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Apple can keep these Intel Macs around until 2022, and then with Apple Care 3-year support contracts, these machines will be good until at least 2025.

Apple's published support policy says:

"Owners of iPhone, iPad, iPod, Mac, or Apple TV products may obtain service and parts from Apple service providers, including Apple Retail Stores and Independent Repair Providers, for a minimum of 5 years from when Apple last distributed the product for sale."

 
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Apple's published support policy says:

"Owners of iPhone, iPad, iPod, Mac, or Apple TV products may obtain service and parts from Apple service providers, including Apple Retail Stores and Independent Repair Providers, for a minimum of 5 years from when Apple last distributed the product for sale."
Yeah, good point. However, it seems many of these companies regularly upgrade when Apple Care expires. But that paid repair option is a good backup in case they need it.
 
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Though disappointed, I’m almost relieved that the new Mini wasn’t announced. In my eye, the new chips, though awesome, are still M1 variants meant for smaller enclosure, less cooling and power restrained Mobile applications, ie Laptops. Desktop machines, including the Mini, should be getting allot more in the way of power and capability. Even an M1 Max powered Mini is, well, just a desktop device with a laptop chip. Just doesn’t seem right. I’d expect the new desktop machines to have more appropriate M2 power and capability.
 
Though disappointed, I’m almost relieved that the new Mini wasn’t announced. In my eye, the new chips, though awesome, are still M1 variants meant for smaller enclosure, less cooling and power restrained Mobile applications, ie Laptops. Desktop machines, including the Mini, should be getting allot more in the way of power and capability. Even an M1 Max powered Mini is, well, just a desktop device with a laptop chip. Just doesn’t seem right. I’d expect the new desktop machines to have more appropriate M2 power and capability.
Boundaries between desktop class cpu and mobile cpu are blurred... these AS things are fast and much less power hungry (less heat)... besides Apple need this kind of ratio speed/heat in almost the totality of his lineup (the exception being the MacPro)
 
Sorry, I'm not sure if I'm misreading the tone, but I think we're saying the same things with respect to the M1 and Intels co-existing as the Space Grey ones had been marked out as "Pro" and the M1 wouldn't fill that need. However, I don't think Apple would care about people needing 32 bit as they'd been sign-posting it for a long time.

I'd be interested to see if any of the Intel offerings remain on the main store when they have Apple Silicon offerings at every level. I think we'll see the the Pro and Max chips in the mini, but there's unlikely to be any performance differences from the MBPs (maybe with the exception of thermals). If Jade 2 and 4C-Die leaks are true, they're likely bound for the Mac Pro or iMac Pro, although I'd love to see them in a smaller box.

So far we have seen all & any Intel models disappear from the Apple Store website when new Apple silicon models are announced / available.

There are three Intel Macs still hanging around:
21.5" iMac (7th Gen Intel)
27" iMac (10th Gen Intel)
"High-end" Mac mini (8th Gen Intel)
Mac Pro (Xeon Intel)

The 21.5" iMac seems to be hanging around because it is the "Educational" model, but it should disappear sometime soon?

The 27" iMac is rumored to be replaced Spring 2022, and I would hope the Intel Mac mini would also see a new ASi model then as well.

The 2019 Intel Mac Pro may or may not have an Intel refresh; Apple might do this to extend the value for the shops using these Xeon Mac Pros (and allow a bit more "transition time" to those with production pipelines that cannot immediately jump into ASi powered models due to software issues?

Though disappointed, I’m almost relieved that the new Mini wasn’t announced. In my eye, the new chips, though awesome, are still M1 variants meant for smaller enclosure, less cooling and power restrained Mobile applications, ie Laptops. Desktop machines, including the Mini, should be getting allot more in the way of power and capability. Even an M1 Max powered Mini is, well, just a desktop device with a laptop chip. Just doesn’t seem right. I’d expect the new desktop machines to have more appropriate M2 power and capability.

M2 is not going to be more powerful than the M1 Pro / M1 Max.

The Mn series SoCs are the entry-level SoCs.

The Mn Pro / Mn Max series SoCs are the mid-level SoCs.

The Mn Max Duo / Mn Max Quadro SiPs (multiple SoCs on a Package) are the high-end offerings.

Apple does not need to offer a plethora of silicon; with the current world situation / supply constraints they are best served to use a minimal variety of chips to cover the Mac offerings.

Apple silicon is all about lower power usage & higher efficiency, all about the performance per watt!
 
With Finnish VAT, going from 16->32 Gb costs almost 30€ / Gb.
Is this a new record in IT industry?
How much other brands suck on RAM?
Well it is fancy DDR5, but yeah it probably has a huge markup as usual.
 
Well it is fancy DDR5, but yeah it probably has a huge markup as usual.
How much more Apple can raise these prices?
+8Gb of soldered RAM costed $100 in 2016.
So they have doubled the apple tax on RAM.
DDR4 would be fast enough for me. (Same thing of course with too fast ssd, don't need it. Just need a laptop to run macos.)
 
I don't think you will find any prebuilt computer that lets you chose RAM or SSD speed. So, whether you need it or not, you'll get DDR5 and the cost associated with it.
 
I don't think you will find any prebuilt computer that lets you chose RAM or SSD speed. So, whether you need it or not, you'll get DDR5 and the cost associated with it.
Come again?
Even most new laptops have ram in slots and ssd removable.
Not even to talk about desktops...
Why don't you check eg. HP and Dell first?
 
Come again?
Even most new laptops have ram in slots and ssd removable.
Not even to talk about desktops...
Why don't you check eg. HP and Dell first?
Ah, so I could insert cheap DDR4 instead of expensive DDR5? Or better yet, configure it to be built for me using DDR4 instead of DDR5?
Because that is what the OP wanted.
 
So far we have seen all & any Intel models disappear from the Apple Store website when new Apple silicon models are announced / available.

There are three Intel Macs still hanging around:
21.5" iMac (7th Gen Intel)

The 21.5" iMac seems to be hanging around because it is the "Educational" model, but it should disappear sometime soon?
... and it's gone:
 
... and it's gone:

Maybe some cut off date Apple had to wait for, contract-wise, before killing the 21.5" Intel iMac; the WiFi-only M1-powered 24" iMac could be the new "EDU model"...?
 
Ah, so I could insert cheap DDR4 instead of expensive DDR5? Or better yet, configure it to be built for me using DDR4 instead of DDR5?
Because that is what the OP wanted.
OP?
You mean in 2013?

I'd buy instantly an apple product with ddr4 ram and replaceable storage.
Like so very many of us.
My mini2018 has 4GB from Apple and 16GB from someone else.
And that's exactly why Apple likes ddr5.

Right now it is so damn hard to decide if I'd need that +16Gb of that world's most expensive ram in new new M1pro...
 
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So far we have seen all & any Intel models disappear from the Apple Store website when new Apple silicon models are announced / available.

There are three Intel Macs still hanging around:
21.5" iMac (7th Gen Intel)
27" iMac (10th Gen Intel)
"High-end" Mac mini (8th Gen Intel)
Mac Pro (Xeon Intel)

The 21.5" iMac seems to be hanging around because it is the "Educational" model, but it should disappear sometime soon?

The 27" iMac is rumored to be replaced Spring 2022, and I would hope the Intel Mac mini would also see a new ASi model then as well.

The 2019 Intel Mac Pro may or may not have an Intel refresh; Apple might do this to extend the value for the shops using these Xeon Mac Pros (and allow a bit more "transition time" to those with production pipelines that cannot immediately jump into ASi powered models due to software issues?

I think you're probably right, my only thought was if the Mac Pro may live on with an Intel processor for an extra generation. However, I'm not really too familiar with the workflows and tools of people who need that kind of power on their desk as I'm not into video/graphics work.

From a nerd perspective, I'm just keen to see how much power they can fit in a mini chassis without turning it into a cooking surface. In the real world, I'm just keen to have something small, with low idle power usage and 32gb+ of RAM for VMs and docker.

As a dev, don't need the kind of power of the Mac Pro, as long as there are some decent servers in the background to do the heavy lifting, and those are usually running Linux anyway.
 
OP?
You mean in 2013?

I'd buy instantly an apple product with ddr4 ram and replaceable storage.
Like so very many of us.
My mini2018 has 4GB from Apple and 16GB from someone else.
And that's exactly why Apple likes ddr5.

Right now it is so damn hard to decide if I'd need that +16Gb of that world's most expensive ram in new new M1pro...
Yes, that’s a real pain in the ass. Since going from 8GB to 16GB adds a whopping €230,- to my M1 mini order. And all of a sudden my (initially) €799,- low budget machine is not so low budget anymore.

It’s tough to decide because I’ve seen reviews that indicate that 8GB could be enough for my use-case but others feel it comes up a bit short. And it’s not like you can always add another 8GB later when you find out that’s what you need.
 
OP?
You mean in 2013?

I'd buy instantly an apple product with ddr4 ram and replaceable storage.
Like so very many of us.
My mini2018 has 4GB from Apple and 16GB from someone else.
And that's exactly why Apple likes ddr5.

Right now it is so damn hard to decide if I'd need that +16Gb of that world's most expensive ram in new new M1pro...
I mean you.
You said (at least that’s how it reads) you want to buy a device that’s offered with DDR5 configured with DDR4.
I said, that’s something you won’t find anywhere.

Whether you or me like it isn‘t the point.
 
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Ah, so I could insert cheap DDR4 instead of expensive DDR5? Or better yet, configure it to be built for me using DDR4 instead of DDR5?
Because that is what the OP wanted.
In a word no. The reason as a video on the new DDR5 shows they are physically different from the DDR4. Here is a photo showing how different they are (top one is the new DDR5). Note the differences in the keys (notches). Also the DDR5 has the PMIC on it eliminating the need for one on the motherboard.
DDRx.jpg
 
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In a word no. The reason as a video on the new DDR5 shows they are physically different from the DDR4. Here is a photo showing how different they are (top one is the new DDR5). Note the differences in the keys (notches). Also the DDR5 has the PMIC on it eliminating the need for one on the motherboard.
View attachment 1902357
Yeah, that’s my whole point. But thanks for explaining it much better than I did.
 
Yes, that’s a real pain in the ass. Since going from 8GB to 16GB adds a whopping €230,- to my M1 mini order. And all of a sudden my (initially) €799,- low budget machine is not so low budget anymore.

It’s tough to decide because I’ve seen reviews that indicate that 8GB could be enough for my use-case but others feel it comes up a bit short. And it’s not like you can always add another 8GB later when you find out that’s what you need.
Remember that isn't off the shelf RAM but RAM that is actually part of the M1 SoC itself. Also it is beating the pants off in terms of performance/watt off intel systems costing 3x to 4x. As the old adage goes you get what you pay for.

People keep comparing Macs to PC on upfront costs alone and that is, IMHO, the poorest comparison you can make. Even back in the 68x days Mac had a longer usable "as its" lifespan than PCs (2 to 3 years longer even back then) with less IT issues. In 2019, IBM showed that workers were more productive with Macs than PCs.

"To add to these benefits, Previn noted that within IBM, seven engineers support 200,000 macOS devices versus the 20 engineers required to support 200,000 Windows devices. That is a 186% increase in support engineering needed for Windows devices."

"It can be tempting to stop the conversation here and simply say “our organization can’t afford Mac.” However, a deeper study of all the essential software required for security and deployments demonstrates how the uptick in cost for Mac is something of a mirage."

"Any organization serious about managing and securing Windows will need to add additional software and tools to the cost of their cheap PC, as opposed to having those features built into the operating system with Mac. Finally, when you add on the cost of management tools and support, the total cost of ownership gap can potentially be huge for an organization. In fact, IBM found they saved between $273 - $543 per Mac they deployed compared to PCs."

Remember these numbers are coming from IBM - the company that comes to mind when you say "PC". If IBM of all people were going Mac in 2019 that should tell you something. The M1 makes that even more lopsided thanks as it out performs any PC in its perforce/watt class.

ARM dominates the mobile market and Apple showed that desktop ARM was viable from a performed POV and now everybody and their brother (except for Intel) is expanding into ARM for desktop.
 
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Remember that isn't off the shelf RAM but RAM that is actually part of the M1 SoC itself. Also it is beating the pants off in terms of performance/watt off intel systems costing 3x to 4x. As the old adage goes you get what you pay for.

People keep comparing Macs to PC on upfront costs alone and that is, IMHO, the poorest comparison you can make. Even back in the 68x days Mac had a longer usable "as its" lifespan than PCs (2 to 3 years longer even back then) with less IT issues. In 2019, IBM showed that workers were more productive with Macs than PCs.

"To add to these benefits, Previn noted that within IBM, seven engineers support 200,000 macOS devices versus the 20 engineers required to support 200,000 Windows devices. That is a 186% increase in support engineering needed for Windows devices."

"It can be tempting to stop the conversation here and simply say “our organization can’t afford Mac.” However, a deeper study of all the essential software required for security and deployments demonstrates how the uptick in cost for Mac is something of a mirage."

"Any organization serious about managing and securing Windows will need to add additional software and tools to the cost of their cheap PC, as opposed to having those features built into the operating system with Mac. Finally, when you add on the cost of management tools and support, the total cost of ownership gap can potentially be huge for an organization. In fact, IBM found they saved between $273 - $543 per Mac they deployed compared to PCs."

Remember these numbers are coming from IBM - the company that comes to mind when you say "PC". If IBM of all people were going Mac in 2019 that should tell you something. The M1 makes that even more lopsided thanks as it out performs any PC in its perforce/watt class.

ARM dominates the mobile market and Apple showed that desktop ARM was viable from a performed POV and now everybody and their brother (except for Intel) is expanding into ARM for desktop.
I was not making the comparison to PC’s at all actually. I was merely stating that it’s hard to gauge how much of this RAM will be enough for my personal workflow. So just to err on the safe side (even if in hindsight it turns out to be overkill) it would turn a €799,- budget solution into a €1029,- one. That is not unsubstantial. That is almost 29% of the cost of the entry model added just to add 8GB of RAM to err on the safe side.
 
I think this guy's prediction is probably spot on:

Compared to the M1, we’ll probably see the M2 increase in CPU performance to be about 15 percent with a bigger jump in GPU performance. The M1 Pro, with its eight or 10 CPU cores (two efficiency cores, the rest are performance cores), boasts multi-core CPU performance that’s about 70 percent better than the M1, so even with a nice increase, the M2 will still be significantly slower overall than the M1 Pro.
 
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