The "Laptop Replacement" Debate

[Synergie]

Someone earlier in the thread hit the nail on the head so to speak...

It's not the capability of the iPad especially iPad Pro and especially the 12.9 version with more ram and higher clocked CPU.

The ONLY issue keeping developers from writing fully fledged apps for iOS is that being a locked system means you can only distribute your app through the App Store. That means a 30% loss in the sales. So developers would either have to price the apps 30% higher than their desktop versions which people won't buy... or they make less capable versions for iOS which they can give for free or low cost and then try to sway people to buy their desktop versions. The 30% loss on the sales which go to Apple is the major issue blocking us from having desktop grade applications. Because the hardware can easily handle it. And as we've seen from some other apps like Pixlr, the capability is easily there to handle multiple layers etc. No full PS on iOS? It's because Adobe would lose 30% on their sales of it.

 

[jeremiah256]

Someone earlier in the thread hit the nail on the head so to speak...

It's not the capability of the iPad especially iPad Pro and especially the 12.9 version with more ram and higher clocked CPU.

The ONLY issue keeping developers from writing fully fledged apps for iOS is that being a locked system means you can only distribute your app through the App Store. That means a 30% loss in the sales. So developers would either have to price the apps 30% higher than their desktop versions which people won't buy... or they make less capable versions for iOS which they can give for free or low cost and then try to sway people to buy their desktop versions. The 30% loss on the sales which go to Apple is the major issue blocking us from having desktop grade applications. Because the hardware can easily handle it. And as we've seen from some other apps like Pixlr, the capability is easily there to handle multiple layers etc. No full PS on iOS? It's because Adobe would lose 30% on their sales of it.

Apple's 30% tax is easily avoided. There are many companies, such as Amazon, that provide apps to use their services (Audible, Kindle, Amazon Prime Video, Comixology, etc), but you don't purchase the service or product through the iOS App Store, but via a browser on you iOS device. Same with many other apps, especially streaming services.

 

[MartyCan]

Sorry but I am questioning why I really have an iPad. I have an IPP with the ASK. I wanted it to be a laptop sub/replacement. Truth is I only use 5 - 6 apps on any regular basis. Really nothing I do on this that I could not do on another.

I'm not trying to slag it but for me really now this is merely a barely more convenient way to waste time on apps that are becoming more an more useless (Facebook being the #1 on that list) apps. Yes, once in a while I open a spread sheet or document. Mostly it is FB, surfing a few web sites such as this and that is it. Did I need an extra $1500 device to do that? Not really.

Apple (and in fairness any other tablet maker) needs to find a way to make the iPad way more relevant. For years the novelty of it really worked well enough but now I often find myself wondering why I keep using it.

 

[Vivian125]

It is because you fail to understand the context in which the iPad can replace a laptop. And as a result, you claim that the iPad being a laptop replacement is "a bit ridiculous at the very least."

Alright then.

Let's leave "professional" aside then. Based on all the arguments given one should be able to conclude that an iPad is not a replacement for a laptop, since a laptop offers full functionality, whereas an iPad is very limited and its limitations are wholly artificial, since Apple dumbed down a device for whatever reason.

iOS on an iPad is a severe limitation to the device's potential. The lack of support for peripherals, where one buys an Apple USB dongle and cannot use most of the USB devices, because it "draws too much power and cannot be used" and the iPad refuses to read the external device. This is also artificially dumbing down the device, where Apple changed the ampere allowance from 100 to 20 through a software update.

I simply think Tim Cook insults its user base, whether the majority of the user base understand they are being insulted is another story, I do and so do others with me, since Cook's assertion that the iPad is a laptop replacement is just nonsensical.

Almost everything is done faster on a laptop than on an iPad. If your profession values time and money, then a MacBook would probably be a better investment than an iPad which is severely handicapped.

If you read my signature you can see I own an iPad Pro and I like the device, but I use it mainly for web browsing, reading, playing the odd game and showing my work when at a meeting.

Doing actual work is all done on a MacBook Pro. Writing articles, editing articles, retouching photos, editing videos, multitasking, having multiple apps open at the same time and seamless integrated with the OS and each other. All on a MacBook. None on an iPad.

Alright then.

Let's leave "professional" aside then. Based on all the arguments given one should be able to conclude that an iPad is not a replacement for a laptop, since a laptop offers full functionality, whereas an iPad is very limited and its limitations are wholly artificial, since Apple dumbed down a device for whatever reason.

iOS on an iPad is a severe limitation to the device's potential. The lack of support for peripherals, where one buys an Apple USB dongle and cannot use most of the USB devices, because it "draws too much power and cannot be used" and the iPad refuses to read the external device. This is also artificially dumbing down the device, where Apple changed the ampere allowance from 100 to 20 through a software update.

I simply think Tim Cook insults its user base, whether the majority of the user base understand they are being insulted is another story, I do and so do others with me, since Cook's assertion that the iPad is a laptop replacement is just nonsensical.

Almost everything is done faster on a laptop than on an iPad. If your profession values time and money, then a MacBook would probably be a better investment than an iPad which is severely handicapped.

If you read my signature you can see I own an iPad Pro and I like the device, but I use it mainly for web browsing, reading, playing the odd game and showing my work when at a meeting.

Doing actual work is all done on a MacBook Pro. Writing articles, editing articles, retouching photos, editing videos, multitasking, having multiple apps open at the same time and seamless integrated with the OS and each other. All on a MacBook. None on an iPad.

If an iPad has external keyboard with usb socket, flash drive storage, mouse, true multi tasking, and used for editing videos. What will happen to Macbook sales if iPad can replace it? Of course if iPad becomes like a Microsoft Surface Pro, then Macbook would dissapear on sales.

Whats the point of selling of a Macbook And macs if iPad already gives you everything? That is why it can never ever replace desktop completely. Especially windows PC

For editing videos? Hmm, both iPad and iPhone can edit video since 2013, its called iMovie. And its waaaay easier to use than a Macbook. But an iPhone editing videos ?? No it is not a substitude for iPad and Macbook because of smaller display of an iPhone even its iPhone 6/7 Plus.

I also laughed when you say macbook is faster thna iPad, well i have macbook pro retina with touch bar 2016, it is faster when booting up obviously. But when browsing the web, playing games, actually both my iPad Mini 4 and iPad Pro is faster than Macbook!! And for your information... macbook is not for gaming, its for the people who wants to backup their iPhone and iPads and to use in front of class. As i rarely bring my Macbook in school, and work since my iPad Mini 4 together with my iPhone 7 plus. Since thye can already read PDF files though

 

[Flint Ironstag]

I have the larger iPad Pro. I would love to replace my MBP with it, but:

- It really needs (as many others have stated) direct access to the filesystem, or at the very least it needs to be able to read HFS or APFS. I'd love to boot a Mac in target disk mode, plug it into my iPad, and run disk utility, diskwarrior or what have you. Maybe this is some of the tighter ecosystem integration the execs hinted at.

- How is there not an official ARD app?

- Mouse support (this is crazy)

 

[alecgold]

You see a laptop would work for both of us. It offers full functionality. Therefore it is the most professional device of the two.
An iPad works for your profession. Not for mine.

No a laptop wouldn't work anymore since my work is in the cloud/web based/not localaized. So I need/want a 4G/LTE connection.
And no, tethering isn't a solution, it is a pain in the proverbial place, it's not a reliable connection (and loosing the connection often means losing work/data) and I've had providers just blocking tethering the next day without so much as a notice.
In the past I have been using a Panasonic CF-19 because it's a well build, reliable machine with 4G/LTE build in, but it's like a hammer and chisel on a stone slab, compared to the refined experience on an iPP with AKS and pencil.

So for one a laptop is the only right solution for another it isn't
But the question isn't if the iPP is the laptop replacement for everybody. It's just if it can replace a laptop for some/many. And I think it can replace a laptop for many. Just look at countries like India where people never had a laptop, they just got a smartphone and are able to do everything they need in their daily life on that. There are more people having a smart phone than people having a bank account.
Look at people who have a controlling/managing job, why would they need to haul around a laptop of all they do is work online/in the cloud with PDF's and docx'?

 

[Chancha]

The argument of who is more Pro than the other has already happened enough in the MBP and Mac Pro sub-forums, it's not needed to debate anymore. Every once in a while an nMP owner will storm a thread saying he is offended because his FCPX-centric workflow makes him thousands but somehow not viewed as pro enough in the forum. The issue is flexibility; if a device is optimized and only performs very well for a narrow range of tasks, then to call it a generally useful tool for most would be an over-statement.

Apple has already back-pedaled on the Mac Pro front, but not looking likely to go back on the touch bar MBPs. The iPads has one (unfortunate) difference in that they were *never* as versatile and as capable as laptop, so Apple has a larger case in its reluctance of making it closer to a laptop.

Therefore our frame of reference lies in competing products like Surface Pros. It may not do either touch or desktop interfaces perfectly, but the point of such device is the versatility; it can act as a tablet with apps when mobile, but at times you can use it as a legit laptop replacement. In fact the newest SP5 is literally a laptop considering its hardware specs: Kaby Lake i5/i7, dGPU, running full Windows 10 etc. My profession involves taking and managing photos and videos on the field, and the SP series is obviously a much better fit to my workflow than either an iPad or MBP can serve.

The notion of "if it doesn't work for you, then you are not their customer" is null. As a consumer, a working professional at that, all that I should care is if said product fulfills what it promises in its promotional tagline for my specific use case. It is the seller's job to decide which field of interest would best serve their financial aims. When Tim Cook asks "who needs a PC anymore", then my answer is "well when your iPads out performs your own MacBook Pros, perhaps".

 

[BarracksSi]

- It really needs (as many others have stated) direct access to the filesystem, or at the very least it needs to be able to read HFS or APFS. I'd love to boot a Mac in target disk mode, plug it into my iPad, and run disk utility, diskwarrior or what have you. Maybe this is some of the tighter ecosystem integration the execs hinted at.

It "reads" APFS in that it's the file system that iOS uses now (which we all know anyway), but the scenario you describe would be fantastic. I'd consider upgrading from my iPad 2 if a newer one could work as a utility/diagnostic device.

 

[IPadNParadise]

After giving all this (apple devices) alot of thought, I have come to this mature decision. I have a wonderful fully maxed out on all specs, refurbished 15" 2015 MBP. I am happy with it, do my photo editing on it, but am definitely not waiting on any upgrades. I am hoping I never have to buy another, just use it till it cant be updated any more. And I am hoping by that time that an ipad truly is a laptop replacement. I absolutely love my ipad pro 9.7". With that said tho, I am looking forward to an announcement on them at WWDC. A few months ago, I would have bought the 10.5" on day 1 but now I am going to carefully look at a worthwhile upgrade replacement, regardless of the size. I also see why Apple disappoints us (speaking of ipad here), if they wowed us every year with awesome upgrades, there is just only so far you can go with a mature product. If they had nothing to upgrade, sales would really tank. Now, as time goes on, ipad related build technology increases, upgrades can continue at slow paces and sales will continue. I, for one, will continue to upgrade my ipad regularly and let that ridiculously priced $3000 MBP rest on a shelf in the closet! Fingers crossed anyway that ipads really someday be laptop replacements, just another choice in Apple's lineup.

 

[BarracksSi]

I dunno about you guys, but what I'm really waiting for is a laptop that's good enough to be a mainframe replacement.

And a smartwatch that can be a Mac Pro replacement. Because the current Watch "isn't 'pro' enough."

 

[case2001]

I dunno about you guys, but what I'm really waiting for is a laptop that's good enough to be a mainframe replacement.

And a smartwatch that can be a Mac Pro replacement. Because the current Watch "isn't 'pro' enough."

I love it!!

Real "Power Users" need a command line and EMACs. Graphical user interfaces are toys. They don't get any real work done.


It all depends on what and how you need to get things done. I find when I get home I connect my MacBook Air to a charger set it on my desk and only use my iPad. If I need to do something like 3D print an object I use the IPad to control the MacBook Air. If I need Fusion 360 or Xcode I go to the MacBook Air and use it. For the keyboard and trackpad.

I really enjoy walking around my house with iPad and using it wherever I need. It's in an OtterBox case and really don't worry about dropping it or scratching it.

In short I pick the tool for the job.

 

[Freakonomics101]

After giving all this (apple devices) alot of thought, I have come to this mature decision. I have a wonderful fully maxed out on all specs, refurbished 15" 2015 MBP. I am happy with it, do my photo editing on it, but am definitely not waiting on any upgrades. I am hoping I never have to buy another, just use it till it cant be updated any more. And I am hoping by that time that an ipad truly is a laptop replacement. I absolutely love my ipad pro 9.7". With that said tho, I am looking forward to an announcement on them at WWDC. A few months ago, I would have bought the 10.5" on day 1 but now I am going to carefully look at a worthwhile upgrade replacement, regardless of the size. I also see why Apple disappoints us (speaking of ipad here), if they wowed us every year with awesome upgrades, there is just only so far you can go with a mature product. If they had nothing to upgrade, sales would really tank. Now, as time goes on, ipad related build technology increases, upgrades can continue at slow paces and sales will continue. I, for one, will continue to upgrade my ipad regularly and let that ridiculously priced $3000 MBP rest on a shelf in the closet! Fingers crossed anyway that ipads really someday be laptop replacements, just another choice in Apple's lineup.

I have a late 2012 Air which has a ton of life left in it. Still runs like new. So you should have no issues with your 2015... it will be living a long, healthy life if maintained well.

 

[Cape Dave]

I dunno about you guys, but what I'm really waiting for is a laptop that's good enough to be a mainframe replacement.

And a smartwatch that can be a Mac Pro replacement. Because the current Watch "isn't 'pro' enough."

Just wait, because I have it from a very good source that there will be not only a set of 12 new emojis at WWDC but also 5 "pro" watchbands!

 

[Centris 650]

It's hardly professional when one cannot do on an iPad the tasks needed to perform one's job well. As a programmer and a photographer an iPad at this stage is useless and thus not a professional device.

My wife is a CPA and would love to do her work on a mac but there are NO professional tax preparation software out there for the mac. I guess by your definition the mac isn't a professional device for anyone.

 

[Essaux]

My wife is a CPA and would love to do her work on a mac but there are NO professional tax preparation software out there for the mac. I guess by your definition the mac isn't a professional device for anyone.

If you consider a severely limited OS and thus device a "Pro" device, then we will never agree.

That it's touted as a laptop replacement by Tim Cook is ridiculous. You being okay with having a dumbed down OS is good for you. Not for me and many others.

 

[MyopicPaideia]

My wife is a CPA and would love to do her work on a mac but there are NO professional tax preparation software out there for the mac. I guess by your definition the mac isn't a professional device for anyone.

Agreed. Have been searching and hoping for browser-based professional grade tax software for years. Really good enterprise level accounting and bookkeeping software is already there, but tax software seems stuck on Windows local installs still.

The difference being on a mac you can run Windows on a virtual machine (for free as well with virtual box) right alongside macOS and run that tax software anyway.

That is not happening on an iPad within the next 10 years, for sure.
[doublepost=1496397492][/doublepost]I would absolutely jump on board with using an iPad Pro as my sole device if the following 3 things happened.

1. API/SDK support for full integration of cloud file management software (i.e. iCloud or Dropbox) enabling all apps to work with them in exactly the same way that Microsoft Office for iOS works with Dropbox today.
2. Full blown desktop web-browsing experience (this would require that all iPads, from iOS 11 forward, identify themselves with their webUID as desktop Safari)
3. Full versions of key professional productivity and creativity apps (Office, iWork, and Adobe CC being three big examples)

1. Would completely satisfy demands for desktop class file managers like Finder/Windows Explorer. 2. Would fix the embarrassing limitations of iPad web browsing, expecially on the larger iPad Pro, where it is completely ridiculous that you get a tablet website (no, requesting the desktop site doesn't work in most cases anymore, most sites just look at the browsers webUID and if it is tablet or mobile, no dice!) 3. Would allow proper creation of pro level documents on the device rather than it being relegated to simpler editing of existing docs.

I can't really see any of these things happening though...not this year.

 

[atlantamac]

If you consider a severely limited OS and thus device a "Pro" device, then we will never agree.

That it's touted as a laptop replacement by Tim Cook is ridiculous. You being okay with having a dumbed down OS is good for you. Not for me and many others.

I agree but for what I do , if it had mouse/trackpad support it would be perfect for me. But they will never do that because it would run into their laptop sales.

 

[alecgold]

If you consider a severely limited OS and thus device a "Pro" device, then we will never agree.

That it's touted as a laptop replacement by Tim Cook is ridiculous. You being okay with having a dumbed down OS is good for you. Not for me and many others.

The dumb os is good for me and many others, thank you.
I went from windows to osx because i was so fed up with thinkering.
Now i went from osx to ios to have even less tinkering, fidling and it-management. It saves me loads of time, so i can become more productive. Or, like today, sit outside in the shadow on this superb day and read some e-books for work.

 

[alba63]

Well, every argument has basically been said by now. Requirements and expectations are very different from user to user.
One of my main requirements is being able to save documents and files in specific folders on specific devices, like (external) USB devices, local servers and such. No way I would store all of my docs into a cloud. For some this is just out of the question, not only for privacy reasons, also because it makes you rely on sime company 's services. Android tablets let you store - relatively easily - on an attached USB stick.
That I like...

 

[plexdk]

The biggest plus with using an iPad instead of a Mac is, like the OP mentioned, how long a single charge will last throughout the day. My 2013 MacBook Air 11" lasts 4.5 hours tops on a single charge. With my iPad Pro 9.7, basic use, all day, and then some.

If they did in fact add support for the Apple Mouse and made the OS more like the Mac, that would be BA! The iPads would truly be competitive with the other tablets out there that can already do all that.

If they did that, wouldn't it just be a macbook with touch? which means, its never gonna happen

 

[Centris 650]

If you consider a severely limited OS and thus device a "Pro" device, then we will never agree.

That it's touted as a laptop replacement by Tim Cook is ridiculous. You being okay with having a dumbed down OS is good for you. Not for me and many others.

I still don't understand the animosity towards the iPad.

 

[Count Blah]

I still don't understand the animosity towards the iPad.

Because it's an iPhone OS, blown up a little bit. The apps are too limited for a lot(not all) 'Pro' work. And many don't want to rely on cloud services for all their activities. Having 3rd party apps try to fill in the gaps in this 'Pro' device may be nice and all, but they can go away/no longer be supported tomorrow.

Pleas don't get me wrong, I like my iPad, and I'll be getting the new 10.5" one. But I'll not look to it to replace a lot of the work I do on the PC, because at present, it cannot do such, to my satisfaction.

Does that help?

 

[Cape Dave]

Because it's an iPhone OS, blown up a little bit. The apps are too limited for a lot(not all) 'Pro' work. And many don't want to rely on cloud services for all their activities. Having 3rd party apps try to fill in the gaps in this 'Pro' device may be nice and all, but they can go away/no longer be supported tomorrow.

Pleas don't get me wrong, I like my iPad, and I'll be getting the new 10.5" one. But I'll not look to it to replace a lot of the work I do on the PC, because at present, it cannot do such, to my satisfaction.

Does that help?

I think of my iPad as my Netflix machine.

 

[Count Blah]

I think of my iPad as my Netflix machine.

Netflix, simple emailing, gaming, simple forum posting, light app using machine.

 

[alecgold]

Here we go again, al this moaning, complaint, nagging, yelping and wailing.

If you do have an ipad, please download Documents 5. It's free. Then open up that app, in the top left corner is a cog, click on that, then go to the tab network make a new connection and start using the cloud (you have the choice for dropbox, google drive, box, one drive, office 365, yandex ) of your liking or the private cloud (WebDAV, ftp, sftp, SMB) that you think you can better protect.

If you want a stick, buy one, there are several with lightning on one end, USB 3 on the other end.
Also there are WiFi HDD drives that let you store information.
But stop moaning about the lack of connectivity/storage/external storage.

All these naysayers over here. You're not forced into buying an ipad, nor using one, nor keeping it if you have one. Sell it, sell it cheap and make one of us happy.
But until you have a positive or constructive contribution to this forums, please stay away.
If the ipad doesn't offer what you need, go over to the MacBook Pro subforum and be happy there