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I'm not arguing against a file system - I want a file system for my photos & videos when traveling as I use it for sorting and processing as I go along. I also do a mirror backup of the same to a portable HDD while on the road. The HDD then works for fast transfer into my system when I get home.

I do like the iPad for a lot of things but for this particular use case I prefer a laptop for overall efficiency and ease of use.
Clear and logic. You have a good working setup, why change it?
My rant was just aimed at all those people complaining there isn't a file system. There is, it's just different then before. Different from macOS. But macOS is different from windows, is different from Linux, OS2 (remember that ) and other ancient systems like dos or commodore etc.

If you might ever be tempted, there might be a solution in lightning+USB sticks, but I've never tried, and those are expensive imho.
 
Clear and logic. You have a good working setup, why change it?
My rant was just aimed at all those people complaining there isn't a file system. There is, it's just different then before. Different from macOS. But macOS is different from windows, is different from Linux, OS2 (remember that ) and other ancient systems like dos or commodore etc.

If you might ever be tempted, there might be a solution in lightning+USB sticks, but I've never tried, and those are expensive imho.

It took me a while to get used to the iOS sandbox environment but once I fully understood it and started using apps like FileBrowser and Documents, things became easier for me. Sharing files among multiple apps can still be confusing at times and I grind my teeth at the sandbox.

I also use a FileHub with my iPad at times to connect wirelessly to an HDD (or USB stick or SD card) attached to the hub. I actually tried that approach on a 3-week trip where I didn't want to carry a laptop. I was able to backup many 10's of GBs of photos and videos using that but in the end I wished I had the laptop for processing the data. The FileHub does work great for streaming video from an HDD.

I also tried the Leef products for Lightning-USB store but they did not work well for me.
 
It took me a while to get used to the iOS sandbox environment but once I fully understood it and started using apps like FileBrowser and Documents, things became easier for me. Sharing files among multiple apps can still be confusing at times and I grind my teeth at the sandbox.

I also use a FileHub with my iPad at times to connect wirelessly to an HDD (or USB stick or SD card) attached to the hub. I actually tried that approach on a 3-week trip where I didn't want to carry a laptop. I was able to backup many 10's of GBs of photos and videos using that but in the end I wished I had the laptop for processing the data. The FileHub does work great for streaming video from an HDD.

I also tried the Leef products for Lightning-USB store but they did not work well for me.

Thanks for the filehub suggestion, didn't know that. Going to look into that! Thanks!
 
Darn, $40, that's not much.

Yeah. I also have a Seagate wireless drive but the FileHub has the advantage of being able to use any USB-based storage device (I usually use a 4TB Western Digital drive) and SD cards. I can access files using their app or a 3rd-party app like FileBrowser, GoodReader, and Documents.
 
The iPad is not a laptop replacement. It is a different thing. It cannot do all the things a laptop can, but it can do some things very well. And it has evolved over time.
Right -- and a laptop is not a desktop replacement; and a phone is not a tablet replacement; and a desktop is not a large-scale mainframe replacement; and a smartwatch is not a phone replacement.

If someone treats the tablet as a tablet, then it'll do its job great.

I tell ya, just like I said back in 2010: if I started over again, and had a place in the house to keep a desktop, an iPad would satisfy 99% of what I do at home on a computer.
 
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Except when Internet service is unavailable, low quality/bandwidth, or pricey. I've run into all of the above while travelling so I take my laptop with me.
Your right of course.

But even in this situation if you know ahead of time you can load the data onto to iPad. It's only if your caught with a file that it is a problem. Plus on iPad you have cell service.

It's a question of the right tool for the job.

I want Apple to keep making both. I love handoff, iCloud, and the universal copy and paste between iOS and Mac OS.
 
Might be, but tell me, what can't you do, Dyl Ulenspeghel?

There are still downsides to managing files on an iPad-only setup. Some of them have been around for a long time; others are a by-product of recent additions to the iOS platform.

iCloud Drive app folders are isolated from each other. iOS apps like Documents and Workflow can't access or display the contents of other apps' folders. This prevents the existence of a full-featured iCloud Drive file manager that offers functionalities Apple doesn't want to build in their iCloud Drive app. There should be an API to allow third-party apps to gain access to the entire contents of your iCloud Drive filesystem, just like there are APIs for photo and music access.

You can't pass around multiple files at once. Something I miss from macOS is the ability to move multiple files around from one location to another. If you want to copy multiple files to another app on iOS, your best chance is to compress them as a single .zip archive or upload them to the cloud and download them again afterwards.

This shouldn't be the case. Apple needs to rework the entire 'Copy to/Import with' extension system (the former 'Open In' menu) and the document picker with support for multiple items.

iCloud Drive is missing features available on the web app. Did you know you can view recently deleted files and restore them in iCloud Drive? I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't, because this option is only available on the iCloud web app, which isn't even supported on Safari for iOS. The iCloud Drive file management UI needs to be completely revamped, and Apple has to include these hidden features in the redesign.

No drag & drop for files on the iPad. This applies to Split View in general, but there should be an easier way to move files between two apps that doesn't require tapping multiple times through menus and share sheets. Drag & drop is an obvious solution: it would be nice if I could drop an image from iCloud Drive into an image editor, or if I could drag a file from Dropbox into my email client to quickly attach it to a message. This is basic stuff for the Mac; the iPad should have this feature, too.

from https://www.macstories.net/stories/one-year-of-ipad-pro/2/#the-downsides-of-ios-file-management
 
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I don't think I've seen it in this thread - what about simultaneous editing of multiple documents? Example: On my laptop I have 2 MS Word files open in separate windows that I am copying and pasting text from into a third document I have open. At the same time, I may also be making changes in the first 2 documents that I need to save. How would I do this in iOS?
 
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Good point!


I believe Microsoft One drive and Readdle both have similar features so you are not limited only to DropBox.

I think we are a victims of habit and unwilling to change sometimes. Cloud storage is unlimited and in many ways better.

For one, i think one reason for pushing cloud storage is because these things aren't replacement devices, they are complimentary to other devices.

And if thats the case, you want to be able to access the same stuff on all your devices depending on where you are and what you are doing.

A direct filesystem browser means you're going to need to be copying files about yourself.

If you just sync everything in a "cloud" (either public or private) space, then every device just has all your stuff, no manual file copying required.

Even on my PCs and Macs, i'm mostly storing stuff in cloud sync services now. Its just less hassle than remembering which device i need for whatever file, and if i don't happen to have a particular device, it goes flat, or whatever i just carry on with a different device. Or even a web browser.
 
I understand your point about the iPad being a different device. I agree. But I don't think the iPad is really ever going to replace an unrestricted computer. It is a mobile device which is design for dead simple access. Individual apps my be developed for activities which a laptop can perform, but the iPad supposed to isolate the user from the low level issues.

I think of it like the older British sports cars. Most if not all came with a small tool pouch to work on the car. There are plenty of people today who still work on their cars for pleasure/hobby or career. However, the majority of people do not not want a car which has to be worked on. The car needs to be reliable/ long lasting and economical. There will always be a need for some type of Mac OS but in the long run most people will not need or want that.

Interesting perspective. S you think that in the end the iPad may replace the laptop. It can be true. But first the iPad must be able to do the tasks a laptop can do. And it is not yet ready for it. I don't think there is room for a device between the smartphone and the laptop. The iPad will either replace the laptop (or become an alternative to it) or disappear. If I already have an iPhone (or another smartphone) in my pocket for quick Internet browsing, and a laptop for serious work, why do I absolutely need a tablet? Can the iPad, or the tablet industry, survive just because it may be more convenient at times, without adding something really new?
 
For one, i think one reason for pushing cloud storage is because these things aren't replacement devices, they are complimentary to other devices.

And if thats the case, you want to be able to access the same stuff on all your devices depending on where you are and what you are doing.

A direct filesystem browser means you're going to need to be copying files about yourself.

If you just sync everything in a "cloud" (either public or private) space, then every device just has all your stuff, no manual file copying required.

Even on my PCs and Macs, i'm mostly storing stuff in cloud sync services now. Its just less hassle than remembering which device i need for whatever file, and if i don't happen to have a particular device, it goes flat, or whatever i just carry on with a different device. Or even a web browser.

Another reason to push cloud storage is big-time revenue - Apple's services revenue almost equaled computer sales revenue in Q4 2016. In 2016, Amazon had $12B in revenue and $3.1B in operating income profit from cloud services and Microsoft estimated $14B in annualized revenue from cloud services.
 
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Another reason to push cloud storage is big-time revenue - Apple's services revenue almost equaled computer sales revenue in Q4 2016. In 2016, Amazon had $12B in revenue and $3.1B in operating income profit from cloud services and Microsoft estimated $14B in annualized revenue from cloud services.

To a degree yeah, but i don't know anyone who directly pays for Apple cloud storage. Sure, there's some, but i'd wager that Apple's "service" revenue is mostly iTunes.
 
There are still downsides to managing files on an iPad-only setup. Some of them have been around for a long time; others are a by-product of recent additions to the iOS platform.

iCloud Drive app folders are isolated from each other. iOS apps like Documents and Workflow can't access or display the contents of other apps' folders. This prevents the existence of a full-featured iCloud Drive file manager that offers functionalities Apple doesn't want to build in their iCloud Drive app. There should be an API to allow third-party apps to gain access to the entire contents of your iCloud Drive filesystem, just like there are APIs for photo and music access.

You can't pass around multiple files at once. Something I miss from macOS is the ability to move multiple files around from one location to another. If you want to copy multiple files to another app on iOS, your best chance is to compress them as a single .zip archive or upload them to the cloud and download them again afterwards.

This shouldn't be the case. Apple needs to rework the entire 'Copy to/Import with' extension system (the former 'Open In' menu) and the document picker with support for multiple items.

iCloud Drive is missing features available on the web app. Did you know you can view recently deleted files and restore them in iCloud Drive? I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't, because this option is only available on the iCloud web app, which isn't even supported on Safari for iOS. The iCloud Drive file management UI needs to be completely revamped, and Apple has to include these hidden features in the redesign.

No drag & drop for files on the iPad. This applies to Split View in general, but there should be an easier way to move files between two apps that doesn't require tapping multiple times through menus and share sheets. Drag & drop is an obvious solution: it would be nice if I could drop an image from iCloud Drive into an image editor, or if I could drag a file from Dropbox into my email client to quickly attach it to a message. This is basic stuff for the Mac; the iPad should have this feature, too.

from https://www.macstories.net/stories/one-year-of-ipad-pro/2/#the-downsides-of-ios-file-management

- the "root" directory, iCloud Drive, can be opened within documents 5. There is a blue + button in the right bottom corner. Press it and you can copy files/folders to the documents 5 by readdle folder. Also files located in "desktop", "chunky comic reader, playgrounds, scanner by readdle, tested it or textastic or preview can be copied in this way. This is a restriction by apple, you can't manipulate these files like the ones in the REaddle folder. But I dump each and every file just in my documents 5 folder and manage them right there like I need to.

- in documents 5 press the "select" but ten in the right top corner and select multiple files & folders. Move them, copy them, delete them, zip them, star them, colour tag them, upload them into another ap or email them.

- see previous point to pass multiple files;

- iCloud.app is limited, but you are not limited to iCloud.app it can be done, it is done by me on a daily basis. I know about the recently deleted files, I know everything about it. I hardly ever use it, but when I'm on my ipad and do make a mistake, I use iCabMobile to access icloud.com and retrieve them. Happened two times in well over 18 months, both times I was really happy to retrieve these files.

- Documents 5 will allow some drag and drop, but drag and drop on a touch-screen with my fat fingers isn't something I like to do. Drag & drop between applications still isn't possible.

This is just 1 app, there might be dozens of others that do the same or more.
Seriously, I work as a consultant with dozens of files, around 35 active client folders, around 250 not-active client folders, about 100-150 emails a day, about the half that number of xls/word/PDF-files and if I couldn't store these in a logical way, I would be stark raving mad in just 2 weeks time and have lost my clients because I can't find the files.
You have to rethink some ways you work, but most of the things you are used to do, can be done just as easily on an ipad as on a macOS.

Edit: one idiotic thing I just found out (and never used before since I went 100% iPad Pro) you can't copy a CBR file back to the Chunky directory. That seems annoying, but hold your horses.
Rethink it and you can select multiple files in Documents5 (e.g. that you just zipped, renamed and collected in a folder,) then open them with chuncky and it will copy the files for you to Chunckys directory.
So even that doesn't look doable at first happens to be easy and not very complicated when you rethink/understand iOS.
 
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I don't think I've seen it in this thread - what about simultaneous editing of multiple documents? Example: On my laptop I have 2 MS Word files open in separate windows that I am copying and pasting text from into a third document I have open. At the same time, I may also be making changes in the first 2 documents that I need to save. How would I do this in iOS?

I can view a ms-word file in documents/mail/airmail-3/etc (with an awful makeup, it's horrible) or I can open the first word file in pages/Ulysses/the likes, review/edit it there and save it as an word-file again.
The second file can just be opened in word.
But edditing in three different files at the same time in one 9.7" ipad is near to impossible, on a 12.9" it is not really handy, it gets me confused, I easily make mistakes.

If it happens that I need to have three files open, my own solution is to have a 12.9" ipad with a word-document in Word and a PDF-file in Documents5 in split screen mode. I then have the third word/PDF-file on my 9.7". If I select and copy something on the 9.7, I can paste it on the 12.9".
But having two iPP's is a bit decadent, even though I have good(enough-for-me-my-wife-thinks-different) arguments to own both.
 
Interesting perspective. S you think that in the end the iPad may replace the laptop. It can be true. But first the iPad must be able to do the tasks a laptop can do. And it is not yet ready for it. I don't think there is room for a device between the smartphone and the laptop. The iPad will either replace the laptop (or become an alternative to it) or disappear. If I already have an iPhone (or another smartphone) in my pocket for quick Internet browsing, and a laptop for serious work, why do I absolutely need a tablet? Can the iPad, or the tablet industry, survive just because it may be more convenient at times, without adding something really new?
I believe the new added feature is the locked down aspect of iOS. I can give an iPad anyone and not have to worry about malware, virus and how to launch an app. The browsing experience is easy and if something goes sideways wipe it and be backup in 5 minutes. In addition, I can restrict access easily to web sites, purchases content. Why have 4 or 5 TVs if you can have 4 or 5 tablets that allow you to watch TV where ever when ever.

Adding an app is the App Store. No looking for website of vendor, payment options, compatibility checking and then returning to check if there is an update.

When you buy an iPad it is the entire experience, which is in many ways better then a laptop.
 
I think the main point here is that Documents by Readdle is an app that should have been included by Apple on the iPad as standard software. Then nobody would be complaining about the lack of a file system.

The thing I find most annoying about iOS10 is not being able to open 2 instances of an app side by side. I'd like to see that feature added.
 
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I think the main point here is that Documents by Readdle is an app that should have been included by Apple on the iPad as standard software. Then nobody would be complaining about the lack of a file system.

The thing I find most annoying about iOS10 is not being able to open 2 instances of an app side by side. I'd like to see that feature added.
Both points are spot on.
But opening two instances of the same app is not something is see happening anytime soon. Memory constraint, the kernel might not be able to handle that, there might be security implications as well and basically result a complete rewrite of iOS.
But it might also canibalise to much on MacBook 12, MacBook Air and even MacBook pro's sales.
 
Both points are spot on.
But opening two instances of the same app is not something is see happening anytime soon. Memory constraint, the kernel might not be able to handle that, there might be security implications as well and basically result a complete rewrite of iOS.
But it might also canibalise to much on MacBook 12, MacBook Air and even MacBook pro's sales.
Agree. I have a feeling Apple will include something like this in up coming iOS update. It is the most common complaint regarding limitation of iOS.
 
As iOS grows, applications will push the platform. The applications will become more useful and powerful.
What high end programs do you want to use exclusively on 12.9 or 9.7" screen? Without a trackpad or mouse? Without a file system? Video editing, audio daw and editing, any form of programming will always be better on a laptop. I love the the ipad pros--they are great devices for art and simpler tasks.
I don't see any ios revolution in the offing because there is no need for it
 
I believe the new added feature is the locked down aspect of iOS. I can give an iPad anyone and not have to worry about malware, virus and how to launch an app. The browsing experience is easy and if something goes sideways wipe it and be backup in 5 minutes. In addition, I can restrict access easily to web sites, purchases content. Why have 4 or 5 TVs if you can have 4 or 5 tablets that allow you to watch TV where ever when ever.

Adding an app is the App Store. No looking for website of vendor, payment options, compatibility checking and then returning to check if there is an update.

When you buy an iPad it is the entire experience, which is in many ways better then a laptop.

Yes, that is right. It is the blessing and the curse of the iPad.

The iPad provides a great experience. However, people will eventually have to choose if it is worth it. If it is worth to have three or only two devices. The smartphone is not going to be replaced, so it makes one of these devices. The question is whether there is a market for two additional devices, or if the iPad and the laptop will compete against each other. And if they do, people may find out that the laptop is more useful despite providing a poorer experience.
 
For one, i think one reason for pushing cloud storage is because these things aren't replacement devices, they are complimentary to other devices.

And if thats the case, you want to be able to access the same stuff on all your devices depending on where you are and what you are doing.

A direct filesystem browser means you're going to need to be copying files about yourself.

If you just sync everything in a "cloud" (either public or private) space, then every device just has all your stuff, no manual file copying required.

Even on my PCs and Macs, i'm mostly storing stuff in cloud sync services now. Its just less hassle than remembering which device i need for whatever file, and if i don't happen to have a particular device, it goes flat, or whatever i just carry on with a different device. Or even a web browser.

Another reason to push cloud storage is big-time revenue - Apple's services revenue almost equaled computer sales revenue in Q4 2016. In 2016, Amazon had $12B in revenue and $3.1B in operating income profit from cloud services and Microsoft estimated $14B in annualized revenue from cloud services.

Yes easy ubiquitous data is the reason steve jobs gave for pushing cloud. But I agree the bigger reason for most companies is for revenue. Nothing companies would like more than a steady locked-in income from their customers. So many have moved toward the subscription model touting customer benefit as the motivation. But the same convenience could be accomplished without the monthly fee... through automatic wifi sync on your home network. If instead of syncing with cloud, apps automatically sync their files with your home computer/other devices at home, you will always have your most current data on whichever device you take with you when you leave your home. All your files locally stored on all your devices (option to choose selective sync), all secure, all automatic, all free. But there's too much money in cloud services so this won't happen any time soon.

The thing I find most annoying about iOS10 is not being able to open 2 instances of an app side by side. I'd like to see that feature added.

Both points are spot on.
But opening two instances of the same app is not something is see happening anytime soon. Memory constraint, the kernel might not be able to handle that, there might be security implications as well and basically result a complete rewrite of iOS.
But it might also canibalise to much on MacBook 12, MacBook Air and even MacBook pro's sales.

I think it's possible Apple is leaving it to 3rd party developers to build the "two instances" feature directly into their own apps? Much the same way it's now built into safari. But if that's the case, I don't know why Apple hasn't done the same for Notes, Pages, etc.
 
What high end programs do you want to use exclusively on 12.9 or 9.7" screen? Without a trackpad or mouse? Without a file system? Video editing, audio daw and editing, any form of programming will always be better on a laptop. I love the the ipad pros--they are great devices for art and simpler tasks.
I don't see any ios revolution in the offing because there is no need for it


Agreed. You are correct. I think anything that requires significant creation will still require an excellent keyboard and full access to the operating system.

In addition you will want large local access to control the versions and backup.
 
Both points are spot on.
But opening two instances of the same app is not something is see happening anytime soon. Memory constraint, the kernel might not be able to handle that, there might be security implications as well and basically result a complete rewrite of iOS.
But it might also canibalise to much on MacBook 12, MacBook Air and even MacBook pro's sales.

They built this into Safari, so I'm sure it's not too much of an issue to do it for all apps. Just to be clear, I don't really care what they call it -- it doesn't have to technically be 2 instances of the same app -- it just has to make it possible for me to open up 2 files in the same app at the same time. Often times I could use this feature in Word and Excel, and it is annoying to constantly open and close files when you really just want to keep both open together.
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I believe the new added feature is the locked down aspect of iOS. I can give an iPad anyone and not have to worry about malware, virus and how to launch an app.

This is the main reason I prefer my iPad Pro to a PC or Mac. There are many great features that are included in OSX, but that I was skeptical to use on my previous MacBook Pro for security reasons. For example, that pop up you always get "would you like Safari to save this password?" -- also happens on PC web browsers. My response? Always "never for this site".

Why? Because if my PC or Mac becomes infected with a virus or malware, those passwords could be at risk. But now that I use the iPad and iPhone exclusively as my only devices, I feel confident in the security and have started to use these types of features.

Capability is not the only factor in my decision. Security is also a big factor.
 
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