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You mean, beside actual graphics-related tasks? Anything where parallel processing is possible but higher precision is required. Like content creation, image data manipulation, scientific applications...

In principle, it can be done using the CPU vector units, but then again you already have this massive parallel processor in your system anyway (you do want to play games, right?), so you might as well use it :)
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Rosetta and Rosetta 2 are completely different beasts. I believe Rosetta 2 will stay here for a long while. At some point Apple will simply stop supporting building of Intel binaries for macOS. But I am sure you’ll be able to run your older games for a long while. And even if Apple decides to remove Rosetta 2 and OpenGL completely, open source projects to work around it will pop up. The groundwork is already there.
thank you.
 
Um..... I’m assuming you missed the entire part of the keynote where an x86 game (shadow of the tomb raider) was running in emulation on an A12z at 1080p and a decent frame rate??? Is emulation ideal? Absolutely not but it appears to work well enough that you still should be able to use x86 programs and games, steam games included.
I find it amazing that we have all these GB5 and GFXBench results on A12Z, but not 1 run of the Shadow of the Tomb Raider benchmark.
 
Um..... I’m assuming you missed the entire part of the keynote where an x86 game (shadow of the tomb raider) was running in emulation on an A12z at 1080p and a decent frame rate??? Is emulation ideal? Absolutely not but it appears to work well enough that you still should be able to use x86 programs and games, steam games included.


Tomb Raider was not running in emulation though. With Rosetta 2, the app had been recompiled to ARM code at time of installation. There are probably some elements that had to be emulated due to a lack of direct conversions for certain portions of the code, but what you were seeing on screen during WWDC was a post-port version of the game.
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I find it amazing that we have all these GB5 and GFXBench results on A12Z, but not 1 run of the Shadow of the Tomb Raider benchmark.

From what I understand, the build of Big Sur they were using at WWDC was significantly further along the development path with respect to Rosetta 2 and dual ARM/Intel code than anything we have seen in the public betas so far. This is not a new practice for Apple, as they always hold out some elements of the new OS until later in the beta cycle.
 

Casually gaming is larger. Mobile gaming is lager. Whether you like it or not.

And with the seismic access to millions of apps and games the Mac will be in an order of magnitude market that lead to greater things.

Apple games success was never going to do it the Mac gaming tower way with premium prices and inferior specs (combined with a lack of company focus on games...) with 2nd rate open gl and 2nd rate ports. That approach is as dead as a dodo.

Apple are moving in a new direction.

Intel on Mac is over. As are Nv. And soon to be AMD.

Candy Crush? Ironically, didn't Activision (the owners of 'traditional' PC gaming...) pay $4 billion for that?

Azrael.
 
i wonder how can you install iphone/ipad apps on arm macs since you dont have the ios app store on big sur ?!
 
Casually gaming is larger. Mobile gaming is lager. Whether you like it or not.

And with the seismic access to millions of apps and games the Mac will be in an order of magnitude market that lead to greater things.

Apple games success was never going to do it the Mac gaming tower way with premium prices and inferior specs (combined with a lack of company focus on games...) with 2nd rate open gl and 2nd rate ports. That approach is as dead as a dodo.

Apple are moving in a new direction.

Intel on Mac is over. As are Nv. And soon to be AMD.

Candy Crush? Ironically, didn't Activision (the owners of 'traditional' PC gaming...) pay $4 billion for that?

Azrael.
5.9 billion

freemium games are big money. Very few of them have a real story to them. Very few of them are stunning displays of graphical power either.
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i wonder how can you install iphone/ipad apps on arm macs since you dont have the ios app store on big sur ?!
Games that have the cross buy feature enabled should show up in the Mac App Store.
 
With Rosetta 2, the app had been recompiled to ARM code at time of installation
from my testing, what is under rosetta installation, takes about 20-30% of the initial performance...so the first mac chip should be at least 30% faster than the A12Z to outcome what you are getting lose under rosetta 2
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Games that have the cross buy feature enabled should show up in the Mac App Store.
nothing yet here..maybe they will activate it in fall
 
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Yeah? Cool! Can multiple thousands of games provide them too?
Those games are not all made by Valve.
Apple sells more apps thought their store than Valve does Mac games BTW. Is Apple not pleased by the ARM transition?
 
Can’t wait to play the Apple Silicon versions of Sea of Thieves, God of War, Uncharted and The Last of Us...
Yes, because the PC ports for those titles were done so well.... /s (in other words, with the exception of SoT, they don't exist, and no streaming doesn't count)

Not sure if you're being sarcastic?

Running tomb raider at 720p with all the eye candy turned off is already possible on my Iris Pro on my 2020 MBP 13 at over 30 fps.

Apple's demo showed no FPS counter and no details on resolution and how many features were enabled/disabled to reproduce the demo.

Show me Apple Silicon playing Doom Eternal at 1080P with most eye candy on with decent fps and we're talking (which is currently possible with 5600M on the MBP 16)
 
True, but it doesn’t really mean much when talking about gaming. Better to run real games for that. Shoot even a fortnite bench would be nice.

You are undoubtedly right, but people who actually got a DTK probably don't want to get blacklisted. Since you know, their livelihood might depend on the ability to publish apps for Apple platform.
 
Yes, because the PC ports for those titles were done so well.... /s (in other words, with the exception of SoT, they don't exist, and no streaming doesn't count)

Not sure if you're being sarcastic?

Running tomb raider at 720p with all the eye candy turned off is already possible on my Iris Pro on my 2020 MBP 13 at over 30 fps.

Apple's demo showed no FPS counter and no details on resolution and how many features were enabled/disabled to reproduce the demo.

Show me Apple Silicon playing Doom Eternal at 1080P with most eye candy on with decent fps and we're talking (which is currently possible with 5600M on the MBP 16)
Yes for some of those I was being sarcastic. For all the talk about how awesome Apples hardware is going to be (or is for iOS) we sure don’t see games like the ones listed. I appreciate the work Aspyr and Feral do, we shouldn’t have to rely on them for getting games with a great story.
You are undoubtedly right, but people who actually got a DTK probably don't want to get blacklisted. Since you know, their livelihood might depend on the ability to publish apps for Apple platform.
I would imagine Epic & Acti-Blizzard have the hardware and could tease things like UE5 and WoW:Shadowlands performance and Apple would say squat.
 
I would imagine Epic & Acti-Blizzard have the hardware and could tease things like UE5 and WoW:Shadowlands performance and Apple would say squat.

Directly violate an NDA and risk a nasty lawsuit? Come on. Also, wouldn't t make much more sense to tease the performance using the actual hardware rather than a rigged iPad? I am more then sure that all kind of "teasers" are incoming, but they will be prepared in full collaboration with Apple.
 
Directly violate an NDA and risk a nasty lawsuit? Come on. Also, wouldn't t make much more sense to tease the performance using the actual hardware rather than a rigged iPad? I am more then sure that all kind of "teasers" are incoming, but they will be prepared in full collaboration with Apple.
Waiting for real hardware would be nice. Like with the XSX and PS5, development studios have given nods to levels of performance in the past. Epic has flat out stated that the UE5 engine demo could run at a higher frame rate on PS5 than what they showed.
Stating something like we did an early build on test hardware and it ran really well or comparative to competing hardware isn’t something Apple would be mad about is it?
 
Apple's demo showed no FPS counter and no details on resolution and how many features were enabled/disabled to reproduce the demo.
Yeah we all noticed that. Said "Bullshots" are typical of the gaming industry unfortunately. I don't have hopes that the 1st gen silicon will be able to match the high end mobile stuff they have now. (i.e. dGPU products, I think they'll handily beat the iGPU Intel macs)

Still, to play devil's advocate, it wouldn't matter how well it ran the demo in context, people would still call it bad unless it was beating high-end PC's. It's the typical B.S. on every hardware release "oh I could build x PC for y less money."

Show me Apple Silicon playing Doom Eternal at 1080P with most eye candy on with decent fps and we're talking (which is currently possible with 5600M on the MBP 16)
The silicon likely wasn't finalized and/or the prototypes they had weren't stable. The last thing they'd want is for the game to crash on livestream. (Also I highly doubt the 1st gen Silicon will be able to match a dGPU yet.)
 
The silicon likely wasn't finalized and/or the prototypes they had weren't stable. The last thing they'd want is for the game to crash on livestream. (Also I highly doubt the 1st gen Silicon will be able to match a dGPU yet.)

Or how about an even more compelling reason: there is no Mac version of Doom Eternal?
 
Show me Apple Silicon playing Doom Eternal at 1080P with most eye candy on with decent fps and we're talking (which is currently possible with 5600M on the MBP 16)

Doom Eternal. Medicore more of the same from the run with big gun and jump genre...

I wasn't that impressed with the graphics either.

We'll have to see what AS can do in terms of that mono-genre from the PC Gamer stable.

I felt a passive cooled A12z showed great promise running Lara.

But it's not like consumer Intel Macs are any good. Most have crap iG.

So chances are anything Apple does is going to be an improvement.

Matching an 8 core Intel and 'last year's' 5700 (which still isn't even on the Mac desktop yet...) would be a decent start.

We've got nothing but a 'sneak preview' to go on. And nothing like the shipping Apple Silicon.

It's not like Intel have setting the world alight cpu temps aside. Or AMD's gpus. Pretty mediocre stuff.

On the PC side. It's been pretty stagnant for 5 years.

£1200 for a 2080ti. *Shrugs. Lack of competition that is.

AMD have finally got competitive with cpus in the last year or so. But it's been pretty bad before that. And Apple won't be using them. But may, indirectly, compete with them.

Given the price of PC gaming. I'd rather buy a PS5.

Nv can stick their £1200 2080 Ti.

Azrael.
 
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"Real gaming"? No true Scotsman?

As for volume, I think this will tremendously increase the number of games on the desktop since a ton of iOS games will be coming directly over. I also think it will increase the amount of developed games for desktop as developers can then create a game for iOS and desktop easily at the same time. I could not speak to "AAA" computer only titles. It will boil down to how easy is it for a developer to create Windows and Mac versions. Only developers who create multi-platform apps/games and are trying out the new dev box could speak on the effort.
 
Doom Eternal. Medicore more of the same from the run with big gun and jump genre...

I wasn't that impressed with the graphics either.

We'll have to see what AS can do in terms of that mono-genre from the PC Gamer stable.

I felt a passive cooled A12z showed great promise running Lara.

But it's not like consumer Intel Macs are any good. Most have crap iG.

So chances are anything Apple does is going to be an improvement.

Matching an 8 core Intel and 'last year's' 5700 (which still isn't even on the Mac desktop yet...) would be a decent start.

We've got nothing but a 'sneak preview' to go on. And nothing like the shipping Apple Silicon.

It's not like Intel have setting the world alight cpu temps aside. Or AMD's gpus. Pretty mediocre stuff.

On the PC side. It's been pretty stagnant for 5 years.

£1200 for a 2080ti. *Shrugs. Lack of competition that is.

AMD have finally got competitive with cpus in the last year or so. But it's been pretty bad before that. And Apple won't be using them. But may, indirectly, compete with them.

Given the price of PC gaming. I'd rather buy a PS5.

Nv can stick their £1200 2080 Ti.

Azrael.
I want this on my Mac
Control-Screenshot-2019.08.25-08.10.07.08.high_.jpg
 
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