So I'm not the only one that dropped The Silmarillion? I latched on to the Terry Brooks books and they were so good...
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The new Mac mini is almost certainly coming
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So I'm not the only one that dropped The Silmarillion? I latched on to the Terry Brooks books and they were so good...
Isn't there an issue where the M2 has 8/16/24Gb options so the M2 Pro could offer 16/32/48Gb options depending on the configuration of the RAM? I'm assuming part of the issue is down to using 2 RAM 'slots' on the motherboard and the 24Gb option is filled used 2x 12Gb LPDDR5 'sticks' - not sure if there is an advantage of dual channels? 12Gb sticks are seen as being pricey even though Apple appear to be pricing them up linearly in terms of upgrade (although we all know they do add a tidy profit margin on).
And I'm still seeing people trying to 'customise' their dream Mac mini from the Apple parts bin, M2 Pro CPU with M2 RAM tiers and the port flexibility of an M1 Max (4 Thunderbolt ports minimum) - does that work?
The M2 has a 24Gb RAM option which for me satisfies (at a budget price) the kind of people who would have gone for an M1 Pro double binned CPU.
M2 is marginally faster at single core
M2 is marginally slower at Multi core
M2 can go up to 24Gb RAM whereas M1 Pro would have to pay for 32Gb after 16Gb.
M2 has a slightly more advanced media engine for video encodes/decodes
M2 only allows 2 Thunderbolt ports (vs at least 3 with M1 Pro)
If you're comparing M2 with a fictional double binned M2 Pro the difference becomes even slighter:
M2 can go up to 24Gb RAM whereas M2 Pro would probably go higher than that.
M2 is marginally slower at Multi core
M2 only allows 2 Thunderbolt ports (vs at least 3 with M2 Pro)
I honestly think there's no great impetus for Apple to need to put any flavour of M2 Pro in the mini (even less so when you consider a double binned variant loses a solid chunk of performance to get anywhere near the mini in price).
People moaning about lack of ports on the Mac mini line in my opinion won't amount to that many sales on a line that doesn't sell that many in the first place - and besides which there's now a Mac Studio with up to 6 thunderbolt ports and that has an M1 Max.
The current on-sale M1 outperforms all on-sale Intel Minis in benchmarks I believe - the M2 just stretches that lead - obviously the M1 Pro would be overkill.
Seems to me that the Intel Mini remains on sale because people still want to buy Intel Macs for software legacy reasons (eg music stuff where plug-ins haven't been converted to native yet).
There's always been a big gap between the Mini and the Mac Pro - it's just that the gap has been a lot bigger in recent years since the trash can pro ($2499 list when launched if I recall) and the subsequent 2019 Mac Pro went on sale for lots more than that.
The Mac Studio closes the gap with a very reasonable $1999 model that isn't poverty spec. 32Gb of RAM is quite generous.
Yes there is a subtle upsell going on but the only way an M2 Pro exists in a Mini platform is if it uses the current aged case and PSU which is now over-engineered for Intel CPUs and contains wifi-bluetooth radio issues. Remember that mooted redesigns go smaller and lighter which only favours sticking solely with M2.
There's evidence that the 14" MacBook Pro throttles earlier with the M1 Max by the way - the 16" manages the M1 Max quite well. I won't cite the various Youtube videos that show this but they do exist.
See my earlier posts (and others) where we estimate that a 16/512 M2 Pro Mini would cost $1299 ($200 uplift over the 16/512 M1 model). Yes, that's in between the M1 Mini and M1 Max Studio - but absolutely nobody has addressed my simple sums that show that any moderate BTO upgrades on this Frankenstein mini make it more expensive than the Studio which has up to 6 Thunderbolt Ports and a superior cooling solution.
It just comes down to parts availability and how Apple would decide to configure the boards from a marketing point of view to maximize profit.
A 48 GB M2 Pro Mac mini simply wouldn't sell very well, esp. if it's a binned M2 Pro part, but a 24 GB M2 Pro GB Mac mini would sell quite well. Furthermore, probably a lot of those people getting that 24 GB M2 Pro Mac mini are ones who would not even consider a Mac Studio. IOW, given the choice between a 24 GB M2 non-Pro Mac mini for $1299 and a 32 GB M2 Max Mac Studio for $1999, these people would just buy the Mac mini and save the $700 bucks. But give them an option to spend another $200 to get a 24 GB M2 Pro Mac mini for $1499, and a lot of them would do that.
When a base machine is already reasonably adequate, it's still easy to justify spending 15% more to get a performance boost. It's a lot harder to justify spending 54% more to get a performance boost, even if that boost is bigger.
I guess I'm going to wait to see what November holds. If we hear nothing, then I'll get a second M1 mini and just use the two together. If there is an M2 mini (I don't expect an M2 Pro this year), then I'll probably get that with 16 GB of RAM and use it with the M1. If there are huge sales on the M1, then I might go with M1. It's hard to plan when you can only speculate and I need a solution by the end of the year.
Considering Windows on Arm runs nearly twice as fast on an M1 (Apple’s M1 Chip Can Run Windows 10 Two Times Faster than On Surface Pro X) via QEMU (which is not known for being very efficient) that ain't that much of a deal. Also, even Linus states that a common mistake in the PC world is to needlessly get more RAM than you really need. If your solution is to throw RAM at it than either it is unoptimized code or you have no idea what you are doing.
In a similar situation myself. Just waiting to see what Apple do with the Mini. Can't wait much longer because I am on Catalina and can't upgrade, and security updates are no longer being released. So will be forced to make a choice by end Nov at the latest.
Already passed up on some good M1 Minis in the refurb store. Were some tempting M1 Airs too.
Same plan I have, although I did update my late 2012 27 iMac to Ventura yesterday. Will see how that works out. Studio is just overkill for our use.
How are your initial results with Ventura on that machine? I stuck with the officially supported 10.13 High Sierra on my 2010 iMac. Fortunately it still runs very well for a secondary machine, after I installed an SSD into it. In terms of speed it feels like a modern machine. It also feels noticeably faster than my 2014 Mac mini... cuz it is.
Geekbench 5:
2014 Mac mini Core i5-4278U 2.6 GHz - 750/1650
2010 27" iMac Core i7-870 2.93 GHz - 600/2200
Meanwhile, here's the M2: 1940/9000
Yeah, 15-18% off of a 2 year-old machine doesn't really entice me either.
BTW, the 7 month old Mac Studios are 10% off at the refurb store. However, that's no better than the pricing I'd get on the education store.
Hypothetical education pricing:
CA$1729 (US$1277) - Mac mini M2 24 GB / 1 TB
CA$1979 (US$1462) - Mac mini M2 Pro 24 GB / 1 TB
CA$2474 (US$1827) - Mac Studio M1 Max 32 GB / 1 TB
Given these choices, I might get the M2 Pro. If the M2 Pro were not available, I'd get the M2.
How are your initial results with Ventura on that machine? I stuck with the officially supported 10.13 High Sierra on my 2010 iMac. Fortunately it still runs very well for a secondary machine, after I installed an SSD into it. In terms of speed it feels like a modern machine. It also feels noticeably faster than my 2014 Mac mini... cuz it is.
Geekbench 5:
2014 Mac mini Core i5-4278U 2.6 GHz - 750/1650
2010 27" iMac Core i7-870 2.93 GHz - 600/2200
Meanwhile, here's the M2: 1940/9000
Yeah, 15-18% off of a 2 year-old machine doesn't really entice me either.
BTW, the 7 month old Mac Studios are 10% off at the refurb store. However, that's no better than the pricing I'd get on the education store.
Hypothetical education pricing:
CA$1729 (US$1277) - Mac mini M2 24 GB / 1 TB
CA$1979 (US$1462) - Mac mini M2 Pro 24 GB / 1 TB
CA$2474 (US$1827) - Mac Studio M1 Max 32 GB / 1 TB
Given these choices, I might get the M2 Pro. If the M2 Pro were not available, I'd get the M2.
A M2 Pro-powered Mac mini, with 24GB RAM & 1TB SSD, for US$1500...?
Yes, please...!
Yes, but remember those are education prices. It's roughly 10% off retail IIRC.
EDIT:
My numbers are a little off, but upon recalculation it's still close to last time:
me said:
Education:
CA$1779 (US$1312) - Mac mini M2 24 GB / 1 TB
CA$2004 (US$1478) - Mac mini M2 Pro 24 GB / 1 TB
CA$2474 (US$1827) - Mac Studio M1 Max 32 GB / 1 TB
Retail:
CA$1899 (US$1401) - Mac mini M2 24 GB / 1 TB
CA$2149 (US$1585) - Mac mini M2 Pro 24 GB / 1 TB
CA$2749 (US$2028) - Mac Studio M1 Max 32 GB / 1 TB
Unfortunately, I don't think M2 Pro will be released.
If not released, I'd get the M2 24 GB / 1 TB.However, I forgot they will probably raise prices in Canada, so there's that. Let's increase the prices CA$50 across the board.
Education:
CA$1829 (US$1350) - Mac mini M2 24 GB / 1 TB
CA$2054 (US$1516) - Mac mini M2 Pro 24 GB / 1 TB
CA$2524 (US$1885) - Mac Studio M1 Max 32 GB / 1 TB
Retail:
CA$1949 (US$1438) - Mac mini M2 24 GB / 1 TB
CA$2199 (US$1623) - Mac mini M2 Pro 24 GB / 1 TB
CA$2799 (US$2066) - Mac Studio M1 Max 32 GB / 1 TB
So realistically, if we add another little price cushion on top of that, US$1400 edu for M2 24 GB / 1 TB is possible.
And if they release the M2 Pro Mac mini, US$1550 edu for M2 Pro 24 GB / 1 TB is also possible (in Canada).
Last edited:
I think we will see prices in Canada jump 8-10% based on what we saw with the iPad. I suspect the studio will also jump in price when the new Mini announced.Yes, but remember those are education prices. It's roughly 10% off retail IIRC.
EDIT:
My numbers are a little off, but upon recalculation it's still close to last time:
Education:
CA$1779 (US$1312) - Mac mini M2 24 GB / 1 TB
CA$2004 (US$1478) - Mac mini M2 Pro 24 GB / 1 TB
CA$2474 (US$1827) - Mac Studio M1 Max 32 GB / 1 TB
Retail:
CA$1899 (US$1401) - Mac mini M2 24 GB / 1 TB
CA$2149 (US$1585) - Mac mini M2 Pro 24 GB / 1 TB
CA$2749 (US$2028) - Mac Studio M1 Max 32 GB / 1 TB
Unfortunately, I don't think M2 Pro will be released.
However, I forgot they will probably raise prices in Canada, so there's that. Let's increase the prices CA$50 across the board.
Education:
CA$1829 (US$1350) - Mac mini M2 24 GB / 1 TB
CA$2054 (US$1516) - Mac mini M2 Pro 24 GB / 1 TB
CA$2524 (US$1885) - Mac Studio M1 Max 32 GB / 1 TB
Retail:
CA$1949 (US$1438) - Mac mini M2 24 GB / 1 TB
CA$2199 (US$1623) - Mac mini M2 Pro 24 GB / 1 TB
CA$2799 (US$2066) - Mac Studio M1 Max 32 GB / 1 TB
So realistically, if we add another little price cushion on top of that, US$1400 edu for M2 24 GB / 1 TB is possible.
And if they release the M2 Pro Mac mini, US$1550 edu for M2 Pro 24 GB / 1 TB is also possible (in Canada).
That is what makes the decision difficult. I may end up ordering an existing M1 Studio just before the M2 mini announcement, just in case there is no Mini Pro. I can always return the Studio unopened but at least I will have locked in the lower price.
Well, the 9th gen iPad increased 4.7%, and the 10th gen iPad is actually cheaper in Canada than it is in the US.
So, there's hope it won't increase by 10%.
This is the point I've been talking about for weeks now, as Apple refreshes their lines their fixed Mac prices will be increasing round the world. The only secondary point is what price Apple sets for refurbs because they may look stunningly good value compared to what the new line of largely M2 based stuff looks like.
I would suggest that Apple will keep all the desktop machines back until they can all launch at once with the new Mac Pro.
One thing I had not considered was what I believe Apple will call the iMac Pro - a 27" replacement which is what I think Apple will be saving the M2 Pro and M2 Max to power.
The existence of the Studio makes that the likely budget choice but if Apple really want to continue with the AIO lineup that's where I think they would put an M2 Pro. With a 27" miniLED screen.
If the Canadian Dollar is not weakening significantly then there may be less to panic about but Apple One as a service got a serious price increase in the UK - £2-3 up in each tier per month.
Good point. Refurbished M1 Macs vs the new M2 Macs.... Price difference could be substantial.
I could see it being called iMac Pro, with the 'iMac' name remaining on the 24in M1/M2 iMac. Price vs an M2 Max Studio will be interesting to see as well.
Apple are making their services even less appealing with those price rises. Not something I will lose sleep over, that's for sure. But, you're right, the new Macs are going to be outrageously expensive in the UK (and Europe). I expect what I call the minimum useable M2 mini configuration (16GB RAM/512GB SSD) could quite easily reach £1,599, if you take the current price and multiply it from anywhere between 1.2x and 1.3x. When you think that is the entry level Mac, with no monitor, keyboard or mouse, it is rather crazy. But let's wait and see. I'm preparing for the worst.
I wonder what the earning call meant. Apple said there will be less sales this quarter year-over-year, because last year there were the awesome new MacBook Pros, and this year there won't be the same wow factor (I'm paraphrasing).
However I wasn't sure if that meant there will be NO new Macs this quarter, of if there will only be minor refreshes. We can hope for the latter I guess, but I'm thinking they mean the former.
However I wasn't sure if that meant there will be NO new Macs this quarter, of if there will only be minor refreshes. We can hope for the latter I guess, but I'm thinking they mean the former.
New Macs won’t ship until December so the impact on the qtr would be negligible anyways
I have only seen the headline of the quarterly call where this pull quote comes from but it stands to reason that the performance jump from M1 to M2 is not going to be as stunning as Intel to M1.
A CPU refresh is by its nature going to be less exciting as a whole new architecture married to (in some cases) new formats and design language leading to some jaw dropping performance numbers driven by the single core scores, media engine, and energy efficiency.
The M3 refresh is likely to be the one we can expect real world improvements - a process shrink will bring either greater peformance for the same battery life or flat out better battery life (or something in between).
The world economy going into recession, coupled by foreign exchange challenges is going to be a double whammy for sure - you'd have to be pretty serious to buy brand new Apple goods that flat out cost around 10% more than they did last year in Europe so I am in no way surprised that Apple are predicting a drop in sales next year.
Let's be fair, the Mac Studio M2 Max will probably rise to at least £2199 starting price so the gap between that and a Mini will remain consistent.
By now people who have calculated based on the evidence of MacBook Pro M2 price increases will be getting enough information in to guesstimate what Apple may price up future Macs at.
Bear in mind the latest price increases have seen Apple One go up by over 10% in the UK (obviously Apple will round the price up) your 16/512 Mac spec (costing £1099 with M1) will potentially cost over £1220 with an M2.
Further up the range if you can get in line for a Mac Studio at £1999 now I'd get one bought. Even better one of the rare refurbs which I saw come up at £1799 for a base model.
In this period between now and Apple's next hardware launch - be it November this year or March next year - I would say a Mac Studio is looking better value than an upgraded M2 Mini if you can afford it.
The next calculation should be that Apple will allow M1 Macs to go on refurb after an M2 is released based on their pre-war prices.
So an 8/256 M1 costs £699 new and £589 refurb (approx 14% off). Once an M2 comes out (costing potentially £769 for the entry level model) Apple have a number of options for Mac minis based on what they have done in the past:
1. Keep it in the refurb store at the same price.
2. Raise refurbished store prices by approx the same 10% as new prices will be raised - I don't recall Apple ever doing this in the refurb store recently but then the FX rate hasn't been this bad for years.
3. Drop the old 'retail price' of the Intel Mac minis because they are now 2 generations old and then discount them again. This is effectively a clearance price as Apple will be using this to clear stocks away but it might not happen either as the Intel model is still on sale at the moment as a 'current' model. It's worth looking at the discontinued iMacs to see if they get a price cut too.
The good news is that Apple have actually raised the discount on 14 and 16 inch MacBook Pros from the derisory 10 percent which they used to be to around the same 14-15 percent that the M1 Airs and pros enjoy. I haven't seen any Mac Studios in the refurb store in that time but a £1699 32/512 M1 Max Mac Studio should be an immediate buy for anyone with that kind of budget for a Mini. And that's where the dilemma comes in.
This is where I make the point where Apple could keep the M1 mini in the lineup but prices may have to go up anyway so why not soften the blow with an all M2 lineup so people at least feel that they are getting something for their money.
That's my justification for Apple potentially keeping the M1 Mini in the line up at the original price - and then offering an M2 upper SKU with 512Gb storage which they would probably have to keep the same case for it to make sense but where prices are allowed to go up.
I could see the M2 Max Studio being £2,299 or £2,399, factoring in inflation and the exchange rate. If so, god forbid how much the new 14/16 MBPs will be. There simply will be almost no reason to buy an M2 Mac over an M1 Mac (outside of design changes, like the Air).
I've been so close to ordering a Studio, but there are a spectrum of issues that worry me about using it long term - coil whine, risk noisy fans (not to mention fans are forced on at idle), bluetooth/connection issues with certain accessories (e..g Logitech mice), etc. I just don't know if I could buy it and be confident it will be a solid device for 4 or so years. It's a shame, because it's an awesome bit of kit, otherwise.
I suspect you're right, and that Apple will keep the M1 mini around. Would be stupid not to, especially if the M2 price increases substantially
Windows devs tend to run multiple virtual machines, thus the high RAM.
Revisiting a display rumour from a couple of weeks ago:
www.macrumors.com
Maybe Apple will wait until Q1 2023 and release the Mac mini with a new 27" display, as Ross Young is still claiming a 27" mini-LED display is coming?
Mind you, some might argue that screen might be better paired with a 2023 Mac Pro than an M2 Mac mini.
Apple Rumored to Launch 27-Inch Mini-LED Display in Q1 2023
Apple is planning to launch an external monitor with a 27-inch mini-LED display in the first quarter of 2023, according to Display Supply Chain...
www.macrumors.com
Maybe Apple will wait until Q1 2023 and release the Mac mini with a new 27" display, as Ross Young is still claiming a 27" mini-LED display is coming?
Mind you, some might argue that screen might be better paired with a 2023 Mac Pro than an M2 Mac mini.
I got tired of waiting and bought a Mac Studio this morning.
Of course if they launch it in the next 14 days ...
Of course if they launch it in the next 14 days ...
I finally gave in and went with the Studio. It's sitting in a box in the basement right now while I try to think about how I will hook it up. I may need to buy a USB-C to DisplayPort or USB-C to HDMI cable or both. I was dragged kicking and screaming into the USB-C world. The mini has the same Bluetooth issues which is why I use a wired keyboard and a dongle-mouse instead of a Bluetooth mouse. The mini fans run at 1,700 RPM, faster than the Mac Studio fans. I am aware of the potential for a noise issue but I plan to put it behind a monitor or I could put it underneath my table.