, but the speed and quality just cannot be compared to a dedicated stylus, especially one of the Apple Pencil's caliber. It's also faster, since I don't have to keep zooming in and out of PDFs just to ensure decent handwriting.

Fewer problems than the 3rd party styluses I have experimented with so far. They never captured handwriting all that well or smoothly, and none have felt as satisfying to hold and use than the Apple Pencil. The Apple Pencil is probably the first stylus where I didn't feel like I was "fighting the hardware". It works so well that it's the first stylus that has made me actually want to write more and experiment more with drawing / inking apps on my iPad to see how far I can push this "new found power".

Currently playing around with the app "Paper" to evaluate its viability as a presentation tool. This is something I normally would not have bothered with prior to owning the Apple Pencil because the user experience simply sucked.
 

grahamperrin

macrumors 601
Jun 8, 2007
4,942
648
… a friend who wanted to move away from Windows, and couldn't afford a Mac, so I introduced him to Linux. He had nothing but problems, the reason for most of his problems was that he kept trying to implement his old Windows habits into a system that was drastically different. A week later he was back in Windows. It is difficult for some people to unlearn what they have learned.

On YouTube, the OSFirstTimer series includes some thought-provoking episodes. Some introductions to alternatives to Windows are happy.

… they are still "good", just not as great as they were a few years ago.

Good products, I accept. Mixtures of good and bad can be acceptable, if there's hope that the bad can be made good.

Just a little of OS X Yosemite was bad – without that hope. Bad enough for me to abandon OS X – and there ended all plans to spend my own money on Apple products.

… When public companies make a lot of profit, the shareholders and investors come first. …

Yeah. I felt like I got a second- or third-class experience. After years of first-class, the sudden drop was alienating. Over a few weeks, nearly all of my loyalty disappeared. Brand loyalty is for suckers
 

navaira

macrumors 68040
May 28, 2015
3,934
5,161
Amsterdam, Netherlands
The best part is the Apple Warranty, if something is wrong with the item, they swap me out and on my way again. Good luck getting that kind of service with an Android product.
Tardy to the party, but when my Samsung Galaxy S3 bricked itself I had it replaced for free. (Before you say "ha! an iOS device would never brick itself!" remember the 9.3.2 update.)
 
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Kal-037

macrumors 68020
Greater productivity compared to annotating on a PDF in an iPad app such as Notability or PDF expert with my fingers. Which I did a decent job of, but the speed and quality just cannot be compared to a dedicated stylus, especially one of the Apple Pencil's caliber. It's also faster, since I don't have to keep zooming in and out of PDFs just to ensure decent handwriting.

Fewer problems than the 3rd party styluses I have experimented with so far. They never captured handwriting all that well or smoothly, and none have felt as satisfying to hold and use than the Apple Pencil. The Apple Pencil is probably the first stylus where I didn't feel like I was "fighting the hardware". It works so well that it's the first stylus that has made me actually want to write more and experiment more with drawing / inking apps on my iPad to see how far I can push this "new found power".

Currently playing around with the app "Paper" to evaluate its viability as a presentation tool. This is something I normally would not have bothered with prior to owning the Apple Pencil because the user experience simply sucked.


110% agree with you.


****To the main topic...
I was really close to buying a cintiq, then the Pro was announced and when I got the pencil I was sold, no latency, no lag, great size and weight, with absolute accuracy. I haven't picked up a graphite pencil since December. (And I only did that for my last art class.) Since then all my illustrations, sketches, and everything else has been drawn on my iPad with the Apple Pencil. This is IMO by far the greatest Apple Product besides iMac 5K. The Pencil is being used to help me get through school and will do so when I get into my animation program in 2017. I think the complaints of the no magnets or not being able to stick to the iPad are silly, OP have you ever carried around an art case full of 300+ pencils, pens, markers, paint brushes, and paper? I spent over $250 just to finish 1/4 of a drawing before I ran out of money. the Apple Pencil is INDEED innovative and brilliant. All those supplies get heavy and are bloody expensive, (good Oil Pencils for instance are around 200 dollars for a set of 150.) Add in paint brushes, art pens, paint and the fact that all that has to be re-purchased several times during a full school year, and you end up with over $1000+ dollars for art supplies, (or 600 just for oil pencils.) The Apple Pencil takes care of the role of graphite pencil, oil pencil, pen, marker, paint brush and most everything else I use to draw.
All I have to do with the iPad is slip it into a bag, then put the 1 pencil in the slot designated for a traditional pencil and boom I have a barely 2 pound organized bag to carry around school instead of a 5+ pound messy bag. The money is a silly complaint IMO too, as you either buy the iPad knowing you'll use it to its full extent or you simply pass and buy another product. Again as I stated above, art supplies are very, very expensive but the Apple Pencil allows me to not have to rely on other drawing tools as much, or constantly re purchase them, (saving me money and stress, as school debt is ridiculous enough, one purchase for an iPad and no more several hundred dollar art supply runs.)
I think Apple is doing fine, they have stumbled a bit in QC on some of their products, for me the darn home buttons on the iPhone are a joke, OS has bugs here and there, But Apple sends out fixes that work within a week or 2 at most, and when they do any problem I may have had is gone.
Sure it would be nice not to have an issue in the first place, but honestly... Compared to Windows' constant ridiculous and downright useless updates... Apple is still 1000x better.

*not an Apple fanboy, but merely a person who has found the right tools (finally) for the jobs that need to get done.





Kal.
 

mrex

macrumors 68040
Jul 16, 2014
3,458
1,527
europe
Greater productivity compared to annotating on a PDF in an iPad app such as Notability or PDF expert with my fingers. Which I did a decent job of, but the speed and quality just cannot be compared to a dedicated stylus, especially one of the Apple Pencil's caliber. It's also faster, since I don't have to keep zooming in and out of PDFs just to ensure decent handwriting.

Fewer problems than the 3rd party styluses I have experimented with so far. They never captured handwriting all that well or smoothly, and none have felt as satisfying to hold and use than the Apple Pencil. The Apple Pencil is probably the first stylus where I didn't feel like I was "fighting the hardware". It works so well that it's the first stylus that has made me actually want to write more and experiment more with drawing / inking apps on my iPad to see how far I can push this "new found power".

Currently playing around with the app "Paper" to evaluate its viability as a presentation tool. This is something I normally would not have bothered with prior to owning the Apple Pencil because the user experience simply sucked.

ah, ok - i thought you were talking about spen vs apple pencil.

Paper app with P53 works great. P53 is the only 3rd party stylus i like to use with ipad air2 (Paper, Procreate, Noteshelf...) Handwriting with the P53 and Noteshelf app is easy.
 

BenTrovato

macrumors 68040
Jun 29, 2012
3,048
2,222
Canada
Yeah. I felt like I got a second- or third-class experience. After years of first-class, the sudden drop was alienating. Over a few weeks, nearly all of my loyalty disappeared. Brand loyalty is for suckers

You nailed it. In this day in age where profits are the bottom line, brand loyalty is indeed for suckers. Staying loyal to a local store who treats you well is one thing, but staying loyal to a large publicly traded company who doesn't care about you doesn't make much sense.
 
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Abazigal

Contributor
Jul 18, 2011
20,383
23,868
Singapore
You nailed it. In this day in age where profits are the bottom line, brand loyalty is indeed for suckers. Staying loyal to a local store who treats you well is one thing, but staying loyal to a large publicly traded company who doesn't care about you doesn't make much sense.
Simple. You like the future prophecised by Apple and you want to help make that future a reality. You want Apple to crush the competition and ripe over all.

People buy different products for varying reasons and they may not always seem rational or make sense to you but that doesn't mean those reasons are any less valid.
 

maxsix

Suspended
Jun 28, 2015
3,100
3,731
Western Hemisphere
I always loved using my 17" MBP with an antiglare screen. Since Apple has refused to build another one I bought a Windows machine with better specs and never looked back...
As one who uses his Mac Laptop for work, with resource demanding proprietary desktop software, my 17" MBP'S of the past were my absolute favorite computer. Being a laptop I had the portability, with its gorgeous 17" display I had the working room I needed.

The Problems?

Very reliable
Terrific keyboard
Excellent battery life
Smooth effective trackpad
Sharp clear anti-glare display
Small and compact for a 17" laptop

Thankfully Apple responded to these dreadful shortcomings by discontinuing this model.

Really Apple? ... :eek:

Their true expertise is selling overrated, yet fashionable phones, pads and watches.
 

aristobrat

macrumors G5
Oct 14, 2005
12,292
1,403
Most, but not all, of the company issued phones I see are iPhones. This is probably due to better compatibility with mobile device management software, Airwatch in particular.
And how OS updates are handled, IMO.

Apple has more work ahead if they hope to return to the days goneby where the Apple logo stood for excellence.
I can't remember any period of time during the last 11 years that I've been on the forums here where there hasn't been an undercurrent of folks lamenting about some magical time in the past where Apple was much better.

Point being that "back to the days where things were better" really just seems to be an ever present part of the relationship cycle that some Apple owners have with the company.

What's weird to me is when long-standing forum members fall into this phase and act like its something new.

Thankfully Apple responded to these dreadful shortcomings by discontinuing this model.

Really Apple? ... :eek:.
I know this is anecdotal so YMMV and all that jazz, but at the Apple Store I worked at for a few years, the 17" MBP sold about as often as a Mac Pro. It was an extremely niche item. The pros that used them swore by them, but if the store sold more than one a month, it was a major deal.
 
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maxsix

Suspended
Jun 28, 2015
3,100
3,731
Western Hemisphere
The good news is that it would be incredibly easy for Apple to fix the many problems they've created.

Self inflicted, most likely out of greed, the burning desire to stuff their coffers with the last penny from every buyer that opens their wallet, Apple has a choice. Do they do the right thing? Do they apply themselves and improve the existing software, operating systems and watch as the compliments come in?

Do they have the courage to fix what's wrong?

Do they honestly want to improve...

Or do they resist change and cling to their super narcissistic position as The Supreme Authority.
 

BenTrovato

macrumors 68040
Jun 29, 2012
3,048
2,222
Canada
Simple. You like the future prophecised by Apple and you want to help make that future a reality. You want Apple to crush the competition and ripe over all.

People buy different products for varying reasons and they may not always seem rational or make sense to you but that doesn't mean those reasons are any less valid.

No idea where you came up with that one. We're talking about brand loyalty. Companies spend billions generating it. I'm saying as a paying customer it doesn't make any sense when dealing with publicly traded companies. If you disagree about that, feel free to say why.
 

Flow39

macrumors 68000
Sep 7, 2014
1,784
1,753
The Apple Store
Here's my opinion. Apples still makes amazing products, but they have one big problem. Their products aren't bad or getting worse, but the competition is getting better and catching up/surpassing Apple in some areas. I usually recommend iPhones to people when they ask unless they are someone that has some tech know-how and is okay troubleshooting occasionally.

The iPhone still is a great phone and I would have no problem going back to using one, but the competition is getting much better and making it hard to stick with Apple. I'm using a Nexus right now and I am enjoying the user experience more than my iPhone. It has it beat in almost all areas (for my usage at least).

I am worried about the direction Apple is going however. They are iterating endlessly and never truly innovating. iOS has gotten stale and lacks a lot of features that Android has gotten. The iPhone is expensive, starts at only 16 GB of storage, and isn't the obvious winner in the smartphone market anymore. The Macs have underpowered hardware and cost a lot of money as well (I do enjoy my MBP but it really should have better hardware for the $$$ I paid.) The iPad line is getting fragmented with all the Mini, Pro, and Air designations with different features even across similar lines! Also, with the iPhone 7 rumored to look the same and also be split into regular, Plus, and Pro models, I am very concerned with the direction Apple is heading right now. They really need to slim down their product lines. They're getting too bloated.
 
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Tech198

Cancelled
Mar 21, 2011
15,915
2,151
Vote with your dollars. If people don't like what Apple is doing they'll buy from someone else. I, for one, am generally happy with my iOS devices, but prefer a Windows PC over a Mac.

So I wouldn't say that I feel slighted by Apple any more than any other company. If they make something I want I'll buy it. If they don't it's no sweat off my back, they have competitors offering other options.

Actually i don't think u have a choice if u want it to be ulta thin so u can't vote with your $$

Even the Dell XPS is the same price tag, as the Retina Macbook Pro

I could choose either, since i don't trust Apple's security or anyone's but myself, so Windows, Mac..... I'm totally safe ether way.. :)

I do feel the laptop line is loosing its edge over the years with Apple... no longer can u say "There still the thinnest laptop", because they aren't if u look what's available.
 
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hiddenmarkov

macrumors 6502a
Mar 12, 2014
685
492
Japan
Here's my opinion. Apples still makes amazing products, but they have one big problem. Their products aren't bad or getting worse, but the competition is getting better and catching up/surpassing Apple in some areas. I usually recommend iPhones to people when they ask unless they are someone that has some tech know-how and is okay troubleshooting occasionally.

The iPhone still is a great phone and I would have no problem going back to using one, but the competition is getting much better and making it hard to stick with Apple. I'm using a Nexus right now and I am enjoying the user experience more than my iPhone. It has it beat in almost all areas (for my usage at least).

I am worried about the direction Apple is going however. They are iterating endlessly and never truly innovating. iOS has gotten stale and lacks a lot of features that Android has gotten. The iPhone is expensive, starts at only 16 GB of storage, and isn't the obvious winner in the smartphone market anymore. The Macs have underpowered hardware and cost a lot of money as well (I do enjoy my MBP but it really should have better hardware for the $$$ I paid.) The iPad line is getting fragmented with all the Mini, Pro, and Air designations with different features even across similar lines! Also, with the iPhone 7 rumored to look the same and also be split into regular, Plus, and Pro models, I am very concerned with the direction Apple is heading right now. They really need to slim down their product lines. They're getting too bloated.


Basically the issue. Windows improved as an OS. Apple has not been reaching hard as an application developer pushing for application devs to work it pure apple style. Sure as hell don't lead by example. fix the fuster clucks of the components of iworks....or just say go M$ on the new IPP release? Former too hard, lets push the latter. When your competitor cares more about development on your platforms than you do....its not a good sign.

They don't even have funny clip of Steve Ballmer motivating devs at a conference even (the developers, developers..... speech, viral meme at one time and still hard to forget even today). Goofy, yes. But old boy seemed to at least care about getting devs gung ho about M$ development.




So that lets be honest here, the mac os experience is breaking down to running windows ports at this point. OS difference the gap is closing in that case. Like I said in the past, take your application, go fullscreen, and you don't even see the OS anymore. Adobe is SSDD on mac or windows. Many apps are.

hardware gap is closed imo. All dell and others lack is the aluminum body for laptops and aren't making flower pots for towers. Apple went intel. Yes hand picked components for some potential stability over a pc but....still just a PC. Apple zealots need not go on about this. Linux and unix servers and workstations run on PC hardware....this is not an insult or a ding. It just is. PC a vague term that grew in time to differentiate from other technologies.

You all want to be truly different...oracle says hi. For quite a few dollars you can say,legitimately, you are not on PC architecture. You would be on Sparc architecture. And vendors who support sparc actually write code and drivers specifically for it.


tablets/mobile....will rez the dead horse and say iOS needs to open up. Its doing all some people need to do. happy for them if so. But apple has sold to them. Now its time to reach the holdouts like me. Where I need a more "real" OS. Don't do this markets won't expand much. They will just get the people who buy new stuff because that's what they do.

Next year or year after...this could be surface. Its clunky, its ugly, its slow...all qualitative hits against it I have read. I like quantitative...does surface run this app I need that iOS cannot support. Yes or no. Applications I have in mind cannot be on iOS for technical reasons. Its too restrictive. They will run on surface.

If that doesn't change...I can deal with "ugly" if it gets me what I need. Its an OS with a gui. All lack and pale in comparison to the greatest gui OS ever made. Windows and apple fanboys make me laugh a little, Amiga OS says you are both wrong lol.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,740
Here's my opinion. Apples still makes amazing products, but they have one big problem. Their products aren't bad or getting worse, but the competition is getting better and catching up/surpassing Apple in some areas.
I have to say its a bit of both, in that the competition is catching up, and Apple products are seemingly getting worse.

Consider the amount of dGPU failures in the MBP, 2008, 2010, 2011. The display coating wearing off on 2012 and newer models. I've had OS X crash on me twice today, and a couple of time yesterday. It seems the latest update has introduced some instabilities.

The latest iOS update has been pulled because its bricking iPAds, this isn't the first time in recent history that Apple had to pull an iOS update.

I love my iMac, its a great machine, my iPhone SE is also awesome, but there are trends at Apple that are hard to ignore.
 

loby

macrumors 68000
Jul 1, 2010
1,880
1,507
Hi all,
Happy with our Macs, can't live without them. Disgusted with our iOS devices and considering returning my 10 day old 9.7" Pro, selling our 6S Pluses and booting up my company issue Galaxy Note 5 until I either see Tim Cook booted by the shareholders or hopefully iPhone 8 and iOS 11 addresses the multitude of current issues...

Anyone else feeling a little slighted by Apple lately with the buggy updates, poor quality control, lack of innovation, overpriced outdated tech, and same old launch cycles every year...4/4S 5/5S 6/6S, better camera, faster processor, more complex iOS and so on..... Its getting OLD Apple!!

Yes, but there is not really a way to get Apple to listen or a reason why they needs to listen.

Stop buying Apple products...yeah right...what options do we have?...Microsoft...not.

Companies change when they start to lose profits or when they are not making money. Apple is not losing money and they are making profits.

No need to change because the 'techies' want better. People are still buying, so we have no voice...
[doublepost=1464004982][/doublepost]
Despite the fact that Apple's legions of cult like followers are still on duty, defending poor Apple, the ranks of us that know better are growing rapidly.

Apple has more work ahead if they hope to return to the days goneby where the Apple logo stood for excellence.

Agree..how can anyone say now that Apple's quality is excellent unless you are paid to say it or just a fan boy or girl?

Being real...Apple's products are still the go to product if you are satisfied with the Eco system, but though we still 'like' the products we need good tech and the latest innovation in it. Not subpar 'good' that was three years ago tech packaged in a nice look, giving you the maximized return and profits. It is ok to make the profits.... just give us a machine that we can feel 'satisfied' with with the high price tag.

Windows systems that are better tech can be purchased at sometimes more than half of the price of a Mac, but if we are locked in the OS X Eco system, what choice do we have? Windows...? no..Linus? Not yet, not there yet. So what. An we do?
 
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