The final blow for real gaming on the Mac, or the beginning of a new era?

[sosumilee]

You keep talking about "technology", but what does it even mean? Apple even makes it's own GPUs. What's more "technology" than this?

MS doesn't make GPU but they have great technology for gaming itself such as directstorage and DirectX.

To add some games from my genre to the list: recent Total War titles (Warhammer, Three Kingdoms, Troy), Larian games (Divinity Series, Baldur's Gates 3), Civilization VI, upcoming Humankind from Amplitude...

Why you we so keen on AAA games anyway? Popular engines such as Unity and Unreal support Metal, so pretty much every recent indie game released for macOS runs on Metal.

By the way, 3Dmark (developer of industry standard gaming benchmarks) just released a brand new cross-platform benchmark. Guess what API it uses on Apple platforms.

Beceause that's how we know if Mac or PC are popular with the gaming industry. Supporting Metal does not mean anything. You need to admit that Mac isn't a good platform for gaming.

 

[leman]

MS doesn't make GPU but they have great technology for gaming itself such as directstorage and DirectX.

And Apple has great technology for gaming such as Metal, not to mention Apple-compatible game engines such as Unity (which by the way was originally developed for Mac) *shrug* Not really sure what your point is.

Beceause that's how we know if Mac or PC are popular with the gaming industry. Supporting Metal does not mean anything. You need to admit that Mac isn't a good platform for gaming.

No, currently Mac is not a good platform for gaming — because only few Macs have GPUs good enough and they are too expensive. This is likely to change with Apple Silicon Macs however.

 

[jeanlain]

Can you tell me any AAA games made out of Metal from the beginning just for Mac?

What do you mean "form the beginning just for Mac"? No one makes a game "just for Mac".
But AAA games have been ported to Metal. Keep in mind that Metal wasn't a viable option until macOS 10.12.4 I think.

Metal (API) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[sosumilee]

What do you mean "form the beginning just for Mac"? No one makes a game "just for Mac".
But AAA games have been ported to Metal. Keep in mind that Metal wasn't a viable option until macOS 10.12.4 I think.

Metal (API) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Porting games is a different story but it does not change my point. Most games are developed from PC, not Mac and then they plan to port it to Mac. But still, only few of them ported to Mac and dont expect any major online or AAA games for Mac at this point.

 

[leman]

Porting games is a different story but it does not change my point. Most games are developed from PC, not Mac and then they plan to port it to Mac. But still, only few of them ported to Mac and dont expect any major online or AAA games for Mac at this point.

Yes, most games are either ported from PC or are actually made with cross-platform in mind (when you use an engine such as Unity). And yes, games that require fast hardware are often not ported (for obvious reasons). As to "major online games...", lets look at what internet claims to be some of the most popular online games in 2020 (in no specific order):

- Fortnite (has a Mac version)
- PUBG (no Mac version, but iOS version — runs on Metal)
- LOL (has a Mac version)
- Hearthstone (has a Mac version)
- Splatoon 2 (Switch exclusive)
- Minecraft (has a Mac version)
- CoD (has a Mac version)

And let's add some popular/well known MMORPGS

- WoW (has a Mac version)
- Destiny 2 (no Mac version)
- GTA V (no Mac version)
- Elder Scrolls Online (has a Mac version)
- Guild Wars 2 (has a Mac version)
- EVE online (has a Mac version)
- RuneScape (has a Mac version) — wow, people still play this??


As you can see, it's not perfect, but also not too shabby considering the "3% market share"

 

[sosumilee]

- Fortnite (has a Mac version)
- PUBG (no Mac version, but iOS version — runs on Metal)
- LOL (has a Mac version)
- Hearthstone (has a Mac version)
- Splatoon 2 (Switch exclusive)
- Minecraft (has a Mac version)
- CoD (has a Mac version)

- WoW (has a Mac version)
- Destiny 2 (no Mac version)
- GTA V (no Mac version)
- Elder Scrolls Online (has a Mac version)
- Guild Wars 2 (has a Mac version)
- EVE online (has a Mac version)
- RuneScape (has a Mac version) — wow, people still play this??

You failed to prove it again and again. Some of them dont even support Mac version. I thought we are talking about PC/Console games? Who would want to play mobile games on Mac while they can also play them on different devices? And where are AAA games? Your lists dont even prove that Mac's gaming market is profitable like PC or console.

 

[leman]

Some of them dont even support Mac version.

And some of them don't support Windows version. I gave you a list of some of the most popular online games and shown that around 80% of them can be played on Mac. I really don't understand what you want. Nobody here is arguing that every single game runs on a Mac or that Macs are a choice platform for playing games. But it's a fact that — depending on what kind of games you are interested in — gaming on Mac is alive and thriving.

I thought we are talking about PC/Console games?

With that line of reasoning you will soon start arguing that Windows is bad for gaming. Because a lot of console games never get ported to Windows you know.

 

[mr_roboto]

Can you tell me any AAA games made out of Metal from the beginning just for Mac? Also, that article is 5 years old! And now, how many games are available in Mac with Metal API especially with AAA level? You see, after 5 years, there isn't any or many AAA games especially just for Mac. Even they do, they dont release it right away for Mac. I keep telling facts here.

People failed to prove anything after all.

Dude. Do you not understand that Metal, the technology, can be quite good even if all the games you want on the Mac aren't on the Mac? Game dev studios don't choose platforms based on tech. They choose them based on where they think they'll make the most money.

You seem to have an extremely childish understanding of the world, or are just deliberately being obtuse, or both.

 

[Maximara]

1. You are talking about un-popular AAA game? lol. And that's only one example and you failed to prove it. I said, how many AAA games do Mac has and do any of them developed from Mac, not PC?
2. Also failed to prove it. How many people would play games from Mac compared to PC? It's very obvious.
3. I said, it has nothing to do with the performance. How come Nintendo Switch is popular without a great performance and yet supports several AAA games? Both PS5 and Xbox Series X are made out of cheap APU which you cant even imagine. You see, you are the one who does not understand why Mac isn't popular for gaming.
4. You didnt even answer the question for 4.
5. It has nothing to do with my argument. You just dont wanna hear the fact that both PC and console are dominating while Mac is not. I'm talking about PC/console in here.
6. Now you are criticize Intel for poor performance while Apple is the one who made a poor quality of cooling system? There are tons of gaming laptop performs much better than Mac. Why Apple didnt make a thicker laptop then? You just lost the credibility when you argue about this toward Intel that it's their fault while Apple is also the cause. Also, having a high performance has NOTHING to do with the gaming industry. It's also about the support and environment which Mac does not have.
7. Im talking about now. Geforce Now costs $5 or $10 less base on the region you live with ray tracing. Also, my network is only 100 Mbps for each. You failed to prove it once again.
8. Tell me, who buys Mac for gaming? None.

1. 4.12 million units sold is unpopular?! Compare that to the dumpster fire that is Failout 76 at 1.4 million Besides unpopular does not mean "bad" (though in Failout's case that is true)
2. You implied it with that "Do you really think macOS have more games than Windows?"
3. "PS5 and Xbox Series X" are consoles and I addressed that a while ago ala the Pip pin cheerio comment.
4 I did.
5. Have you even been reading what I post? One of my comments to your point 2 was "I have pointed out before ithe Mac is around ~10%; on what planet is that not a niche market?! How in the name of sanity is not accepting that both PC and console are dominate the gaming market?
6. What part of Apple designed the Macs based on what Intel promised them did you not understand? That was the whole point of Wilhelm Kress and his seaplane. He (like Apple) designed his plane (computer) around an engine of a certain weight and power (speed and heat production) and the company he ordered the engine (chip) from screwed up (Intel) and things promptly went pear shaped. This may surprise you but changing computer design is akin to changing the corse of a oil tanker at full speed.
7. And I am talking about the future and as I have said again and again the present isn't always a predictor of the future.
8. enough people to make Mac ports of LOL (the game not the laugh ), Hearthstone,, Minecraft, CoD,
WoW, Elder Scrolls Online, Guild Wars 2, EVE online, RuneScape. Heck there are people who get Linux (with a pathetic 0.8% for the whole platform) for gaming (running Windows games via WINE...which yes odd are doesn't work too well but it is what it is)! But by that logic who buys XboX to play Nintendo games?

 

[Maximara]

With that line of reasoning you will soon start arguing that Windows is bad for gaming. Because a lot of console games never get ported to Windows you know.

Something I alluded to a long time ago. If you go to a bricks and mortar store and you will see that the majority of games are console. It is bad even if you include all the finding puzzle games at Walmart

Dude. Do you not understand that Metal, the technology, can be quite good even if all the games you want on the Mac aren't on the Mac? Game dev studios don't choose platforms based on tech. They choose them based on where they think they'll make the most money.

You seem to have an extremely childish understanding of the world, or are just deliberately being obtuse, or both.

Extra Credits had a very good piece on this: Why Console Specs Don't Matter. Worse yet the same game isn't the same across consoles.

Heck, as Yahtzee said in his Star Wars: The Force Unleashed that he didn't do the proper research and got the Wii version when from what he saw the PS3 was of better quality (at lease graphic wise) and so by his "stupid, stupid choice" and had to review a "watery, dead-eyed knock-off that would have embarrassed a last-generation console with pickax lodge in it." version of the game.

Remember how they messed up the PC ports Batman: Arkham Knight purposely crippling the frame rate so the console version wouldn't look bad and increasing the require specs at the last minute? And even then the game didn't run well on the cards it as supposed to run on (basically you got an AMD graphic card? Well, sucks to be you.)? Hardware wise that is effectively what Intel did to Apple only their case Apple had to make do.

There is a lot of incentive to go to ARM on the PC side of things - it allows far faster speed for the power needed which results in decent graphics in the laptop market without the battery going kaput after about 6 hours...maybe (which is just above the Desktop market - possibly within margin of error). Microsoft has been chomping at the ARM bit for two years but they know, for now, Intel is where their desktop bread and butter is.

Unless Intel does a Duparoh (Nylon's original name - DUpont Pulls a Rabbit Out of a Hat) the evidence for the future indicates a slow agonizing decline for Intel (Yes, they have an ARM chip but when was the last time you ever heard anything about it?) as even ADM is hedging their bets with the AMD Opteron A1100 A-Series which is an "ARM-based SOC delivering scale-out performance, energy efficiency and optimized TCO." aimed as the Data center market.

 

[diamond.g]

Something I alluded to a long time ago. If you go to a bricks and mortar store and you will see that the majority of games are console. It is even bad even if you include all the finding puzzle games at Walmart



Extra Credits had a very good piece on this: Why Console Specs Don't Matter. Worse yet the same game isn't the same across consoles.

Heck, as Yahtzee said in his Star Wars: The Force Unleashed that he didn't do the proper research and got the Wii version when from what he saw the PS3 was of better quality (at lease graphic wise) and so by his "stupid, stupid choice" and had to review a "watery, dead-eyed knock-off that would have embarrassed a last-generation console with pickax lodge in it." version of the game.

Remember how they messed up the PC ports Batman: Arkham Knight purposely crippling the frame rate so the console version wouldn't look bad and increasing the require specs at the last minute? And even then the game didn't run well on the cards it as supposed to run on (basically you got an AMD graphic card? Well such to be you)? Hardware wise that is effectively what Intel did to Apple only their case Apple had to make do.

IIRC all three of the Batman games are GameWorks games, so they are going to run better on nvidia hardware as opposed to AMD hardware.

 

[Maximara]

IIRC all three of the Batman games are GameWorks games, so they are going to run better on nvidia hardware as opposed to AMD hardware.

Their full name is Nvidia GameWorks so no duh. But the the article previously linked has the title 5 Tips to fix ‎Batman: Arkham Knight PC - AMD & Nvidia Cards. So Nvidia was so laser focused on the console market that they crippled the game FPS rate on PCs even if the PC in question was using their own graphics card!

 

[diamond.g]

Their full name is Nvidia GameWorks so no duh. But the the article previously linked has the title 5 Tips to fix ‎Batman: Arkham Knight PC - AMD & Nvidia Cards. So Nvidia was so laser focused on the console market that they crippled the game FPS rate on PCs even if the PC in question was using their own graphics card!

PC Gamers are an interesting bunch. The game is capped at 30 by the devs cause reasons, so PC players think the game is broken. That is why we game on the Mac right? So we don't get the option to uncap framerates or update drivers for better performance...

 

[thenewperson]

So AAA games are going to come to MacOS from indie game devs that are currently putting games (that are not AAA) on iOS. Is this where we are in this thread?

Is this solely about AAA games? Why is there a constant need to drive things back to those?

 

[diamond.g]

Is this solely about AAA games? Why is there a constant need to drive things back to those?

Because games like Uncharted are visually appealing and have a good story arc and I see no reason why they shouldn't be on Apples Platforms.

Everyone here believes Apples kit is the bees knees (otherwise why are we here right?) so why is it so bad to want higher standards (graphically, storywise, etc) for our kit?

Why don't we have games like No Mans Sky, or why are games like Elite Dangerous dropped?

Someone earlier on brought up Eve Online as a MMO game that is on Mac, that is true, they also released an iOS version of the game two-ish months ago. As an Eve player (I play both versions since they are separate games/universes) I am slightly concerned that CCP is just going to bring the iOS version to AS Macs as the Mac version is using Wine to run the Windows version of the game. And it doesn't look like CCP is going to make a Metal native version.

 

[Maximara]

PC Gamers are an interesting bunch. The game is capped at 30 by the devs cause reasons, so PC players think the game is broken. That is why we game on the Mac right? So we don't get the option to uncap framerates or update drivers for better performance...

There are ways to do that if the config file is done right (one of the port I have is where you have go messing around with this file rather then the programmer doing something intelligent like giving a freaking menu option)

Because games like Uncharted are visually appealing and have a good story arc and I see no reason why they shouldn't be on Apples Platforms.

Everyone here believes Apples kit is the bees knees (otherwise why are we here right?) so why is it so bad to want higher standards (graphically, storywise, etc) for our kit?

Five words explain this: Windows focused priority game engine.

If the engine is gear towards the Windows based DirectX API then porting is a problem. This is why WoW has been so easy to update on the Mac - it started out live as a modified Warcraft III engine which ran on the MacOS form the get go. The engine was cross platform and so no real worsting was needed. Hearthstone similarly is on the Unity engine which is corssplatform out of the box as long as you don't do something silly and over code for Windows. Overwatch, by contrast is a Window focused priority game engine - which is why odds are it wouldn't be ported to the Mac baring a Windows ARM version coming out.

 

[leman]

Five words explain this: Windows focused priority game engine.

If the engine is gear towards the Windows based DirectX API then porting is a problem. This is why WoW has been so easy to update on the Mac - it started out live as a modified Warcraft III engine which ran on the MacOS form the get go. The engine was cross platform and so no real worsting was needed. Hearthstone similarly is on the Unity engine which is corssplatform out of the box as long as you don't do something silly and over code for Windows. Overwatch, by contrast is a Window focused priority game engine - which is why odds are it wouldn't be ported to the Mac baring a Windows ARM version coming out.

There are a bunch of things that come to my mind.

1. Fundamental software design. Most of the time, it is not rocket science to port your engine to a different GPU API. They are all fairly similar after all. But if a game is developed with a particular API in mind, changing it afterwards can be tricky. If you have competent software designers who understand the technology and design the software with proper abstractions in place, multi-API ports are neither difficult nor costly (of course, mileage might vary). Tools like MoltenVK make it much simpler by the way.

2. Required performance. As mentioned frequently, most Macs only have weak GPUs (and the driver situation doesn't help either). It makes them a no-go for graphically demanding games that need predictable performance. There is no surprise that shooters (and in general first person style games) are almost entirely absent from macOS. Strategy games and RPGs on the other hand — where graphics are usually less demanding and frame rates are less critical to the experience, are much more ubiquitous on Macs — because more Macs can run it. There is little sense for id to make Doom for Mac if the only machines capable of running to are close to $3000 mark. There is a lot of sense for Paradox to release something like Crusader Kings for Macs — they will be able to reach many more users.

3. Last and probably most important point: management decisions. Yes, games are business etc. etc. — but they are also creative works. The main reason why there is no Skyrim for Mac is not because there is no market or money but most likely because Tod Howard doesn't give a damn about Macs. The main reasons why we are getting Baldur's Gates 3 on Mac (even in EA!) is not because Larian sees a lot of profit in the platform but most likely because Sven Winkle likes Macs and wants his games to run on the platform. We constantly see small studios churning out cross-platform games of good quality where large companies with gigantic revenues are only making a Windows or a PS version. It doesn't make sense if we are only thinking about profits. It does make sense if we realize that these are just arbitrary management decisions.

Bottomline: If your game doesn't need a 200 watt GPU to run properly, if your software engineers are competent and you want your fans to be able to enjoy your games no matter their platform choices, you will find a way to make your product cross-platform — without blowing up your budget. On the other hand, if all you care about are revenues, you hire monkeys to code your game to drive down the expenses and you don't give a crap about your users as long as they pay and shut up — then yes, cross-platform is a burden.

 

[MysticCow]

The problem is indeed the GPU, as lower-end Macs won't run them well.

Imagine being me, with the double whammy of a not-optimized Java AND a not-optimized OpenGL (2011 mini can't do Metal and the app I use with this double whammy isn't Metal-capable)...

It's a lot more than "just the graphics card." It's piss-poor implementation of technologies that rely on the graphics card compared to Windows.

 

[theSeb]

Out of curiosity I took a look at the top 50 current best sellers on Steam. Some of them are "AAA" games. Many are not.

18/50 support Mac OS. So that is 36%. Not too bad in my opinion.

On a side note, I must say that I don't understand the obsession with "AAA" games myself. Usually that means simple and paper thin gameplay that lasts about 10 hours, 20 hours if you are lucky if it's a single player game. If it's MP then it's some kind of "Battle Royale" variant, whichever one happens to be the flavour of the year.

No Man's Sky... is that even AAA? I guess I am not just not down the with kids and prefer to play games that are far more interesting to me than COD 3021 Shadow OPS Modern Warfare XXX Super Turbo edition 5.

 

[Maximara]

2. Required performance. As mentioned frequently, most Macs only have weak GPUs (and the driver situation doesn't help either). It makes them a no-go for graphically demanding games that need predictable performance. There is no surprise that shooters (and in general first person style games) are almost entirely absent from macOS. Strategy games and RPGs on the other hand — where graphics are usually less demanding and frame rates are less critical to the experience, are much more ubiquitous on Macs — because more Macs can run it. There is little sense for id to make Doom for Mac if the only machines capable of running to are close to $3000 mark. There is a lot of sense for Paradox to release something like Crusader Kings for Macs — they will be able to reach many more users.

Actually there have been cross platform open source shooters such as OpenArena which performed reasonably but haven't seen updates on either side in years (2012) though Red Eclipse, Warsow, and Xonotic all show promise provided they have gone metal and are not trying to squeeze the last bit of life out of the joke that is Apple's OpenGL like GZDoom and Zandronum seemed to have been doing.

Out of curiosity I took a look at the top 50 current best sellers on Steam. Some of them are "AAA" games. Many are not.

18/50 support Mac OS. So that is 36%. Not too bad in my opinion.

When you consider that the Mac's marketshare is only ~10% that is much higher then one would expect and proves the point I have been making. Sure Windows has a lot more games but how many of those are good games?

On a side note, I must say that I don't understand the obsession with "AAA" games myself. Usually that means simple and paper thin gameplay that lasts about 10 hours, 20 hours if you are lucky if it's a single player game. If it's MP then it's some kind of "Battle Royale" variant, whichever one happens to be the flavour of the year.

I think this what everyone else has mentality is that keeps people from even looking for alternatives. This, IMHO, is what Mac users get good at - you know you are on a platform that odds are won't run the latest WizBang console/Windows game so you actively look for something similar.

No Man's Sky... is that even AAA? I guess I am not just not down the with kids and prefer to play games that are far more interesting to me than COD 3021 Shadow OPS Modern Warfare XXX Super Turbo edition 5.

This is what drew me to War for the Overworld a spiritual successor to Dungeon Keeper.

 

[Maximara]

I think people get too hung up on AAA games. There are non AAA games out there that are decent. War of the Overworld as a stand in for Dungeon Keeper comes to mind.

 

[tubular]

I've been a Mac guy for almost as long as there's been a Mac, but in that time the distinguishing characteristic of Apple support for Mac gaming is that it comes and goes and comes and goes. With iOS, it's been steady but constrained by the limitations of the hardware. On the Mac it's been feast or famine, and part of that is that Apple still doesn't seem to have articulated a solid roadmap. There are too many darts and weaves and feints. Is the iPod Touch a gaming platform? Yes but no. Is the Apple TV a gaming platform with a stripped-down game controller? Yes but no. Does Apple support OpenGL? Yes but no.

That doesn't mean there are no fun Mac games -- I probably put 400 hours in on Torchlight II, which is a blast -- but even Torchlight II had to wait two extra years for a Mac release.

Four years ago, encouraged by my gamer son, I finally admitted the truth: I could spend eight hundred bucks buffing a Mac for good game play, or I could spend the same on a Windows tower with GPU and not constantly feel like I was knocking my head against the wall.

So I wish Apple gaming well, and it will be interesting to see what comes of the architectural changes associated with Apple Silicon -- unified memory model, TBDR and such -- and whether that gives gaming a boost. It could happen, and I hope it does. But if it does, it'll take years, and they'll have to convince the game devs that this isn't just another feint. So now, the Mac for most things, the PC for gaming and 3D stuff.

Edit: As a hobby I play with Godot, a reasonably mature open-source cross-platform game engine. The current series, 3.x, uses OpenGL as the foundation of their Mac support. But they're also taking seriously the Apple deprecation of OpenGL, and the 4.x series under development (and likely at least a year away) will use Vulkan where supported, and MoltenVK on the Mac and iOS.

It would make a great great deal of sense for Apple gaming if Apple decided to officially support Vulkan, or even to officially support MoltenVK. But they don't.

 

[theSeb]

When you consider that the Mac's marketshare is only ~10% that is much higher then one would expect and proves the point I have been making. Sure Windows has a lot more games but how many of those are good games?

I have no horse in this race and I wasn't expecting anything. I was surprised that it was as high as 18 out of the top 50.

I think this what everyone else has mentality is that keeps people from even looking for alternatives. This, IMHO, is what Mac users get good at - you know you are on a platform that odds are won't run the latest WizBang console/Windows game so you actively look for something similar.

This is what drew me to War for the Overworld a spiritual successor to Dungeon Keeper.

The only AAA games that I have played in the last 10 years are Fallout 4, Skyrim, GTA V, RDR 2, Civ 5, GTA 4 (replay) and some of the Forza Motorsport series. I am not sure if the Total War Warhammer series is AAA, but, if it is, then you can add it. The games that have held my attention for longer though are more strategy / building type games such as Transport Fever (and 2), Ostriv, Banished, Hearts of Iron IV, Europa Universalis IV, Kingdom Come Deliverance and, oddly enough, Euro Truck Sim 2. However, if I look at what I consider "mainstream AAA" games of the genre that I like the most, I get bored of those pretty quickly. I am talking about games such as Surviving Mars and Tropico. They have much better graphics than an indie game, but the game play loop is just too simple and not compelling.

Full disclosure: I did get frustrated with the bootcamp driver situation and lack of Nvidia cards and got myself a PC for (Visual Studio). Of course it happens to be really good at playing games too. The straw that broke the proverbial camel's back was when a game update complained about my AMD drivers in bootcamp and would no longer run, even though it used to run ok before. Yes, I know there are ways around it, but they weren't ways that I was comfortable with.

Some of the games that I mentioned above are actually available for the Mac, but I hate to clutter up my Macs with games. Don't ask me why, but it helps my mind's organisation to keep the Macs for work stuff. *shrug*

The reality is that if Apple "really" wanted to get into gaming, they could. They have the knowledge and the manpower and the trillions in the bank to court top studios and publishers. They choose not to.

 

[Homy]

You failed to prove it again and again. Your lists dont even prove that Mac's gaming market is profitable like PC or console.

What an obvious point! Of course most games are developed first for Windows. Everybody knows that since that's where the market share is biggest and the money is. That's a fact everybody knows. Neither is the Mac market profitable as pc, but it doesn't mean it's NOT profitable. It's just a matter of how much profit you want to make.

Today Feral, the best Mac game developer/porting company released Bioshock 2 Remastered after 2,5 years in development. The game will be free on Steam for those who already have Bioshock 2 for Mac or BS2 Remastered for Windows. If they didn't make money on that old game they wouldn't waste 2,5 years of their time. It's not charity. 4A Games and Deep Silver wouldn't port the Metro Games including the new Exodus to Mac if it wasn't profitable. Gearbox wouldn't port the Borderlands series including the recent BL3 to Mac if it wasn't profitable.

So the question is not if it's profitable or as profitable as pc market. It's about how greedy they want to be and where to make the really big bucks. Another reason for many games not being available for Mac may not be about money but about lacking interest among Mac gamers. Many of those games you mentioned are not games I want to play. So maybe some popular games on pc are not as much interesting for Mac gamers. I guess that's one upside of being a Mac gamer. Only the best and most interesting games get ported so we don't have to waste our time on "bad" games.

Another reason for the Mac gaming market shrinking may be the Mac gamers themselves who play Windows games on Bootcamp. I've never done that and understand if people do but it's a Catch-22. The fewer people play native Mac games fewer developers will release/port their games to Mac and the fewer Mac games there are the more people will game on Bootcamp.

 

[rkuo]

What an obvious point! Of course most games are developed first for Windows. Everybody knows that since that's where the market share is biggest and the money is. That's a fact everybody knows. Neither is the Mac market profitable as pc, but it doesn't mean it's NOT profitable. It's just a matter of how much profit you want to make.

Today Feral, the best Mac game developer/porting company released Bioshock 2 Remastered after 2,5 years in development. The game will be free on Steam for those who already have Bioshock 2 for Mac or BS2 Remastered for Windows. If they didn't make money on that old game they wouldn't waste 2,5 years of their time. It's not charity. 4A Games and Deep Silver wouldn't port the Metro Games including the new Exodus to Mac if it wasn't profitable. Gearbox wouldn't port the Borderlands series including the recent BL3 to Mac if it wasn't profitable.

So the question is not if it's profitable or as profitable as pc market. It's about how greedy they want to be and where to make the really big bucks. Another reason for many games not being available for Mac may not be about money but about lacking interest among Mac gamers. Many of those games you mentioned are not games I want to play. So maybe some popular games on pc are not as much interesting for Mac gamers. I guess that's one upside of being a Mac gamer. Only the best and most interesting games get ported so we don't have to waste our time on "bad" games.

Another reason for the Mac gaming market shrinking may be the Mac gamers themselves who play Windows games on Bootcamp. I've never done that and understand if people do but it's a Catch-22. The fewer people play native Mac games fewer developers will release/port their games to Mac and the fewer Mac games there are the more people will game on Bootcamp.

All of these games were ported to Switch, so it's possible that the work done to port down to an actually profitable and low powered platform like the Switch made it possible to bring them over to the Mac with less incremental effort.