The new Mac mini is almost certainly coming

[reallynotnick]

Eh? That makes no sense, they've offers a 10GB option in the Mini for ages I thought, seems odd to delay it.

The build to order (BTO) dates have been slowly slipping. Apple clearly had some different combinations pre-built for launch but they have sold out of their first allotments. I'm sure guessing the right amount of every combination to make at launch is hard.

Yeah, I really don't get that. Why didn't they make the pro version black or space grey?

Mac Pro and Mac Studio are silver, Apple definitely can't make up their mind on the dark colors. Personally I love the silver, plus it doesn't show chips or scratches as much. I mean I'd welcome some choice though. (Midnight would be cool, though wouldn't really match my accessories)

 

[LFO8]

€719 starting price for the base model here.. oofff.

 

[EugW]

Yeah, I really don't get that. Why didn't they make the pro version black or space grey?

I think the writing was on the wall became apparent when the Mac Studio came out with the same horizontal dimensions as the Mac mini, and in silver.

And I'm happy. I've never liked the space grey models.

 

[theluggage]

Ok I got what I wanted a mini with 32Gb RAM, not sure about the price though. That insta buy comment I made is making me eat my own words. $900 for 16Gb additional RAM?

...but that's also getting you a significantly more powerful processor with 2 extra CPU cores, 6 extra GPU cores, more memory bandwidth, support for an extra display, 2 extra TB4 ports, HDMI 2.1...

If you're happy with the other specs of the regular M2 then the 24GB M2 is probably the sweet spot unless you know you need the full 32GB.

Apple is still charging a fortune for RAM and SSD and low-balling the specs on the base models and I'm not forgiving them for that - but Tuesday didn't change any of that (Apple used to want the same 8GB=$200 for plain old DDR DIMMS), and it does look like the Mini has got about a $100 price cut (maybe less outside the US) overall.

 

[Pezimak]

Nah, it has everything to do with currencies. The Euro has dropped significantly in the last while.

Well guess we will find something out soon, I can’t see them leaving the Studio much longer now the MB Pro is out with the Max chip. It I wouldn’t buy the Studio if it costs more, I’d stick to a Pro Mini.

I just noticed in your sig you have the exact same monitor as me, does your M1 Mac Mini handle it fine at 4K? Have you tried it with display port? Also how do you clean your screen, I used a damp and a dry micro fibre on mine but it left smears I can’t seem to get rid off.

 

[EugW]

Well guess we will find something out soon, I can’t see them leaving the Studio much longer now the MB Pro is out with the Max chip. It I wouldn’t buy the Studio if it costs more, I’d stick to a Pro Mini.

I just noticed in your sig you have the exact same monitor as me, does your M1 Mac Mini handle it fine at 4K? Have you tried it with display port? Also how do you clean your screen, I used a damp and a dry micro fibre on mine but it left smears I can’t seem to get rid off.

With the MateView 28.2", I use USB-C. HDMI also works but only at 30 Hz at full 3840x2560 resolution. I think I tried DisplayPort with it from the M1 but I'm not sure now. (I know it works fine with DisplayPort, but I can't remember if it was with this Mac or another Mac I tried for DisplayPort.)

Also, there is a difference between USB-C and HDMI that probably wouldn't bother most people but it annoys me:
- With USB-C, I can run a Hi-DPI scaled resolution of 2304x1536.
- With HDMI, the 2304x1536 resolution option is missing.

It's moot for this monitor, since HDMI is limited to 30 Hz anyway on this monitor, but it seems for 4K 3840x2160 monitors that can run at 60 Hz with HDMI, that resolution scaling option difference is also present. 2304x1296 is available with USB-C, but not with HDMI.

BTW, when I got the monitor, the colours out of the box were somewhat off, despite their claims of factory calibration to delta error < 2. So, I bought a SpyderX Pro and calibrated it myself, and now the colours look great and match my iPhone and iPad too.

 

[Pezimak]

With the MateView 28.2", I use USB-C. HDMI also works but only at 30 Hz at full 3840x2560 resolution. I think I tried DisplayPort with it from the M1 but I'm not sure now. (I know it works fine with DisplayPort, but I can't remember if it was with this Mac or another Mac I tried for DisplayPort.)

Also, there is a difference between USB-C and HDMI that probably wouldn't bother most people but it annoys me:
- With USB-C, I can run a Hi-DPI scaled resolution of 2304x1536.
- With HDMI, the 2304x1536 resolution option is missing.

It's moot for this monitor, since HDMI is limited to 30 Hz anyway on this monitor, but it seems for 4K 3840x2160 monitors that can run at 60 Hz with HDMI, that resolution scaling option difference is also present. 2304x1296 is available with USB-C, but not with HDMI.

BTW, when I got the monitor, the colours out of the box were somewhat off, despite their claims of factory calibration to delta error < 2. So, I bought a SpyderX Pro and calibrated it myself, and now the colours look great and match my iPhone and iPad too.

View attachment 2144266

Thank you for the reply I have my works laptop plugged in on USB C so would need to use Display Port. Never thought about calibrating it. How do you clean your screen?

 

[EugW]

Thank you for the reply I have my works laptop plugged in on USB C so would need to use Display Port. Never thought about calibrating it. How do you clean your screen?

Just with a damp cloth.

 

[Herbert123]

The 8GB base models are complete joke. FINALLY the Mac Mini that would bring me back into the Mac ecosystem, and a last-century amount of base RAM is added? For heaven's sake, my 3080ti has 12GB!

Dang, even my Raspberry Pi has 4GB which cost a fraction. I have to hand it to Apple for milking the cow dry. If the base model had had 16gb I would have ordered it yesterday. But not now.

So close. Yet so far. What a crying shame. 😭

 

[sublunar]

Yes, this is a fair point. It's possible the M2 Max Mac Studio will see a price increase in Euros.

I'd say it's probable given the direction of travel for the exchange rate. As I theorised before Apple had to cut the USD price of the Mini to prevent the potential damaging headlines of their cheapest Mac SKU going up in price around the world. As it is, a $100 cut in the US has only translated to a £50 cut in the UK.

Waiting for the tear down if the new Mac Mini M2 Pro, see if you can actually Clean the fan out without having to take the entire computer apart, also will be interesting to see if it suffers from the same bluetooth connectivity issues the Studio does.

Trouble with Apples M chips is the RAM, probably be fine with 16GB but what about later on? When you can’t upgrade it.

Hardware reviewing will only come over time. We already have reports of coil whine with certain Mac Studio models on top of Bluetooth/Wifi issues with with Mini.

The Apple ladder, you look at the base but it only comes with this and this, you go a step up great but then it doesn't have this, you go a step up.. always trying to upsell you.
But I think the fact they even offer the new Mini with a Pro chip is fantastic. I personally think the next Studio will see a significant price bump to clear the Mac Mini.

As said before, around the world I am expecting 12-15% price increase for the Mac Studio M2 Max. Fortunately there seems to be enough supply of refurbed M1 Max Mac Studios to bridge the gap. I don't expect the US dollar price to change - maybe Apple have a method to their particular madness because this is a clear ladder of upgrades to lead people to the Mac Studio.

Yup, I've glad that they slipped in the M2 Pro tier. I didn't expect they'd drop the M2 Mac mini prices to make that work, but fortunately they did.

As for price increases for the M2 Max/Ultra Mac Studio, I'm thinking they may not do that in the US or Canada, but will in Europe. (The US dollar hasn't gained much in value vs. the Canadian dollar, but both of those currencies have gained significantly vs. the Euro.)

I think you'll find considering a Max Mini M2 Pro specced up with 1TB SSD and 32GB ram cost just a bit more then the base Studio, even in the US, the next Studio will see a price increase in the US like other markets to separate itself. And I expect an updated Studio to drop very soon now the chips have been launched in the MacBook Pro.

I just wonder if Apple are ok with driving people up towards the Mac Studio. Everyone can see they are a good value purchase if you have sufficient budget now that the M2 Pro Mini has appeared on the scene.

 

[gusping]

The 8GB base models are complete joke. FINALLY the Mac Mini that would bring me back into the Mac ecosystem, and a last-century amount of base RAM is added? For heaven's sake, my 3080ti has 12GB!

Dang, even my Raspberry Pi has 4GB which cost a fraction. I have to hand it to Apple for milking the cow dry. If the base model had had 16gb I would have ordered it yesterday. But not now.

So close. Yet so far. What a crying shame. 😭

Agreed. Not quite as bad on the M2 Pro, but the £400 upgrade to 32GB is horrific. I've gone with 16GB for now as it should be fine for me, but will do some thorough testing during the 14 day return period to double check AS ram management is as good as people say.

 

[sublunar]

Has anyone noticed in the UK that a refurbished M1 Pro MacBook Pro can now be had in a 16/512 8/14 configuration for £1459? It's only £60 more than the standard M2 Pro mini which comes in 16/512 10/16 configuration.

Granted, both have 6 performance cores, the M2 Pro has 2 more efficiency cores and a couple more graphics cores.

The M1 Pro MacBook Pro has one less thunderbolt port (and loses a couple of USB-A ports) and probably has slightly lower all round CPU (both single core and multi core) AND GPU performance but you do get a gorgeous screen, keyboard, trackpad, and battery for your money, although that HDMI 2.1 port might interest big monitor users who might get the M2 Pro mini.

 

[Pezimak]

Just with a damp cloth.

Thanks hmm I'll have to try it again then see if I can get the smears off. I like the monitor and think it's a good buy. Nice design.

 

[Herbert123]

Agreed. Not quite as bad on the M2 Pro, but the £400 upgrade to 32GB is horrific. I've gone with 16GB for now as it should be fine for me, but will do some thorough testing during the 14 day return period to double check AS ram management is as good as people say.

We have snazzy Mac Studios at work with 32GB. They completely choke, stutter, and crash when I load a heavy scene that (granted) requires at least 48GB to load in Blender.

Still, after all the talk that the Silicon Macs supposedly run their ram much more efficiently -- I was a tad disappointed. As always don't believe the hype and test for yourself.

In any case releasing a new model computer in 2023(!) with brilliant performance figures that are then hamperred with an embarrassingly low amount of ram is bordering on the ridiculousness.

Ah well. It is what it is. Perhaps 2033 will be the year?

 

[Pezimak]

I'd say it's probable given the direction of travel for the exchange rate. As I theorised before Apple had to cut the USD price of the Mini to prevent the potential damaging headlines of their cheapest Mac SKU going up in price around the world. As it is, a $100 cut in the US has only translated to a £50 cut in the UK.


Hardware reviewing will only come over time. We already have reports of coil whine with certain Mac Studio models on top of Bluetooth/Wifi issues with with Mini.

As said before, around the world I am expecting 12-15% price increase for the Mac Studio M2 Max. Fortunately there seems to be enough supply of refurbed M1 Max Mac Studios to bridge the gap. I don't expect the US dollar price to change - maybe Apple have a method to their particular madness because this is a clear ladder of upgrades to lead people to the Mac Studio.



I just wonder if Apple are ok with driving people up towards the Mac Studio. Everyone can see they are a good value purchase if you have sufficient budget now that the M2 Pro Mini has appeared on the scene.

That's too low for a price difference, I think you'll find at least a £500 increase, and then the Mac Pro prices from something like 5000, starting with an ultra chip.

Keen to see the comparisons between the Studio and Mini M2 Pro. Especially with the graphics, see if the few extra cores on the Studio make a difference.

 

[gusping]

We have snazzy Mac Studios at work with 32GB. They completely choke, stutter, and crash when I load a heavy scene that (granted) requires at least 48GB to load in Blender.

Still, after all the talk that the Silicon Macs supposedly run their ram much more efficiently -- I was a tad disappointed. As always don't believe the hype and test for yourself.

In any case releasing a new model computer in 2023(!) with brilliant performance figures that are then hamperred with an embarrassingly low amount of ram is bordering on the ridiculousness.

Ah well. It is what it is. Perhaps 2033 will be the year?

Ultimately everyone uses their Mac in a slightly different way and so the only real way to find out is to test yourself. Thankfully Apple's generous return policy makes that a pretty painless experience. I should be fine as I am a light user, but you never know.

 

[jmpage2]

We have snazzy Mac Studios at work with 32GB. They completely choke, stutter, and crash when I load a heavy scene that (granted) requires at least 48GB to load in Blender.

Still, after all the talk that the Silicon Macs supposedly run their ram much more efficiently -- I was a tad disappointed. As always don't believe the hype and test for yourself.

In any case releasing a new model computer in 2023(!) with brilliant performance figures that are then hamperred with an embarrassingly low amount of ram is bordering on the ridiculousness.

Ah well. It is what it is. Perhaps 2033 will be the year?

That's a very unrealistic requirement for a machine like the Mini which is mostly geared towards casual users.

The M2 Pro version with 32GB of RAM will satisfy the requirements of MOST power users, but not ones working with huge amounts of video or doing rendering or other hefty jobs.

For them they make Studio, MacBook Pro and soon new Mac Pro.

 

[reallynotnick]

Still, after all the talk that the Silicon Macs supposedly run their ram much more efficiently -- I was a tad disappointed. As always don't believe the hype and test for yourself.

That myth needs to die, really it's just people are fine with memory compression and swapping to the SSD being fast enough. Which is fine as it does do that well, but it doesn't magically use less RAM than an Intel Mac.

 

[gusping]

That myth needs to die, really it's just people are fine with memory compression and swapping to the SSD being fast enough. Which is fine as it does do that well, but it doesn't magically use less RAM than an Intel Mac.

On a somewhat related note. I read that it helps that the AS Macs don't need to allocate 1.5GB of RAM as VRAM, like the old Intel Macs with no dGPU (e.g. 2018 minis). However, that makes zero sense to me. It's just that unified memory also now acts as VRAM. Maybe there are some efficiencies that help, but it doesn't sound valid to me.

Please chip in if you know more about how the RAM layout in AS Macs compares to the old Intel minis with no dGPU. Curious to learn more.

 

[sublunar]

On a somewhat related note. I read that it helps that the AS Macs don't need to allocate 1.5GB of RAM as VRAM, like the old Intel Macs with no dGPU (e.g. 2018 minis). However, that makes zero sense to me. It's just that unified memory also now acts as VRAM. Maybe there are some efficiencies that help, but it doesn't sound valid to me.

Please chip in if you know more about how the RAM layout in AS Macs compares to the old Intel minis with no dGPU. Curious to learn more.

Plenty of folks who can explain it better than me.

I read that like the old Amigas. They had custom silicon that accessed a unified pool of chip memory (which included use as a frame buffer or VRAM if you like). But you could add memory only accessible by the 680x0 CPU ('fast' memory).

When used on an Apple Silicon Mac Pro I would imagine the SoC will contain all the unified memory that can be accessed by the onboard processor and we pretty much know the options already published. An M1 Ultra Maxes out at 128Gb, I guess an M2 Extreme (would double it and possibly add half again).

But for people who need significantly more RAM Apple add a RAM controller which can access traditional DDR5 memory at a slower rate than the unified memory.

So our Mac Pro gains RAM slots for the kind of extra memory that heavy duty users need to render mathematical models or 8k multi layer videos etc.

 

[reallynotnick]

On a somewhat related note. I read that it helps that the AS Macs don't need to allocate 1.5GB of RAM as VRAM, like the old Intel Macs with no dGPU (e.g. 2018 minis). However, that makes zero sense to me. It's just that unified memory also now acts as VRAM. Maybe there are some efficiencies that help, but it doesn't sound valid to me.

Please chip in if you know more about how the RAM layout in AS Macs compares to the old Intel minis with no dGPU. Curious to learn more.

I do know like with my 2012 Mac Mini the graphics memory could change based on the amount of RAM you had in the machine. It also increased with later versions of MacOS.

I don't however know if that memory was like fully dedicated or could possibly be released if needed (it doesn't show up as a line item in Activity Monitor or anything at least obvious). My guess is it can, as later versions of MacOS reported the graphics memory of the Intel HD 4000 was 1.5GB even on 4GB systems (on release it was either 512MB or 768MB). Also Intel has long supported DVMT at least on Windows for sure, but I imagine it would have to be the same on MacOS.

Dynamic video memory technology - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

So yeah I'd say it's very unlikely you are gaining much memory if any on Apple Silicon vs Intel.

 

[Boil]

An M1 Ultra Maxes out at 128Gb, I guess an M2 Extreme (would double it and possibly add half again).

M2 Max has a maximum RAM of 96GB, therefore M2 Ultra should have a maximum of 192GB (with 800GB/s UMA bandwidth)...

A theoretical M2 Extreme (since all rumors point towards the M2 Extreme not being feasible just right now, and the most solid rumors we have here from a forum user only talk about the M2 Ultra SoC) would have a maximum RAM of 384GB (with 1.6TB/s UMA bandwidth)...

So yeah, a (again, theoretical) M2 Extreme SoC "would double it and possibly add half again"...

 

[Gudi]

This M2 Extreme rumor needs to die once and for all. There's always going to be an absolut fastest chip possible with current technology. Fantasizing about another yet twice as fast chip is good for nothing. Everyone who hasn't payed the $4,799 minimum for a Mac Studio with M1 Ultra and 128 GB RAM, should shut up! You could neither afford nor utilize an M2 Extreme.

 

[AppleNooble]

If you're happy with the other specs of the regular M2 then the 24GB M2 is probably the sweet spot unless you know you need the full 32GB. I'm pretty sure I'll get it... eventually.

No, 24Gb is a no go for me. Definitely need 32Gb.

 

[Gudi]

The M2 Pro, according to these results, also beats the M1 Max, which achieves 1,727 single-core and 12,643 multi-core scores.

Do Mac Studio buyers still think it was right to not wait for the new Mini?