The "Laptop Replacement" Debate

[Chancha]

I was in Japan for a week of traveling with my family, taking photos daily, with 3 DSLRs taking RAWs all being managed by my iPad (5th gen 128GB) using Lightroom Mobile. The intention is to use one portable machine setup to store, manage, sort and edit on the fly, and finally share selected and edited pictures to the web.

I knew the internal SSD is not going to be enough for all photos (we ended up taking 5000+ shots and each with RAW+JPEG totaling ~200GB), therefore purchased a WD My Passport Wireless Pro 4TB which can be accessed via 5GHz WiFi from the iPad, can ingest images directly from camera SD card.

So, I got all the hard specs down: the computing power of A9 chip, decently large 9.7" touch display for on the road editing, the storage space for photos on the WD, Lightroom Mobile being a very powerful app with RAW capabilities. But I just couldn't get it to work. The weak link is in iOS's limitations. In order for LR Mobile to accept RAW imports, the images have to be sitting inside of Camera Roll. And Camera Roll does not accept external device as storage, the files have to be either on the internal SSD filesystem, or on the iCloud. If I directly import photos onto the iPad via USB3 dongle bypassing the WD external drive, I have to use Camera Roll import interface but it is very basic, the only input I can have is to choose which images to import, it does not sort or even show the filenames, and I must import photos as RAW+JPEG pairs. So I have to choose between either spending endless time to manually pick which photos to import, or I import only half of my images and then delete the rejects afterwards, making space to import more..........

I do have a 2015 MBP15" so I know full well how good a laptop solution is, but also its limits. Last week I was again on the road but only a weekend. Over the 3 hour train trip I used the MBP with Lightroom desktop version to edit photos. While I got full control and full functions, big screen and very fast processing etc, there is one important issue: battery ran out under 3 hours. The kind of adjustment edits I did would fire up the dGPU on the MBP and the fans were constantly on.

I just wish Apple can make the 2 ends meet ASAP. Right from the advent of the iPhone, it was obvious that the future of computing was going to be something in between a 4" phone and a ~15" laptop. iPad series are fantastic products on its own, as with the MacBooks, but it is getting painfully obvious that the gaps between is needed to be closed and Apple for some reason has not been advancing enough on this. For the scenario I described above, I could be much better served by MS Surface products but I prefer MacOS / iOS unless necessarily otherwise.

 

[sparksd]

I was in Japan for a week of traveling with my family, taking photos daily, with 3 DSLRs taking RAWs all being managed by my iPad (5th gen 128GB) using Lightroom Mobile. The intention is to use one portable machine setup to store, manage, sort and edit on the fly, and finally share selected and edited pictures to the web.

I knew the internal SSD is not going to be enough for all photos (we ended up taking 5000+ shots and each with RAW+JPEG totaling ~200GB), therefore purchased a WD My Passport Wireless Pro 4TB which can be accessed via 5GHz WiFi from the iPad, can ingest images directly from camera SD card.

So, I got all the hard specs down: the computing power of A9 chip, decently large 9.7" touch display for on the road editing, the storage space for photos on the WD, Lightroom Mobile being a very powerful app with RAW capabilities. But I just couldn't get it to work. The weak link is in iOS's limitations. In order for LR Mobile to accept RAW imports, the images have to be sitting inside of Camera Roll. And Camera Roll does not accept external device as storage, the files have to be either on the internal SSD filesystem, or on the iCloud. If I directly import photos onto the iPad via USB3 dongle bypassing the WD external drive, I have to use Camera Roll import interface but it is very basic, the only input I can have is to choose which images to import, it does not sort or even show the filenames, and I must import photos as RAW+JPEG pairs. So I have to choose between either spending endless time to manually pick which photos to import, or I import only half of my images and then delete the rejects afterwards, making space to import more..........

I do have a 2015 MBP15" so I know full well how good a laptop solution is, but also its limits. Last week I was again on the road but only a weekend. Over the 3 hour train trip I used the MBP with Lightroom desktop version to edit photos. While I got full control and full functions, big screen and very fast processing etc, there is one important issue: battery ran out under 3 hours. The kind of adjustment edits I did would fire up the dGPU on the MBP and the fans were constantly on.

I just wish Apple can make the 2 ends meet ASAP. Right from the advent of the iPhone, it was obvious that the future of computing was going to be something in between a 4" phone and a ~15" laptop. iPad series are fantastic products on its own, as with the MacBooks, but it is getting painfully obvious that the gaps between is needed to be closed and Apple for some reason has not been advancing enough on this. For the scenario I described above, I could be much better served by MS Surface products but I prefer MacOS / iOS unless necessarily otherwise.

I tried the same on a 3-week trip to the Galapagos except I used a FileHub with a 4TB WD HDD attached to it. Really regretted not taking the laptop as my ability to do much with the RAW photos on the trip was limited in the way you describe. I now have a 13" Dell XPS laptop that I take - small but powerful and with full Lightroom & Photoshop (plus, I prefer processing using a mouse as I have benign tremors and don't have the manual dexterity for a pen). I extend the battery life when necessary with a Dell Power Companion battery but rarely need it. For me, a much better solution (right tool, etc.).

 

[s2mikey]

Two things needed. Direct file management (without having to go to the cloud or through iTunes) and Mouse/Trackpad support. If they include these things in iOS 11, that would truly give us what we want to make the iPad a laptop replacement.

Mouse support though means you need to be carrying another device with you(mouse). Defeats the single-device concept of the ipad IMO. Just get a small laptop or mcbook at that point. How would a trackpad work? Same as a mouse?

I believe that for a large number of users that the Ipad is a suitable replacement for a laptop. Most folks are just consuming content, emails, some notes, surfing, etc and for these tasks the ipad is perfect. Most of us do have a laptop still in the house though for one of three reasons:

1) You truly need the higher level of functionality/productivity capabilities.
2) You need a Windows based system for thigns like kids homework and/or Microsoft Office "full" support.
3) You are a big time gamer and many of your favs arent available for iOS or you prefer the full laptop version to the iOS version.

Thats about it.

 

[throAU]

Mouse support though means you need to be carrying another device with you(mouse).

No...

Mouse support != mouse requirement.

if the iPad had mouse support it would make a MUCH better VDI terminal or remote desktop device.

i.e., get to desk, place ipad on desk, it wirelessly connects to the display, mouse, keyboard; you remote desktop into a Windows or whatever VDI server.

 

[IvanEd747]

The best laptop replacement is a Microsoft Surface. It has Windows in it, and the surface pen pretty much replaces a mouse the vast majority of interactions, even hovering the cursor around.

 

[Chancha]

I tried the same on a 3-week trip to the Galapagos except I used a FileHub with a 4TB WD HDD attached to it. Really regretted not taking the laptop as my ability to do much with the RAW photos on the trip was limited in the way you describe. I now have a 13" Dell XPS laptop that I take - small but powerful and with full Lightroom & Photoshop (plus, I prefer processing using a mouse as I have benign tremors and don't have the manual dexterity for a pen). I extend the battery life when necessary with a Dell Power Companion battery but rarely need it. For me, a much better solution (right tool, etc.).

I had a workaround with the WD iOS app, since the iPad can access it remotely and browse the stored photos, I could do the cheery picking in the app first, and then choose to save the picks into Camera Roll in the same way you save from a website - that is, one by one - it is slow, tedious, but at least I get the full res file (still only JPEG not RAW).

The battery issue on a laptop is solvable by battery banks, and in the case of USB-C equipped laptops like the MBP2016, it is getting much easier since it no longer requires some proprietary magic. But even with that, nothing can beat the sustainably longer uptime on the iPad 5th gen, and it has built in LTE, GPS, lighter footprint for single hand usage, touch etc which all helps in a traveling scenario.

I think apps like what Adobe is pushing is not a bad alternative, Lightroom Mobile probably does 70% what the desktop version can, sometimes I feel the iOS version is so much more optimized than the desktop ver where the same adjustment tasks just fly on my iPad and chokes on the MBP. But for the grander scheme of computing world it is difficult to demand all software developers to spend efforts doing tablet ports which as we know is a quickly diminishing market. And the current state of iOS with all its self-imposed limitations, especially its file-system, is just not helping anything.

I honestly think Apple also doesn't know how to move on from this. If the iPad part of iOS is further customised, it increase the difficulty and cost for devs to create iPad versions of their apps which they may as well just focus on the iPhone Plus, which essentially is an iPad Mini replacement nowadays. If the iPad starts running its own OS/kernel, then it is a market that no devs would be interested in. Or if iPad just runs natively or a port of macOS, then the macOS needs to be further revamped towards touch interface that Macs don't have, and it will further upset long time Mac users.

Apple's refusal to implement touch in macOS or unleashing the potential of iOS are the polarizing factors in question. By the time they realize it, MS Surface probably will already have a perfectly working product lineup in place.

 

[throAU]

The best laptop replacement is a Microsoft Surface. It has Windows in it, and the surface pen pretty much replaces a mouse the vast majority of interactions, even hovering the cursor around.

Have had 4 of them.

No. It's a laptop, not a laptop replacement.

Wake from sleep regularly doesn't work, WIFI craps out, i've had 4 hardware failures (SP3 and SP4) before i gave up.

 

[IvanEd747]

Had have 4 of them.

No. It's a laptop, not a laptop replacement.

Wake from sleep regularly doesn't work, WIFI craps out, i've had 4 hardware failures (SP3 and SP4) before i gave up.

Well, it is tablet shaped and has apps (albeit, not very good ones). I haven't heard of hardware failures but what you describe is quite believable, being hardware for Windows.

 

[alecgold]

I have had a surface pro 3 for some weeks, but the battery life was crap. I am a heavy user, both my iPads are 20% at the end of the day, or even lower. But that is all day usage.

a bit off topic, but what do you do with 5000+ JPEG&raw? Are you a professional photog?

 

[sparksd]

I have had a surface pro 3 for some weeks, but the battery life was crap. I am a heavy user, both my iPads are 20% at the end of the day, or even lower. But that is all day usage.

a bit off topic, but what do you do with 5000+ JPEG&raw? Are you a professional photog?

Speaking for myself, not Chancha, I can easily take thousands of photos (I shoot RAW only) on a longer trip. I'm not a professional but rather a "serious amateur" and being retired, I have the time to process them and pull out a subset as favorites. But I do make a point of not continuously keeping the camera up to my face - enjoy/experience with your eyes, not just through a camera lens.

 

[Chancha]

a bit off topic, but what do you do with 5000+ JPEG&raw? Are you a professional photog?

Photography is part of my profession (music recording and publish related), but this specific trip was just family holiday with my father, who happens to be a wild life photographer hobbyist. So we rounded up taking huge loads of photos anyway (out of nature) and used the trip as an experiment to test new lenses, gears, and workflow. In my real work I got a MBP15" 100% of the time, but always pondered about the prospects of having an iPad replacing the MBP, since thats what Apple has been telling people. Guess I managed to get a clear answer now. Just stumbled into this thread since the title asks for the exact question.

 

[skaertus]

What high end programs do you want to use exclusively on 12.9 or 9.7" screen? Without a trackpad or mouse? Without a file system? Video editing, audio daw and editing, any form of programming will always be better on a laptop. I love the the ipad pros--they are great devices for art and simpler tasks.
I don't see any ios revolution in the offing because there is no need for it

Well, a 12.9" screen is already enough for some work, as it has the same area as the screen in a 13.3" MacBook Pro (actually, it is 0.47% larger). The problems are really the lack of mouse/trackpad and the file system. But then, people may think that paying at least USD 968 for a 12.9" device with keyboard (the most basic one, that does not include the pen, nor additional storage, nor cellular) is too much for not being able to handle complex tasks, also having to bear the costs of a laptop.

 

[Jodiuh]

Samsumg Tab Pro S, 8gb, 256 gb, $699 with keyboard .

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung...ffcode=pg198996&ksdevice=t&lsft=ref:212,loc:2

Typing this on my iPad Pro Smart Keyboard. To me what is really missing is the mouse or trackpad support. Drag and drop between windows, faster copy paste.

For once and for all, if you use Dropbox, the Dropbox.app is your file system, you can open word documents from word, spreadsheets from excel etc etc. Just like all the other cloud services.

Or you can open the files from Documents 5
What do you need a finder for if you can do everything with documents5? add a WebDAV, One drive, office 365, google drive, ftp, sftp, yandex or box link and hey presto, your file system is working. It can also manage local files on the iPad.

iOS isn't macOS, it's never was to be, and I hope it never is going to be.

So once and for all, if you don't know how, try google, try macrumors or dozens of other apple oriented websites. Ask, try, experiment.
But stop whining about a file explorer/finder/file system. It makes you look ignorant/stupid/trolling.

/rant

I still feel iPads are a perfect lean back device to read the news and stuff like that. IPad for 299 is great and people will keep on buying. They still sell 3 x as Macs.

Good point!


I believe Microsoft One drive and Readdle both have similar features so you are not limited only to DropBox.

I think we are a victims of habit and unwilling to change sometimes. Cloud storage is unlimited and in many ways better.

I tried to edit out some of the text in these quotes, but gave up almost immediately. Selecting text is so painful...I had specific things I wanted to ask and comments I wanted to share...but on an iPad, it's just not working for me. :/

Basically, the iPad is great for reading, but not so much for manipulating text. I used an old Thinkpad today for awhile and tho it looks nasty and can be slow to load pages, moving around so much easier.

But it's also not something I enjoy using on a couch. I suppose in my case I will hang ont this device and keep reading for tips, etc...all the while looking for a decent notebook.

 

[prospervic]

I tried to edit out some of the text in these quotes, but gave up almost immediately. Selecting text is so painful...I had specific things I wanted to ask and comments I wanted to share...but on an iPad, it's just not working for me.

It's easier using an external keyboard, but not perfect.
If using the on-screen keyboard, try double-tapping any two keys together: this highlights a complete sentence.

But in your case, the problem might not be the iPad at all, but MacRumors Forums' terrible comment interface. It's maddening how the reply box jumps off the screen when you use the (external keyboard) arrow keys!

 

[jamesrick80]

I just no longer advocate the iPad ever being a laptop replacement for now...the reasons have been stated over and over again.

 

[Jodiuh]

If using the on-screen keyboard, try double-tapping any two keys together: this highlights a complete sentence.

Wow, lol. I had no idea this could be done!

But in your case, the problem might not be the iPad at all, but MacRumors Forums' terrible comment interface. It's maddening how the reply box jumps off the screen when you use the (external keyboard) arrow keys!

I think I've fallen for this trick at least here to four times per day. :/

...It's easier using an external keyboard, but not perfect...

I do have the Smart Keyboard, but having never used a Mac before, I'm still learning the keyboard shortcuts.

Thanks for the tips. It did take me longer to type this post out using the iPad in tablet mode with the onscreen keyboard than the Thinkpad, but I can't use that on the toilet!

Now, back to some Smallville!

 

[Synergie]

I have iPad Pro 12.9. I have not touched my MBP 13" in ages now. I use iCloud to store everything and can easily work between files on both iPhone and iPad. I have used Pixlr to do full posters for print (see attachment) including working with layers. I actually like working with my hands touching the actual work more than a trackpad now. For example erasing around the edges of an image you want to remove the background from is MUCH easier directly with your finger on the image than trying to trace it with a trackpad.... and magic wand doesn't always work! Anyway I also have recorded multi track audio and worked with a great full featured multi track video editor that has much of the same features as the program I used at a tv station to do video editing.

 

[ElCidRo]

Depends on the work... for most productive tasks... unfortunately not.
Even for the tasks which the iPad can handle, it feels like a chore... It's not a good experience! I enjoy doing even low-complexity work on my MacBook much, much more.

My Dream machine, MacBook with detachable screen - when in tablet mode, iOS, laptop mode MacOS. Yes... something like Surface Book - but with MacOS. And with LTE.

Or at least add LTE... please Apple?

 

[visegripmikey]

The thing with mouse support is that combined with pen input, the pen would need to have "on hover" capability, like how Wacom stylus' work. However, yes pretty much the ability to easily select and manipulate text or video segments is that "one thing" that is preventing an iPad from being a true laptop replacement. Whether or not that happens with a stylus, touchpad or mouse is moot. My son and I were working on a Google presentation concurrently, myself on my mac and he on his iPad. He just gave up copying and pasting text and stuck to typing, while I did all the edits. That was eye opening.

 

[Works4Me]

I get that some people want to use an iPad as a laptop replacement, even temporarily, but I just can't do it. Even selecting text, cutting and pasting takes longer than it does on a laptop. And I can't look at two word docs side by side (in the same program). I love my iPad for annotating pdfs (using the pencil), but there are some many things I can't do as well on my iPad as I can on my Macbook Pro (or any laptop). But, as always, your mileage may vary...

 

[Stefan johansson]

So, a person relates his own experience, and the best most folks can do is respond reflexively to the thread title and say, "No, it's not."

It's not a matter of whether a laptop might have been even better, or whether there are features one person may need, but another does not. It's not a matter of whether the iPad UI could be even better. It's one person, sharing his personal experience, using iPad just as it is today. Experience someone else, with similar needs, may find useful.

I've said this many times, in many threads... I stopped lugging around a laptop (PowerBook G4) three months after I purchased a first-generation iPad (which I purchased three days after it was introduced, over seven years ago). I didn't need to wait around for iPad Pro (though I have one now) - iPad, for me, has been a "laptop replacement" since the beginning.

Neither the OP nor I claim that it can be a replacement for everyone. If someone is using a laptop as their primary computer... well, I can't replace my iMac with an iPad, either. But since my mobile needs are what they are, a laptop, for me, is heavier, bulkier, and more expensive than I need.

For me,as I don't use desktop computers,and often work with photo editing,I usually need both laptop and iPad,for different tasks.

 

[genealto]

Every so often I see threads asking if the Ipad can replace a laptop, something I've been wondering a bit myself. Today I can a conference/course event about some training I'm doing with a big assignment submission, resources on the web pulled from lots of different sites, several other supporting documents etc. I thought I'd just take the Ipad, since my classroom is being used for exams I've started doing work on there rather than trying to find and log into a windows machine. Also took a little Anker bluetooth keyboard.

Managed to easily add to the word document submission, keep notes in onenote on resources, clip pdfs and web links into onenote, reference PDFs on dropbox, keep up with work emails in outlook and remote desktop into my work login to access some files with the ipad no problem at all. On my table of 6, people slowly drifted to the edges of the room to find plugs, when we finished I'd had the ipad running all day, was the only one still not needing a plug and had 41% power left!

Amazing thing is this is a 32gb Ipad air1, so I didn't even have the true multitasking, just used slide over a bit with onenote and word and tabbing between apps and managed fine, though true multitasking would have been nice to have on a few occasions.

So if anyones wondering, at least for that type of work, ipad instead of a laptop works fine. I'd put them about even, Ipads battery and portability is a big plus and being able to really quickly snap pictures of slides/documents is handy, but not being able to have web/word open side by side was inconvenient a few times; waiting for the next Ipad pro 9-10" before I upgrade for that functionality.

Apple will obsolete the iPad version you buy. g
Get a laptop

 

[IPadNParadise]

Found another reason why I still need a laptop in addition to my ipad. I need to download a firmware update for my camera to an sd card. Dont even tell me if I can do that with an ipad, that would require an additional purchase for the equipment. For these simple tasks that require additional purchase, more cost effective to keep a laptop, even if a cheap one.

 

[jamesrick80]

Found another reason why I still need a laptop in addition to my ipad. I need to download a firmware update for my camera to an sd card. Dont even tell me if I can do that with an ipad, that would require an additional purchase for the equipment. For these simple tasks that require additional purchase, more cost effective to keep a laptop, even if a cheap one.

I can do this on any android device, CHROMEBOOK, or Windows 10 device.....may require an adapter at least for android devices or usb otg flash drive but very simple.....

 

[alecgold]

Found another reason why I still need a laptop in addition to my ipad. I need to download a firmware update for my camera to an sd card. Dont even tell me if I can do that with an ipad, that would require an additional purchase for the equipment. For these simple tasks that require additional purchase, more cost effective to keep a laptop, even if a cheap one.

I can do this on any android device, CHROMEBOOK, or Windows 10 device.....may require an adapter at least for android devices or usb otg flash drive but very simple.....

I do understand what you both ar saying, and I don't think it can be done with an ipad at all. Perhaps if you are lucky and like to tinker a lot, you could end up with a SD-card-adapter to USB in a USB-lighting-dongle with some odd app that can copy the unzipped update files to the SD-card. And then it's still a big perhaps that it all is going to work. Just this kind of work is what I wanted to avoid by using iPads. And it works most of the time really well. But this is one of those things an iPad can't/hardly can do.

That being said, android devices need an SD-card adapter as most have a micro-SD-card-slot (or nothing, looking at you Galaxy S6) and most cameras use full-fat-SD-cards.
Chromebooks are mostly the same: no reader or a micro-SD AFAIK.
The few windows-10 devices I've seen so fare are also a hit and miss for the SD-card slot. Some have one, most cheaper versions seem to lack it.
So in many cases it would require some sort of SD-card adapter/reader.

Yet, like iPadNParadise said, keeping a (cheap) laptop on hand is still advisable. I do basically the same, I have a monitor-less older MacMini with 4-bay 2.5" storage to the lighting port that I can use for the odd task, storage of ancient files (I know wonder why I keep all those). I can even borrow my wife's 27" dell monitor if I ever need it.