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Kahnforever

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May 20, 2024
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I’ve owned many iPads over the years, starting with the first one when it launched in 2010. Steve Jobs’ keynote introducing the iPad was a masterclass in product vision, clearly articulating why the iPad existed: it has to excel at tasks over and above the Mac or iPhone, like web browsing and reading books. Jobs also spoke of the need for trucks... even though mobile devices like the iPhone and iPad were appealing, he talked about the need for what he effectively was referring to as the Mac, the equivalent of a truck vs. more efficient cars like the iPhone and iPad.

Over the years, there’s been endless debate about whether the iPad should become more like a Mac with a Mac-like OS or if the Mac should adopt touchscreen capabilities like an iPad. The iPad will never be a Mac, and the Mac will never be an iPad. Each device is designed for a distinct purpose, and these design philosophies are fundamentally different for several reasons:

  1. Form Factor and Screen Size: The iPad’s smaller screen is a consequence of its tablet form factor, meant to be handheld. This inherently limits its productivity compared to larger laptop or desktop screens that can display more information simultaneously.
  2. Input Methods: The iPad is designed around multi-touch input directly on the screen, which is intuitive for certain tasks but lacks the precision of a mouse and keyboard setup: mouse arrows are precise to 1 pixel. Professional tasks often require this level of precision, which is why the Mac’s keyboard and trackpad, with their pixel-level accuracy, remain superior for those needs.
  3. Performance Constraints: The iPad’s CPU and GPU capabilities are constrained by its design as a fanless, battery-operated device. This results in a limited thermal envelope, preventing sustained high performance. In contrast, Macs, especially when plugged in, can utilize more power and better cooling systems, making them capable of handling more demanding professional applications over extended periods. For tasks requiring consistent, high-level performance, such as video editing or software development, the Mac’s design advantages are clear where the iPad will suffer more thermal throttling.
  4. External Display Support: The iPad lacks the ability to drive multiple high-resolution monitors, a feature crucial for many professional workflows. Macs, particularly the MacBook Pro and desktop models, excel in this area, providing significant productivity gains through extensive multi-monitor support. This capability is essential for tasks such as coding, graphic design, and financial trading, where multiple displays enhance efficiency and workflow management.
  5. Mac’s Trackpad vs. Touchscreen: The Mac already incorporates multi-touch through its trackpad, which is more ergonomic and efficient for desktop use than a touchscreen. It's as if people forget about this. Lifting your arms to touch a screen repeatedly is impractical and slower compared to using a trackpad. Additionally, macOS is optimized for precise input, not the broad gestures suited for touchscreens. The mixed success of Windows 8, which attempted to bridge touch and mouse inputs, underscores the challenges of such an approach. Even Steven Sinofsky, the former President of Windows, has acknowledged that this convergence doesn’t work well.
  6. Software Ecosystem and User Experience: The software ecosystems for iPadOS and macOS are tailored to their respective hardware. iPadOS is optimized for touch interactions and mobile apps, excelling in areas like media consumption and lightweight productivity tasks. In contrast, macOS supports a vast array of professional software, offering a desktop-class experience for complex tasks. Attempts to merge these ecosystems risk diluting the strengths of each platform, leading to a compromised user experience.
  7. Ergonomics and Usability: The iPad’s design prioritizes portability and ease of use for casual and on-the-go tasks. It is perfect for scenarios where holding the device in hand or using it in various orientations is beneficial. The Mac, designed for desk use, focuses on ergonomics suitable for prolonged use with peripherals like external keyboards and mice, providing a more comfortable experience for extended work sessions.
In summary, the iPad and Mac are designed for different use cases, and their respective strengths highlight why each device remains distinct. The iPad excels as a portable, touch-based device for casual use and specific professional scenarios, while the Mac remains unparalleled in environments requiring sustained performance, precise input, and extensive multitasking capabilities.

With AI, I think the iPad will become even more appealing to more people, as AI has the power to automate a lot of what we do, even in a professional setting, making manual input less needed. But regardless, we will still need the "trucks", as Jobs said, so Macs aren't going anywhere anytime soon. But a truck is not a car, it isn't trying to be, and it will never be.
 

fw85

macrumors regular
Jun 22, 2023
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You do have valid points and while I agree that we shouldn't try to shoehorn macOS onto the iPad as is, a lot of the limitations you described are artificially imposed by Apple, rather than a limitation of what the hardware could do. And no wonder that rubs people the wrong way.

1. Stage Manager was implemented as a way of alleviating this issue in scenarios where more screen estate is needed - however, the way it was (and still is) implemented is rather lackluster and buggy. That's on Apple, not on the iPad.
2. iPadOS is (and should) remain a touch-first OS, but since it does support keyboards, trackpads and mice through means of official accessory, there's no reason why it shouldn't be able to do so with a precision to 1 pixel. Instead, it has this clunky circular cursor thingy that is deliberately bad at being a mouse cursor with no real advantages. That's on Apple, not on the iPad.
3. The latest M4 incarnation of iPad is plenty powerful even in a passively cooled, thin form factor. So much so, in fact, that it outperforms about half the current Mac lineup in raw performance. Yes, even in sustained tasks. It's that good. It gives the M3 Pro a run for its money. The passive cooling is much improved as well, with graphene sheets for heat dissipation and the Apple logo made out of copper to serve as a heat pipe. The GPU is in RTX 4060 territory now.
4. The M4 chip is plenty powerful enough to drive multiple external displays, the M3 chip in MB Air was already allowed to drive two displays simultaneously with no issues. Why is the iPad then limited to a single display, with no resolution of refresh rate control (capped at 60hz)? That's on Apple, not the iPad.
5. The same gestures that work on macOS also work on iPadOS when using a trackpad. Additionally, the iPad is really good when disconnected from the trackpad to use handheld - and it should remain that way.
6. App developers could make their iPad apps powerful enough to rival their desktop counterparts, however this is often hindered by limitations of iPadOS - it does not provide enough APIs and freedom to developers to really utilize the device to its full potential. That's on Apple, not the iPad.
7. The iPad can be plugged into a dock in a desktop setting, together with a mouse and keyboard. Then unplugged and immediately transformed into a portable handheld device. Nothing rivals this kind of versatility, but it's again up to Apple to allow us to take full advantage of it.

The year is 2024 and the underlying h/w architectures are basically unified - it should be possible to make a touch-first OS that enables the iPad to be the best-in-class tablet with an intuitive user experience. At the same time, it should be possible to make the OS extensible enough, in a way that fully enables professional workflows - yes, even ones you would normally perform on a traditional PC.
You don't need to ditch iPadOS, you just need to make it better. And that's primarily on Apple to stop neglecting and even artificially limiting it, out of fear that it will cannibalize Mac sales. Because yes, it will and yes, it already does. But the iPad now costs about the same, if not more, than your usual Mac, so that shouldn't be such a pain point.
 

Kahnforever

macrumors regular
Original poster
May 20, 2024
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You do have valid points and while I agree that we shouldn't try to shoehorn macOS onto the iPad as is, a lot of the limitations you described are artificially imposed by Apple, rather than a limitation of what the hardware could do. And no wonder that rubs people the wrong way.

1. Stage Manager was implemented as a way of alleviating this issue in scenarios where more screen estate is needed - however, the way it was (and still is) implemented is rather lackluster and buggy. That's on Apple, not on the iPad.
2. iPadOS is (and should) remain a touch-first OS, but since it does support keyboards, trackpads and mice through means of official accessory, there's no reason why it shouldn't be able to do so with a precision to 1 pixel. Instead, it has this clunky circular cursor thingy that is deliberately bad at being a mouse cursor with no real advantages. That's on Apple, not on the iPad.
3. The latest M4 incarnation of iPad is plenty powerful even in a passively cooled, thin form factor. So much so, in fact, that it outperforms about half the current Mac lineup in raw performance. Yes, even in sustained tasks. It's that good. It gives the M3 Pro a run for its money. The passive cooling is much improved as well, with graphene sheets for heat dissipation and the Apple logo made out of copper to serve as a heat pipe. The GPU is in RTX 4060 territory now.
4. The M4 chip is plenty powerful enough to drive multiple external displays, the M3 chip in MB Air was already allowed to drive two displays simultaneously with no issues. Why is the iPad then limited to a single display, with no resolution of refresh rate control (capped at 60hz)? That's on Apple, not the iPad.
5. The same gestures that work on macOS also work on iPadOS when using a trackpad. Additionally, the iPad is really good when disconnected from the trackpad to use handheld - and it should remain that way.
6. App developers could make their iPad apps powerful enough to rival their desktop counterparts, however this is often hindered by limitations of iPadOS - it does not provide enough APIs and freedom to developers to really utilize the device to its full potential. That's on Apple, not the iPad.
7. The iPad can be plugged into a dock in a desktop setting, together with a mouse and keyboard. Then unplugged and immediately transformed into a portable handheld device. Nothing rivals this kind of versatility, but it's again up to Apple to allow us to take full advantage of it.

The year is 2024 and the underlying h/w architectures are basically unified - it should be possible to make a touch-first OS that enables the iPad to be the best-in-class tablet with an intuitive user experience. At the same time, it should be possible to make the OS extensible enough, in a way that fully enables professional workflows - yes, even ones you would normally perform on a traditional PC.
You don't need to ditch iPadOS, you just need to make it better. And that's primarily on Apple to stop neglecting and even artificially limiting it, out of fear that it will cannibalize Mac sales. Because yes, it will and yes, it already does. But the iPad now costs about the same, if not more, than your usual Mac, so that shouldn't be such a pain point.
Good points. A few comments in reply:

  1. The iPad will forever be stuck as a smaller form factor because it’s a tablet first, meaning its screen will always be smaller than the largest MacBook Pro or large monitors that go with a desktop. This limits productivity. Can the iPad handle multiple large high resolution monitors? Maybe.
  2. The iPad’s small, thin and light form-factor that is designed for just battery use limits its power. I know you mention benchmarks and I’ve seen several for the new M4 in the iPad. Some real world use examples show large drop offs in performance after a period of time because it has to throttle: it doesn’t have the thermal envelope to support sustained large power outputs. There is no solving this. It will never reach the sustained power capability of a MacBook Pro and Mac Studio and Mac Pro with scaled up CPUs and GPUs with a fan design and larger thermal envelopes with the same class chip in them. But the iPad has come a long way and is very powerful. On throttling, the 3D Wild Life Extreme Unlimited benchmark has the iPad Pro M4 at 8749. The Mac Studio M1 scored 29258 (higher is better).
  3. A lot of the limits Apple places on the iPad is because of its tablet first design. If they don’t do this, its battery life would be in the minutes or even mere seconds: less than an hour. Meaning, if you throw a MacOS operating system at it with Mac software it would not run for very long and it would throttle a lot. I’ve seen the iPad get only 2 hours of battery life as it is using “Pro” Apps. And that’s with iOS constantly dumping things from RAM and freezing many background processes. The MacBook Pro can suffer reduced battery life too but it’s running full-blown MacOS without the limitations of the iPad/iPadOS.
  4. I don’t know where Apple takes the iPad from here. But it can’t run a desktop operating system with precise input because it’s a touch first design, meaning its UI is built around large meaty fingers as the main input. And it can’t sustain the power throughput to run MacOS or its battery life would be abysmal and it would overheat.
I’ve often thought over the years of what a next generation Apple OS looks like. I always thought it should be built around AI long before AI became reality. And that it should be one OS, with a UI that morphs automatically depending on the device: so UI elements become larger automatically when on touch devices. And certain design patterns added in.

I really loved the Microsoft Studio computer. Amazing design and functionality. But the software didn’t work well because it’s not designed for touch.
 
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turbineseaplane

macrumors P6
Mar 19, 2008
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The iPad will forever be stuck as a smaller form factor because it’s a tablet first, meaning its screen will always be smaller than the largest MacBook Pro or large monitors that go with a desktop. This limits productivity. Can the iPad handle multiple large high resolution monitors? Maybe.

They already sell iPads as large as some of the MacBooks and nothing but software support stops iPads from being every bit as good and useful as a Mac when plugged into an external display
 

Thomas Davie

macrumors 6502a
Jan 20, 2004
746
528
They don’t sell a 16” iPad.
Yet. And should there be announcement of a new, larger screen iPad I’d buy one. And yes, my 12.9IPP’shave screens as big as my Macbook Air (but the screen stays closed in clamshell mode all the time)

Tom
 

Kahnforever

macrumors regular
Original poster
May 20, 2024
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Yet. And should there be announcement of a new, larger screen iPad I’d buy one. And yes, my 12.9IPP’shave screens as big as my Macbook Air (but the screen stays closed in clamshell mode all the time)

Tom
I have the 15” MacBook Air. 16” iPad would be terrible as a tablet to hold. But interesting for more professional applications like drawing or using like a pseudo-laptop.
 

Nikhil72

macrumors 68000
Oct 21, 2005
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Too bad. A Surface-type Mac is a no-brainer.
I mean, the Surface seems good in theory, but it's not like it was a resounding success of sales compared to both the iPad and laptop markets separately, especially in the price category they sit at. They strike me as more niche than tech-oriented folk want to realize.
 
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Pakaku

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Aug 29, 2009
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As much as I like my iPad, it excels at exactly nothing that my Macbook can't do better, except in being a drawing tablet. If the iPad is ever going to be a serious device, and Apple wants it to be if the Pro lineup is any indicator, then it needs to "grow up" and become a "Surface". The only reason an iPad will never become a Mac is because Apple intentionally holds it back in order to make twice the money selling two devices.
 
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fw85

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Jun 22, 2023
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I mean, the Surface seems good in theory, but it's not like it was a resounding success of sales compared to both the iPad and laptop markets separately, especially in the price category they sit at. They strike me as more niche than tech-oriented folk want to realize.
The surface has been and still is a flop due to poor execution and the overall low quality, tasteless approach that microsoft likes to do things with.

Poor thermals, poor battery and the software - perhaps the worst of it all.

It's year 2024 and in terms of software design and implementation, Windows is sitting right down there somewhere in the land of "barely passable". No wonder it's slowly losing market share to macOS year over year.
 

KPOM

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Oct 23, 2010
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The surface has been and still is a flop due to poor execution and the overall low quality, tasteless approach that microsoft likes to do things with.

Poor thermals, poor battery and the software - perhaps the worst of it all.

It's year 2024 and in terms of software design and implementation, Windows is sitting right down there somewhere in the land of "barely passable". No wonder it's slowly losing market share to macOS year over year.
With the Snapdragon X Elite coming soon, they should get thermals and battery life right. They have an announcement today. We’ll see about any further software updates.
 
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Sezel

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Apr 11, 2024
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I think Mac should be as it is but iPad Pro should be like a lite MacBook like the old MacBook 12"

Today's iPad Pro is way more powerful and efficient as compared to the old MacBook 12".

Those who don't need mac capability can get the regular iPad, mini or air. And those who want, can get the iPad Pro.
And those who don't want touch capability should get MacBook Air.
Other users who want more computational power should get MacBook Pro.

This will also justify the high price of an iPad Pro.
 
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kard32

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Dec 3, 2020
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This post is misguided. People just want a more powerful iPadOS.

Like — give me a full-desktop Safari that doesn’t bump me to a stupid app whenever I go to docs.google.com. This can’t possible require 10 years of R&D.

Right now I can do 99% of my work on a $150 Chromebook because it has a real web browser. I can’t say the same for an iPad. It’s a shame.
 
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H_D

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Jun 14, 2021
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When a MK is connected, maybe a mouse, 1 or 2 TB of SSD, 16 GB, 13” model (which is bigger than the 12” Air was) – what exactly about the high-spec iPad is not «Mac»? I do not understand why people are so against the idea that you can actually use that hardware with MacOS-Apps or MacOS itself, It doesn’t take away from iPad, it adds (massively) to it. And I still think it will not cut cut into sales at all. No one buys a 3000+$ system to replace a 1500$ MBA. I have MBPs, Studios, two iPads and still think it would be beneficial to be able to usw a large, M4-iPad as a kind of MBA light while on the road or with clients. And while I think that Mac should become touch-enabled in the long run in addition to IO with mice and keys, it would suffice for now to enable a more «Mac» experience and software when the Keyboard is attached. Just like running JumpDesktop, just locally and thus much better.
 

Kahnforever

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May 20, 2024
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When a MK is connected, maybe a mouse, 1 or 2 TB of SSD, 16 GB, 13” model (which is bigger than the 12” Air was) – what exactly about the high-spec iPad is not «Mac»? I do not understand why people are so against the idea that you can actually use that hardware with MacOS-Apps or MacOS itself, It doesn’t take away from iPad, it adds (massively) to it. And I still think it will not cut cut into sales at all. No one buys a 3000+$ system to replace a 1500$ MBA. I have MBPs, Studios, two iPads and still think it would be beneficial to be able to usw a large, M4-iPad as a kind of MBA light while on the road or with clients. And while I think that Mac should become touch-enabled in the long run in addition to IO with mice and keys, it would suffice for now to enable a more «Mac» experience and software when the Keyboard is attached. Just like running JumpDesktop, just locally and thus much better.
A Mac is not touch first. Repeat that over and over. The UI/UX is designed for a 1 pixel precise mouse arrow on a bitmap screen. The iPad is designed for touch. They are totally distinct.
 

turbineseaplane

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Mar 19, 2008
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A Mac is not touch first. Repeat that over and over. The UI/UX is designed for a 1 pixel precise mouse arrow on a bitmap screen. The iPad is designed for touch. They are totally distinct.

That continues to be less and less of an issue as they have iOS-ified macOS more and more.

We are really far removed from the original original aspirations and design ideals of Mac OS X
 

Kahnforever

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That continues to be less and less of an issue as they have iOS-ified macOS more and more.

We are really far removed from the original original aspirations and design ideals of Mac OS X
That isn’t true. The iPad is a grid of icons but more importantly all UI elements are designed for meaty finger input. This results in a much different UI and different experience to a Mac. For instance, small tool palettes loaded with a zillion buttons, etc are not possible and make no sense on a touch first device like an iPad. But it does make sense on a Mac.

People keep trying and thinking an iPad is something it is not. If you want a lawn mower with wings then you’ll get something that isn’t better at anything. It’s good that there is some Mac like functionality on the iPad with a trackpad, but it is not as good as a Mac and you cannot change the touch UI.
 
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kard32

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Dec 3, 2020
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That isn’t true. The iPad is a grid of icons but more importantly all UI elements are designed for meaty finger input. This results in a much different UI and different experience to a Mac. For instance, small tool palettes loaded with a zillion buttons, etc are not possible and make no sense on a touch first device like an iPad. But it does make sense on a Mac.

People keep trying and thinking an iPad is something it is not. If you want a lawn mower with wings then you’ll get something that isn’t better at anything. It’s good that there is some Mac like functionality on the iPad with a trackpad, but it is not as good as a Mac and you cannot change the touch UI.
How does any of this apply to having a gimped Safari, for example? Or having background processes stopped if you switch to another app so you can’t export from Pro apps or copy files without keeping an app window open?
 
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Kahnforever

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How does any of this apply to having a gimped Safari, for example? Or having background processes stopped if you switch to another app so you can’t export from Pro apps or copy files without keeping an app window open?
It applies because of the design and purpose of the iPad, just like the iPhone. They are designed to be mobile and effectively only used on battery power. Their thermal envelopes do not support the power throughput needed for MacOS and its applications so their processors are downscaled and throttled. In macOS, you can open 50 tabs in Safari, and then run a project export out of Logic while at the same time edit a video in Final Cut Pro and have music downloading to iTunes and sending Emails and other things, all at once.

If iOS didn't work the way it did by freezing most applications when you are not actively using them and shutting down a host of background processes your battery life on an iPhone or iPad would be as short as a handful of minutes, and perhaps even seconds.

I have a new M3 15" MacBook Air and it's a great machine. But can it keep up to my 16" M class MacBook Pro in any sustained task? No. Even as powerful as the MacBook Air is, it throttles because it does not have the thermals to support such high sustained output. The MacBook Pro has the larger thermals and active cooling with fans. And then there's the Mac Studio and Mac Pro that blow the doors off of a MacBook Pro.
 

Kahnforever

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They should make MacOS available for the pro iPad models and charge the typical $200 upgrade for it. That would take care of those who REALLY want to use it on their iPad, and lead to the inevitable "Apple is gouging us for something that should be included!" threads.
Macs are iPads in one respect: they have built-in multitouch with many of the gestures via the trackpad, which is itself much more efficient than lifting one's arms and smearing your meaty fingers on a screen. The Mac achieves both precise input to the degree of 1 pixel and multitouch all at the same time. The iPad does not achieve the precise input even though it tries with the magic keyboard and trackpad.
 
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iPadified

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Apr 25, 2017
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Some iPad users need to type long texts sometimes. That is easier with a keyboard as the app is full screen but to navigate, trackpad is much easier than pointing at the screen hence the MK. MK does not make the iPad a Mac - it is only providing one of many usage modalities of the iPad.
 
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TechRunner

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Oct 28, 2016
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Macs are iPads: they have built-in multitouch with many of the gestures via the trackpad, which is itself much more efficient than lifting one's arms and smearing your meaty fingers on a screen. The Mac achieves both precise input to the degree of 1 pixel and multitouch all at the same time. The iPad does not achieve the precise input even though it tries with the magic keyboard and trackpad.
I agree with you. My post was more tongue-in-cheek than a serious attempt at figuring out a way to add MacOS to the iPad.
 
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