The iMac condensation problem is obviously quite real....

[emw]

You have absolutely NO IDEA what conditions apply here.

Yet you're still able to argue that this is definitely a problem, based on a few isolated cases with limited understanding of the conditions?

I'm simply stating that condensation only occurs under given environmental circumstances. To maintain that a computer is at room temperature, that the air is not overly "moist" (or non-condensing, as outlined in the operating specs), and that condensation is still forming seems unreasonable at best.

I feel for the people with this problem, but question whether or not this is purely a design flaw on the part of Apple.

 

[Kuska]

This is the key point that keeps getting overlooked!

To the original poster here (assuming you are not just an alt of the same ranting person from the closed thread), you should be aware that you will likely never have a problem with condensation on an iMac.

A very, very small number of machines experienced this problem when they were first opened and turned on. However, it goes away the minute the machine has sufficiently warmed up. I have yet to hear of any machine that had the problem any longer than it took for the warmth of the machine to disperse or evaporate that tiny bit of moisture for the first time.

iMacs, (like any computers) are very warm and very dry inside. The very fact that the person ranting in the post about this happening to him said that the problem re-occurred quite a while *after* it had evaporated for the first time, tells you he is most likely just lying or exaggerating.

It's not possible for the condensation to collect for a second time unless there is a source of moisture in the house where the computer is. For instance if you have a ton of house plants, or fish-tanks, you could have a high enough humidity in your house for this to happen a second time. But if you have a high enough humidity in your house for this to happen a second time, then two things are also true:

1) you are destroying much more than just your computer visuals by having that humidity in your house. Probably your clothes and furniture are slowly rotting and full of bugs and microbes as well.

2) you are not operating the computer within the temperature and humidity range that you are supposed to as per the instructions on the box.

In any case, there is really nothing to fear about moisture problems in an iMac if you are thinking of purchasing one, and the problems raised by that person on the other thread are almost certainly their own fault.

SPOT ON - as I said I only returned my original machines because:

a) Condensation was unexpected
b) I didn't fully understand the reason it had happened.

In hindsight I probably wasted time and money (for someone along the line) with all the returns and should have kept the original machine.

 

[Kuska]

Thats quite bad

Hope this doesn't happen to mine *touch wood*

That second link was a photoshop fake. The other images however were real.

 

[skunk]

Again, you have no idea - nor do I - how many machines are affected. The fact remains that it does happen (read the Apple Discussions snippet I posted) and not only on first turning on the machine. No fresh air should be able to get between the glass and the screen. The seal should prevent it. Period. If it did, this would not happen. Just as, on the cube - of which I do have one - the machine should not have had a design weakness whereby the poor seal on the on/off switch allowed warm air from the processor to activate the on/off/sleep function. Another design weakness. Apple need to acknowledge the issue and perhaps provide a simple, upgraded sealing solution to cure it. Denying the problem exists, or blaming the user, is unhelpful in this regard.

 

[Kuska]

I guess it would help if Apple at least acknowledged that some condensation could form once at initial startup due to the general cool shipping temperatures and the aluminum / glass construction. My understanding is that the glass panel is only attached magnetically so will never have an airtight seal.

If you had an expectation on purchase that it COULD happen initially and that it would not cause damage then we would probably all feel a little different. Lots of products have an initial period of run in - My Audi took 11,000 miles before it felt properly run in !! - and I was told to expect that !

 

[brake buster]

maybe these ' faulty ' machines got condensation at first power up, as as a result , have never fully dried out inside, because of the ' seals '

this will show as the internal temp rises along with the condensing moisture content, compared to the air/moisture content outside the machine,

take the case apart, let it dry naturally in the environment it is to be used in and it should not happen again once put back together..

just my thoughts

BB

 

[Consultant]

Ok, for those tools whose GOAL IS TO make this SEEM AS IF this is a specific issue that happens only for a specific computer made by a specific company.

From HP web site:

Condensation can occur if an HP Photosmart digital camera is subjected to sharp temperature changes, which can create sufficient condensation to cause damage. To alleviate these conditions when in a cold outdoor environment, the camera should be carried close to your person.
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/fastFaqLiteDocument?lc=en&cc=uk&dlc=en&docname=bpy00091


Again, "Condensation can occur if an HP Photosmart digital camera is subjected to sharp temperature changes"
Heck, ALL electronics come with the warning of "avoid sharp temperature changes".

If you think this only happens with a company you despise (but tons of people love with a passion, with more people are switching to everyday, due to genuine merit), why don't you put your favorite HP, DELL or your home built machine in a freezer (to simulate winter temperature), leave it there for a few hours, then take it out of the freezer and back into your room, and see what happens. Stop spreading FUD, you are being used. Enough said.

 

[t0mat0]

any thoughts on getting a cheap or free humidity check or a dehumidifier as a stopgap? Would help if you could quantify it (and also strengthen your argument for a replacement if it was low where you have your computers)

 

[skunk]

You seem determined to ramp up this issue in the forum and spend an inordinate amount of time and effort supporting the ranting "Apple sucks!" person, but for what reason? I can't imagine what your motive is unless you and the ranting poster are friends or possibly even the same person.

Here, you go on and on about the condensation being a design flaw without referencing any actual facts (possibly because they are not on your side).

I don't know the OP from Adam. I just don't like the way he was treated. He may not have been grammatically correct or utterly reasonable, but (a) there is evidently a condensation issue, to judge from the Apple site and Google, and (b) to blame the user is wrong when nobody has any idea of the conditions the machine is being used in. I have had plenty of issues with Apple kit due to poor design (broken wires on my MacBook temperature sensor, chafed wires on my iBook screen (twice), the aforementioned Cube problem, an unusable AEBSn) so I am well aware that they do make mistakes, which can be really annoying, not to say expensive. I do not expect perfection, but I expect to be able to raise genuine issues without being told one is a liar or an idiot.

 

[skunk]

Ok, for those tools whose GOAL IS TO make this SEEM AS IF this is a specific issue that happens only for a specific computer made by a specific company.

There is no need for this kind of offensive post. This is not an HP camera, this is a specific model of iMac computer which appears to have a particular design weakness. As it is a desktop, it is hardly likely to be subject to the kind of extreme temperature variations your quote refers to.

 

[czachorski]

There is no need for this kind of offensive post. This is not an HP camera, this is a specific model of iMac computer which appears to have a particular design weakness. As it is a desktop, it is hardly likely to be subject to the kind of extreme temperature variations your quote refers to.

Skunk, you are talking past each other, and I am surprised you have not noticed, to the point where it has to questioned whether you are doing it on purpose.

Others are speaking about a situation where the machine is cold upon initial delivery and gets condensation on the initial boot. You are describing a situation where the condensation recurs again and again after the computer has been in use for a longer period of days or weeks.

Why don't you separate these issue into two, and see if it makes the discussion more productive. The way you are handling yourself right now, you are just making yourself look like you are hell-bent on being difficult. You're points would be better taken here without that.

 

[brake buster]

There is no need for this kind of offensive post. This is not an HP camera, this is a specific model of iMac computer which appears to have a particular design weakness. As it is a desktop, it is hardly likely to be subject to the kind of extreme temperature variations your quote refers to.

i beg to differ,

it does , the first time it enters a warm humid environment ( your home ) from the delivery vehicle , especially if its very cold outside

the condensation may not disperse for a long time, even after running the unit for several hours,

as an example , i enjoy photography , but had to have my photographic gear stored in the hold on a recent flight, it got cold in there, and when it was unpacked in the warm holiday environment, it condensed inside the lenses, i had to wait several hours for the temperatures to equal out, to get rid of the condense,

it can and does happen

BB

 

[skunk]

Others are speaking about a situation where the machine is cold upon initial delivery and gets condensation on the initial boot. You are describing a situation where the condensation recurs again and again after the computer has been in use for a longer period of days or weeks.

You and others are making assumptions. The machine arrives in a sealed box packed in polystyrene. A poster on the Apple forum even told of leaving it in the room for two days to acclimatise. This is not the issue.

 

[jsw]

Well, then, I'm stupefied has to how the condensation is occurring, especially in one of the pics you linked to:



That one looks like it's being run in a steamy sauna while cold air is blasting on the front glass.

I find it very difficult to believe that a temperature-acclimated iMac is capable of such a temperature differential between one side of the glass and the other as to produce condensation in even rather humid environments.

However, the specs say it should run in 50° to 95° F (10° to 35° C) temps with 5% to 95% noncondensing humidity, so, if the condensation can be replicated in that environment, I'll buy it. But I still am suspicious of these reports, because the science behind it just doesn't seem to hold up. The temperature of the glass has to be below the dew point of the air inside the iMac for condensation to form.

 

[Kuska]

Well, then, I'm stupefied has to how the condensation is occurring, especially in one of the pics you linked to:

View attachment 96468

That one looks like it's being run in a steamy sauna while cold air is blasting on the front glass.

I find it very difficult to believe that a temperature-acclimated iMac is capable of such a temperature differential between one side of the glass and the other as to produce condensation in even rather humid environments.

However, the specs say it should run in 50° to 95° F (10° to 35° C) temps with 5% to 95% noncondensing humidity, so, if the condensation can be replicated in that environment, I'll buy it. But I still am suspicious of these reports, because the science behind it just doesn't seem to hold up. The temperature of the glass has to be below the dew point of the air inside the iMac for condensation to form.

I believe that was the 'fake' image - there were a lot of them posted a while back.

 

[skunk]

I wouldn't be surprised if that one was fake. I just grabbed the first four off Google that I saw. As it mostly seems to be happening in the bottom right of the screen, perhaps there's a peculiarity of the air current from the fan which affects that particular area of the glass.

 

[czachorski]

You and others are making assumptions. The machine arrives in a sealed box packed in polystyrene. A poster on the Apple forum even told of leaving it in the room for two days to acclimatise. This is not the issue.

I am not making any assumptions. My post didn't even contain any commentary about the issues. Just pointing out that there are 2 separate issues, and you and others keep countering each others points with observations about two different issues (talking past each other), and suggesting that you could have a more meaningful discussion if you made an effort not to do that. To me, many of the posts you made looked like you were doing it on purpose just to raise a ruckus. You only diminish your point when you do that, whether intentional or not.

 

[mojohanna]

I really can't believe that you are all seriously suggesting that if the user does not warm his or her computer up before turning it on, then it's their fault they get condensation behind the glass. This is utterly ridiculous. The thing should "just work" straight out of the box, as advertised, every time you turn it on, no ifs, no buts, no absurd excuses. Apple chose to put a piece of glass in front of the screen. Apple should make sure their design decision does not compromise their computer. End of story.

YES, we are suggesting that you can pop it out of the box with out any problems PROVIDING that the machine was not exposed to cold temperatures for extended periods of time prior to you turning the machine on. Let me state it more clearly. This is only a one time thing with iMacs (as they are not "portables") when you first bring them home.

If if recall correctly, this design of the imac came out this summer, correct? Well now, isn't it funny that we just start seeing people rant about this when the weather starts to get cold. HMMM I wonder why?
Look, I never took physics, but it is not that hard to grasp the concept. Warm moist air will condense on a cold surface. I guess you have never had a cold drink on july 4th and wondered why there is a puddle of water under your drink?

GET OVER IT, IT IS NOT A DESIGN FLAW. For those of you who say this should be a sealed system. Let's see how long the components last when there is no air circulating over them to cool them off. Quit looking for problems where there ARE NO PROBLEMS!!!!!

 

[Kuska]

I wouldn't be surprised if that one was fake. I just grabbed the first four off Google that I saw. As it mostly seems to be happening in the bottom right of the screen, perhaps there's a peculiarity of the air current from the fan which affects that particular area of the glass.

I believe this was too - it's amazing the lengths people go to - however I believe this one had some humour behind it !

http://homepage.mac.com/hallvalla/links/imac2.jpg

 

[mojohanna]

Enough of this patronising twaddle. I understand the principle of condensation as well as anyone else, but it should not apply here. You should be able to expect to walk into your room, turn on or wake up your computer, be it a desktop or a laptop, and get to work. The design should be able to cope with anything within the specified environmental requirements. If it can't, it's a weak piece of design.

So I guess Apple should suspend the laws of physics and science? If your are not already there, go back to 8th grade and spend a little more time paying attention in science class.

 

[skunk]

So I guess Apple should suspend the laws of physics and science? If your are not already there, go back to 8th grade and spend a little more time paying attention in science class.

Unnecessary rudeness. Behave.

 

[jsw]

Quit looking for problems where there ARE NO PROBLEMS!!!!!

As skunk says, no need to be rude.

I'm not trying to say there isn't a problem, just that what's been posted hasn't shown me a way for it to exist outside of improperly using a too-cold-from-the-outside iMac before it has warmed up.

I don't claim to be all-knowing. However, when something appears to be an issue but has no explanation I can see, and when the main proponents of it being a problem often seem to prefer poor grammar and excessive capitalization, I'm not inclined to believe it's an actual issue.

Maybe it is. But what I'm seeing looks a lot like using a too-cold system before it's acclimated, and I don't see how it occurs in room-temp iMacs. I grant that I could easily be missing something, but I'm hoping someone can post a mechanism for such condensation to occur.

 

[skunk]

I'm not trying to say there isn't a problem, just that what's been posted hasn't shown me a way for it to exist outside of improperly using a too-cold-from-the-outside iMac before it has warmed up.

I'll go along with that, but there may be some odd local Venturi effect caused by airflow from a fan.

I grant that I could easily be missing something, but I'm hoping someone can post a mechanism for such condensation to occur.

I'll go along with that, too.

 

[czachorski]

I'll go along with that. I see no reason for it to happen other than possibly a Venturi tube effect artificially dropping the temperature locally in that corner due to air being sucked or blown through a small gap. I'll admit this is a wild guess... I'll go along with that, too.

Ahh - venturi effect - reminded me of Bernoulli's effect. If there is a local area of higher velocity, the pressure of the air in that area would drop. It's been a while since thermodynamics in engin school, but doesn't lowering the pressure of air result in a lower capacity for moisture, and perhaps produce condensation? If so, could some machines have a defect whereby there is a small area of unusually high velocity air making it's way near the glass?

 

[jsw]

Geez, as a long-ago aeronautical engineering student, you had me at hello Venturi. I suppose we should kiss and make up now.