The new Mac mini is almost certainly coming

[Chuckeee]

Adding ATV functionality to the Mac mini just doesn’t seem like something that Apple is inclined towards. Combining the functionality of different products into a single product seems contrary to Apple’s philosophy. Apple seems much more likely to encourage that you purchase multiple products. 😔

While it could be beneficial to combine multiple functions into a single unit (ATV with Mac desktop, iPad with MacBook, ASD with a Mac Studio to make a large screen iMac Pro, etc). Apple has historically been opposed to combining functions. Even though it seems it would not be technically difficult to implement. There is just more profit in selling separate products.

Also the recent interest in adding ATV to the new Mac mini seems to be the result of the anticipated cosmetic similarities between the new Mac mini and the ATV. Hardly a strong rationale.

 

[sublunar]

Adding ATV functionality to the Mac mini just doesn’t seem like something that Apple is inclined towards. Combining the functionality of different products into a single product seems contrary to Apple’s philosophy. Apple seems much more likely to encourage that you purchase multiple products. 😔

While it could be beneficial to combine multiple functions into a single unit (ATV with Mac desktop, iPad with MacBook, ASD with a Mac Studio to make a large screen iMac Pro, etc). Apple has historically been opposed to combining functions. Even though it seems it would not be technically difficult to implement. There is just more profit in selling separate products.

Also the recent interest in adding ATV to the new Mac mini seems to be the result of the anticipated cosmetic similarities between the new Mac mini and the ATV. Hardly a strong rationale.

Wouldn't all this be hilarious if the M4 Mac mini was delivered in the existing old case and the Mini that's a bit bigger than Apple TV is in fact... an Apple TV? Maybe it's the 'pro' model with M4 cpu.

 

[Eric_WVGG]

Adding ATV functionality to the Mac mini just doesn’t seem like something that Apple is inclined towards.

Hard agree.

What's driving me insane is, a Mac Mini would be brilliant for a Homekit hub. Since the iPad's ability to be a hub has been handicapped, and there's no room in my life for an Apple TV or HomePod, I'm nearly locked out of the ecosystem.

A Mac Mini, on the other hand… I don't need one, but an always-on NAS that can maybe do some CoreML stuff, and can run my air system… yeah I'll make room for that, no problem.

 

[Corefile]

Also the recent interest in adding ATV to the new Mac mini seems to be the result of the anticipated cosmetic similarities between the new Mac mini and the ATV. Hardly a strong rationale.

Say what? The redesigned Mac Mini and Apple TV should be the exact same product as the form factor is proven and the externally facing ports should be the same. There are not technical difficulties making a common product but there are segmentation requirements from Apple Marketing, which is why they won't be the same.

 

[theluggage]

Say what? The redesigned Mac Mini and Apple TV should be the exact same product as the form factor is proven and the externally facing ports should be the same.

Eh?
If you want a Mac Mini with just HDMI, optional Ethernet and one non-functional USB-C port, go ahead and fill your boots, but count me out!

In other news, Apple aren't going to sell a Mac Mini for $170 and I can't imagine many people buying a $700 streaming box because it is marginally nicer to use than the apps built into their smart TV or a $50 Fire Stick.

 

[Gloor]

Why people keep asking for Mini to be AppleTV? I don't get it.

My AppleTV is connected to my tv in the living room whilst my Mini (computer) is connected to my monitor in my office.

What would be the purpose to have AppleTV 'in' Mac Mini? Do people really not have a tv and they watch stuff on their monitors? And if thats the case then they can already do it as Netflix, AppleTV+ etc. is all watchable from the browser.

I really struggle to understand why would anyone want these 2 devices to merge into one. It makes zero sense to me.

Say what? The redesigned Mac Mini and Apple TV should be the exact same product as the form factor is proven and the externally facing ports should be the same. There are not technical difficulties making a common product but there are segmentation requirements from Apple Marketing, which is why they won't be the same.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Why people keep asking for Mini to be AppleTV? I don't get it.

My AppleTV is connected to my tv in the living room whilst my Mini (computer) is connected to my monitor in my office.

What would be the purpose to have AppleTV 'in' Mac Mini? Do people really not have a tv and they watch stuff on their monitors? And if thats the case then they can already do it as Netflix, AppleTV+ etc. is all watchable from the browser.

I really struggle to understand why would anyone want these 2 devices to merge into one. It makes zero sense to me.

I could understand a desire for the Mac to get FrontRow back (aka ... the ATV interface these days)

It'd be pretty cool to turn an old Mac Mini into an Apple TV and have the hardware keep soldiering on and being useful.

 

[eRondeau]

I have a stack of 4 Mac Mini's going back to 2009. All still work great. Mostly interested in pushing this thread closer to 20,000 posts. Cheers!

 

[DesertSurfer]

With an OLED screen, we could have a combined Mac mini/Apple TV/Apple Watch Ultra Max Pro device. Start working those barbels!

 

[Corefile]

Eh?
If you want a Mac Mini with just HDMI, optional Ethernet and one non-functional USB-C port, go ahead and fill your boots, but count me out!

In other news, Apple aren't going to sell a Mac Mini for $170 and I can't imagine many people buying a $700 streaming box because it is marginally nicer to use than the apps built into their smart TV or a $50 Fire Stick.

Why people keep asking for Mini to be AppleTV? I don't get it.

My AppleTV is connected to my tv in the living room whilst my Mini (computer) is connected to my monitor in my office.

What would be the purpose to have AppleTV 'in' Mac Mini? Do people really not have a tv and they watch stuff on their monitors? And if thats the case then they can already do it as Netflix, AppleTV+ etc. is all watchable from the browser.

I really struggle to understand why would anyone want these 2 devices to merge into one. It makes zero sense to me.

An Apple TV or an iPad or an iPhone or an Apple Watch all run some variation of macOS under the covers. They just slap a different outward facing interface on it. So there is no technical reason a Mac Mini or Apple TV need be different physical devices as they're just changing the personality a consumer sees. Routing additional HW for ports isn't that difficult either given miniaturization advancements. Bottom line is that there will be prototypes of Mac Minis in ATV form factor running inside Cupertino. About that 170$, that's an Apple Marketing decision to segment the market. Marketing is why you pay those high prices.

 

[Chuckeee]

An Apple TV or an iPad or an iPhone or an Apple Watch all run some variation of macOS under the covers. They just slap a different outward facing interface on it. So there is no technical reason a Mac Mini or Apple TV need be different physical devices as they're just changing the personality a consumer sees. Routing additional HW for ports isn't that difficult either given miniaturization advancements. Bottom line is that there will be prototypes of Mac Minis in ATV form factor running inside Cupertino. About that 170$, that's an Apple Marketing decision to segment the market. Marketing is why you pay those high prices.

While Apple could do that. That’s a big difference than Apple will do that. Apple will much rather sell you 2 (or 3 or 4 or more) products instead of a single combined product. It is not very nice but that is how Apple of today operates.

 

[Gloor]

and again, why?

Just because something can be done together doesn't mean its a good idea/product.

You don't want your toaster to be the same as your toothbrush, do you?

I'm all for multipurpose devices but there is a line that shouldn't be crossed. Frontrow makes sense. AppleTV merge with Mac Mini does not.

One is in the living room connected to the tv and used for content consumption and the other is in the office connected to a monitor used for work or creation.

Some people are just unreasonable or illogical for the sake of it.

Critical thinking is clearly missing for some

An Apple TV or an iPad or an iPhone or an Apple Watch all run some variation of macOS under the covers. They just slap a different outward facing interface on it. So there is no technical reason a Mac Mini or Apple TV need be different physical devices as they're just changing the personality a consumer sees. Routing additional HW for ports isn't that difficult either given miniaturization advancements. Bottom line is that there will be prototypes of Mac Minis in ATV form factor running inside Cupertino. About that 170$, that's an Apple Marketing decision to segment the market. Marketing is why you pay those high prices.

 

[streetfunk]

My AppleTV is connected to my tv in the living room whilst my Mini (computer) is connected to my monitor in my office.

What would be the purpose to have AppleTV 'in' Mac Mini? Do people really not have a tv and they watch stuff on their monitors?

Many people i know do use their music PC as their main PC, and that as their TV too.
(Over here, we do not live in houses. And the appartments get smaller and smaller for bigger and bigger bucks.)

And if thats the case then they can already do it as Netflix, AppleTV+ etc. is all watchable from the browser.

is this true ? ...is my browser based TV experience replacing a mac TV entierely ? (serious question)

 

[Fishrrman]

I don't own an Apple TV.
Looked at one yesterday (at BJ's), and -- it looks downright tiny.

Not sure I would want a "Mini" scaled down to that size.
I want a "desktop" computer that's modestly substantial, not something the size of a large USB hub.

Even though I've been a "Mini fan" since back around 2013, I'll probably let the new Mini pass by and wait for the upgraded Mac Studio next spring.

I'm wondering if -- in view of a "scaled down" Mini -- that Apple may have a slightly scaled down Studio as well...?

 

[sublunar]

I don't own an Apple TV.
Looked at one yesterday (at BJ's), and -- it looks downright tiny.

Not sure I would want a "Mini" scaled down to that size.
I want a "desktop" computer that's modestly substantial, not something the size of a large USB hub.

Even though I've been a "Mini fan" since back around 2013, I'll probably let the new Mini pass by and wait for the upgraded Mac Studio next spring.

I'm wondering if -- in view of a "scaled down" Mini -- that Apple may have a slightly scaled down Studio as well...?

The current mini was designed for a 65w tdp Intel desktop cpu, it’s probably served its time now. Besides, small it might be but m4 won’t need nearly as much cooling as a coffee lake cpu. Might be different if they were planning to put m4 pro in it though.

The Mac Studio is designed for the cpu family in it now and I dare say it’s probably not paid for itself yet.

 

[theluggage]

The current mini was designed for a 65w tdp Intel desktop cpu, it’s probably served its time now.

...or you could use that space for a larger, (and hence quieter) fan or even a large enough heatsink to make it fanless.
...or make it a bit slimmer and make sure it's strong enough to stand a monitor on, and more suited to VESA mounting behind the display.
...and keep the footprint the same so the various stackable hubs/storage devices and rackmount kits still work.

Instead, it sounds like they've shrunk it to Mini footprint size because form over function.
...but had to make it higher (which is worse for VESA mounting and rules out standing a display on it)
...and move 2 of the 5 USB-C ports to the front, not to give us extra front-mounted ports but because there wasn't room for them on the back. Front ports - handy for memory sticks etc. if there are enough ports on the back for all your permanently connected stuff.

If it's going to be AppleTV size, (93mm x 93mm) that's (to grab a couple of random examples)
- too small to stand a Caldigit Element hub (70 x 144mm) without overhanging
- too small for most M.2 enclosures (the card itself is up to 80mm)
- certainly too small for the Element hub and Crucial SSD currently sitting on top of my Studio.

But, hey, it will look dead cool when Tim Cook walks on stage holding one in the palm of his hand.

I want a "desktop" computer that's modestly substantial, not something the size of a large USB hub.

You'll probably be needing the large USB hub as well. If you're lucky it will just about balance on top of the new Mini.

I don't think today's iPhone inc. have really "got" the idea of a desktop computer since they dropped the original Cheesegrater Mac Pro in 2012.

 

[Eric_WVGG]

I'm in front of a Studio Display right now. Would be so cool if the new Mac Mini perfectly matched the size of the "foot" of the ASD, with just a little space behind to route cables…

 

[sublunar]

...or you could use that space for a larger, (and hence quieter) fan or even a large enough heatsink to make it fanless.
...or make it a bit slimmer and make sure it's strong enough to stand a monitor on, and more suited to VESA mounting behind the display.
...and keep the footprint the same so the various stackable hubs/storage devices and rackmount kits still work.

That would favour the people who want to keep the existing form factor, slimming it down and keeping the same footprint could also work for the co-location guys. But is that the best use of a retooling?

Instead, it sounds like they've shrunk it to Mini footprint size because form over function.
...but had to make it higher (which is worse for VESA mounting and rules out standing a display on it)
...and move 2 of the 5 USB-C ports to the front, not to give us extra front-mounted ports but because there wasn't room for them on the back. Front ports - handy for memory sticks etc. if there are enough ports on the back for all your permanently connected stuff.

Did the story affirm what the materials being used are? If full aluminium would that deal with the bluetooth/wifi vs USB3 interference issue?

Polycarbonate like the AppleTV would be more radio transparent and likely lighter at the expense of heat dissipation.

If you're looking for a motive for Apple to make the change, if they could actually ship more minis in a carton that saves on shipping costs, and if they are lighter so much the better for airfreight.

If they produce an M4 mini Pro in this case (rather than put it in a Mac Studio) I'm sure the performance and heat would be tuned down so as not to overheat it.

If it's going to be AppleTV size, (93mm x 93mm) that's (to grab a couple of random examples)
- too small to stand a Caldigit Element hub (70 x 144mm) without overhanging
- too small for most M.2 enclosures (the card itself is up to 80mm)
- certainly too small for the Element hub and Crucial SSD currently sitting on top of my Studio.

But, hey, it will look dead cool when Tim Cook walks on stage holding one in the palm of his hand.

I don't think Apple would really care about third party peripherals, even the ones that mimic the footprint of the mini to make it stack nicely.

What I'd be more interested in hearing is how they put this past the co-location guys who would have gone for a half height mini with the same footprint (to stack more minis in their racks) but instead face having something that's a complete form factor change from what their racks are built for. Unless they are stackable and the width is some multiple of the height of the existing minis which appear to be stacked sideways in most pictures I have seen.

And the height is less than half the front width of the new one. I'm thinking - could they stack 4 new minis in the same space as 2 of the old one?

In other words, is the front width of the redesigned mini the same as some multiple of the height of the old mini?

I've never considered my 2012 Mini as capable of taking a monitor stand on top of it - it's certainly too small to stand my Dell monitors on. And a flat VESA mountable shape that could have worked doesn't sound like the description here. The trick there is to improve desk real estate by making the footprint smaller I guess.

You'll probably be needing the large USB hub as well. If you're lucky it will just about balance on top of the new Mini.

I don't think today's iPhone inc. have really "got" the idea of a desktop computer since they dropped the original Cheesegrater Mac Pro in 2012.

Let's see what turns up first.

 

[EugW]

1. I think it's odd to think it's a major advantage to stack an Apple monitor on top of a Mac mini. 98% of consumers won't care.

2. It does make a little bit more sense to want to stack a USB hub on top of the Mac mini, but even then most don't care. However, I'm sure within a few months of the new Mac mini being released, someone will make an exact fit hub. They may even include an NVMe drive slot in the housing if there is enough room. Personally though, I'd rather have a Mac mini with more built-in ports, and for extra ports on top of that I'll continue to use my existing Thunderbolt 4 / USB4 hubs. I actually prefer the ones I already have despite the fact it doesn't match the Mac mini footprint, since it uses the reference design from Intel with the standard Intel chipset.

3. I haven't had major Bluetooth issues. I do prefer an aluminum shell for the appearance and durability, but I wouldn't be opposed to a polycarbonate case if the price is right. It could affect heat dissipation though, as mentioned.

4. The co-location guys will adapt. And if the Mac mini is both narrower and shorter than the current Mac mini, it wouldn't be an issue, since someone will just make a cheap plastic adapter mount. And if the new design precludes that, then the co-location guys will just design new racks to compensate. Sure it's an expense, but such is life.

 

[Eric_WVGG]

1. I think it's odd to think it's a major advantage to stack an Apple monitor on top of a Mac mini. 98% of consumers won't care.

I meant, putting the Mac Mini ON the foot of the display would be convenient.

 

[EugW]

I meant, putting the Mac Mini ON the foot of the display would be convenient.

They’d have to change the cable routing or else it’d look really messy.

 

[sublunar]

They’d have to change the cable routing or else it’d look really messy.

Would have been nicer to have it VESA mountable to screw on the back of a monitor

 

[theluggage]

That would favour the people who want to keep the existing form factor, slimming it down and keeping the same footprint could also work for the co-location guys. But is that the best use of a retooling?

Still waiting for that magic practical justification for drastically reducing the footprint of a desktop.

About the only genuine failing of the Mac Mini was the Bluetooth/Wifi issue - they could have gone back to the original Mini concept of having a plastic (or even toughened glass) top panel or probably have made the whole Mini-sized case out of polycarbonete. As you say, though, its a trade off between WiFi and thermals - plus aluminium is recyclable which, at worst, helps Apple's greenwashing (and, with aluminium, might actually count for something).

1. I think it's odd to think it's a major advantage to stack an Apple monitor on top of a Mac mini. 98% of consumers won't care.

So, people do want their Mini to occupy 1/4 the desk area, but reject a way of making it take zero desk area...?

These forums seem to be full of people mourning the iMac... Apple could have re-designed the Mini case to key in with the Studio Display somehow...

Would have been nicer to have it VESA mountable to screw on the back of a monitor

There are kits to do that with the Mini (and it's quite common with small PCs that are way bigger than the ATV). Making the Mini smaller at the expense of making it taller doesn't help there.

If you're looking for a motive for Apple to make the change, if they could actually ship more minis in a carton that saves on shipping costs, and if they are lighter so much the better for airfreight.

That's the sort of penny pinching I'd expect on a cut-to-the-bones £50 Raspberry Pi, not a high-margin premium product like a Mac Mini that is already comparatively tiny. If it is true it reflects really, really badly on Apple, and would suggest that they really couldn't see beyond the iPhone.

I don't think Apple would really care about third party peripherals, even the ones that mimic the footprint of the mini to make it stack nicely.

Also - hardly a defence of Apple, and would again suggest that they really didn't understand what a desktop computer was for. The original pitch for the first Mini was "BYODKM - Bring your own display, keyboard and mouse".

What I'd be more interested in hearing is how they put this past the co-location guys who would have gone for a half height mini with the same footprint (to stack more minis in their racks) but instead face having something that's a complete form factor change from what their racks are built for.

I suspect that Apple care even less about the co-lo guys (competing with iCloud, the varmints!) than they do about third-party peripherals. Now, the companies making rackmount kits for the co-lo guys will get to sell people new racks - and that stuff is pricey!

Let's see what turns up first.

Yeah - at least the current rumours are talking about 5 USB-C ports + HDMI + Ethernet + internal PSU - when the "ATV-size-Mini" talk started I was rather expecting 4 USB-C, nothing else + external USB-C wall-wart. Even 3 rear USB + Ethernet + HDMI + IEC Power is going to be tight on the back of an ATV-sized box...

 

[Corefile]

Still waiting for that magic practical justification for drastically reducing the footprint of a desktop.

The current Mini form factor is right old fashioned compared to modern mini desktop PCs. Even the utilitarian NUC looks more modern and is much smaller. Apple needs to realize it's not 1976 anymore and big bulky boxed designs are not eco-friendly.

 

[DesertSurfer]

My guess (based on no information, just a hunch) is that the new Mini will have the same proportions and design as the current Studio. I haven't heard of any bluetooth issues with the Studio, so using that design should solve the bluetooth problem.

If the new mini has the same footprint as the current Apple TV (3.66" square), then it would be 1.75" high to keep the Studio proportions (compared to the current mini height of 1.41"). If the footprint is a little larger, say 4", then the height would be 1.92".

I wonder what these possible sizes would mean for the port configuration?