The future death of Apple?

[Pakaku]

They have lost their mojo - with the M1 and soldering/locking down the traditional user replaceable/upgradeable parts is another thing that pushes people away…

They've been like this for a long time. Look at any iPod from the Steve era, for example. I love the way my iPod Classics work, but have fun cracking open the case if you need to make a repair...

I'd even go as far as to claim Steve's Apple would have kept going down the soldering route and defy the Right To Repair stuff with an iron fist, whereas Tim's Apple is starting to concede, to a degree

 

[Arctic Moose]

They have lost their mojo - with the M1 and soldering/locking down the traditional user replaceable/upgradeable parts is another thing that pushes people away… perhaps only a small segment, but an important segment… those are the most loyal of loyal Apple fans…

Are you ****ing kidding? The M1 is a huge success, much more so than the PPC or Intel transitions, and Apple’s most loyal customers are the ones that are the happiest and the most impressed by what the Mac has become.

 

[maxoakland]

I agree that the magic is gone. Apple still has a chance to turn their way around but if they keep focusing on profit and profit margins at the expense of customer experience, they’ll become just like Microsoft

 

[MauiPa]

I always laugh when someone posts something like this. apple can't innovate - oh wait, apple silicon. No one should get into the discussion, apple is better than windows, or versa vice, they both do the jobs quite well, each has advantages and disadvantages. Personally I think windows sucks, but fine for you if you don't. Android is better than iOS! No, it is only a matter of preference and you are free to choose which you prefer, but no one integrates better than Apple - that is the key driver for me, from CarPlay to my Apple Watch to my iPhone to my Mac - smooth.

Interesting at how Qualcomm is trying to copy Apple on its own line of SOCs, maybe apple can get IP payments, cause with Qualcomm, they patent water and if you want a drink you have to pay, even though you already bought the water.

I'm on developer beta so iOS 16, Ventura, watchOS 9.0. pretty impressive and very few bugs so far.

Apple silicon is probably the best thing to happen to the industry in years. No, not necessarily better than Intel or AMD, but look at the race to the top. The last couple of years have seen more innovation than the last decade. Intels single core scores are faster than Qualcomm's mobile Socs multi-core scores. OK, I admit not the same thing, and who cares about single core scores they are meaningless, except in a combination of a group of cores, but still impressive.

So yeah, RIP apple

 

[ApplesAreSweet&Sour]

It’s not just about phones… they can’t let that box them in… it is innovating and creating other products beyond the phone… the software being used on a phone is a good place for innovation to shine, but thats been lacking for some time too… we will see what 16 brings at the end of the day…

They have lost their mojo - with the M1 and soldering/locking down the traditional user replaceable/upgradeable parts is another thing that pushes people away… perhaps only a small segment, but an important segment… those are the most loyal of loyal Apple fans… lose them, you quickly become unraveled… cause the next batch of consumers are very transitory… and could care less if their phone or whatever it is has an Apple logo on it….

Apple doesn't need to impress professionals and creatives with innovation and user-upgradability/repairs if it can keep its hold on the demographic that throws away and buys new consumer electronics in the $200-$1500 price range every 1-3 years without many questions, the mainstream.

Considering the past 5-10 years, I would be really surprised if Apple lost its' hold on the average consumer.

Sure, nothing lasts forever, and none of us know where the World is tomorrow or in a year.

But a company pulling the numbers that Apple has been doing is not going to vanish soon or even within the next 10-20 years. Well, at least not under Tim Cook.

*Just to be clear, I don't personally want Apple to keep going further in this direction. But financially, it's undeniably the best decision.

 

[StellarVixen]

From article:

"Some companies do this well. Disney and Nintendo are both century-old corporations that continually manage to reinvent themselves and deliver new, exciting stuff."

Disney? Out of all companies, you choose Disney to make an example? Are you serious?

Nintendo I can't comment on, I never played any of their games

 

[Mr. Dee]

I stop reading after a few paragraphs. The part about smart watches existing before the Apple Watch. Come on, Computers existed before the Apple I, MP3 players existed before the iPod, smart phones existed before the iPhone, tablets existed before the iPd.

What’s your point? Apple has always entered
markets and disrupted them. At the end of the day, they make good products. We are in an iterative period, not just Apple, but at every major tech company.

A lot of what we take for granted today was a wild fantasy just 10 to 15 years ago. Until somebody makes a flying car, medicine that heal you from any diseases, teleportation; everything that can be invented has already been invented.

The basic fundamentals we used a computer for 30 to 40 years ago has not changed. The devices have certainly become easier to use and interact with. But I suspect they will be the same in some form 30 to forty years from now. The smart phone is here to stay and so is the Windows PC and Mac.

Obviously, when the earth is covered in 6 and 7G networks, everything will be streamed to
your device from the cloud. But typing that Word document, managing that spreadsheet, editing photos all of it will be same but done completely in the cloud. The idea of local storage will become a thing of the past. We will have more wearable agents and lot of them woven in our environment.

The key though, who will make this seamless and deliver on this.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I always laugh when someone posts something like this.

Not a very open minded approach.
That's a fairly good way to ensure no new information or ideas ever get in.

 

[TightLines]

I stop reading after a few paragraphs. The part about smart watches existing before the Apple Watch. Come on, Computers existed before the Apple I, MP3 players existed before the iPod, smart phones existed before the iPhone, tablets existed before the iPd.

What’s your point? Apple has always entered
markets and disrupted them. At the end of the day, they make good products. We are in an iterative period, not just Apple, but at every major tech company.

A lot of what we take for granted today was a wild fantasy just 10 to 15 years ago. Until somebody makes a flying car, medicine that heal you from any diseases, teleportation; everything that can be invented has already been invented.

The basic fundamentals we used a computer for 30 to 40 years ago has not changed. The devices have certainly become easier to use and interact with. But I suspect they will be the same in some form 30 to forty years from now. The smart phone is here to stay and so is the Windows PC and Mac.

Obviously, when the earth is covered in 6 and 7G networks, everything will be streamed to
your device from the cloud. But typing that Word document, managing that spreadsheet, editing photos all of it will be same but done completely in the cloud. The idea of local storage will become a thing of the past. We will have more wearable agents and lot of them woven in our environment.

The key though, who will make this seamless and deliver on this.

What you are suggesting is the tech companies like Apple, under the influence of the Wall Street parasites, will try to turn the consumer market into the same thing corporate market has already started moving towards in the name of security and cost control? Everything will be subscription based because the parasites that worship profits over what the consumer wants, says that’s what will make them happy. We are investors - we deserve to be happy!

Am I getting your prediction correct, based on your cloud statement? Because in that world, the PC and Mac don’t exist as you suggest, except in name only… the whole technological evolution will have gone full circle… and turn things back to dumb terminal days where it all started with the mainframes?? Everything will be VM/Cloud Based… correct?

This attached with be your computing environment… and when the internet goes down or is removed from you, or your whole community, you will learn to be not so non-compliant… Right?


Someone recently said something I think will come to haunt us as a species if we don’t recognize it for what is really means and put a stop to it… that saying was “You will own nothing, and will be happy about it” - Who said that and where are they from and who do they represent?

 

[StellarVixen]

What you are suggesting is the tech companies like Apple, under the influence of the Wall Street parasites, will try to turn the consumer market into the same thing corporate market has already started moving towards in the name of security and cost control? Everything will be subscription based because the parasites that worship profits over what the consumer wants, says that’s what will make them happy. We are investors - we deserve to be happy!

Am I getting your prediction correct, based on your cloud statement? Because in that world, the PC and Mac don’t exist as you suggest, except in name only… the whole technological evolution will have gone full circle… and turn things back to dumb terminal days where it all started with the mainframes?? Everything will be VM/Cloud Based… correct?

This attached with be your computing environment… and when the internet goes down or is removed from you, or your whole community, you will learn to be not so non-compliant… Right?


Someone recently said something I think will come to haunt us as a species if we don’t recognize it for what is really means and put a stop to it… that saying was “You will own nothing, and will be happy about it” - Who said that and where are they from and who do they represent?


View attachment 2033325

Only we as the consumers can stop this by carefully balancing between convenience and control

Convenience is nice until it requires too much of a sacrifice

 

[KaliYoni]

I'd say that for AAPL–and for any other seemingly unstoppable/monolithic/impregnable company–anything can happen. Don't forget one of the cardinal rules of investing: past performance is not a guarantee of future peformance.

----------
"The Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJIA) was created in 1896 by Charles Dow and originally consisted of 12 companies: American Cotton Oil, American Sugar, American Tobacco, Chicago Gas, Distilling & Cattle Feeding, General Electric, Laclede Gas, National Lead, North American, Tennessee Coal and Iron, U.S. Leather, and U.S. Rubber.

At the time, these companies were among the titans of American industry. Of the original 12 companies, General Electric has remained in business and was a component of the DJIA longest. When it was removed from the DJIA in 2019 it had been a Dow component continuously for over 120 years."

What Were the Original Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJIA) Companies?

The Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJIA) aims to reflect the stock market by tracking the titans of U.S. industry. What did that mean in 1896?

www.investopedia.com

----------
"In 1997, Apple was on the ropes. The Silicon Valley pioneer was being decimated by Microsoft and its many partners in the personal-computer market. It had just cut a third of its work force, and it was about 90 days from going broke, Apple’s late co-founder, Steve Jobs, later said."

Apple Is Worth $1,000,000,000,000. Two Decades Ago, It Was Almost Bankrupt. (Published 2018)

Steve Jobs said Apple was 90 days from bankruptcy in 1997. Now it is the first publicly traded American company to be worth $1 trillion.

www.nytimes.com

 

[svenmany]

A lot of what we take for granted today was a wild fantasy just 10 to 15 years ago. Until somebody makes a flying car, medicine that heal you from any diseases, teleportation; everything that can be invented has already been invented.

Since you're not totally insane, I must just not understand your point here. I invent stuff every day in my job. Invention happens all the time, at many levels; small ideas, medium ideas, big ideas, gigantic ideas. I'm not sure what limitation you have in place that disqualifies all the inventions that are being made all the time.

The basic fundamentals we used a computer for 30 to 40 years ago has not changed. The devices have certainly become easier to use and interact with. But I suspect they will be the same in some form 30 to forty years from now.

This seems so false. But, I guess it depends on your definition of fundamentals. I have no idea what fundamentals you are referring to. 40 years ago I was using punch cards for programming. That seems so fundamentally different than how I work now.

That you think it will be the same 30 to 40 years from now suggests an extraordinary lack of vision. But again, I'm probably not understanding you.

 

[Mr. Dee]

What you are suggesting is the tech companies like Apple, under the influence of the Wall Street parasites, will try to turn the consumer market into the same thing corporate market has already started moving towards in the name of security and cost control? Everything will be subscription based because the parasites that worship profits over what the consumer wants, says that’s what will make them happy. We are investors - we deserve to be happy!

Am I getting your prediction correct, based on your cloud statement? Because in that world, the PC and Mac don’t exist as you suggest, except in name only… the whole technological evolution will have gone full circle… and turn things back to dumb terminal days where it all started with the mainframes?? Everything will be VM/Cloud Based… correct?

This attached with be your computing environment… and when the internet goes down or is removed from you, or your whole community, you will learn to be not so non-compliant… Right?


Someone recently said something I think will come to haunt us as a species if we don’t recognize it for what is really means and put a stop to it… that saying was “You will own nothing, and will be happy about it” - Who said that and where are they from and who do they represent?


View attachment 2033325

It’s already happening. I tried for years to avoid subscribing to iCloud. But Apples nagging was just incessant invasive. I just caved in and paid the $2.99 a month. 30 or 40 years, your iPhone will still have a basic modem for text and calls in case of an emergency. But reality, 98% of your activities on a device is connected the Internet: music, videos, photos, news and information. The novelty of the stationary Mac or Windows PC on a desk in living room are gone.

Gaming which I thought would have been a challenge has gone to the cloud. I personally have up on curating my iTunes library, now I am slowly moving everything over to Spotify.

The unfortunate part is we don’t own things anymore. It’s all about a subscription. But even America in general is a big subscription. Investment firms don’t want us to own but rent instead.

The future for many, do I live with it or choose some remote off the grid lifestyle. I personally want a balance. I hope by the time I reach retirement, I can move somewhere and just wake up everyday and be part of nature and disconnected from Internet.

 

[kevcube]

apple will die if they don't put a fan in the iPhone, crazy that it thermal throttles.

 

[aevan]

Interesting article with many good points. As an Apple customer since the first McIntosh, I too feel the magic is gone. Thoughts from the group?

Apple has never been better and I never enjoyed their products more.

They are also more successful then ever, which is the reason why these clickbaity articles keep popping up. They bring in views. "Apple is doomed", "Playstation is doomed", "Nintendo is doomed" - we get these every year, people love to spell doom for biggest, most popular companies.

Love or hate Apple, this article is laughably bad.

 

[aevan]

From article:

"Some companies do this well. Disney and Nintendo are both century-old corporations that continually manage to reinvent themselves and deliver new, exciting stuff."

Disney? Out of all companies, you choose Disney to make an example? Are you serious?

Nintendo I can't comment on, I never played any of their games

You mean the games they keep re-releasing for years, or making more of the same? Don't get me wrong, Nintendo makes great games and Switch is certainly a success - but Apple is way ahead in terms of "exciting new things" if you ask me.

 

[artfossil]

I’ve only been using Apple computers since the Apple IIc. And speaking for myself the last decade has been incredible and no, the magic isn’t gone.

Apple Watch: magical (and my favorite Apple product ever)
Apple Pencil/iPad: magical
AirPods: magical
AirPods Max: super magical
iPhone: still magical

 

[aevan]

At the end of the day, they make good products. We are in an iterative period, not just Apple, but at every major tech company.

Yup. The article is just bad, probably intentionally written like this to stir discussion and get views.

 

[aevan]

Apple Watch: magical (and my favorite Apple product ever)
Apple Pencil: magical
AirPods: magical
AirPods Max: super magical
iPhone: still magical

Agree on all of the above (but my favorite product is probably the Apple Pencil). Also - M1 Macs - magical.

 

[AbhiAchShan]

There are too many articles that predicts the death of Apple, and this one use the same narrative as the others. This article address some legit concerns and critics about the company's practices in the past few years, but in my opinion, it glorifies too much the Jobs era. Apple is certainly driven by profits in 2022, but so was it ten or twenty years ago. Jobs was just better to sell products and gave a more human and inspirational approach than Cook, but he was also driven by profits.

Regarding innovation, I don't think it's fair to pretend that Apple is not innovating anymore. Jobs died in a period where there was still a lot of room for improvements in the iPhone lineup. I'm not sure that he would have done much better with a mature product like the iPhone in 2022. In the Cook era, we've got Apple Watch, M1 Macs, AirPods, services, we will probably get AR/VR headsets and maybe a car. Apple was rarely the first of anything, there were touch phones before the iPhone. But they've been known to take existing products from the competition and push them way further. That's arguably what they did with all the aforementioned products.

Finally, regarding the departure of Ive, I think that a fair share of people here are happy that Apple give more importance to function over form. Ive was a genius and certainly contributed to Apple's success, but he is also responsable of some of the worst products regarding usability.

Cook is not perfect, far from it. But this narrative where everything was perfect under Jobs and everything will fall under Cook is annoying. He is not as inspirational than Jobs, and yes maybe we are less excited by new products since Jobs is gone. But I think that, for the better and the worst, Cook is less stubborn than Jobs and more sensible to what customers think and want. Under his leadership, we got bigger iPhones, a repair program, public excuses for Apple Maps in iOS 6, the comeback of MagSafe, HDMI, SD on Mac, etc. Not sure we would get any of that under Jobs.

If you see Apple Design Process, Designs are modifiable after testing and ratified by the product management team if it passes certain testings, So You blame Jony Ive for those 'worst' products? Even if we assume that Jony must be blamed, then let me tell you under Jony we got Thicker iPhone 8 to 11 Pro, which were quite thicker than their predecessors, the Larger and most modular Mac Pro etc. I see lot of forums unnecessarily blaming a Designer for Engineering Faults, whereas those who actually don't do much about designs and engineering are not blamed, Butterfly Keyboards were also an engineering 'disaster' by the Engineering Team
The only problem as many say that actually must be told on Jony is the USB C ports, which was implemented quite early than required, as those days USB C accessories were quite rare

 

[mjs916]

It's real simple

They need to boot out the financial "squeeze the lemon for more juice" types and get product people back in there

They need both. You could max out the specs and features on the next iPhone every year and what would that leave the company for next year, or the year after that? I think a mix that favors product people would be ideal but I also have no idea what the composition of the company is today.

“Innovation” is one of the most aggravating words that’s thrown around when discussing Apple. What does it mean? What exactly are people expecting from Apple? Bleeding edge specs that aren’t fully taken advantage of or tech that won’t be around next year because it was a fad? Sometimes Apple *will* innovate (butterfly keyboard, 3D Touch, Magic Mouse, Apple Pencil charging solutions) but to the detriments of their own reputation.

“Iteration” is what they’ve settled into and thrive at. While it is also annoying, it’s more sustainable and that’s why the company is as profitable as it is.

The “wow” factor is largely gone and the convincing/inspiring words of Steve Jobs are only available in replay 😔, but Apple is doing just fine.

My main gripes with the company are:

1) Pricing - most desirable items are WAY overpriced but likely won’t change. They address that with SE and entry level models.

2) Speed - They have no sense of urgency with resolving product issues. They will cling to ideas that aren’t working and generate bad press and upset customers only to reverse course a year and a half later like everyone said they should.

I honestly don’t even know where I was going with this anymore. Just started typing. Happy to be off work and happy it’s Friday.

 

[Zdigital2015]

Interesting article with many good points. As an Apple customer since the first McIntosh, I too feel the magic is gone. Thoughts from the group?

Apple Is Already Dying, And This Process Has a Name

Why Apple’s slow and painful downfall is Steve Jobs’s own fault

alan-12169.medium.com

Yeah, this more like a half-considered gripe list than anything cogent or cohesive. The writer is making suppositions, but where are his facts. He shouldn’t quit his day job.

 

[orionquest]

Meh I didn't read the article, or much of this thread. Apple has been pretty much the same company it always was since almost the beginning. A well marketed computer maker, selling you on "innovation" and using software as a great sales tool.
But Apple today is wildly more success then their previous self.
What will define Apple going forward are the new products they create. The ARM Mac's don't seem like a brand new product just a extension of what exsists. I'm speaking of a brand new product/device/category will be the true test if they still got it without the shadow of Steve Jobs.

 

[turbineseaplane]

.

 

[GMShadow]

They've been like this for a long time. Look at any iPod from the Steve era, for example. I love the way my iPod Classics work, but have fun cracking open the case if you need to make a repair...

I'd even go as far as to claim Steve's Apple would have kept going down the soldering route and defy the Right To Repair stuff with an iron fist, whereas Tim's Apple is starting to concede, to a degree

Pretty much. Steve's ideal computer was the compact Macs, for heavens sake - largely sealed boxes with no expansion.