For you, for teenagers and developers is the new golden egg, this is just the beginning . There were a lot of people like you that said the same about white airpods and apple watch and not alone they are fortune 500 business
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The end of Tim Cook's reign is near.
- Thread starter Pearple
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No, im more pleased with the M3 macs than i was a decade with Intel macs. Also the iphone finally have a great battery life. Apple watch and airpods owners are very happy...so what customers ? Learn to read the official sales and profit margins.
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I am, so dont speak for everybody, speak just for yourself...the macs in that period were a joke, also the first iphones and ipads? Was a nice era only because Apple release new fresh things, but kids things unfortunately, products where i include vision pro, that where unpolished
I have to agree totally. There were some disgracefully bad Macs between 2000-2010, which included a model with a 70% failure rate, others where one (of only two) RAM slots failed and were unusable, one with notorious failed GPUs, another which came with a superior finish which flaked off... before the hinges came off too, others which overheated... and those are just examples I still own!
By comparison, the M1 MBA and iMac I own, and my new M3 MBA are all quite excellent. Not only that, but the 15-inch MBA is a thing of genuine beauty and excellence in engineering. Today's AS system performance levels would have had us all drooling 10 years and more ago, let alone in the first decade of the century.
I'm a frequent user of older Macs, I still have my original 2007 iPhone, and I much preferred Apple's sense of software engineering from back then, but they were far more simple times too.
I certainly don't want that Apple back. I would like this one to pay more attention to detail, and shed some of the arrogance.
It’s not going to get to even 3 years as the nobody wants a headset at this price when it’s not needed
Do you call the Mac mini a failure? Because it only sells 250K units worldwide.
Where as Apple Vision Pro allegedly has 200K in pre-order sales.
Then recently Ming-Chi Kuo reported Apple dropped expectations of Vision Pro sales from 700-800K down to 400-450K while still only being available in the U.S. But thats nearing double what Mac mini does on a global stage.
How do you define a failure then? Because if we're going by sales, then Mac mini and Mac Studio are both failures. But I wouldn't define success by comparative sales numbers.
It seems obvious to me Apple is trying to seed developer and industry ecosystem with this release—not sell devices to families as if they were iPhones and iPads—otherwise the price wouldn't be as high as $3500. Apple is clearly on a ten+ year roadmap. The sooner they put out a "test product" for industry markets to show Apple what it values, the sooner Apple can improve each iteration and solve the market's chicken-and-egg problem.
Everyone should check out Crossing the Chasm by Geoffrey A. Moore. Releasing an introductory product in a new product category, one should not expect huge mass markets sales. Instead—you're supposed to aim for early adopters who are eager for the product, will give direct feedback, will buy the company time and profit recuperation to release a second version, and a third version, and a fourth version—each closer and closer to what the mass markets will finally demand once a tipping point is reached.
In other words, the Apple Vision Pro isn't for you, it's for early adopters. The version for you hasn't been designed and sold yet. Wait 5 years.
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Nobody? At All?
It does make me wonder where they're actually going then. That said, consumer market wise, it's probably true enough that demand isn't in the clouds, but you can't really extrapolate that there is no market just because you're not in the target market.
Me either, but I've seen Apple do this before to push into an area, and they've been quite good at it. The original iPhone for example: no carrier subsidy so you paid full price, which was a lot for a cellphone when you often got them 'free', and when Jobs announced it, a whole raft of experts told us it was going to be a total failure. Even the Apple Watch. Who would pay that much when you can get a Timex for $19 or a FitBit for no more than $99.
Absolutely this.
While I appreciate that many observers here assume that the only product roadmaps that exist are the ones that involve fast selling a high pile of boxes, that isn't how every product market works. Certainly there are other VR headsets, but none that have taken the world by storm and created much of a demand. In Apple's case, they have been working on this for a fair time as we know, and they are reasonably sure that VR/AR is a coming big thing, but it needs more than just hardware.
Seeding the product to enthusiasts who are going to expect more, and to developers and content providers who can see a nascent market is exactly what I'd expect them to do. I saw somewhere a review that described the Vision Pro as a 'game changer', which means nothing to me since I'm not all that interested in this particular game, but it suggests a whole bunch of Samsungs will be chasing to catch up soon enough.
This is the same idea as 3d glasses
Nobody wants to really wear a thing on there head when it’s not actually needed.
The Mac mini is different Apple need to make it because it’s part of the line up
Where as the AVP is a new product line that they are banking on does well.
You're clearly not reading what's being said. They aren't 'banking on it doing well', they're creating the market for it - right now, that's the only real priority.
Their objective would really be to render this down to something not much more than a pair of reading glasses, but you have to start somewhere. This isn't a good 'somewhere' for me at all, but you can't realistically start with a mature product. Nor can you sell to customers who may well want it, but can't get software (yet). So you sell to the people who can build your software base.
That's a lot of the same idea that began the microcomputer industry in the first place, back in the late 70s and early 80s.
It's nothing like 3D glasses.
Could people just buy 3D glasses at the store, drive home, and watch 3D movies?
Could they?
The horror! Apple is doomed, doomed I tell you! Won’t somebody please think of the trillion dollar corporations!!
The current Mac mini and the Mac Studio are disastrous failures, because CPU, RAM and Storage are soldered, which gives zero advantages to the user in case of a desktop machine.
This is very sad, because the Mac mini once was a fantastic device. It could return to glory, if built with exchangeable components.
But Cook would not do that. Because Cook loves the stock holders and Cook hates the common consumer.
He will always be remembered as the bean counter, who skyrocketed Apple's company value but destroyed, what so many people loved about Apple.
He was the perfect COO but he is a disappointing CEO.
Mac mini and Mac Studio sell 1%... each.
You think they would 10x sales if you could add RAM and storage?
No. No, they sell 1% because 98% of Mac users want a laptop, not a desktop that is stuck at a desk. I'm being generous to you by saying maybe there would be a 50% bump in sales, which would mean the Mac mini and Mac Studio would sell 1.5% each...
Hardly a success if sales is how you define things.
That's about as logical as saying a cat is a disastrous failure because it's not a dog. Well done, you alone spotted the problem.
Actually, Macs have frequently been 'non serviceable'. The first one, 40 years ago, was not upgradable. Oddly, people really liked it. The Mac mini when it was introduced was designed to be sealed up. There were not supposed to be user servicable parts inside. Yet it was popular and succeeded, despite the fact that breaking into it needed butter knives and spatulas.
There are in fact good technical reasons in high speed systems you want fixed components. The RAM in M-series Macs is actually inside the CPU, so really you'd have to hack it apart with a pickaxe, which doesn't seem wise, and the SSD is soldered to the motherboard for speed and reliability, to avoid inconsistent pin contacts or oxidation - or indeed the classic problem of chips walking out of sockets.
It does, admittedly, place a bit of an onus on the consumer having the tiniest notion of what they want to use the machine for when they buy it, and perhaps that irks a few who can't be bothered, but honestly that isn't Apple's fault.
Personally, I couldn't care less what you remember Cook as being, and I suspect he won't either.
You're right in one thing: he cares about shareholders more than us as consumers. That is actually the job he is paid to do. I suspect I know what would happen if you did mail in your CV as I initially suggested.
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Absolutely agree 100% with you. His time has come. There’s a line of new generation innovative leaders waiting to take Apple where it belongs.
What are you talking about? Their computers and phones are better than ever. And the competition keeps pumping out tired garbage.
If anyone made mistakes at Apple, it was late-era Johnny Ive, who was Steve Jobs' right hand man basically. He nearly destroyed the 2016-2021 generation Macbook Pro and a few other products with his obsession on making everything as thin as possible. And Tim Cook nudged him out and the products have gotten better without him.
His job is to make money for shareholders
As long as that’s happening your “analysis” is irrelevant
The point I’m making is nobody wants the additional thing on their heads
It’s a waste of time & it won’t work.
It won’t work as people don’t like putting additional things on their head
That’s my point.
Companies have tried this for years at various different levels & it’s never successful because people don’t want things on their head as it’s just silly & boring & not needed
While the 1st post was just clueless ramblings you really notched it up to 11 here:
Ive's designs was a major reason why so much HW was compromised around 10 years ago, and Apple would have been better of if they had fired him ca 2010
He too smart to take on a job he is not only not qualified for but would also burn him out within months.
Ive's designs was a major reason why so much HW was compromised around 10 years ago, and Apple would have been better of if they had fired him ca 2010
He too smart to take on a job he is not only not qualified for but would also burn him out within months.
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We're all pretty sure that it's here to stay. At the current price vs. what you can do with it, I agree that it's not preferred for many, but as tech advances and prices adjust there will be more of a market with the killer apps.
It's just a matter of time, but we all know that Apple won't be cancelling AVP in 3 years.
I can only agree with that. Since the introduction of the Apple Silicon Macs, the quality and performance of these devices has increased dramatically.
The Jobs/Ive era and the Ive-alone era produced one problematic device after another. Many failures – 2011 graphics cards, butterfly keyboards, etc. – and near-failures such as the 2013 Mac Pro and the Touch Bar.
I always own three MBs in parallel, a Pro at home, a Pro at work, an Air for traveling. The Pros are always fully maxed out, and the Air is always the cheapest configuration. And at work I also use a Mac mini and, more recently, a Mac Studio. I replace all my MBPs early and sell them. Over the years, I've owned these MBPs (all fully maxed out):
17" early and mid 2009 – ok, but slow CPU/RAM, staid slow even after I had replaced the HDDs with SSDs
17" late 2011 – I loved these two machines, but both had graphics card failures (repeatedly, even after repairs)
15" early 2013 – ok, but slow despite being fully maxed out, but at least no technical problems
15" mid-2015 – best MBPs of the Intel era, kept them until 2019, downside: the screen size of only 15.4"
15" 2017 – very bad, I sold them after a few months and continued to use the 2015 MBPs
16" 2019 – good devices, disadvantages: the Touch Bar and the Intel CPU (not only compared to the M1), fans on!
16" 2021 – wow! And never an issue. And the 13" travel MPA M1 in the cheapest configuration felt faster and smoother than the fully maxed out 16" MBP Intel from 2019.
16" 2023 – wow again! And again, no problems at all. And the 15" travel MPA M3 seems to be just as fast as the maxed out 16" M1 from 2021.
I know this is anecdotal, but I also managed all the devices in our company until 2020, and during these years it took up a decent chunk of my work time to take care of it (the company size is about 30 employees), but since then virtually no IT work has been needed other than MDM.
Jobs was great (but a bit of a fraud at times). Ive has only been good with Jobs as a counterpart, on his own he was and is a nothing, a zero, a nil. Just watch an interview with him – a hilariously overblown null. This guy has nothing to say. Jobs knew how to use him – and maybe more importantly – how to stop him. I'm still convinced that he didn't leave on his own, but that Cook had to wait a few years until he had maneuvered himself into an impossible position with all the failures he produced, and then Cook gave him the chance to leave on his own terms because it could have backfired if he had fired him.
I think Cook is underestimated. I do not buy the criticism that he is more money and shareholder oriented than Jobs. I had a budget until I handed over the IT – all macOS and some iOS devices – three years ago to a colleague, and this budget still goes over my desk. The device costs per employee per day have come down over the last 15 years. And quite significantly. The devices themselves in terms of purchase, maintenance, and resale have become less expensive for the company – we are now around 2 Euros per day and device, less than half of what it was ten years ago, and the IT management costs are now negligible compared to ten years ago. Even my two fully maxed out MBP Pros (and yes, with 8 TB) cost me only around 7 to 9 Euro a day (depending on the resale price I will achieve). For the importance they have in my work and private live this is not a lot.
After more than 30 years of programming, managing computers at work, etc. it is the first time that the IT is not an issue anymore for me due the Apple Silicon devices. Now they are just tools, they are fast and have no technical issues. I know people at other companies managing Windows and Linux environments, and it sounds like they still have the good old times of a trouble here, a trouble there, a trouble waiting at the horizon. I'm so glad that this is over for me. What for others is "Apple has becoming boring" for me is "the issues have finally been solved". And this is due to Cook in my opinion.
The reason why the AVP will be a flop is this
You don’t wear glasses when you don’t need them
He is an artist, and the definition of an artist is to make pointless stuff that may make other people think.
For a tech company you need an engineer to tell you what will actually work, an artist to come up with new ideas, a marketing guy that can sell the stuff and a numbers guy to make sure you stay profitable.
Give one of those 4 corners too much power/control and you will start going down one way or the other.
Apple did have that balance in the really early days, the regained it when Jobs returned only to loose it again when he faded and died.
All indicators show that kicking out Ive brought some balance back with maybe a slight overweight on the accounting part which may or may not bite them in the #### if not corrected.