iPad The iPad’s biggest problem is Lazy App Design

[haruhiko]

Somehow I think that the iPad is a testing field for their iPhone tech. Usually chips and hardware features come to the iPad first for no apparent reason, then the next year it will come to the iPhone.

Yeah sure, Apple has a vision to sell the most products possible. They don’t have one of the most successful marketing departments for nothing. They know exactly what they are doing, and their financial performance stands testimony to that assertion.

honestly they had a vision with the iPhone , it changed the world, iPad is just an accessory by comparison.

 

[spiderman0616]

I'm not convinced it's "lazy app developers" and don't love that description, as it's often not justified. Same with "lazy game developers". There are so many factors that can contribute to delays or unsatisfactory functionality in an app or game. I rarely get the feeling it's due to lazyness.

I think the issue with iPad Pro is the addressable market. The iPad Pro is not going to be a specific focus for most developers, therefore their apps aren't going to take full advantage of its power. There are so many powerful pro apps for the iPad out there, but if you use them, you see very quickly that they are far too complicated for the typical iPad user. iPad developers have to be careful about this--do we create a "pro" app that alienates 90% of the iPad user base and hope it will be good enough to get people to pay, or do we make something a little more mainstream that we can support with ads? Guess which one wins almost every time.

 

[bluecoast]

What a great thread - great OP and brilliant responses.

I've never bought an iPad for the reasons given by much of the replies in this thread.

I've used my gf and parents' iPad quite a bit and I'm amazed at how it is basically, a scaled up iPhone.

It's been like that from the start and 10 years after it was introduced, it still is.

As many of the prominent Apple commentators have being saying recently, with the 2021 IPP, the hardware is incredible but the software seems years behind what it should be.

Where's:

- Multi-monitor support
- Multiple logins
- ...And I'm sure that proper 'pro' iPad users could go on.

Craig F may jokily zip off in a classic car when introducing macOS Monterey in the WWDC 21 keynote (i.e. the implication that the Mac is a 'classic' mode of computing - and not the cutting edge).

However, Apple simply aren't giving a compelling vision & actual software delivery of the iPad truly being the 21st century computer that we should all be using instead of a Mac.

Most productive tasks appear to be harder on the iPad than they are on the Mac.

Not that I'm bad mouthing Apple's software engineering team. I suspect that with Cook's (sometimes excessive) numbers driven approach, the sales numbers were not there for iPad.

Therefore, its investment suffered in UI/code that was iPad specific & it's taking them a while to catch up. I'm sure that the pandemic hasn't helped either.

I think that from 2013-18, it felt as if Apple was simply 'the iPhone company & iPhone accessories company (Watch & AirPods)' and that everything else was on a back backburner.

Here's to iPadOS 16, anyhow...

 

[sracer]

So, though I have been a Mac user for years. I haven’t been an iPad user.

I had some of the earlier iPads. I bought the 1st gen and never really used it. So I kinda stopped buying them. I dropped off around the original mini. Over the years some jobs gave me iPads to use, so I had like the 3rd Gen OG and 4th Gen. I ended up buying this one only because I job I had last year had given me one, with a keyboard, and I really liked it. It was an older iPad 12.9 with the home button and a smart folio keyboard cover. I had never used an iPad with a keyboard before. So I bought this one.

I received it two days ago. And I’ve set it up and I kind of think it’s not so great. And this all comes down to app design. People either do not, or can not design for the iPad. Part of me thinks no one knows how to. I don’t even think Apple has figured it out. I’m astounded at how bad some of the app design is. For a person that hasn’t used an iPad in years, I’m seeing high level brands and apps that look like they’ve still just ported their iPhone designs as if it’s 2010. Redfin, Amex, even the NYT do not know how to properly use space. Google Docs, opens doc links from within the app in a browser, which then prompts you to download the app! WTAF.

A lot simple things you can do intuitively on a computer don’t work well on an iPad. In Google slides I wanted to batch select slides to delete them. On a desktop Shift, Select, click, delete. On an iPad individually select 74 slides. I have to go back to my computer to get work done in a timely manner.

All this is 100% correctable with design.

I think the best solution is to design certain apps like a interactive widget dashboard, that gives you an overview of lots of data quickly.

I also think Apple needs to set the tone and push developers to invest in designing apps properly and show them how.

I agree with your observations, but I disagree with what you believe the root cause to be.

The root issue is NOT lazy app design. Much of the behavior you observe in iOS apps is NOT the result of lazy design, but because of the restrictions and limitations placed on app developers by Apple itself.

Sometimes the restrictions/limitations are based in the APIs that are available to developers, but others are based on permissible practices that Apple imposes on developers. In other words, even if the APIs technically allow a certain behavior, Apple reserves the right to refuse an app to be placed in the app store if that app does not comply with certain protocols and practices.

This is all before addressing the limitations that are inherent in the design of iOS/iPadOS itself that cannot be overcome without a major overhaul.

 

[Ludatyk]

The root issue is NOT lazy app design. Much of the behavior you observe in iOS apps is NOT the result of lazy design, but because of the restrictions and limitations placed on app developers by Apple itself.

Another blame placed on Apple. I'm in agreement with @spiderman0616.

There are so many powerful pro apps for the iPad out there, but if you use them, you see very quickly that they are far too complicated for the typical iPad user. iPad developers have to be careful about this--do we create a "pro" app that alienates 90% of the iPad user base and hope it will be good enough to get people to pay, or do we make something a little more mainstream that we can support with ads? Guess which one wins almost every time.

The problem is the iPad market. "Pro" apps are niche when it comes to the iPad market. I recall one user claiming LumaFusion too expensive and then some devs have to abandon their app like Coda due to lack of profit. From consumers being alienated by subscriptions to "the race to the bottom" issue.

It's such a multifaceted problem from consumers, devs... maybe Apple that hasn't done enough to market those pro apps to encourage devs to build more.

 

[iPadified]

As long as users expect that an app cost next to nothing, there will be no top-notch apps. People are saying $30 for an app is too expensive. I say it is really cheap for many apps. Affinity apps are 20 USD, I think. Looks like a real steal to me. It is now 10 USD with 50% off. I might buy the apps just to support them.

 

[Night Spring]

As long as users expect that an app cost next to nothing, there will be no top-notch apps. People are saying $30 for an app is too expensive. I say it is really cheap for many apps.

The App Store also broke the payment scheme for software, where developers charge users a one-time fee to buy software, then they charge for users to move up to major version upgrades. If a user is happy with the older version, they can just keep using the old version, if the new version has features/improvements they want, they pay and upgrade. I think that was a good arrangement for both users and developers. But the App Store doesn't really allow for such a payment scheme. I don't like the subscription model, it forces me to keep paying even if I don't want the newer features, or god forbid, the developers don't do any updates.

 

[secretk]

The App Store also broke the payment scheme for software, where developers charge users a one-time fee to buy software, then they charge for users to move up to major version upgrades. If a user is happy with the older version, they can just keep using the old version, if the new version has features/improvements they want, they pay and upgrade. I think that was a good arrangement for both users and developers. But the App Store doesn't really allow for such a payment scheme. I don't like the subscription model, it forces me to keep paying even if I don't want the newer features, or god forbid, the developers don't do any updates.

Or worse (for Developers) not pay at all. I am strictly against subscription models. I am willing to pay one time price but not a subscription every month (let's just say that for me savings are important and subscription allow you to spend so much more than it is needed). As a result even if the app is great and offers awesome functionality, I would simply not pay for it. If Developers want to get paid for what they do, they should check their expected users because well if most of the users are like me, payment they would not get.

 

[mashinhead]

I agree with your observations, but I disagree with what you believe the root cause to be.

The root issue is NOT lazy app design. Much of the behavior you observe in iOS apps is NOT the result of lazy design, but because of the restrictions and limitations placed on app developers by Apple itself.

Sometimes the restrictions/limitations are based in the APIs that are available to developers, but others are based on permissible practices that Apple imposes on developers. In other words, even if the APIs technically allow a certain behavior, Apple reserves the right to refuse an app to be placed in the app store if that app does not comply with certain protocols and practices.

This is all before addressing the limitations that are inherent in the design of iOS/iPadOS itself that cannot be overcome without a major overhaul.

I’m not sure I agree here. I think the problem is layout, and use of space. I do agree with you that API’s can be limiting. And that limit can create better apps, but the issue I’m specifically highlighting, isn’t so much the content or what the apps can do, but how they function and use space.

Take the NYT for example. In landscape, there is letter boxing on the left and right. Or YouTube, when you run a search the left half of the page is just blank white space. Just wasted space.

This has nothing to do with any imposed limitation. It’s just bad design. The space is there, use it.

It’s like if they made an iPhone app, and just put the content on half the width of the screen.

 

[mashinhead]

Double Post delete

 

[Slartibart]

gentlepersons,

there is lazy… a lot… IMHO basically any app of a bank, airline, international company, or for a e.g. fitness device, etc. which offers to just scale up the iOS app to roughly fill the iPad screen. This has nothing to do with Apple (besides that they implemented the option to scale up an iOS app).

Then there is the already mentioned „what is an app worth?“-mentality of the iPad users.
I think we have to answer that one with: “Historically“ not much (for a variety of reason) for the moment.
Let me tell you some anecdote here: bought my first iPad - 11” iPP - in 2020 because I needed something to work on photographs while hiking. At the time I had to decide wether I go with a MacBook or the iPP. Testing a few things related to my specific needs I found the iPP faster, with a better display, running longer… - and to my surprise - with software like Pixelmator Photo, Raw Power, Affinity Photo&Designer, Vectornator, FileBrowser Professional, Textstastic, Working Copy, AutoDesk Sketchbook, Fontcase, etc. … available for for free or a ridiculous price compared to what I would spend on MacOS… I mean seriously…

And then I met people online who complained about the prices. ???

People who want “Pro”-apps and AAA games and complain that there are only a few. People who say that the bucket stops at Apple. And partly they right - there are limits, features and bugs on iPadOS which Apple should address.
But then again I am not sure wether the same people would pay a price for an app which allows a developer a sustainable business?
I mean… I paid something like 11€ for an app like Affinity Photo or RAW Power, about 8€ for Pixelmator Photo and Pixelmator (if I remember correctly) and received updates and bug fixes since then… now for more than a year… continuing… I can bring them even for no cost to a new M1 iPP… ??

Still one can find the mental conviction in many that iOS/iPadOS apps are not “really professional” and therefore just worth a few bucks.
I dare you ?, go to any full blown, professional app in the AppStore, most likely you will find a comment along the lines:

“the gratis version does not allow unlimited whatever. But the price for the full version is much to high, because on the laptop/desktop I have, there exists some software with that unlimited whatever functionality for free. Only one star.” (Probably written in slightly different words, probably written on an iDevice for several hundred bucks… yep, indeed, paying something like 20€ for an app is inconceivable ?)

And for the people desperately missing working in a shell with awk, clang, clang++, jupyter&jupyter console, etc.: you can do that. I do. Probably not on the professional level of many, but you can do quite a lot.
It is sufficient to quickly prototype some scripts or a standard I/O program, there are limitations based on WebAssembly, sandbox, iPadOS $HOME access, but you can integrate e.g. with Apple’s Shortcuts and write complex programs to download, process and release files using shell commands. ?

Still this doesn’t make the iPad the one device to rule them all ?, but sometimes it nice to be aware what can be done. ???

Ceterum censeo… external monitor on iPadOS support has to be reworked and extended… c’mon Apple, black borders are on the way out… we have seen the new M1 iMacs! ?

 

[LogicalApex]

Or worse (for Developers) not pay at all. I am strictly against subscription models. I am willing to pay one time price but not a subscription every month (let's just say that for me savings are important and subscription allow you to spend so much more than it is needed). As a result even if the app is great and offers awesome functionality, I would simply not pay for it. If Developers want to get paid for what they do, they should check their expected users because well if most of the users are like me, payment they would not get.

Yeah I am the same. If I see a subscription option I skip the app. I can be tempted if they offer a one-time unlock for all future versions as an IAP. Otherwise, hard no.

And that is not due to me wanting free updates forever. I just want a one time payment either upfront as a paid app or a IAP. I don’t want to be looking at a future with a thousand app subscriptions bleeding your dry like little leaches. I also don’t want to be sitting down every month going “will I use this app this month?” The money used adds up.

 

[Night Spring]

Or YouTube, when you run a search the left half of the page is just blank white space.

??? I don't get any white space. Still pics from the videos on the left, video title and other info on the right.

 

[Ludatyk]

I just want a one time payment either upfront as a paid app or a IAP. I don’t want to be looking at a future with a thousand app subscriptions bleeding your dry like little leaches. I also don’t want to be sitting down every month going “will I use this app this month?” The money used adds up.

One time payment days are far and few between… subscriptions are important for Apple, they encourage devs to do so. I think you and @secretk are looking at it from the perspective of monthly charges.

Smart devs offer one time payment for a version of an app (more expensive).. like Infuse, then have a subscription base model on an app. But that’s beside the point… most subscriptions offer annually payments. And with the annual model… they try to make that model less expensive to appeal to consumers.

The monthly subscription is there to give consumers a chance to test it out.. to see if they have use for the app. But if anything… the weekly subscription I have a problem with. Apple should do away with that entirely, sometimes people don’t realize that they signed up for it.. until it’s too late.

 

[Bubble99]

The main problem I see with the iPad replacing computers is the way our bodies physically work. There's just something about sitting at a desk, with a big screen in front of you, that focuses your mind in a way that sitting on a couch with a tablet on my lap doesn't.

That said, I'd love it if I could have a single device that does both modes. So an iPad that is a tablet when used by itself, but when you are at your desk, it links to the keyboard/mouse and desktop monitor, and presto, you are working on a desktop computer. There were some things in this year's WWDC keynote that made me think Apple may be gradually inching toward that. I hope I'm right.

I think it is what you are use to.

If you sit in front of say a 32 inch monitor than even a laptop seems like a toy.

Yes even 13 inch or 16 inch laptop the screen is way too small. If you power user with 32 inch monitor with two or three monitors side by side and many apps running, than no iPad or laptop will ever come any where close to that workflow.

 

[Bubble99]

???

Not arguing, but thousands of photographers do full projects on laptops while sitting on the couch or a tree stump. I’ve done dozens of paid video edits purely on a MacBook Pro because of the superior color accuracy. I get what you’re saying about “ideal conditions” but with great power comes great portable computing so “big screen and a desk” has become more of a luxury than a necessity.

Upbringing?

There are many 20s people these says who do not even own a desktop computer but just use a laptop and well some people that could be they have never had any upbringing being way too young and other people not living at home but a college dorm or condo where space is major problem.

Well people in the 90s to mid 2000s it was desktop computer.

So bit of culture difference where he feels more in his zone sitting at the desk with nice big large screen monitor to spread out is workflow and having may be two or three monitors going.

I think it is what you use to and your upbringing.

 

[mashinhead]

??? I don't get any white space. Still pics from the videos on the left, video title and other info on the right.

Sorry I meant the right not the left. I think you're saying the screen after you click into a video. I'm talking about just the list after search

 

[LogicalApex]

One time payment days are far and few between… subscriptions are important for Apple, they encourage devs to do so. I think you and @secretk are looking at it from the perspective of monthly charges.

Smart devs offer one time payment for a version of an app (more expensive).. like Infuse, then have a subscription base model on an app. But that’s beside the point… most subscriptions offer annually payments. And with the annual model… they try to make that model less expensive to appeal to consumers.

The monthly subscription is there to give consumers a chance to test it out.. to see if they have use for the app. But if anything… the weekly subscription I have a problem with. Apple should do away with that entirely, sometimes people don’t realize that they signed up for it.. until it’s too late.

The Infuse model is fine (same done by Halide as well) where I can pay a one-time fee and skip the subscription model. I prefer a one-time purchase where I can decide to pay again to upgrade or not, but I understand that the path Infuse and Halide are taking aligns more with modern approah.

It doesn’t matter to me if it is a weekly, monthly, or annual subscription. It still ends up the same at the end of the day. I have a charge I need to evaluate and take on as a maintenance item in my life. Am I using X app enough to justify renewing it? Maybe I didn’t use it last year as much as I hope to use it this year. Maybe I use the app, but do I use it enough to justify $X on it? If not, now what do I do replacing it? Round and round we go. So I now need to “groom” subscriptions regularly to prevent myself from wondering where hundreds of dollars a month is going.

I am sure it ends up a lot like Cable subscriptions from when I was a kid. People paying hundreds of dollars a month so they could watch sports on the weekends and hundreds of channels they didn’t care to watch. But they can’t just pay for the TV when they want to watch it. Fast forward to today you can now go al la carte and people are paying more now juggling 50 different streaming services so they can watch that 1 show and are stuck paying for it the rest of the time they don’t need it and somehow they are bleeding more money than the days of Cable unless they are VERY diligent in grooming.

The cognitive load is too high and so is the financial waste.

 

[Night Spring]

Sorry I meant the right not the left. I think you're saying the screen after you click into a video. I'm talking about just the list after search

Yes, the list after the search. Pictures on one side, info on the other. Granted, there is not much info, so there is a lot of white space, but it's not like one side is totally white.

I suppose they could tile the pics, with the title under each pic. But the way it is now doesn't bother me.

 

[rui no onna]

I am sure it ends up a lot like Cable subscriptions from when I was a kid. People paying hundreds of dollars a month so they could watch sports on the weekends and hundreds of channels they didn’t care to watch. But they can’t just pay for the TV when they want to watch it. Fast forward to today you can now go al la carte and people are paying more now juggling 50 different streaming services so they can watch that 1 show and are stuck paying for it the rest of the time they don’t need it and somehow they are bleeding more money than the days of Cable unless they are VERY diligent in grooming.

Standalone, it's just Netflix and Disney+ for me.

Amazon, I've had a Prime subscription since 2005/6 for 2-day shipping so the video stuff is more of a bonus. HBO Max, I get free with my cellphone plan. Wouldn't subscribe to it otherwise.

If there's a must-see on other services, I'd just sign up for 1 month to binge watch and disable auto renewal right away.

Mind, I like Infuse's model as well. Offer more expensive standalone versions or lifetime sub as well as more affordable monthly/annual subs. I subscribe to Microsoft Office because the alternatives aren't good. However, I just don't like perpetual subscription models for software. Office 365 is my one and only software sub.

 

[Ludatyk]

It doesn’t matter to me if it is a weekly, monthly, or annual subscription. It still ends up the same at the end of the day. I have a charge I need to evaluate and take on as a maintenance item in my life. Am I using X app enough to justify renewing it? Maybe I didn’t use it last year as much as I hope to use it this year. Maybe I use the app, but do I use it enough to justify $X on it? If not, now what do I do replacing it? Round and round we go. So I now need to “groom” subscriptions regularly to prevent myself from wondering where hundreds of dollars a month is going.

I agree, it can be irritating managing subscriptions. And I try to avoid going the subscription route if I can take advantage of a one-time in app purchase. But in most cases if you signing up for an annual subscription 9 times out of 10, you will keep that subscription on going.

Mind, I like Infuse's model as well. Offer more expensive standalone versions or lifetime sub as well as more affordable monthly/annual subs. I subscribe to Microsoft Office because the alternatives aren't good. However, I just don't like perpetual subscription models for software. Office 365 is my one and only software sub.

I‘ve been an Infuse user since the inception of the app and I knew the subscription model was coming… it was inevitable. But the dev was transparent on how he was planning on trying to make the transition less annoying… they provided a heavy discount to the early adopters who sign up for annual subscription.

Adobe and/or Microsoft suites are essential when it comes down to subscriptions… especially in the work space.

 

[Darth Tulhu]

Wow so many unhelpful, nitpicky, almost hostile responses to the original poster. Just because they pointed out the fact that developers are still producing awkward iPad apps after 10 years, and the iPad is not even close to replacing an actual computer, despite Apple’s marketing claims.

Of course it is. Let's not exaggerate. It cannot replace a computer for everybody, (sounds like definitely not for you) but you cannot find one instance where it could? Have you tried to?

Hint: It did for me. Why? Because I don't need a "computer". An iPad will do.

Let’s face it everyone it’s a giant iPhone.

So people who don't like the iPad have been saying since 2010. You SHOULD know better by now. Or perhaps not...

I love them

I don't believe you. Everything you state in your post contradicts this statement.

but they’re not practical for most tasks

I find the opposite to be true. The iPad is surely more practical than a Mac, in the tasks that people use iPads for.

Perhaps you were referring to the tasks YOU need a Mac for.

So yeah, that VW Golf is not going to be as practical as your pickup truck when you're a farm-hand that needs to pull a horse trailer, go off-road, or haul some hay on the truckbed.