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From what you said, I don't understand why you didn't just go out and buy an MB ages ago and occasionally glance at the state of the ipad.
1. Cost
2. Portability
3. iOS vs MacOS
4. High School implementing iPad program

In 2014 my school announced a 1:1 learning initiative that would have every student using their own iPad in class beginning the following school year. Knowing this I convinced my parents into buying me a Air 2 that Christmas freshmen year. Using it that year was meh I mean I loved it and was amazed at its power at the time but the giant issue that really hindered my productiveness doing school stuff was the inability to multitask in iOS 8. I bet you can imagine my joy when they announced iOS 9 that summer. The following school year was awesome as my iPad was performing better and was allowing me to really do my day to day work more efficiently then before, things were finally working and I was no longer feeling hindered by my iPad over a Mac or PC. So this past year was really more of the same except I realized that my iPad Air 2 had a rather glaring limitation, that was its screen size and well 2gb of ram. When ever I had a research paper I'd tell myself to start it on my iPad but ultimately end up on my MacBook Pro because when you did Splitview on the 9.7 inch display well you sorta were left with two small windows and Safari didn't like keeping 8-10 tabs open with a big google Doc being edited next to it, it wasn't slow really just the ram was holding it back. Fast forward to today I had been saving and decided to get this new iPad Pro because for the price I couldn't find a better laptop that had better performance and or battery life then this. Another big reason is because Ive used my iPhone and iPad for years now and quite frankly I'm more comfortable with it then with MacOS its the same reason people don't like to switch from say Windows to MacOS. Not only that but with the Pencil I can eliminate having a bunch of notebooks for my classes. The iPad is simply the best for what I'm doing with a computer wether I'm home or at school. iOS 11 only furthers that not to mention the incredible performance leap of the A10X.
 
It's great for users that Affinity Photo is available now, along with Procreate and whatnot. But what developers see are apps that cost at most $50 replacing ones that used to cost $400. And those are the cream of the crop pro apps. Anything else and you still run into users who balk at spending even a solitary dollar on an app. When developers see this they think to themselves "Well crap, how am I going to make a living on an app that costs $1 when my potential market is fairly narrow?"

Isn’t that the case with much of the economy?
Uber, the gig-economy, people that aren’t unemployed because they aren’t looking anymore but just do the odd job and stay off the radar?

More on topic, there are many great (pro) apps (for ridiculous low prices.) But it’s the user that often needs to reinvent it’s workflow and that is a difficult thing for many.
 
1. Cost
2. Portability
3. iOS vs MacOS
4. High School implementing iPad program

In 2014 my school announced a 1:1 learning initiative that would have every student using their own iPad in class beginning the following school year. Knowing this I convinced my parents into buying me a Air 2 that Christmas freshmen year. Using it that year was meh I mean I loved it and was amazed at its power at the time but the giant issue that really hindered my productiveness doing school stuff was the inability to multitask in iOS 8. I bet you can imagine my joy when they announced iOS 9 that summer. The following school year was awesome as my iPad was performing better and was allowing me to really do my day to day work more efficiently then before, things were finally working and I was no longer feeling hindered by my iPad over a Mac or PC. So this past year was really more of the same except I realized that my iPad Air 2 had a rather glaring limitation, that was its screen size and well 2gb of ram. When ever I had a research paper I'd tell myself to start it on my iPad but ultimately end up on my MacBook Pro because when you did Splitview on the 9.7 inch display well you sorta were left with two small windows and Safari didn't like keeping 8-10 tabs open with a big google Doc being edited next to it, it wasn't slow really just the ram was holding it back. Fast forward to today I had been saving and decided to get this new iPad Pro because for the price I couldn't find a better laptop that had better performance and or battery life then this. Another big reason is because Ive used my iPhone and iPad for years now and quite frankly I'm more comfortable with it then with MacOS its the same reason people don't like to switch from say Windows to MacOS. Not only that but with the Pencil I can eliminate having a bunch of notebooks for my classes. The iPad is simply the best for what I'm doing with a computer wether I'm home or at school. iOS 11 only furthers that not to mention the incredible performance leap of the A10X.

What kind of apps do you use in school?

I’ve been the same, except that my university doesn’t do iPad only, it’s pure and simple BYOD and if you want to do it with a 1998 Toshiba laptop, go ahead.
But since November 2015 when the first 12.9 came out i’ve been going iPad only.
Took me three days in December to completely switch, but it’s been so much fun ever since, the minimalistic feeling iOS (and that’s not a bad thing in my book, it’s tinkerfree, much more concentrated on the task at hand), the
I now have 2 maxed out iPads (12.9 and 10.5) for the price of one decent MacBook Pro.
 
What kind of apps do you use in school?

I’ve been the same, except that my university doesn’t do iPad only, it’s pure and simple BYOD and if you want to do it with a 1998 Toshiba laptop, go ahead.
But since November 2015 when the first 12.9 came out i’ve been going iPad only.
Took me three days in December to completely switch, but it’s been so much fun ever since, the minimalistic feeling iOS (and that’s not a bad thing in my book, it’s tinkerfree, much more concentrated on the task at hand), the
I now have 2 maxed out iPads (12.9 and 10.5) for the price of one decent MacBook Pro.
Apps I use Notability, Canvas, Google Docs, Slides, Sheets. Oh iBooks too, this fall I'm going to try and see if iOS 11 notes can replace the need for Notability since Notes is gaining searchable handwriting, PDF scanning, and lined paper, it checks all my boxes. Those are really the main apps though other then Safari really. Oh the turn it in app is really nice, allows me to submit papers easily from iPad.
 
The future is unclear, the platform is in decline as shown by the sales numbers.
I have a new 10.5 pro and i cant say I'm impressed or other wise with the device, it's just "Meh" and i cant see anything that 11 has to get excited about if I'm honest.
 
The future is unclear, the platform is in decline as shown by the sales numbers.
I have a new 10.5 pro and i cant say I'm impressed or other wise with the device, it's just "Meh" and i cant see anything that 11 has to get excited about if I'm honest.
Good lord, you aren’t easy to please, isn’t it?!

Funny btw, platform is in decline because sales numbers are? IMHO Apple is spending lots of time and effort in making the most beautiful tablet on the market, with the best ecosystem and with a still improving iOS. 11 is really nice and I write this on my 10.5 with 11db2
Sales is slowing down, they are still selling lots of them btw, but that doesn’t make the platform in decline.
 
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Good lord, you aren’t easy to please, isn’t it?!

Funny btw, platform is in decline because sales numbers are? IMHO Apple is spending lots of time and effort in making the most beautiful tablet on the market, with the best ecosystem and with a still improving iOS. 11 is really nice and I write this on my 10.5 with 11db2
Sales is slowing down, they are still selling lots of them btw, but that doesn’t make the platform in decline.

Dang, I don’t hang on the iOS 11 forum much so I did not know that db2 is available. Glad you mentioned it.
 
One is glad to be of service :D
It was on the front page as well, i had to do it via iTunes, ota didn’t want to work.
 
Good lord, you aren’t easy to please, isn’t it?!

Funny btw, platform is in decline because sales numbers are? IMHO Apple is spending lots of time and effort in making the most beautiful tablet on the market, with the best ecosystem and with a still improving iOS. 11 is really nice and I write this on my 10.5 with 11db2
Sales is slowing down, they are still selling lots of them btw, but that doesn’t make the platform in decline.
Exactly it's the same thing with the Macs, sales dont mean much with Apple because their profit margins are huge, so unless the iPad is actually not selling like the iPod Classic or the iPod Touch, its going to continue to be a huge focus for Apple.
 
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Good lord, you aren’t easy to please, isn’t it?!

Funny btw, platform is in decline because sales numbers are? IMHO Apple is spending lots of time and effort in making the most beautiful tablet on the market, with the best ecosystem and with a still improving iOS. 11 is really nice and I write this on my 10.5 with 11db2
Sales is slowing down, they are still selling lots of them btw, but that doesn’t make the platform in decline.

Sales have declined for 12 qtrs straight according to apple... not sure how its not a decline.
I'm not convinced they are spending much time on the tablet at all - it's fair to say iOS 11 has a "few" tablet features but that stands out more because we've not seen "any" for a while previously. iOS is all about the phone, tablets seem to be a sideline.

We can't judge if 11 is or is not an improvement as its not GA yet, so thats still to be determined.
Mac sales were slightly up, but I'm not sure of the link you are drawing between the two...! How do mac sales impact iPads?
 
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Sales have declined for 12 qtrs straight according to apple... not sure how its not a decline.
I'm not convinced they are spending much time on the tablet at all - it's fair to say iOS 11 has a "few" tablet features but that stands out more because we've not seen "any" for a while previously. iOS is all about the phone, tablets seem to be a sideline.

We can't judge if 11 is or is not an improvement as its not GA yet, so thats still to be determined.
Mac sales were slightly up, but I'm not sure of the link you are drawing between the two...! How do mac sales impact iPads?
A few tablet features? I think you're on a different planet than everyone else. Apple isn't being hyperbolic when they say this is the biggest update for iPad ever, it really is. What would it take for you to consider an update to have a lot of tablet features?
 
Yes they were...!

Appstore, applies to all iOS devices.
Control Center, all again
New Message - all again
Siri - all again
Camera/photos - all again
Maps/nav - all again
Music - all again
Apple pay - all again

Ipad - Multi-tasking/drag drop? Meh.
Dock - you have to be kidding me!!!!!
Fileapp - i dont see how its any different to the other offerings like dropbox. But to be seen i guess.

Did i miss something?
 
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939c37e2a2db563b4d23bd3222b8401e.png


Very late to the party but I’m so glad iOS 11 has brought life to the iPad. I love how the multitasking works on iOS 11! That, and the new dock.




Edit: wasn’t there a way to have two apps open PLUS having a video play down on the bottom? Trying to play a YouTube video plus have two apps open side by side... I’ve seen it happen, just can’t remember how to do it.
 
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For casual users, the iPad Pro can be a laptop replacement.

I won't disagree, but sales figures are not lining up with that assessment. While I do love my iPad Pro, Apple has not yet figured out how to turn around the sales.

Sales figures don't include the new iPad Pros.
 
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Sales figures don't include the new iPad Pros.
Nope, but then when the first gen iPad Pro was rolled out, people had expected to see things turn around, and it didn't. FWIW, I was one of those people, I really thought Apple had a great product and iPad sales would increase not continue to decrease :cool:
 
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But could be more brighter? i mean the brightness!?

600 Nits if brightness is the current standard for both the 10.5/12.9 iPad Pro. For example, the 2015 12.9 Pro was 424 Nits of brightness and now it's been increased to 600. That's a fairly large leap to where it was previously and I have not read one complaint about the display brightness on the new iPad Pro's.
 
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Nope, but then when the first gen iPad Pro was rolled out, people had expected to see things turn around, and it didn't. FWIW, I was one of those people, I really thought Apple had a great product and iPad sales would increase not continue to decrease :cool:

I didn't expect the first iPad pros to change sales because the OS didn't change.

With iOS11, that may reverse sales, but we can't definitively say because sales don't include the new models yet.
 
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This fall with iOS 11 we are going to see both iOS and apps become more Mac like then they've been in the past. I couldnt be more excited for apps releasing on the AppStore, bewteeen Affinity Photo and Designer, to a new vector graphics app "Vectornator Pro". These are probably the first of many apps releasing with the full feature set of their Mac and Windows siblings and in iOS 11 it's only going to improve. These developers have already stated they have huge things planned for iOS 11 this fall. I couldn't be more excited for the future of iPad Pro and it's endless possibilities. :apple:

I'm from the Vectornator team and truly can't wait to show you what our 1.2 version will be like!

@gobikerider Can you get in touch with us? We'd love to send you the beta and give you a little early sneak peek :)
 
Apple does not break down iPad sales by model, they just announce sales of ALL iPads collectively.

Therefore, we don't know for sure how iPad Pro sales are. However, since Apple has announced the the average sales price for an iPad has increased, we can guess that iPad Pro has something to do with that.

However, if we look at the Android tablet market where there is more transparency in sales figures, we can see that small tablets are taking the largest hit. I'll assume that in general, large phones have cannibalized small tablets (including the iPad mini). This could explain why Apple hasn't really been updating the iPad mini, and why Microsoft never bothered to release a small Surface tablet.

So my question would be, how are iPad Pro sales, excluding the other models? That can help us glimpse at the future the iPad.
 
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Apple does not break down iPad sales by model, they just announce sales of ALL iPads collectively.

Therefore, we don't know for sure how iPad Pro sales are. However, since Apple has announced the the average sales price for an iPad has increased, we can guess that iPad Pro has something to do with that.

However, if we look at the Android tablet market where there is more transparency in sales figures, we can see that small tablets are taking the largest hit. I'll assume that in general, large phones have cannibalized small tablets (including the iPad mini). This could explain why Apple hasn't really been updating the iPad mini, and why Microsoft never bothered to release a small Surface tablet.

So my question would be, how are iPad Pro sales, excluding the other models? That can help us glimpse at the future the iPad.
Eventually mini sales will bottom out, and there will be a clearer picture. Larger models have continued to sell well.
 
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Right now they do not have an iPad mini in the lineup except for the 128gb version which seems like a placeholder product. So you will see what the real state of the iPad is for the next three quarters.

I am not seeing the app economy problem for the iPad though. Apps are moving to a services-subscription model for professional users like Office 365 and Adobe Creative Suite and these subscriptions buys you access to apps accross multiple platforms.

Cloud apps like Salesforce, Mailchimp, etc, has iPad apps,without necessarily charging you upfront payment in the App Store. Who know how well they are doing? The Omni group is also moving to subscription structure to. This transition is happening regardless of the platform.

The riddle of the App Store economy will come from indie app developers that depend on App Store sales. But as long as the sales of the Pro do not decline to a single digit millions a year, there will be an addressable market of apps for it.

The whole software industry is changing.
 
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A lot of very interesting comments and ideas in this thread. Thought I'd share my opinion which counts for very little :)

Sorry it's long.



I agree to an extent, but perhaps not for the same reasons. I don't think even Apple had a full grasp on the iPad's purpose when they introduced it. It was to serve as the "in between" from phone to computer. Lets face it, although there was a mention of Apple's very niche iWork suite (and a very gimped on at that) productivity was not the main focus. It was music and videos and tons of internet. The marketing remained so for years as sale blew up because it was fresh and new. It was futuristic to use "a piece of glass."

Gradually though users began to to grow accustom to larger phones and on the go devices. Phones and laptops handled the media consumption and the iPad segment began to get squeezed out. Also the high cost of the device eventually caught up with it.

Sure, there were many stories of individuals who created (sometimes elaborate) workarounds to make it a productivity device, but that's not what it was intended for. Once Apple realized this and saw the declining sales they needed a new marketing angle. People just weren't going to pay $500+ dollars to a media device. This is why the new "general media use" iPad starts at $379. Apple is trying to reach the old media audience and entice them with a device better than their phones and still cheap. Then Apple chased the new market with the iPad Pro. You say "they are grudgingly taking baby steps." I want to argue this, but I'm not sure I can. Split view was a given for the Pro, but why wait so long for the iOS 11 features. Yes, they're nice, but not revolutionary. I do agree that they were hoping the new accessories and split view would be mostly enough, but realized they had to push forward.

Apple really only has themselves to blame. They marketed the iPad for so long as one type of device and now trying to shoehorn it into another category that I don't think it was ever intended to be in. I think this relates to the App Store problem below.


Main Point:
I disagree that this shift is mostly from a readjustment - though I think that's part of it. I think Apple is just retroactively responding to the market. I also disagree a bit with the thinking that Apple knows and is okay with (in a sense) the declining sales. I think Apple wants to continue to sell more and more. Also, if Apple is to be believe when they say that iPad is future of computing then they'll want to sell that much more to make sure the next generation is brought up on the iPad. You can change the computing world over night, it has to be gradual.

I think Apple is responding to waning iPad interest by trying to push it into a new category. I agree that they're holding back, but I don't think it's because they don't know what to do or even because they don't want to undercut Mac sales (they do get higher margins, but iPad's are approaching Mac-pricing and they've shown they're not afraid to undercut their own products with new ones), I think the iPad is still haunted by the old method of thinking: a dead simple device where the user interacts solely with content. Apple is afraid to mess with the underlying foundation of iPad. It almost necessities an iPad Pro-OS where Apple can keep the old ideals on the lower end media devices and embrace a new dynamic on the "Pros," but that would be confusing and cause fragmentation. They are going through growing pains. However, I do think they are trying to do as little as possible to mess with the formula, but not for MacBook sales, but to preserve what is *iPad* in their eyes.

_______________



I agree with you. I don't think Apple wants to see anything other than increases. I also think the entire Pro focus is a retroactive response to push the iPad into a new market. Had the media-focused consumption iPad that Steve sold in 2010 continued selling in record numbers through 2016, I don't think there would be an iPad Pro.

__________________



I think this is one of the biggest issues. Why do people buy certain game consoles or Macs vs PCs? It's the software - the games available, the special applications and tools. Mac's have had amazing tools and some really good exclusive apps. And some apps, like adobe, are cross-platform so users can choose the OS they like the best. If a Mac could only run Apple's current selection of apps I think it would have all but died. The same goes for iPad. Apple marketed this device as a mobile consumption app. They aligned it more closely with the iPhone than the Mac so it got the mobile treatment. It was a race to the bottom with flashy purchases.

Now Apple is trying to push he iPad toward the Mac-line but it can't shake off the repercussions of the past. The App Store still reflect the old mobile world of iPhone apps. There are amazing applications, but when you see a see of FREE or $0.99 apps that $9.99, $19.99, or God-forbit $49.99 app will seem horrendous. Sure, some "pro" users like are on this forum will gladly pay it, but a few hundred $20-$30 purchases (even a few thousand) cannot run a company.

Developers also share some blame. Many big-name apps were brought to iPad at a time where iOS an the hardware just couldn't run them so they released stripped down mobile apps. Developers need to show a full "no shortcuts" application with full functionality if they want users to pay $50, $100, or even $400. I would never pay $400 or even $100 for an iPad app because they always seem to have gimped functionality. If that perception and fact can change, who knows.


100% THIS!!!! :D:D
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I think Apple are aware the falling sales are probably because, well, for example, I'm typing on a 3 year old iPad Air 2. I have no need to buy a new Pro (yet). But if they impress me enough I'll be on a Pro by the end of the year.


I think the iPad Pro 10.5 is definitely a fantastic tablet and the best iPad available today especially the very very ridiculously powerful A10X chip and that 120Hz ProMotion technology in the screen/display and more and judging by the reviews and users it is is a beast of a tablet and IOS 11 will definitely make the iPad Pro 10.5 even better.

But since I have a iPad Air 2 which I owned for nearly 2 years now and still in very good condition and runs very well and the battery life is still fantastic and the things that I use it for are really pretty casual like web browsing, video watching and playing games, and set it and the iPad Air 2 is still very powerful and fast enough and still great for those type of things that I use my iPad Air 2 for. :D

I would love to upgrade to the new iPad Pro 10.5 but at the moment and I am definitely very happy with using my iPad Air 2 for another year or 2 before upgrading to a way newer and much more better iPad Pro 10.5 model in the future. :)
 
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