iPad The iPad is not for traditional Mac users

[theotherphil]

This is what MacOS will look like on a 12.9" iPP (courtesy of sidecar). As you can see, real estate is low and ui elements are comically small leading to a poor touch experience.

There is zero way Apple are going to compromise good user experience....it's just not what they do.

 

[DeepIn2U]

There has recently been a lot of conversation among tech circles, here and on social media, about the iPad in and it's current state. Apple has practiced restraint and kept the iPad as simple to use as long as possible and tried to keep it a a separate product from the Mac.

Out of curiosity, I checked iPad commercials on YouTube and Apple's website to see how Apple themselves see the iPad and how they envision people using them. They have honed in and focused on note taking and drawing with the Apple Pencil as the core features and they're are all over the marketing material. It's the same situation with the Apple Watch: fitness and notifications.

Every year people are exited and hopeful that the next iPadOS version will make the iPad more Mac-like but aren't they setting themselves up for disappointment? The iPad and Mac bring in around the same revenue for Apple so their current strategy with the iPad is working. Anecdotally I have seen a ton of iPads all over high schools and colleges. There are a lot of happy iPad users.

Honestly I think you and many others completely miss the target reason for iPads creation.
Some will always first point to Steve Jobs’ announcement, and although true, one must also recall Jobs’ was recently in the hospital for his cancer treatment (1st round) during the iPads’ full on developmental and testing stage - even a laptop in weakened condition would not work nor would a laptop on stage being held by Jobs at announcement day, he was physically drained but mentally strong!

What you and everyone else in this thread should look at and take notes is this:

1987, remember this is 1987, don’t focus on the “design” or the hardware, just the use case and ideas. Now add updated tech and Apple Pencil 2 and what the iPad brings to artists or students and you fully get this is a computing device but NOT a computer (terrible apple ad but sparked conversation, just failed on delivering that conversation).

 

[orionquest]

I think netbooks disappeared because they sucked - I had (still have, actually) a Samsung netbook. Grossly underpowered and incredibly sluggish, it wasn't good for doing much of anything; even the simplest tasks were a drag on it.

Nah netbooks were awesome. Had and still have a Asus netbook wonderful machine. I used it extensively for travel back in the day, before ipads, laptop with 10 hour battery nice. Even used it to shoot photos at events tethered to the camera.
But Macbook Air was much better, which I eventually upgraded to.

 

[MBX]

This is what MacOS will look like on a 12.9" iPP (courtesy of sidecar). As you can see, real estate is low and ui elements are comically small leading to a poor touch experience.

View attachment 1997611

There is zero way Apple are going to compromise good user experience....it's just not what they do.

Those who want a dual boot with MacOS on an iPad Pro don't really expect it to be available with touch.

We'd need a keyboard (smart or magic or traditional one) plus a trackpad or mouse connected.

The touch inputs would only work on iPadOS.

Anyway, I don't think Apple will give us a dual boot. But maybe some hybrid version.

 

[darngooddesign]

Those who want a dual boot with MacOS on an iPad Pro don't really expect it to be available with touch.

We'd need a keyboard (smart or magic or traditional one) plus a trackpad or mouse connected.

The touch inputs would only work on iPadOS.

Anyway, I don't think Apple will give us a dual boot. But maybe some hybrid version.

Here is a realistic example.

You delivered a project to the client, and are way from home with your iPad. You decided to leave your magic keyboard at home because its heavy and bulky and are just using a regular case or folio. You receive some last minute changes but are unable to make them because you don't have a keyboard and/or mouse; so instead of being able to use your iPad as a lightweight on-the-go computer you have to interrupt what you are doing and go home to where your regular computer also is.

That's why no touch support is bad.

 

[Snowlover]

I agree with Digitalguy. There’s absolutely nothing good about the limitations we have now. I understand Apple wanting to make it easier for grandma, and they could continue doing that. But that doesn’t mean that they can’t have a setting to change to allow us power users to do things differently.

I’ve been in that exact situation where I wanted to use a file from one program in a different one and there was simply no way to do it. It’s 2022 and these tablets are super powerful, there’s no excuse why you can’t do something so basic.

This is why I use android. I have never liked the app centered approach. I think it works well if you only use one app for a particular type of file and never have to share with another app.

 

[orionquest]

Here is a realistic example.

You delivered a project to the client, and are way from home with your iPad. You decided to leave your magic keyboard at home because its heavy and bulky and are just using a regular case or folio. You receive some last minute changes but are unable to make them because you don't have a keyboard and/or mouse; so instead of being able to use your iPad as a lightweight on-the-go computer you have to interrupt what you are doing and go home to where your regular computer also is.

That's why no touch support is bad.

That's not really why touch support is bad. Not a great example.
Would you have the working files available, could you even edit the files on ipad, would you be able to even concentrate on editing files in the middle of whatever you were doing. yadda yadda.

Email client/whomever, I'll have that to you in the morning..

 

[darngooddesign]

That's not really why touch support is bad. Not a great example.

That is why no-touch-support is bad.

Would you have the working files available,

Yes. They would be accessible via cloud.

could you even edit the files on ipad,

I responding to someone who said suggest dual boot into MacOS, so yes I could edit using MacOS apps on the MacOS on iPad.

would you be able to even concentrate on editing files in the middle of whatever you were doing. yadda yadda.

You might not be able to but I can.

Email client/whomever, I'll have that to you in the morning..

Unrealistic in the face of an immediate deadline.

 

[Digitalguy]

That's not really why touch support is bad. Not a great example.
Would you have the working files available, could you even edit the files on ipad, would you be able to even concentrate on editing files in the middle of whatever you were doing. yadda yadda.

Email client/whomever, I'll have that to you in the morning..

if you look at his posts he is just trying to find the most absurd examples to make his point that MacOS should never be offered as an option on iPad (be it with touch, without touch, in dual boot, virtualized, whatever....) and whatever you reply he is going to distort/exaggerate the reality in some way to fit his narrative... I have long stopped replying because of this, I have better uses of my time... ?

 

[orionquest]

if you look at his posts he is just trying to find the most absurd examples to make his point that MacOS should never be offered as an option on iPad (be it with touch, without touch, in dual boot, virtualized, whatever....) and whatever you reply he is going to distort/exaggerate the reality in some way to fit his narrative... I have long stopped replying because of this, I have better uses of my time... ?

Thanks for the heads up! ?
(might reply for $$hits and giggles)

 

[orionquest]

Unrealistic in the face of an immediate deadline.

Then stay the F in the office instead of fooling around if it's that important and you know this.
Also if you need this kind of flexiblity, be prepared for it, have the correct device with you and make dam sure you can do the work. It's not the ipad's fault YOU made the mistake.
Tech is not always the solution, some common sense is.

 

[theotherphil]

Those who want a dual boot with MacOS on an iPad Pro don't really expect it to be available with touch.

We'd need a keyboard (smart or magic or traditional one) plus a trackpad or mouse connected.

The touch inputs would only work on iPadOS.

Anyway, I don't think Apple will give us a dual boot. But maybe some hybrid version.

Sounds like what those people need is a MacBook? Having used a hybrid for work, I can tell you it doesn't make a great laptop or a great tablet....it's one big compromise.

 

[subjonas]

Sounds like what those people need is a MacBook? Having used a hybrid for work, I can tell you it doesn't make a great laptop or a great tablet....it's one big compromise.

I understand people wanting more functionality out of their iPads—who wouldn’t want that—but I agree everything comes at a cost, and I think not everyone realizes what those costs are (I sure don’t), and not everyone realizes that not everyone is willing to pay those costs even if they are willing.

What I‘m not sure I understand though is when people say they “need to carry two devices” as an argument why Apple should make a unified device. I need a laptop for work, but I don’t need the iPad. I have an iPad because I want it, and I think most people are the same. There are definitely people who need an iPad (or some kind of tablet form factor), ie. for work, such as field workers who actively walk around while working on their tablet, or people who need to use the Pencil. But it’s probably a relatively small niche. And I’m not sure all the people in Macrumors who claim to ”need” two devices belong to this group. It seems like what a lot of them really mean is they want to carry one device. And of course, who wouldn’t? But “want” doesn’t sound as justified “need”. But regardless of whether it’s due to want or need, Apple will deliver the product if it sees the financial motivation.

 

[Digitalguy]

I understand people wanting more functionality out of their iPads—who wouldn’t want that—but I agree everything comes at a cost, and I think not everyone realizes what those costs are (I sure don’t), and not everyone realizes that not everyone is willing to pay those costs even if they are willing.

What I‘m not sure I understand though is when people say they “need to carry two devices” as an argument why Apple should make a unified device. I need a laptop for work, but I don’t need the iPad. I have an iPad because I want it, and I think most people are the same. There are definitely people who need an iPad (or some kind of tablet form factor), ie. for work, such as field workers who actively walk around while working on their tablet, or people who need to use the Pencil. But it’s probably a relatively small niche. And I’m not sure all the people in Macrumors who claim to ”need” two devices belong to this group. It seems like what a lot of them really mean is they want to carry one device. And of course, who wouldn’t? But “want” doesn’t sound as justified “need”. But regardless of whether it’s due to want or need, Apple will deliver the product if it sees the financial motivation.

To be honest, I wouldn't overthink the use of words... the idea is more like "I need to carry 2 devices if I want to have the benefits of the iPad and those of a laptop", it's not a need in like "I absolutely need to do it otherwise I'll be in trouble..." ?

 

[darngooddesign]

if you look at his posts he is just trying to find the most absurd examples to make his point that MacOS should never be offered as an option on iPad (be it with touch, without touch, in dual boot, virtualized, whatever....) and whatever you reply he is going to distort/exaggerate the reality in some way to fit his narrative... I have long stopped replying because of this, I have better uses of my time... ?

Nonsense. If MacOS is on the iPad it should have touch-support so there is no artificial hardware limit to using it. I doubt Apple would go for dual boot. Probably need a larger iPad too because MacOS is cramped on the 13" one; then again, Apple also had an 11" MBA so maybe they would even though the experience would be subpar.

 

[theotherphil]

I understand people wanting more functionality out of their iPads—who wouldn’t want that—but I agree everything comes at a cost, and I think not everyone realizes what those costs are (I sure don’t), and not everyone realizes that not everyone is willing to pay those costs even if they are willing.

What I‘m not sure I understand though is when people say they “need to carry two devices” as an argument why Apple should make a unified device. I need a laptop for work, but I don’t need the iPad. I have an iPad because I want it, and I think most people are the same. There are definitely people who need an iPad (or some kind of tablet form factor), ie. for work, such as field workers who actively walk around while working on their tablet, or people who need to use the Pencil. But it’s probably a relatively small niche. And I’m not sure all the people in Macrumors who claim to ”need” two devices belong to this group. It seems like what a lot of them really mean is they want to carry one device. And of course, who wouldn’t? But “want” doesn’t sound as justified “need”. But regardless of whether it’s due to want or need, Apple will deliver the product if it sees the financial motivation.

Indeed....and Apple have said multiple times that they are happy for one of their product lines to cannibalise the other. What they don't want is a competitor doing that. Only Apple has the data....how many people want an iPad running MacOS?

All the furore about lack of bootcamp on the M1 Macs you would think everybody used bootcamp. It turns out less than 0.5% of Mac users ever used bootcamp in the first place. That really isn't worth investing time and effort into supporting.

 

[subjonas]

To be honest, I wouldn't overthink the use of words... the idea is more like "I need to carry 2 devices if I want to have the benefits of the iPad and those of a laptop", it's not a need in like "I absolutely need to do it otherwise I'll be in trouble..." ?

I think we all know the first one is the true end of the sentence, but there’s a reason people never really finish that sentence—because it sounds weaker as an argument. There’s not a lot of weight to our words when we say, Apple should do what I want. It sounds much more mature and reasonable when we say, Apple should do what I need. By using “need” and leaving out “want”, it makes Apple sound like they’re doing us much more of a disservice by not coming through.
I just don’t like when people use word games to make their arguments sound more compelling than they are.

 

[subjonas]

Indeed....and Apple have said multiple times that they are happy for one of their product lines to cannibalise the other. What they don't want is a competitor doing that. Only Apple has the data....how many people want an iPad running MacOS?

All the furore about lack of bootcamp on the M1 Macs you would think everybody used bootcamp. It turns out less than 0.5% of Mac users ever used bootcamp in the first place. That really isn't worth investing time and effort into supporting.

Agreed, Apple has the numbers, and I’m sure they’ll act on them when it’s financially compelling enough. I think they’re pretty good at business.
Is that 0.5% number from an actual statistic though?

 

[Digitalguy]

Indeed....and Apple have said multiple times that they are happy for one of their product lines to cannibalise the other. What they don't want is a competitor doing that. Only Apple has the data....how many people want an iPad running MacOS?

All the furore about lack of bootcamp on the M1 Macs you would think everybody used bootcamp. It turns out less than 0.5% of Mac users ever used bootcamp in the first place. That really isn't worth investing time and effort into supporting.

They are happy to cannibalize when they think it will make them more money (iPod to iPhone) or when there are competitor that could take the market....
Currently the only competitor is Windows tablets which, because of all the drawbacks of X86, and for some people also of Windows on touch devices, is not a compatitor they are worried about. Android tablet only offer a mobile OS.
Most people wanting more that iPadOS on the iPad are probably Mac owners... not what Apple is looking for. And selling both iPads and Mac to same people is probably still more profitable than selling somewhat more expensive iPads alone.
And Apple has no numbers, nobody has them, on what would be the results of allowing a high end iPads to run MacOS. It's all guesses, here and anywhere else...
My guess is that unless they manage to make an iPad that is expensive enough to cost more than a MacBook and an iPad pro together (so over $2000 starting price, without accessories like a keyboard etc.), and find a reason to have such an expensive device, for instance with the excuse of a foldable device, they will never put MacOS on any iPad....

 

[jdb8167]

Those who want a dual boot with MacOS on an iPad Pro don't really expect it to be available with touch.

We'd need a keyboard (smart or magic or traditional one) plus a trackpad or mouse connected.

The touch inputs would only work on iPadOS.

Anyway, I don't think Apple will give us a dual boot. But maybe some hybrid version.

If you look at the remote to Mac/PC iPad apps like Jump and Screens, they have a solution for this. An on screen keyboard and the ability to use touch as a trackpad with a mouse cursor.

It’s a lousy experience but you can make it work in a pinch.

 

[suns93]

OP is absolutely correct: anyone that thinks iPadOS will be changed dramatically to be more macOS like are going to be disappointed.

iOS (and iPadOS by extension) is what turned Apple into a multi trillion dollar company. The locked down, curated experience is exactly what they want and how they feel they can deliver the best experience. To make iPadOS more macOS like would be a step backwards in their view.

They’ve recently bashed macOS in court. To then get up on stage and tout how iPad is gaining features you love from macOS - such comments could absolutely be used against them in future trials.

We’re coming up on 15 years worth of many children being raised on iOS/iPadOS - literally daily driving it before long term memories begin to form. It is ingrained in them. Being productive in school and work on iOS will be their preference. They will not be burdened by the constraints iOS imposes compared to macOS because they won’t be aware they exist.

At the end of the day, iOS/iPadOS is far more profitable for Apple than macOS. It also aligns with their view on the best user experience. iPadOS will never become that similar to macOS.

 

[spiderman0616]

OP is absolutely correct: anyone that thinks iPadOS will be changed dramatically to be more macOS like are going to be disappointed.

iOS (and iPadOS by extension) is what turned Apple into a multi trillion dollar company. The locked down, curated experience is exactly what they want and how they feel they can deliver the best experience. To make iPadOS more macOS like would be a step backwards in their view.

They’ve recently bashed macOS in court. To then get up on stage and tout how iPad is gaining features you love from macOS - such comments could absolutely be used against them in future trials.

We’re coming up on 15 years worth of many children being raised on iOS/iPadOS - literally daily driving it before long term memories begin to form. It is ingrained in them. Being productive in school and work on iOS will be their preference. They will not be burdened by the constraints iOS imposes compared to macOS because they won’t be aware they exist.

At the end of the day, iOS/iPadOS is far more profitable for Apple than macOS. It also aligns with their view on the best user experience. iPadOS will never become that similar to macOS.

I used to say this same thing, but I'm not sure how accurate I think this is anymore. My kids were born right as the iPhone and iPad were brand new products. They have both grown up on using touch screen devices like iPad, iPhone, and even iPod touch. I, on the other hand, learned computers on DOS, Windows 3.1, AS400, etc. running on beige box Gateway 2000 PCs and remote terminals in networks.

Two different generations, two different perspectives on what a "computer" is. However, I see as they get older that they have started getting more inquisitive about macOS and Windows. In fact, my teenager saved up for a year and bought himself a gaming PC, and my middle schooler spent his nest egg on an M1 Mac mini and monitor. (The teenager doesn't use the PC for gaming anymore, but he DOES use it for studying and everything else instead of his Chromebook whenever he has the opportunity.)

I feel like as the kids get older and into more complicated school work, they start drifting back toward traditional laptop/desktop computers, then as they move into their careers, they could pretty much veer off in any direction. People in creative professions where they're doing a LOT of art or graphic design all day might be able to do their whole job on an iPad Pro. People who crunch numbers in Excel all day or do 8K movie editing are probably going to buy a MacBook Pro. It doesn't really matter, as long as you pick the right tool for the job you want to do.

 

[jdb8167]

iOS (and iPadOS by extension) is what turned Apple into a multi trillion dollar company. The locked down, curated experience is exactly what they want and how they feel they can deliver the best experience. To make iPadOS more macOS like would be a step backwards in their view.

If you look at yesterday's financial results for Apple the only category that did worse for the last 2 quarters was the iPad. I don't know if that can laid at the feet of iPadOS but my instinct is that is at least part of the problem. With the M1 Macs—especially the M1 MacBook Air—the need for an iPad Pro is greatly lessened.

 

[sparksd]

If you look at yesterday's financial results for Apple the only category that did worse for the last 2 quarters was the iPad. I don't know if that can laid at the feet of iPadOS but my instinct is that is at least part of the problem. With the M1 Macs—especially the M1 MacBook Air—the need for an iPad Pro is greatly lessened.

Or market saturation after those previous quarters. Given the capabilities of the newer iPads over the last few years, I would think that the upgrade impetus would drop off and show in lower revenues.

 

[subjonas]

Currently the only competitor is Windows tablets which, because of all the drawbacks of X86, and for some people also of Windows on touch devices, is not a compatitor they are worried about. Android tablet only offer a mobile OS.

By the way, reminds me, are there any Windows/Android dual boot tablets? I haven’t seen any and I’m curious why.