The new iMac is a lot noisier!

[joema2]

I may be wrong, but I think FCP relies heavily on the GPU for export.

The GPU itself is not generally used much for export. Export is an encoding task which cannot be greatly accelerated by the GPU. However IF the timeline is not fully rendered, that must happen as part of exporting and IF the timeline contains effects, those must be rendered, and IF those effects are GPU-oriented, in that case the GPU will be used. But the GPU is being used for the render phase (and only for certain effects), not the export phase.

If the export codec is H264 which FCPX can leverage Quick Sync on, in that case Quick Sync will be used but that's technically different from the GPU. Quick Sync requires GPU assets such as frame buffer and busses but the GPU itself is not being used.

 

[iPadified]

Anyone have an opinion of the perceived noise level of 2017 i7 iMac compared to a MacBook Pro (i7) under heavy load? I am considering replacing my 2014 MacBook Pro (i7) with an iMac (i7). The MBP fan noise is really disturbing during CPU based raytracing/rendering and Civ V gaming. Hope the iMac is better. Well, I also would appreciate the speed bump with a desktop processor but I do not want a new iMac sounding like my MBP.

Do you think iMac Pro will have lower noise levels than the iMac (i7)?

 

[joema2]

Anyone have an opinion of the perceived noise level of 2017 i7 iMac compared to a MacBook Pro (i7) under heavy load?...The MBP fan noise is really disturbing during CPU based raytracing/rendering and Civ V gaming...

I have a 2015 and 2016 i7 MacBook Pro, also a 2015 and 2017 i7 imac 27. The 2016 MBP is quieter, ie the fan spins up less than the 2015, but it still happens quite a bit.

In general the iMac 27 is much quieter. When it spins you up can definitely hear it but it doesn't happen as often as the MBP, especially the 2015 MBP.

 

[Zirel]

Did you guys see already this video? So not only takes lot more power like I wrote in my previous thread, it's now confirmed it's noisier than before, go to 3:01, just noise 3:40, so frustrating

That video is BS, yet, it makes that noise, obviously, when you push it hard (games, for example), but it’s not that noisy in the real world.

In games, for example, the soundtrack doesn’t let you notice the fans.

Bs crap YouTuber again fishing for views.

 

[nexesnex]

That video is BS, yet, it makes that noise, obviously, when you push it hard (games, for example), but it’s not that noisy in the real world.

In games, for example, the soundtrack doesn’t let you notice the fans.

Bs crap YouTuber again fishing for views.

HAHA.

 

[EugW]

That video is BS, yet, it makes that noise, obviously, when you push it hard (games, for example), but it’s not that noisy in the real world.

In games, for example, the soundtrack doesn’t let you notice the fans.

Bs crap YouTuber again fishing for views.

The video is not BS at all. Real world use which actually taxes the CPU will generate that noise.

I know, as I had one in my house for a week, until I returned it.

For most people it will be OK, but regardless, the noise is real and shows up more often than I liked.

 

[Ph.D.]

Install a fan control app and reduce the rpm to 1000 or a bit lower.

I did that by a semi-complicated means involving editing a .plist and a combination of two apps (per earlier posts in this thread). I've got it set up to idle at low RPMs and for it to ramp up normally when temperatures rise. It works well and makes a remarkable difference in noise levels.

From monitoring temperatures under wide conditions (including with the default settings), it's obvious that the fan speed is set very conservatively for the low-end model at least, likely so that one setting could cover all models including the hottest I7's.

I do wish there was a single simple solution, and I kind of worry that some future OS update will break the existing hack - it's too nice to give up!

 

[EugW]

I did that by a semi-complicated means involving editing a .plist and a combination of two apps (per earlier posts in this thread). I've got it set up to idle at low RPMs and for it to ramp up normally when temperatures rise. It works well and makes a remarkable difference in noise levels.

From monitoring temperatures under wide conditions (including with the default settings), it's obvious that the fan speed is set very conservatively for the low-end model at least, likely so that one setting could cover all models including the hottest I7's.

I do wish there was a single simple solution, and I kind of worry that some future OS update will break the existing hack - it's too nice to give up!

What speeds do you have it set to, for the various temps? I am curious.

Maybe you should publish it as an app!

 

[raz_ski]

I did that by a semi-complicated means involving editing a .plist and a combination of two apps (per earlier posts in this thread). I've got it set up to idle at low RPMs and for it to ramp up normally when temperatures rise. It works well and makes a remarkable difference in noise levels.

From monitoring temperatures under wide conditions (including with the default settings), it's obvious that the fan speed is set very conservatively for the low-end model at least, likely so that one setting could cover all models including the hottest I7's.

I do wish there was a single simple solution, and I kind of worry that some future OS update will break the existing hack - it's too nice to give up!

Hi @Ph.D i'm using the same hack too lower the fan speed a bit. Before on my old iMac i was using hdd fan control. But unfortunately thats not working in this case. I have the same wish of finding a simpler solution / application for this... Can you please share your settings you are using within Macs fan control? Till now it didn't work out for me to find the right settings with slow RPMs when idling but safer RPMs when heating up. Tnx a lot

 

[Ph.D.]

Hi @Ph.D i'm using the same hack too lower the fan speed a bit. Before on my old iMac i was using hdd fan control. But unfortunately thats not working in this case. I have the same wish of finding a simpler solution / application for this... Can you please share your settings you are using within Macs fan control? Till now it didn't work out for me to find the right settings with slow RPMs when idling but safer RPMs when heating up. Tnx a lot

The most important thing is to choose "Sensor-based value" NOT "Constant RPM value". I use the "CPU PECI" as the sensor value, which is a main CPU-reported temperature. Then, choose the temperature value at which the fans will start to rise and the maximum temperature. Use conservative values for these two numbers or you may wind up damaging your computer.

I'm still playing with these settings and so I'd rather not state the ones I've tried. OK, if you are lost, maybe I would suggest 45-50C as a lower temp and maybe 70C as the higher one. At your own risk of course! Perhaps someone has other suggestions?

 

[JasonMovieGuy]

It's interesting to read the comments on this VERY long thread. I'm seeing users who have the i7 claiming it's perfectly fine and that the fan noise is not an issue, and then scroll down to see another user RETURNING their merchandise because they literally couldn't handle the heat. Something's gotta give. It's like reading Prescription pill advice on a health forum- where even though most people say the medicine works, there's that ONE guy who claims it takes him to the ER at 3AM.

I'm sticking to the i7 and crossing my fingers that when my machine arrives on the 20th it works smooth. I plan on editing on iMovie in 1080, and then work my way into FCPX by the winter. My workloads might increase, but isn't that the point of the i7, top tier 27 model? To handle those types of jobs? As someone pointed out earlier, if you're concerned now about the noise then don't get the iMac Pro. With those processors, it will probably sound like a jet taking off. Despite it's dual-fan action.

And also- how are so many of you able to cancel your order and then get a new one so fast? These are configured machines after all. It's taking mine almost 2 weeks to be prepared. So canceling and reordering would take a while. I would assume the process would be annoying and not worth it. I understand everyone has their own preference, but to drop the top processor because of those reasons seems a bit nitpicky. Then there are some that claim they're worried in 3 years the chip will melt, "like my friend's did." Oh wow, that's nuts man.

As for the supposed new iMacs coming out in 2018- is this confirmed? It took 2 years for Apple to update from 2015 to 2017. Now word on the forums is "hold off until next year- because all the iMacs will have different processors, and come standard with SSD." Huh? Even with the iMac Pro being THE thing to talk about in late 2017? Would Apple release new iMacs again that quickly? Perhaps, but it's still speculation. I did hear the Mac Pro is being updated for 2018.

Bottom line - don't read too much into these threads because it seems people get over-obsessed about details that aren't a factor when it comes to what you bought the computer for in the first place.

 

[Foxglove9]

My 2009 i5 iMac (SSD upgraded) handles FCPX 1080 editing and I rarely hear the fans kick in. I can't imagine the i7 580 would be audible for those same tasks.

 

[mollyc]

As for the supposed new iMacs coming out in 2018- is this confirmed? It took 2 years for Apple to update from 2015 to 2017. Now word on the forums is "hold off until next year- because all the iMacs will have different processors, and come standard with SSD." Huh? Even with the iMac Pro being THE thing to talk about in late 2017? Would Apple release new iMacs again that quickly? Perhaps, but it's still speculation. I did hear the Mac Pro is being updated for 2018.

the new iMac coming in December is the iMac Pro. It says "Available December" right on the Mac page of Apple. So I would think that means confirmed.

 

[glazball]

It's interesting to read the comments on this VERY long thread. I'm seeing users who have the i7 claiming it's perfectly fine and that the fan noise is not an issue, and then scroll down to see another user RETURNING their merchandise because they literally couldn't handle the heat. Something's gotta give.

Every user has differing needs and expectations.

I understand everyone has their own preference, but to drop the top processor because of those reasons seems a bit nitpicky. Then there are some that claim they're worried in 3 years the chip will melt, "like my friend's did." Oh wow, that's nuts man.

You may be referring to one of my posts where I mentioned my cousin had trouble when his graphics card "melted loose" (his words). However, his was a 2011 model which Apple actually recalled for repair, but he just barely missed the 3-year recall window when his started acting up. The 2017 iMacs are running much cooler, though anything can happen of course.

As for the supposed new iMacs coming out in 2018- is this confirmed? It took 2 years for Apple to update from 2015 to 2017. Now word on the forums is "hold off until next year- because all the iMacs will have different processors, and come standard with SSD."

Where did you read this? I speculated earlier about future iMacs (regular, not iMac Pro) in this thread, but it was just speculation. Are you reading or skimming these posts?

Bottom line - don't read too much into these threads because it seems people get over-obsessed about details that aren't a factor when it comes to what you bought the computer for in the first place.

Ain't that the truth!

 

[JasonMovieGuy]

the new iMac coming in December is the iMac Pro. It says "Available December" right on the Mac page of Apple. So I would think that means confirmed.

View attachment 708472

I didn't say the iMac Pro wasn't confirmed in December. Re-read what I posted. I said the iMac PRO will be the thing everyone is talking about; some posters have suggested that there are new iMacs coming out in 2018.
[doublepost=1499975822][/doublepost]

Every user has differing needs and expectations.






Where did you read this? I speculated earlier about future iMacs (regular, not iMac Pro) in this thread, but it was just speculation. Are you reading or skimming these posts?

Uh, reading them thank you. More then one poster has mentioned it.

 

[Ph.D.]

As a "guilty" party, I'll just say that "iMac 2018" is sheer speculation on everyone's part.

As for noise, the iMac's have fans that are permanently on, and some have spinning disks. They are not silent, period, and when the fans are on high, there's objectively a fair amount of more noise produced (especially for the I7 models). In the end, people's hearing, environments, tasks, sensitivities or opinions differ on how "silent" or "noisy" they are.

 

[EugW]

And also- how are so many of you able to cancel your order and then get a new one so fast?

What drive did you order? Big delays on the 512 GB SSD orders.

My 1 TB SSD order came in less than a week though. Ordered June 28, received July 4. Shipped from California to Toronto.

As for the supposed new iMacs coming out in 2018- is this confirmed? It took 2 years for Apple to update from 2015 to 2017. Now word on the forums is "hold off until next year- because all the iMacs will have different processors, and come standard with SSD." Huh? Even with the iMac Pro being THE thing to talk about in late 2017? Would Apple release new iMacs again that quickly? Perhaps, but it's still speculation. I did hear the Mac Pro is being updated for 2018..

Nothing's ever guaranteed, but 6-core mainstream i5 and i7 desktop chips are out in late 2017 / early 2018. Apple would be foolish not to build iMacs around these, considering they will likely have similar TDP values to current 4-core chips, albeit not quite as high clocked.

Also, releasing new iMacs every year is the usual for Apple. The missed 2016 release was actually an anomaly for Apple. And in fact, sometimes they have released new Macs less than a year apart. For example, the 2017 MacBook Pros came out only 9 months after the previous model.

As for SSD, my prediction is they will still ship with Fusion drive as the standard iMac configurations. SSD will continue to be CTO.

My 2009 i5 iMac (SSD upgraded) handles FCPX 1080 editing and I rarely hear the fans kick in. I can't imagine the i7 580 would be audible for those same tasks.

The 2017 i7 heats up way, way, way quicker than the i5 in general. It also heats up way quicker than my 2010 i7.

A big reason the i7 heats up so fast is because it's doing way more work. With more work comes more heat generation.

With my i7-7700K I could get the fan going at max in tens of seconds, whereas with my i5-7600 after 10 minutes of the same task the fan stays at minimum.

The i7 was way faster, but also more annoying. In the end my choice was slower and less annoying.
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As a "guilty" party, I'll just say that "iMac 2018" is sheer speculation on everyone's part.

As for noise, the iMac's have fans that are permanently on, and some have spinning disks. They are not silent, period, and when the fans are on high, there's objectively a fair amount of more noise produced (especially for the I7 models). In the end, people's hearing, environments, tasks, sensitivities or opinions differ on how "silent" or "noisy" they are.

Educated speculation. We already know that as of this year (or at the latest, early next year), 6-core CPUs are mainstream.

There are the higher end mainstream i5 and mainstream i7 Coffee Lake parts.

 

[JasonMovieGuy]

What drive did you order? Big delays on the 512 GB SSD orders.

My 1 TB SSD order came in less than a week though. Ordered June 28, received July 4. Shipped from California to Toronto.


Nothing's ever guaranteed, but 6-core mainstream i5 and i7 desktop chips are out in late 2017 / early 2018. Apple would be foolish not to build iMacs around these, considering they will likely have similar TDP values to current 4-core chips, albeit not quite as high clocked.

Also, releasing new iMacs every year is the usual for Apple. The missed 2016 release was actually an anomaly for Apple. And in fact, sometimes they have released new Macs less than a year apart. For example, the 2017 MacBook Pros came out only 9 months after the previous model.

As for SSD, my prediction is they will still ship with Fusion drive as the standard iMac configurations. SSD will continue to be CTO.


The 2017 i7 heats up way, way, way quicker than the i5 in general. It also heats up way quicker than my 2010 i7.

A big reason the i7 heats up so fast is because it's doing way more work. With more work comes more heat generation.

With my i7-7700K I could get the fan going at max in tens of seconds, whereas with my i5-7600 after 10 minutes of the same task the fan stays at minimum.

The i7 was way faster, but also more annoying. In the end my choice was slower and less annoying.

So are you saying the i7 Processor is going to have the fans and heat blazing even with smaller tasks? Or just heavy workloads? I assume when I export they will kick in, but as I stated earlier- I WANT faster export times for my videos. That was one of the main reasons I got it. However, when I'm just browsing YouTube or watching streamed videos- I hope the fans don't start up, or heat issues occur.

I ordered the 1TB SSD. It's due July 20th. In-Store Pickup.

 

[EugW]

So are you saying the i7 Processor is going to have the fans and heat blazing even with smaller tasks? Or just heavy workloads? I assume when I export they will kick in, but as I stated earlier- I WANT faster export times for my videos. That was one of the main reasons I got it. However, when I'm just browsing YouTube or watching streamed videos- I hope the fans don't start up, or heat issues occur.

I ordered the 1TB SSD. It's due July 20th. In-Store Pickup.

Moderate tasks, the i7 might cause moderate increases in fan noise, but it won't be at max.

Export, the fans rush to max very, very quickly. I thought I wanted faster export times too, and I do, but I didn't like the noise.

As for streamed YouTube videos, it depends. For 1440p h.264 (Safari) there would be very little CPU activity, since it's all done in QuickSync or whatever. For 4K VP9 (Chrome), there would be moderate CPU activity, but I don't know how high the fans would go. For 8K VP9 (Chrome), I'm pretty sure the fans would be quite noticeable, maybe near max. But then again, 8K VP9 videos usually wouldn't even play properly on the i5 models, but might play properly or close to properly on the i7.

 

[joema2]

So are you saying the i7 Processor is going to have the fans and heat blazing even with smaller tasks? Or just heavy workloads? I assume when I export they will kick in, but as I stated earlier- I WANT faster export times for my videos. That was one of the main reasons I got it. However, when I'm just browsing YouTube or watching streamed videos- I hope the fans don't start up, or heat issues occur....

Normally that should not happen. There was a case posted here of fans spinning up "just watching a Youtube video" but it was a specialized 8k video encoded with VP9 that Safari won't even play at 4k or 8k, only Chrome. Since Chrome does not support Quick Sync this forced the iMac to use software decoding of an 8k datastream which was highly CPU-intensive. It is likely that High Sierra on a Kaby Lake or later CPU will support the enhanced Quick Sync that allows H265, VP9 and AV1 hardware-accelerated encode/decode. This means that Safari on High Sierra will probably be much more efficient when streaming H265 or Google's VP9 codec.

 

[user1234]

Oh great. Now you're making me second guess my choice to go with the i7 again

Want the performance, but very tired of listening to my rMBP fans. Now I'm thinking maybe cancel and get the i5 + 1 TB SSD instead. Will be here faster and will be quieter, but may not do what I want it to do for as long as I want it to do it.

 

[JasonMovieGuy]

Moderate tasks, the i7 might cause moderate increases in fan noise, but it won't be at max.

Export, the fans rush to max very, very quickly. I thought I wanted faster export times too, and I do, but I didn't like the noise.

As for streamed YouTube videos, it depends. For 1440p h.264 (Safari) there would be very little CPU activity, since it's all done in QuickSync or whatever. For 4K VP9 (Chrome), there would be moderate CPU activity, but I don't know how high the fans would go. For 8K VP9 (Chrome), I'm pretty sure the fans would be quite noticeable, maybe near max. But then again, 8K VP9 videos usually wouldn't even play properly on the i5 models, but might play properly or close to properly on the i7.

Ugh this is not good to hear. I prefer a quiet machine too for the most part. I wonder why some are saying they don't hear the sounds as much as others? I know people are sensitive to noise in different ways, but the way you're describing it, it sounds like it's going to very noticeable. I'm surprised Apple hasn't addressed this issue, or maybe they have and I missed the memo.

 

[user1234]

Ugh this is not good to hear. I prefer a quiet machine too for the most part. I wonder why some are saying they don't hear the sounds as much as others? I know people are sensitive to noise in different ways, but the way you're describing it, it sounds like it's going to very noticeable.

It could be down to ambient temperature. I notice that my rMBP is way more noisy during summer when it's hot. Fans spin up in seconds and stay at full speed when I do moderately heavy stuff, but in the winter when ambient is 5-7°C less, it takes more to get the fans going.

 

[JasonMovieGuy]

Normally that should not happen. There was a case posted here of fans spinning up "just watching a Youtube video" but it was a specialized 8k video encoded with VP9 that Safari won't even play at 4k or 8k, only Chrome. Since Chrome does not support Quick Sync this forced the iMac to use software decoding of an 8k datastream which was highly CPU-intensive. It is likely that High Sierra on a Kaby Lake or later CPU will support the enhanced Quick Sync that allows H265, VP9 and AV1 hardware-accelerated encode/decode. This means that Safari on High Sierra will probably be much more efficient when streaming H265 or Google's VP9 codec.

Do you suggest I don't download Chrome as a browser for the new iMac and just stick to Safari since the former doesn't support Quick Sync?

 

[joema2]

Ugh this is not good to hear. I prefer a quiet machine too for the most part. I wonder why some are saying they don't hear the sounds as much as others? I know people are sensitive to noise in different ways, but the way you're describing it, it sounds like it's going to very noticeable.

One reason is because people have their computers in widely different environments. There are lots of people who complain about the supposedly-loud noise from a Fusion Drive, or even noise from an *idle* cooling fan in an SSD iMac.

Those people would likely not be satisfied with the sound from a big PC tower under high CPU/GPU stress, even if it had Noctua fans and special acoustic treatment. That type of noise sensitivity requires a specially built quiet PC. Those are available but that's a niche market segment. That is not the market segment the iMac 27 is designed for.

Another reason people complain about iMac 27 noise is they may have only the iMac 27 in their room, with no external spinning drives, certainly no drive arrays, and possibly a very quiet HVAC system. If you're a video editor you typically have one or more spinning drive arrays because SSD arrays are so expensive. The sound of all that equipment blends together so the iMac noise is less obvious.

There's no question if the 2017 iMac 27 is under heavy CPU stress you will hear the fan. But it's overall similar to the 2015 and 2014 imac 27. My 2017 iMac i7 seems to spin up pretty quickly but (esp. on FCPX) it's doing about 200% more work in the same time.
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Do you suggest I don't download Chrome as a browser for the new iMac and just stick to Safari since the former doesn't support Quick Sync?

We don't know exactly which browser supports what right now -- only that Chrome does not use Quick Sync for H265 or VP9. That is obvious from looking at the CPU graphs. It seems likely when High Sierra is released that Safari, FCPX, Compressor and maybe iMovie will use Quick Sync for H265 (on Kaby Lake or later CPUs). This will produce much higher encode/decode performance, lower CPU loads and a quieter fan. That will ship sometime this fall.