The new Mac mini is almost certainly coming

[Che Castro]

Is the 10gb Ethernet upgrade $100 worth it ?
If you plan to keep it for 10 years
I currently don’t need it and I’m still using the last AirPort Extreme

 

[sublunar]

Interesting pricing for M1 minis showing up on the US Apple refurb store right now.

Looks like the 8/256 M1 is $469 (last known to be £589 in the UK, also the old USD price?), the 8/512 is $639.

One spec which I kept an eye on in the UK was the 16/512 (and 8/1Tb) which is $809 and last seen to be £929 in the UK.

And 16/1Tb is $979 (last seen to be £1099).

So if we're patient in the UK then possibly some deals to be had if we're price sensitive?

I think the exchange rate at the time was $ = £ (ie parity), so a base M1 Mac mini at £469 would be amazing up against an M2 mini with 8/256 at £649 retail.

Unfortunately, the exchange rate now has shifted to the point where the USD is strong so I'm probably guesstimating a £499 start price for a refurb M1 8/256.

 

[sublunar]

Is the 10gb Ethernet upgrade $100 worth it ?
If you plan to keep it for 10 years
I currently don’t need it and I’m still using the last AirPort Extreme

You would need to have a 10 gig ethernet switch and suitable cabling (ie CAT 6 or better), probably worth it if your internet is faster than gigabit - or at least if your wifi is faster than gigabit (Wifi 6e perhaps?).

 

[jmpage2]

You would need to have a 10 gig ethernet switch and suitable cabling (ie CAT 6 or better), probably worth it if your internet is faster than gigabit - or at least if your wifi is faster than gigabit (Wifi 6e perhaps?).

It's not really about internet for most people, it's about using the 10Gb/s network connection for extremely fast transfer speeds from locally connected storage from something like a NAS.

I would actually get the 10Gb/s port because I have a switch with unused 10Gb/s SFP+ slots and could throw in a copper port to make the connection and then get faster connections to my Synology.

Also keep in mind that in addition to plugging in the 10Gb/s port you will need to enable jumbo frames on all intervening equipment to get the benefit of going above 1Gb/s speeds... the Macs by default have jumbo frames disabled.

 

[sublunar]

It's not really about internet for most people, it's about using the 10Gb/s network connection for extremely fast transfer speeds from locally connected storage from something like a NAS.

I would actually get the 10Gb/s port because I have a switch with unused 10Gb/s SFP+ slots and could throw in a copper port to make the connection and then get faster connections to my Synology.

Also keep in mind that in addition to plugging in the 10Gb/s port you will need to enable jumbo frames on all intervening equipment to get the benefit of going above 1Gb/s speeds... the Macs by default have jumbo frames disabled.

@Che Castro is still rocking the most recent AirPort Extreme and currently doesn't need 10Gb ethernet. If I were in that position I'd be unsure if I'd get that much use out of 10Gig.

I would argue that the most common use of 10 Gig ethernet on Macs would be among people who are lucky enough to be served by faster than gigabit internet.

If you're wanting a faster home network for copying files you'll probably have SSD based servers, expensive 10 gig networking and cabling and a reason to be shifting files around a network at that speed. Remember if you're making use of 10 Gig, your client machine has to have it and so do any servers that they will contact to.

That's all quite expensive even for serous hobbyists.

To be fair, there's an argument there for Mac mini to have had 2.5Gig ethernet included as standard - that's cheaper to fit and can use lesser spec cables which are likely to be in place already. Even expanding with a free USB-C/Thunderbolt port would be relatively inexpensive as an aftermarket add-on. That would have catered immediately for people who have greater than gigabit ethernet or have updated their home network to Wifi 6e.

 

[EugW]

Is the 10gb Ethernet upgrade $100 worth it ?
If you plan to keep it for 10 years
I currently don’t need it and I’m still using the last AirPort Extreme

If you need 2.5 Gbps or better then it’s worth it. Yes you can buy a 10 Gbps Ethernet dongle but from the reviews I’ve seen, they can be buggy, and they can overheat.

If you don’t need it anytime soon then don’t bother spending the $100.

To be fair, there's an argument there for Mac mini to have had 2.5Gig ethernet included as standard - that's cheaper to fit and can use lesser spec cables which are likely to be in place already. Even expanding with a free USB-C/Thunderbolt port would be relatively inexpensive as an aftermarket add-on. That would have catered immediately for people who have greater than gigabit ethernet or have updated their home network to Wifi 6e.

I’m starting to think my next upgrade path might be 2.5 Gbps due to convenience and cost. However, truth be told, I don’t need that right now either. Who knows where the technology will be in 5 years?

 

[reallynotnick]

While I would really like faster than gigabit Ethernet just because I've had it since the PowerMac G4, I realize it becomes not a question of if I need it in 5 years, as I know I won't NEED it, but more of a question on if I can even take advantage of it in 5 years? Which is realistically a maybe, so I stuck with the 1Gb. (Hell I might move and have to use WiFi by then, in which case at least I have 6E)

 

[Che Castro]

I’m thinking I should have spent the $300 and gotten the base m2 pro
Over the m2 16gb/512

I always regretted getting the 2012 i5 over the i7 years later

Is anybody else debating between Mac mini m2 16/512 $1k & the m2 pro for $300 more same ram & storage

 

[jmpage2]

I’m thinking I should have spent the $300 and gotten the base m2 pro
Over the m2 16gb/512

I always regretted getting the 2012 i5 over the i7 years later

Is anybody else debating between Mac mini m2 16/512 $1k & the m2 pro for $300 more same ram & storage

!

@Che Castro is still rocking the most recent AirPort Extreme and currently doesn't need 10Gb ethernet. If I were in that position I'd be unsure if I'd get that much use out of 10Gig.

I would argue that the most common use of 10 Gig ethernet on Macs would be among people who are lucky enough to be served by faster than gigabit internet.

If you're wanting a faster home network for copying files you'll probably have SSD based servers, expensive 10 gig networking and cabling and a reason to be shifting files around a network at that speed. Remember if you're making use of 10 Gig, your client machine has to have it and so do any servers that they will contact to.

That's all quite expensive even for serous hobbyists.

To be fair, there's an argument there for Mac mini to have had 2.5Gig ethernet included as standard - that's cheaper to fit and can use lesser spec cables which are likely to be in place already. Even expanding with a free USB-C/Thunderbolt port would be relatively inexpensive as an aftermarket add-on. That would have catered immediately for people who have greater than gigabit ethernet or have updated their home network to Wifi 6e.

The percentage of homes with greater than gigabit internet speeds is well under 1%. That’s not the target market for this feature.

 

[espacioami]

Is anybody else debating between Mac mini m2 16/512 $1k & the m2 pro for $300 more same ram & storage

Here! but in my case mainly due to HDMI version...

 

[sublunar]

!

The percentage of homes with greater than gigabit internet speeds is well under 1%. That’s not the target market for this feature.

What percentage of homes are rocking a raid 5 SSD based NAS media server for video editing work that necessitates faster than gigabit networking?

It’s a niche feature for sure but if you’re still using an OG AirPort Extreme as a router and weren’t going direct to a Mac Studio (which has 10 gig Ethernet from the get go) I’d suggest that there’s a budget mismatch going on.

Don’t get me wrong, the M1 Pro mini is superb, and 10 gig option is nice but I think 10 gig is for that minority whose internet is faster than 1 gig more than it is for people who need a local network that fast. Those guys are going direct to more expensive macs.

 

[gusping]

I’m thinking I should have spent the $300 and gotten the base m2 pro
Over the m2 16gb/512

I always regretted getting the 2012 i5 over the i7 years later

Is anybody else debating between Mac mini m2 16/512 $1k & the m2 pro for $300 more same ram & storage

Not quite the same, but I was debating the M2 mini with 24GB RAM vs the M2 Pro with 16GB RAM. I am 90% sure 16GB of RAM will be plenty for me as I am a light user. The ability to connect 3 displays plus the other small benefits of the Pro chip such as a faster SSD tipped me that way.

 

[CausticPuppy]

Is the 10gb Ethernet upgrade $100 worth it ?
If you plan to keep it for 10 years
I currently don’t need it and I’m still using the last AirPort Extreme

Do you have multi-gig speed internet? Does your modem have a 2.5GBps or faster LAN port? Do you have a 10Gb switch? If you don’t plan of any of that during the time you own your M2 Mac, then it’s not worth it. But you can also get faster than 1GBps speeds using WiFi 6E anyway.

 

[sublunar]

Not quite the same, but I was debating the M2 mini with 24GB RAM vs the M2 Pro with 16GB RAM. I am 90% sure 16GB of RAM will be plenty for me as I am a light user. The ability to connect 3 displays plus the other small benefits of the Pro chip such as a faster SSD tipped me that way.

I think the m2 pro mini with 16gb would be fine for most people.

The other thing to look at for people on a budget is clearly the 14” M1 Pro MacBook Pro. Refurb models have had another cut and it’s very closely priced with the mini m2 pro now.

 

[jmpage2]

What percentage of homes are rocking a raid 5 SSD based NAS media server for video editing work that necessitates faster than gigabit networking?

It’s a niche feature for sure but if you’re still using an OG AirPort Extreme as a router and weren’t going direct to a Mac Studio (which has 10 gig Ethernet from the get go) I’d suggest that there’s a budget mismatch going on.

Don’t get me wrong, the M1 Pro mini is superb, and 10 gig option is nice but I think 10 gig is for that minority whose internet is faster than 1 gig more than it is for people who need a local network that fast. Those guys are going direct to more expensive macs.

There are many many thousands of people who do video production work, I don't know the number but it is way more people than those who have multi gig internet available.

FYI, I'm a network security engineer and worked for one of the US primary internet providers before my current job. Multi gig internet is rare even for very large corporations with very large budgets.

Macs are the default machines that are used for video production, photo work, etc. Speed bump from 1Gb to 10Gb is noticeable for those professionals as it will let them use network attached storage for those tasks without their workflows getting slowed down.

So, I guess, just trust me on this one.

Most people don't need 10Gb but the ones who do understand why they might want to have it.

I would get it because I do a lot of work with my NAS and the faster speed would be enjoyable for the $100 asking price for the feature.

 

[sublunar]

There are many many thousands of people who do video production work, I don't know the number but it is way more people than those who have multi gig internet available.

FYI, I'm a network security engineer and worked for one of the US primary internet providers before my current job. Multi gig internet is rare even for very large corporations with very large budgets.

Macs are the default machines that are used for video production, photo work, etc. Speed bump from 1Gb to 10Gb is noticeable for those professionals as it will let them use network attached storage for those tasks without their workflows getting slowed down.

So, I guess, just trust me on this one.

Most people don't need 10Gb but the ones who do understand why they might want to have it.

I would get it because I do a lot of work with my NAS and the faster speed would be enjoyable for the $100 asking price for the feature.

My point was that if the numbers of people with a professional requirement for 10 gig Ethernet are as high as you say, they will be using mac studios because of the cost of the NAS, switches, networking etc.

For what it’s worth, in the U.K. gigabit internet is starting to emerge as fibre to the premises increases. As costs come down so do the numbers of people buying into it.

I know fast internet in parts of the states is probably rarer than in other countries so I’m not going to comment on your experience of the popularity (or cost) of multi gigabit networking other than to say that Apple ought to be going 2.5gig where they have Ethernet sockets in commodity macs where standard by now.

I would have a 10 gig home network if I could justify one but I don’t have an SSD NAS, nor do I have mission critical data requirements.

I’d only say that for average consumers a 2.5 gig Ethernet port would have been fine.

 

[gusping]

I think the m2 pro mini with 16gb would be fine for most people.

The other thing to look at for people on a budget is clearly the 14” M1 Pro MacBook Pro. Refurb models have had another cut and it’s very closely priced with the mini m2 pro now.

Yep, should be fine for me.

The 14in MBP has been one of the best value Macs in a long time. I don't think we will see that again here in Europe for a very very very long time. The price of the new base 14in is laughable by comparison.

 

[now i see it]

I think the 10 gig ethernet is primarily aimed at offices that use a common network attached hard drive (NAS) where everyone saves their projects on the network, not locally. That’s when the extra speed of the 10gig ethernet will really be noticeable- moving around big files.

 

[fischersd]

I got 9 years out of my 17" MacBook Pro - I think $100 is peanuts to future proof the network bandwidth for this Mac.

Edit: (yes, it was upgradeable - memory, SSD, bluetooth/wifi controller, new batteries)

 

[Boyd01]

I have 400/400 fiber, got a free trial of gigabit and found it hard to tell the difference (even though I frequently upload/download large amounts of data and stream audio/video). For me, not worth the additional $20/mo.

My 2018 Mini has the 10gbe option, but not by choice. Waited a month for the refurb configuration I wanted, this one had it all plus the 10gbe option. I'm sure I'll never use it, my whole network is just gigabit. Now, when I'm ready to replace this Mini (2025?), I might feel differently.

 

[jmpage2]

My point was that if the numbers of people with a professional requirement for 10 gig Ethernet are as high as you say, they will be using mac studios because of the cost of the NAS, switches, networking etc.

For what it’s worth, in the U.K. gigabit internet is starting to emerge as fibre to the premises increases. As costs come down so do the numbers of people buying into it.

I know fast internet in parts of the states is probably rarer than in other countries so I’m not going to comment on your experience of the popularity (or cost) of multi gigabit networking other than to say that Apple ought to be going 2.5gig where they have Ethernet sockets in commodity macs where standard by now.

I would have a 10 gig home network if I could justify one but I don’t have an SSD NAS, nor do I have mission critical data requirements.

I’d only say that for average consumers a 2.5 gig Ethernet port would have been fine.

So, you might not be aware that the 10Gbe interfaces on the Macs that have them do support 2.5Gb speeds as well. It's just that the chipset Apple chose for this is capable of going all the way to 10Gbe where many more consumer oriented devices that support mGig support 2.5Gb only, for example.

About the 10 Gigabit Ethernet port on Mac

Use the 10 Gigabit Ethernet (RJ-45) port on your iMac, iMac Pro, Mac mini, or Mac Pro for data rates up to 10 Gbit/s.

support.apple.com

As far as multi gig internet goes, FIA in any country tops out at 1Gbps. Multi-gig will arrive (initially as you point out it will probably be delivered as consumer grade 2.5Gb interfaces but that's still a ways out) but it's still a bit of a con game.

Unless you have a truly dedicated connection (fiber) that "multi gig" connection (or any other connection for that matter) is shared with all the other users on the node or span. Additionally, you are constrained by every other link in the connection all the way through to your local point of presence (POP), the head-end connection and eventually the speed of the server you are accessing that you want to get multi gig from.

Amazon, MSFT, Google, etc... as big as they are will not allow you to pull from their connections at those speeds. They do traffic shaping that limits the speed from their servers and nodes to make sure that a user with a super fat connection doesn't fully consume the circuit or server and starve out all of the other users.

 

[EugW]

As far as multi gig internet goes, FIA in any country tops out at 1Gbps. Multi-gig will arrive (initially as you point out it will probably be delivered as consumer grade 2.5Gb interfaces but that's still a ways out) but it's still a bit of a con game.

That is incorrect. >1 Gbps is not uncommon these days.

For example, in my city (Toronto), 8 Gbps is available for FTTH, and in my low density neighborhood of single family detached homes, 3 Gbps is available.

However, I personally don’t really care. I went from 1 Gbps FTTH to 1 Gbps cable to 500 Mbps cable and have no complaints about the speed. The bigger concern for me is the quality of the bundled TV package (since the kids and wife still watch broadcast TV) and the reliability.

Anyhow, in this context, I don’t see myself getting a 10 Gbps Mac mini anytime soon. Plus, I no longer use my NAS for my primary files. I keep everything local to the machine, with external SSDs. I keep media files on my NAS for networked streaming access in the house but I don’t need 10 GigE or even 2.5 GigE for that. The files are never edited on the NAS.

 

[sublunar]

So, you might not be aware that the 10Gbe interfaces on the Macs that have them do support 2.5Gb speeds as well. It's just that the chipset Apple chose for this is capable of going all the way to 10Gbe where many more consumer oriented devices that support mGig support 2.5Gb only, for example.

About the 10 Gigabit Ethernet port on Mac

Use the 10 Gigabit Ethernet (RJ-45) port on your iMac, iMac Pro, Mac mini, or Mac Pro for data rates up to 10 Gbit/s.

support.apple.com

As far as multi gig internet goes, FIA in any country tops out at 1Gbps. Multi-gig will arrive (initially as you point out it will probably be delivered as consumer grade 2.5Gb interfaces but that's still a ways out) but it's still a bit of a con game.

Unless you have a truly dedicated connection (fiber) that "multi gig" connection (or any other connection for that matter) is shared with all the other users on the node or span. Additionally, you are constrained by every other link in the connection all the way through to your local point of presence (POP), the head-end connection and eventually the speed of the server you are accessing that you want to get multi gig from.

Amazon, MSFT, Google, etc... as big as they are will not allow you to pull from their connections at those speeds. They do traffic shaping that limits the speed from their servers and nodes to make sure that a user with a super fat connection doesn't fully consume the circuit or server and starve out all of the other users.

I’m fully aware of the backwards compatibility of 2.5 gig interfaces with 10 gig hardware. My point is that apple could add that to their machines instead of gigabit without appreciable increase in cost and it’s supported by old cat 5e cabling. Far less cost for average consumers who might be lucky enough to have gigabit internet connections.

Yes, contention might be the issue with some companies but big city gigabit providers really see some serious connectivity throughput.

Far more interesting for home users is the prospect of ever faster home WiFi exceeding gigabit speeds.

For home networks, 2.5 gig would be more affordable and could cope with WiFi 6e clients which can exceed gigabit speeds internally.

We ought to then start seeing routers - especially ones capable of WiFi 6e or 7 - coming with 2.5 gig ports rather than the classic gigabit ethernet ones.

Apple really ought to get back into the airport game with WiFi 6, 6e, and 7 standards demanding a move to 2.5 gig ethernet ports for ‘full’ network speeds. That’s where I’d see the sense in buying 10 gig upgrades for desktop macs I guess, and it’ll be a nice earner for Apple of course!

 

[EugW]

I wonder what the SSD speed is for the 256 GB model.

 

[sublunar]

I wonder what the SSD speed is for the 256 GB model.

@EugW opens can of worms and them retreats to minimum safe distance

To be fair, I think that's been overlooked with all the M1 Pro talk but it stands to reason that the 256 model will have the same issues as the Air and 13 Pro.

It does make the M1 Pro model look a better deal.