The new Mac mini is almost certainly coming

[EugW]

i know.
i found out using say mountain lion on a 2010 MBA or a 2012 mini works better than El Cap etc.

IMHO, anything older than 10.13 High Sierra is basically unusable. And in fact, I wouldn't recommend anything older than 10.15 Catalina to someone who actually wants it for their primary machine to access modern websites. Catalina came out 5 years ago, in 2019.

And I say this as someone who has a 10.13 High Sierra iMac Core i7 sitting on my desk, as well as a 10.11 El Capitan Mac Pro (and machines all the back to 10.5).

 

[ignatius345]

My condolences, both for having to use an 11" Air that long, and for buying a 2020 i5 just before the M1 transition.

Loved the 11" Air, but that 2020 i5 Air was just a dog in the end. I struggled to get 5 hours of run time out of it and was constantly babying the battery, turning down the brightness, all that dumb stuff. Then the M1 came along and got literally triple the battery life and felt twice as fast.

 

[MBAir2010]

IMHO, anything older than 10.13 High Sierra is basically unusable. And in fact, I wouldn't recommend anything older than 10.15 Catalina to someone who actually wants it for their primary machine to access modern websites. Catalina came out 5 years ago, in 2019.

And I say this as someone who has a 10.13 High Sierra iMac Core i7 sitting on my desk.

not anymore, Firefox legacy works in Mountain lion as that is streaming the euro finals now perfectly.
i'm surprised too! to prove this, some one just scored!

 

[EugW]

not anymore, Firefox legacy works in Mountain lion as that is streaming the euro finals now perfectly.
i'm surprised too!

Firefox Legacy isn't supported anymore AFAIK, and as mentioned the 2010 MacBook Air is slow. However, those Core 2 Duos do support hardware h.264 AVC acceleration so it's not a huge surprise it can stream video. Depends on the streaming site though, as DRM compatibility can be an issue.

Loved the 11" Air, but that 2020 i5 Air was just a dog in the end. I struggled to get 5 hours of run time out of it and was constantly babying the battery, turning down the brightness, all that dumb stuff. Then the M1 came along and got literally triple the battery life and felt twice as fast.

I must admit I did not like those 11" Airs, even when they were first launched. The screen quality was poorer than other Macs at the time. As mentioned, it was also slow, although SSD helped a lot.

I liked the Retina 12" MacBook much better, but that did have that butterfly keyboard, and it wasn't cheap. However, I waited for the 2017 though because it had a noticeably better keyboard than the 2015 model, it was much faster than the 2015 model, and the 2017 got hardware h.265 HEVC acceleration. I still use that, running Ventura.

Back in 2021, I toyed with the idea of buying a used 2020 Intel i3 Retina MacBook Air to give to the wife since its prices dropped fairly quickly after the Apple Silicon transition, but people said it ran hot with poor battery life. In the end I just picked up an 2017 i5 MacBook Air for super cheap, but will likely upgrade that to Apple Silicon when Apple releases the base MBA with 12 GB RAM. She's now starting to complain that she can't play some videos, which is because it does not support hardware h.265 HEVC acceleration. (Some of the video for our kids' recitals, etc. are recorded in h.265 format now, with no h.264 option.)

And to get back on topic, for the Mac mini, I have a 1 TB 16 GB M1 which I got for a decent price used a couple of years back, but the lack of ports still bugs me, since using a Thunderbolt 4 hub just isn't the same experience as having built-in Thunderbolt ports. I anxiously await the next Mac mini, as I'm intrigued by the knowledge that M4 has 4 Thunderbolt controllers.

 

[MBAir2010]

Firefox Legacy isn't supported anymore AFAIK, and as mentioned the 2010 MacBook Air is slow. However, those Core 2 Duos do support hardware h.264 AVC acceleration so it's not a huge surprise it can stream video. Depends on the streaming site though, as DRM compatibility can be an issue.

i know, i am much surprised as anyone that older macs and OSX works GREAT now.
Benny Hill once did a skit as he proved to his audience how scientifically birds cannot fly,
He explained the velocity, air flow and other factors proving his point
then finished by stating, "Yes birds cant fly, but dont tell them, since don't know these facts...."

i might start a thread in the early Intel section of using 2012 and Mt lion only with other 2010ish  products
but i need that 2023 ipad to draw on.

 

[Boyd01]

However, I'm not convinced they may be upping the specs just for AI. I think it's just gotten to the point where it is only minimally more costly or perhaps not more costly to up the specs. Apple can't stay at 8 GB forever.

Oh, I'm all for more RAM, bigger SSD's and faster processors - especially at lower cost. But my impression was that they're making specialized processors that are optimized for AI and not just general spec bumps to make everything faster. But maybe that's mostly hype? Really not following these developments at all.

When I look at their AI preview, I struggle to see anything there that I want or need.

 

[EugW]

Oh, I'm all for more RAM, bigger SSD's and faster processors - especially at lower cost. But my impression was that they're making specialized processors that are optimized for AI and not just general spec bumps to make everything faster. But maybe that's mostly hype? Really not following these developments at all.

When I look at their AI preview, I struggle to see anything there that I want or need.

From what I gather, it's in significant part hype, at least from the hardware perspective. People who understand this better than me state that the hardware technology for this has been in place for a while now, gradually improving over each M series iteration. It's not as if they crammed everything into M4 all of a sudden. However, the software push is indeed big for this year.

To put it another way, the hardware improvements have been iterative but not fully utilized from the software side, but in 2024 there will be heavier utilization of these hardware improvements because of big software improvements.

One big deal for software developers is the introduction of AI based predictive code completion in Xcode for the latest macOS. However, Apple currently states it will require 16 GB RAM, so it's probable even base 12 GB RAM machines won't support this, despite the M4 improvements. Mind you, anyone buying a Mac specifically for developing in Xcode should get a minimum of 16 GB anyway, regardless if they use predictive code completion or not.

Apple empowers developers and fuels innovation with new tools and resources

Apple unveiled new tools and resources to enable developers worldwide to create more powerful apps across iOS, iPadOS, macOS, watchOS, and visionOS.

www.apple.com

It should be noted though that predictive code completion does NOT require M4. It just requires Apple Silicon, along with that 16 GB RAM.

 

[sublunar]

One big deal for software developers is the introduction of AI based predictive code completion in Xcode for the latest macOS. However, Apple currently states it will require 16 GB RAM, so it's probable even base 12 GB RAM machines won't support this, despite the M4 improvements. Mind you, anyone buying a Mac specifically for developing in Xcode should get a minimum of 16 GB anyway, regardless if they use predictive code completion or not.

Tp be fair, declaring 12Gb would be enough would have been an odd thing to declare given that no Macs currently ship with 12Gb of RAM. Apple might just retroactively amend that if they launch a model with that amount of RAM in the future.

Look at it from another point of view - Apple are saying that 8Gb isn't enough.

 

[EugW]

Tp be fair, declaring 12Gb would be enough would have been an odd thing to declare given that no Macs currently ship with 12Gb of RAM. Apple might just retroactively amend that if they launch a model with that amount of RAM in the future.

Look at it from another point of view - Apple are saying that 8Gb isn't enough.

Agreed, but I am leaning toward the prediction that they will leave the requirement for predictive code completion at 16 GB minimum. That's just a guess though.

 

[weaztek]

While I don't care much about the new AI features, I'm glad they may be upping the specs, because it's overdue.

However, I'm not convinced they may be upping the specs just for AI. I think it's just gotten to the point where it is only minimally more costly or perhaps not more costly to up the specs. Apple can't stay at 8 GB forever.

We haven't even seen much AI from Apple yet. Most of the existing AI apps (third party) are done over the cloud so faster specs is not really a factor. In other words, I don't think ChatGPT, Dall-E, Copilot, Lensa, etc. will have much benefit from the next-gen hardware upgrades. I'm sure we'll see a revamped Siri, Apple Maps, and things like that at some point, but a lot of what to expect from native Mac/iOS system apps is still speculative.

In my view, the new AI specs are pretty low on the list of benchmarks that I plan to look at. Maybe I'll be proven wrong.

 

[ignatius345]

Back in 2021, I toyed with the idea of buying a used 2020 Intel i3 Retina MacBook Air to give to the wife since its prices dropped fairly quickly after the Apple Silicon transition, but people said it ran hot with poor battery life. In the end I just picked up an 2017 i5 MacBook Air for super cheap, but will likely upgrade that to Apple Silicon when Apple releases the base MBA with 12 GB RAM. She's now starting to complain that she can't play some videos, which is because it does not support hardware h.265 HEVC acceleration. (Some of the video for our kids' recitals, etc. are recorded in h.265 format now, with no h.264 option.)

Walmart is selling those M1 Airs for $650 new now. They're base models, but that's still a great bang/buck ratio IMO.

 

[EugW]

Walmart is selling those M1 Airs for $650 new now. They're base models, but that's still a great bang/buck ratio IMO.

I live in Canada. Unfortunately we don't get those deals. Best Buy Canada did have a great set of deals on open box M2 MacBook Airs, but all the good deals were on 15" models and 8 GB, so I passed on it as we wanted the 13", and preferably with more than 8 GB. Plus, I've had mixed success with Best Buy open box. Some of the stuff has been great, but I've also gotten stuff (not laptops) from them that was outright dirty and previously registered to Apple so no warranty or incomplete warranty.

Anyhow, my prediction is that the M4 MacBook Air will go 12 GB in 2025, perhaps at the same price as the current 8 GB. If so, I may pick up one of those next spring/summer on the edu store during the Back-To-School promotion. My wife's 2017 MacBook Air still works fine so it should be good until then. The only real world issue for her is that it doesn't play back h.265 HEVC video, but her 2019 iPad 7 does and of course her 2022 iPhone 14 Pro Max does too, as do some of our other Macs in the house.

 

[Boyd01]

Most of the existing AI apps (third party) are done over the cloud so faster specs is not really a factor

Stories like this are what made me wonder if more effort is being devoted to optimizing new Macs for AI than simply improving performance.

Bloomberg's Mark Gurman recently reported that Apple's LLM will run entirely on-device, rather than via the cloud like most existing AI services.

Apple Acquires French AI Company Specializing in On-Device Processing

Apple has acquired the Paris-based artificial intelligence startup Datakalab amid its push to deliver on-device AI tools. Datakalab specializes in...

www.macrumors.com

 

[Micky Do]

Hope with a redesign. Other small form factor PCs make the 15yo current Mini design look positively prehistoric.

The design of my M1 Mac Mini looks OK to me; timeless really. However the early 2009 model it replaced had a more convenient, smaller footprint on my desk.

A redesigned Mac Mini with a smaller footprint would be welcome, but it will be almost certainly be a few more years before a new Mac Mini comes to me.

 

[Corefile]

This year's M4 Mini will have 12GB base memory.

 

[Peter_M]

I really wish we could get a 64gb RAM option, for those that don't need the added GPU cores in the Max and Ultra chips, but need lots of RAM (e.g. music production, large sample libraries etc.).

 

[nobullone1964]

Hope with a redesign. Other small form factor PCs make the 15yo current Mini design look positively prehistoric.

It's simple and plain. I think that was the idea. Those mini PCs you speak of aren't that nicely designed and miss key needs like thunderbolt.

 

[Cape Dave]

This year's M4 Mini will have 12GB base memory.

We are lucky they did not give us 10GB. Penny pinching fools. 16GB please! It will not break you, Apple! I promise!

 

[yellowhelicopter]

This year's M4 Mini will have 12GB base memory.

How do you know, or is it just a wishful prediction?

 

[marclondon]

How do you know, or is it just a wishful prediction?

This explains why it's likely.

 

[theluggage]

How do you know, or is it just a wishful prediction?

It's quite possible - and 12GB base + 24GB BTO option would be pretty sensible - but there's no justification for stating it as a fact.

The "evidence" for 12GB seems to be this: Some teardown reports of 8GB M4 iPad Pros suggest they actually have 12GB of RAM (2 x 6GB chips) fitted with 4GB disabled. This could be explained by:

1. 6GB chips being cheaper than 4GB chips - but Apple being evil and artificially limiting them to 4GB to maintain an artificial product demarcation
2. a temporary shortage of 4GB chips, with Apple reverting to 4GB chips as soon as they become available
3. Apple using cheaper faulty/binned "6GB" chips in the iPad that only have 4GB of working memory

So you have to first assume that (1) is the true reason, then you have to explain why - if Apple have the brass neck to sell knobbled 12GB iPads as 8GB - they wouldn't do the same thing to a Mac. I mean... maybe... the RAM size is more of a headline feature for Macs than it is for the iPad - but if RAM size is not a hot issue on the iPad why knobble it to 8GB?

Now, it is highly plausible that the next gen of Macs will have higher base RAM specs - the current 8GB (or, more accurately, the disproportionate cost of upgrading to 16GB) is getting harder to justify as the power and throughput of the other components increases. The marketing pressure comes from the new Copilot+ PCs starting at 16GB - with ARM CPUs and integrated neural processors that make it even harder to claim that 8GB on Mac is somehow as good as 16GB on Windows. Yeah, sure, "Apple Intelligence" will use magical 40% smaller 0s and 1s to model the neural pathways of a unicorn in half the RAM, but in reality people are going to want to run MS and Google AI products on their Macs as well - I believe the AI features of MS VS Code already recommend 16GB.

...but the "12GB" iPads don't prove anything beyond a 12GB M4 not breaking the laws of physics. Of course, a broken clock is still right twice a day...

 

[Chuckeee]

This explains why it's likely.

MaxTech YouTube clickbait videos are not a reliable nor respected source. If that is your sole justification, you are just guessing.

 

[EugW]

• Apple using cheaper faulty/binned "6GB" chips in the iPad that only have 4GB of working memory

I’m 99.9% sure it’s not this one. The chips are labeled by Micron as specifically the 6 GB model so they wouldn’t be shipping them to Apple as 4 GB. If they were binned to 4 GB, they would be labeled with the 4 GB model name.

if Apple have the brass neck to sell knobbled 12GB iPads as 8GB - they wouldn't do the same thing to a Mac. I mean... maybe... the RAM size is more of a headline feature for Macs than it is for the iPad - but if RAM size is not a hot issue on the iPad why knobble it to 8GB?

Cuz they’re not going to release 12 GB base iPads when MacBook Pros are still 8 GB base.

 

[PaulD-UK]

I seem to remember Apple saying in the past that they restricted iDevice RAM because increasing it reduces battery life, and long battery life is paramount.

? Does Dual OLED display tech have any connection with further unallocated RAM?

 

[theluggage]

Cuz they’re not going to release 12 GB base iPads when MacBook Pros are still 8 GB base.

...and they're not going to release M4 iPads when the MacBook Pros are still on M3... oh, wait, they just did!

The chips are labeled by Micron as specifically the 6 GB model so they wouldn’t be shipping them to Apple as 4 GB.

Why not? These aren't retail chips that Apple bought off the shelf at Best Buy - and they don't say "6GB" in large friendly letters.

It's not that the ideas aren't all quite plausible, or that it's unlikely that we'll see 12GB MacBooks - its just that some people are stating "M4 Macs will have 12GB" as if it were a proven fact when it's still all just speculation on incomplete information.

I seem to remember Apple saying in the past that they restricted iDevice RAM because increasing it reduces battery life, and long battery life is paramount.

...but they sell 16GB iPad Pros as well.