The new Mac mini is almost certainly coming

[Populus]

I for one would love for the Mac mini and Mac Studio to make a baby and put accessible ports on the front on the mini. It’s not like the case of the mini does not have the room.

I was just thinking this yesterday, while trying to plug in some USB SSD to the rear of the mini. I is really uncomfortable, especially if you have to plug in and out several times.

If they redesign the Mac mini, I really hope them to put at least one or two USB-C ports on the front of the Mac mini.

 

[Populus]

Gosh, if they do introduce an M4 Pro Mini soon, what specs would they have to put on the next Mac Studio to keep it selling?

The M4 Max and M4 Ultra will probably obliterate the M4 Pro in raw power. I guess that’s why they made the move on the M3 gen to make the M3 Pro less powerful (less P-cores) and a bit more efficient, while widening the gap between the M3 Pro and Max.

 

[turbineseaplane]

If they redesign the Mac mini

I wonder if they ever will?

They really have done a true redesign only once

 

[Eric_WVGG]

I don't understand why the Mac Mini is much bigger than an AppleTV at this point.

 

[Corefile]

I wonder if they ever will?

They really have done a true redesign only once

We've previously talked about the NUC being tiny compared to the elephantine Mac Mini footprint. There are zero excuses for it to be so huge.

 

[LeeW]

There are zero excuses for it to be so huge.

Some of the biggest customers are server providers that have adapted racks to house them, re-tooling and many other reasons why they don't need to change.

 

[Populus]

Some of the biggest customers are server providers that have adapted racks to house them, re-tooling and many other reasons why they don't need to change.

Well, a redesign would certainly make those customers change their racks with different sized metal rails… but I d think that’s too expensive, compared with the benefits of having, let’s say, a 30-40% more computers in the same space, or the same number of macs in a smaller space.

However, I’m not sure by how much could they shrink the size if we take into account the power supply… sure, the M4 and possibly the M4 Pro have a good thermal behavior from what we’ve seen on the iPad Pro, and that could help making the device thinner (shorter, actually), but I still don’t know if the internal power supply can be made smaller… or, maybe, doing like the iMac and going for an external power supply, with a connector that integrates both power and Ethernet. That would be pretty cool. Add a plexiglass top and different colors like the iMac, and it would sell a lot. Maybe even give the option to be acquired with keyboard and mouse/trackpad included for just $199 more.

 

[LeeW]

Realistically, shrinking the Mac Mini would require an external power brick. I don't like that idea; Apple doesn't either. That is probably enough on its own to expect no change. And even if you could shrink it while keeping the power supply in there, cooling is going to be a real issue. M4 and future chips may be good thermally, but there is only so far you can go when it comes to the effective dissipation of heat in very small spaces.

 

[Populus]

Realistically, shrinking the Mac Mini would require an external power brick. I don't like that idea; Apple doesn't either. That is probably enough on its own to expect no change. And even if you could shrink it while keeping the power supply in there, cooling is going to be a real issue. M4 and future chips may be good thermally, but there is only so far you can go when it comes to the effective dissipation of heat in very small spaces.

Don’t you think the aluminum enclosure of our minis contribute to heat dissipation? Or do you think it’s mostly the fan and heatsink?

I mean, the Mac mini enclosure has had much hotter Intel CPUs inside, with no issues… the Apple Silicon chips are much more power efficient.

We’ll see. But I expect the mini to remain the same as we know it, for just one reason: profits.

 

[sublunar]

Don’t you think the aluminum enclosure of our minis contribute to heat dissipation? Or do you think it’s mostly the fan and heatsink?

I mean, the Mac mini enclosure has had much hotter Intel CPUs inside, with no issues… the Apple Silicon chips are much more power efficient.

We’ll see. But I expect the mini to remain the same as we know it, for just one reason: profits.

Completely agree with that sentiment, the case tooling is paid for, if apple redesigned it they will have to increase the price to pay it back.

Yes the current iteration was designed for 65w coffee lake CPUs but the cooling power will be useful for keeping the arm macs quiet, especially as the process shrinks occur.

If Apple were going to try something new it might end up redesigning the AppleTV if they were to use a more powerful A class processor but I suspect the current enclosure will be fine for non gaming applications unless they intend to make more of Apple Arcade…

 

[Neodym]

I mean, the Mac mini enclosure has had much hotter Intel CPUs inside, with no issues…

… except for them sounding like a jet engine under (sustained) load.

the Apple Silicon chips are much more power efficient.

… and that is why the Apple Silicon minis are dead silent.

We’ll see. But I expect the mini to remain the same as we know it, for just one reason: profits.

Well, Apple is a company, not a charity. Of course they aim for profits. Besides that there are various other reasons to stick to the current housing, which have already been mentioned here multiple times.

 

[LeeW]

Don’t you think the aluminum enclosure of our minis contribute to heat dissipation? Or do you think it’s mostly the fan and heatsink?

It all plays a part, but it's hard to beat efficient pulling in and pushing out of the air through a well-designed unit with space to work the right way. I'm not saying a tiny enclosure couldn't cope. It's just less efficient, especially when under higher loads.

I mean, the Mac mini enclosure has had much hotter Intel CPUs inside, with no issues…

I'm afraid I have to disagree with that. I have had many Minis; even the last Intel Mini could warm a bed, and that was without being pushed all that hard.

 

[turbineseaplane]

the case tooling is paid for, if apple redesigned it they will have to increase the price to pay it back.

They wouldn't really "have to" -- they just would

Perhaps they could pay for it out of the "we screwed the customer on RAM and SSD upgrade pricing" kitty?

 

[sublunar]

They wouldn't really "have to" -- they just would

Perhaps they could pay for it out of the "we screwed the customer on RAM and SSD upgrade pricing" kitty?

wishful thinking 😀

Besides, Apple would need to roadmap probably about the next 5 generations of CPUs to fully amortise a new case design and weigh that against the likely complaints from the co-location guys.

Any new design may have to have radio transparent zones to improve WiFi reception which in turn puts at risk the idea that a fully aluminium case is highly recyclable.

Or they could just stick an m4/pro inside the existing case and call it a day.

 

[Populus]

Well, Apple is a company, not a charity. Of course they aim for profits. Besides that there are various other reasons to stick to the current housing, which have already been mentioned here multiple times.

I know, and I haven‘t said that Apple must be a charity, not need to become that defensive, we’re just customers, remember. But that doesn’t conflict with the fact (or opinions, if you want) that some products are a bit overpriced (not saying the base mini is), and Apple likes to keep a good benefit margin. If new enclosures are a bit more expensive, I don’t think it would add too much to the costs…

Anyways, yeah, there might be other reasons that have been discussed earlier on the thread, which I might or might not agree with. But I’m not getting there as I’m not in the mood of having arguments. I would like the mini to be smaller and lighter, and you would prefer not to, and I respect your view. But ultimately, it’s Apple that will make the decision.

 

[Populus]

Completely agree with that sentiment, the case tooling is paid for, if apple redesigned it they will have to increase the price to pay it back.

Yes the current iteration was designed for 65w coffee lake CPUs but the cooling power will be useful for keeping the arm macs quiet, especially as the process shrinks occur.

If Apple were going to try something new it might end up redesigning the AppleTV if they were to use a more powerful A class processor but I suspect the current enclosure will be fine for non gaming applications unless they intend to make more of Apple Arcade…

Thank you for your agreeable, respectful and informative comment.

By the way, the popular concept of the mini with a plexiglass top would have one disadvantage: it isn’t a good thermal conductor. So it would probably dissipate less heat.

 

[sublunar]

Thank you for your agreeable, respectful and informative comment.

By the way, the popular concept of the mini with a plexiglass top would have one disadvantage: it isn’t a good thermal conductor. So it would probably dissipate less heat.

With the downside of betraying their recycling credentials unfortunately. I just don't see why Apple would invest in a case redesign for a low selling line without a really good reason.

When the Intel 65w Coffee Lake CPU was replaced by the M1 and then M2 but using the same case we had a situation where the Mini case and power supply was overspecified for the M1 CPU. The arrival of the M2 Pro on the back of the M2 was a pleasant surprise but only served to underline the fact that the cooling solution (and PSU) was so overpowered for an Mx chip that Apple could put an M2 Pro in a mini.

The thing is, Apple keep producing it in the Mini and it can power the M2 Pro.

Compare with the 24" iMac with a power supply that's also overspecified for an M1/M3 CPU, maybe Apple decided not to use a Pro series CPU in it yet? Or could we be seeing a situation where a more powerful Mx SKU comes in for these 'low-end' bits of kit?

At this stage the Mini going forward is fairly predictable now we have a couple of Mx series CPUs to look at - aside from the whole skipping M3 bit which has been thoroughly explained by now.

 

[Corefile]

No new Minis at WWDC then. Pretty unimpressed.

 

[kent5]

No new Minis at WWDC then. Pretty unimpressed.

You've had a good record on these things before, so you may be right...but given the WWDC hasn't even started yet, how do you know? Is it your guess, or was there some sort of preview or pre-announcement that I missed?

 

[jtdx99]

WWDC should never be a hardware announcement anyways.

Personally, I'm debating between getting a refurb M3 Pro MBP with 18GB RAM or wait for a base M4 Mini (maybe 16GB RAM?)

 

[Melbourne Park]

I know, and I haven‘t said that Apple must be a charity, not need to become that defensive, we’re just customers, remember. But that doesn’t conflict with the fact (or opinions, if you want) that some products are a bit overpriced (not saying the base mini is), and Apple likes to keep a good benefit margin. If new enclosures are a bit more expensive, I don’t think it would add too much to the costs…

Actually a smaller case would lower Apple's cost. Aluminium (I'm Australian so that is how we spell aluminum I think you spell it) which is still expensive metal, despite China building excess coal fired power stations that end up waiting for use so they power alloy smelting hence cheap aluminium at the moment. But it is still not a low cost metal. Reduce the metal, you reduce the price, and significantly.

And forget the tooling costs. They were amortised years ago. A redesign would be cheap. Apple have several designers. And tooling wears out. So it would have been regularly replaced. So the next replacement comes along - then put in the new tooling and product, and save production costs. i'd also reckon that today's motherboards could be made thinner and cheaper too.

Cost of manufacture is not a reason for Apple leaving the units external appearance the same.

I wonder too - has anyone put a micrometer over the casing of a Mac Mini? While its externals would appear the same, I would be disappointed if with the M processors, Apple did not make the casing thinner. Which would lower costs, and improve cooling. Then again, no need to improve cooling in such a big casing (relative to what could be achieved).

 

[kent5]

Well, Corefile was right. Kudos.

Pretty disappointing show overall. Not just because of the lack of Minis, but overall seemed pretty meh.

Positives:
*I liked the remote iPhone access (cool).

*I thought making Siri more 'me' and context aware would be good (if they can really make it work noticeably better)

*Local/Protected AI is great.

Negatives:
* It seemed like an inordinate amount of time was spent talking about cool new custom emojis and AI generated emoji. As I am older than 18, that was a pretty big Yawn.

* the fact that Apple Intelligence has the ability to reach out to ChatGPT for "help" is troubling. I can see where that becomes the norm. I know, Siri supposedly asks before it does so. I am hoping there is an option in iPhone Settings that would allow the user to disable ALL ChatGPT interaction from Siri. I don't want to tell Siri no every single day.

I was also watching Apple's stock price during the event, and it appeared to take a big dip as soon as it became apparent Apple had nothing "big" to announce. Could have been coincidence, but an interesting one to be sure.

I guess I'll just have to decide between a standard M2 Mini with the 16GB RAM option, or the base M2Pro Mini for $500 more.

 

[Corefile]

You've had a good record on these things before, so you may be right...but given the WWDC hasn't even started yet, how do you know? Is it your guess, or was there some sort of preview or pre-announcement that I missed?

The lack of rumors put the final nail in the coffin of it for me. It just wouldn't have fitted into WWDC so that's the basis of my "good record" I'm afraid.

 

[sublunar]

The lack of rumors put the final nail in the coffin of it for me. It just wouldn't have fitted into WWDC so that's the basis of my "good record" I'm afraid.

Mac supply chain is usually well buttoned up - not as much money in leaks. Did we know about the form factor of the trashcan Mac Pro before it turned up? Or the 2019 new cheese grater?

I think on this basis a M4 refresh in the same old case we all know and love in October (alongside Mac Studio) will be inevitable.

Remember the footprints for both are the same so if one changes the other is likely to as well.

 

[EugW]

Prediction for next Mac mini release:

2025 Q1
M4
Four Thunderbolt 4 (no USB-A)
12 GB RAM
256 GB SSD

2025 Q1
M4 Pro
Four Thunderbolt 4 + two USB-C (no USB-A)
16 GB RAM
512 GB SSD