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FYI, that "(taller)" you're quoting looks like an older statement I may have made? I can't recall saying anything like that recently.

But it does sound like something I've said - - and in trying to recall what my thoughts were at that time, I think that what it was that a "Stretch Trash Can" could have made some sense for Apple at *some* point in time, where the objective would have been to offer some more internal expansion capabilities while sidestepping any admission that the cylindrical Trash Can was a horrible mistake.

In any event, I'll say now that my response is "No, but yes".

No ... because Apple has revealed that one of the major design weaknesses of their triangular heat sink inside of a cylinder is that it necessitated its heat loads to be balanced - - which means that this configuration (triangular heat sink in a cylinder) almost certainly has to die.

And:

Yes ... because my hopes are that Apple is going to have to reverse course on the Mac Pro's minimization of volume as we've seen with the Trash Can, which will conceptually placate some Pros by having sufficient empty space to allow some degree of internal DIY upgrades. Granted, it might not be any better than an additional ten cubic inches so as to facilitate better cooling and an empty slot for an Apple proprietary M.2 clone SSD blades, but... And to that end, an increase in volume can use all three dimensions (and shapes other than a cylinder), not only height.
hey @-hh

i screwed up the post (#264).. my bad.

i had a multi quote post that you were in.. but then i deleted the exchange except left your name instead of Sparkie who i was actually quoting (#262)

----
the part i deleted was in response to you saying:

"Well, when I heard bragging about "being alive" when the 286 shipped ...."

to which i replied:
i was also alive when Elvis was alive.. but just for a minute.


srry about the confusion.
and sorry for now un-deleting what was meant to remain deleted ;)
 
Sincerely, I'd be really bummed if all they offered was a rehash of the cMP. It's very unlikely, and though I wouldn't mind if they have such a computer in their lineup, I'm glad they went small and quiet with the nMP, so I hope they still offer something comparable in size and quietness.

It won't happen of course, but personally I'd be ecstatic if they just took the current nMP form factor, stuck in a top of the line i7 with a Nvidia GTX GPU. They would sell a lot of those... that's one of Apple's areas of stuborness I'll never understand. And I know it's not what the cMP jockeys like to hear, but that machine makes up 90% of the "pro" desktop market on Windows... we don't know how big a market it would be for the Mac, because Apple hasn't made such a machine since... ever? Then they could do whatever they want with the mMP.
 
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if they just took the current nMP form factor, stuck in a top of the line i7 with a Nvidia GTX GPU. They would sell a lot of those...

That's essentially the Corsair One, which I've got sitting on my desk next to the nMP. Basically what the nMP would have been if they'd solved around a standard GPU card. It would absolutely not satisfy people who need multiple PCI slots in a tower, but it would address the lion's share of the market. There's two directions Apple could go in with the next Pro - one is to do a semi-conventional upgradeable tower but only offer it online and possibly limit it to customers in business support programs like Apple JV and the other is to continue to try for modular configuration with external expansion. The big problem for Apple right now is managing the messaging around this because whatever they release will end up getting a disproportionate amount of media attention. The worst thing for Apple is that they give the classic Pros their tower and the media makes such a big deal out of it that the Apple brand is associated with an HP-style tower, undoing literally billions of marketing dollars spent positioning Apple away from that over the last 20 years. OTOH, if they deliver the flagship small form factor computer they want to deliver that's consistent with Apple's brand, the blowback from a vocal core set of users sinks the announcement as Apple yet again not meeting their customers needs. I suspect that the surprise will be two new Pros - a small form factor model that is slightly larger than the nMP with a standard GPU that is designed consistent with the Apple brand and which is what Apple spends the majority of the time talking about and then a quick wave to an "enterprise-only" tower that reinforces the commitment to the business market.
 
That's essentially the Corsair One, which I've got sitting on my desk next to the nMP. Basically what the nMP would have been if they'd solved around a standard GPU card. It would absolutely not satisfy people who need multiple PCI slots in a tower, but it would address the lion's share of the market. There's two directions Apple could go in with the next Pro - one is to do a semi-conventional upgradeable tower but only offer it online and possibly limit it to customers in business support programs like Apple JV and the other is to continue to try for modular configuration with external expansion. The big problem for Apple right now is managing the messaging around this because whatever they release will end up getting a disproportionate amount of media attention. The worst thing for Apple is that they give the classic Pros their tower and the media makes such a big deal out of it that the Apple brand is associated with an HP-style tower, undoing literally billions of marketing dollars spent positioning Apple away from that over the last 20 years. OTOH, if they deliver the flagship small form factor computer they want to deliver that's consistent with Apple's brand, the blowback from a vocal core set of users sinks the announcement as Apple yet again not meeting their customers needs. I suspect that the surprise will be two new Pros - a small form factor model that is slightly larger than the nMP with a standard GPU that is designed consistent with the Apple brand and which is what Apple spends the majority of the time talking about and then a quick wave to an "enterprise-only" tower that reinforces the commitment to the business market.
Yep. design an Apple-style case around that same concept, and they would sell a LOT of them. Apple has its blind spots, and that just seems like a glaring one to me.

I'd be very surprised if Apple comes back with the tower. The MP was never in the "enterprise", so there's no market for it there. The current market for a new tower is largely made up of the 10% of the Apple workstation market that needs a lot of internal expansion, and a handful of Apple computer geeks who think they need the expansion (i.e. market is too small for tower). Most of the crowd here that whines day-in and day-out about the lack of the tower were buying used MP's and upgrading them on the cheap, or who only wants to buy new every 6-7 years... and the used Mac market and upgrades doesn't directly profit Apple, so that's not of great to interest to them.

I think the mMP will either be something similar to the current nMP except with one or two PCIe slots or literally some sort of semi-custom GPU modules. One or two M.2 slots. Form-factor may change significantly in design, but not in concept - still compact, quiet and energy efficient.
 
If  do not get this new "modular" MP right - it's going to REALLY piss off a lot of professional users. Think of a beehive – – being kicked over – pissed
 
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If  do not get this new "modular" MP right - it's going to REALLY piss off a lot of professional users. Think of a beehive – – being kicked over – pissed

i think the ones who are pissed, already are.. the mMP might un-piss some or even most of them..
anyone remaining pissed after mMP will have to just close the case and walk away..
(but will that happen? nah ;) )
 
i think the ones who are pissed, already are.. the mMP might un-piss some or even most of them..
anyone remaining pissed after mMP will have to just close the case and walk away..
(but will that happen? nah ;) )

Well, we don't have an alternative. A windose machine is NOT an alternative by the way.
 
Seems to me Apple made a lot of profit of people that needed SDI cards and 10Gbit ethernet, something they could have added easily with PCE slots.

Lots of these people have moved to the PC, and spent lots of money on software seats.

Will the price of the software investment prohibit them from moving back to the MacOS, time will tell, but if they don't offer at least 2 or three internal PCIE slots, SATA, and M.2, I won't be buying one, and I think a lot of costumers that update rather often, to the top end Macs, because they need the CPU power, and time is money, won't either.
 
What are your biggest fears about the new forthcoming Mac Pros?

Hopefully Apple are listening.


My biggest fear is Apple may think "they're crying out for 'pro' machines - let's give them what they want - at a price".

Apple, we love Macs, but please don't rip us off and treat us like mugs. Isn't it about time you rewarded your most loyal users? Be smart, be fair.
Lack of important ports/pro features, underpowered for the lower price (as you've already said), and, worst of all, no REAL USB ports.
 
heh, well if you can't use a windows machine and mMP doesn't do it for you then...


hmm.. how does that rock and a hard place quip go again?

Well my Mac Pro 2008 still ticks on and I can run El Capitan, so I'm good till it dies. Or I buy the last on the cMP 2012's. Next smart ass remark?
 
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Well my Mac Pro 2008 still ticks on and I can run El Capitan, so I'm good till it dies. Or I buy the last on the cMP 2012's. Next smart ass remark?

if i understand you correctly-
there is exactly one manufacturer capable of selling the computer you need.. and there's a decent chance even they won't make it..
nothing else works for you other than cMP.
is that correct?

if so then yes, i have plenty of smart ass remarks.
 
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I'm hopeful they will realize the situation they are in: in the pro market, they are now the underdog. If they don't come up with exactly what video, sound and photo pros need, at a reasonable price, the exodus that has already begun, which will probably continue while they redesign this thing, will become a stampede if the next Mac Pro is anything like the last one.
This is without even addressing the other elephant in the room - as far as I can tell, with the killing of Aperture and the changes to FCP, there aren't many (any?) MacOS-only pro apps to keep pros locked into their ecosystem. What once was their strength has become their weakness. If the hardware doesn't impress, what reason is there to stay with Apple?
I hate saying this, but logically...
 
Well, we don't have an alternative. A windose machine is NOT an alternative by the way.

Just interested to know how is Windows not an alternative unless you're using Mac specific tools? I don't care either way really as I use whatever platform does the job, but just interested to know what keeps people so resolutely tied to one platform or another.

As a side note / thought, the modular Mac Pro idea could finally be a way of delivering the long time desired (amongst enthusiasts at least) 'xMac / Mac Pro Junior' concept. You could have the same enclosure but offer multiple configurations based off lower and higher power CPU, GPU, storage, memory options. Perhaps i5/i7 CPU board modules for the lower spec system and Xeon based board modules for the higher end ones.

I mean, obviously it's NOT going to happen... but just idle daydreaming about what could be in an ideal world.... sigh.
 
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I really think a modular Mac Pro will be kinda like the internal of the classic Mac Pro tower. You know how the CPU tray is removable? Well, picture the current 2013 nMP trashcan. But, instead of, having the GPU's in there, it is just the CPU/RAM/M.2 slots.

And, then this is where the "modular" comes in.

Either on the side, or on the bottom, there is a connector (kinda like how the CPU tray of the cMP tower has a connector) that will connect another enclosure that houses... wait for it... PCIE slots! And, if, Apple is feeling generous... SATA 3 ports or current/future SATA-storage ports....

I think this is the most logical design that I can think of that can adhere to Apple's elegant aesthetics. And, at the same time, support future/legacy PCIE components. As well as, SATA storage.

If, I have time to draw it right now I would.

Maybe, if, I'm feeling bored enough!

So, yeah, an eGPU/storage enclosure but a lot sexier!
 
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Just interested to know how is Windows not an alternative unless you're using Mac specific tools? I don't care either way really as I use whatever platform does the job, but just interested to know what keeps people so resolutely tied to one platform or another.
I often wonder if I made the right choice burning bridges with Windows. After all, I wasn't able to play Barotrauma with some friends the other day because there's no Mac pros and I couldn't get either the Linux/Windows versions to work.

Them my mom or my sister want me to fix something on their Windows 10 machines, and my aunts and grandmas Windows 7 machines start throwing tantrums as well. And then I breathe a sigh of relief that I burned that bridge.
 
I also have a feeling Apple might put a bunch of R&D into this ONE release and then leave us hanging again.. My guess is that they hope by 2020+ we will all be flying around in APPLE cars and our iPhones will be faster than than the fastest super computer ever conceived.. THINK 2001's HAL 9000 times INFINITY + Another INFINITY!!! WHOA, that is scary...

When that happens we won't care about PCI-E, VIDEO CARDS or desktop computers, because we can fly to work and our phone will be our best friend and make us dinner..

Honestly, is Apple really going to keep up with the Pro Market? I think they are kinda baiting us.. You really think they will keep R&D into a demographic they have already said explicitly is a MEAGER MEAGER portion of the companies profits..

I guess wait until 2023 and see..
 
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I also have a feeling Apple might put a bunch of R&D into this ONE release and then leave us hanging again.. My guess is that they hope by 2020+ we will all be flying around in APPLE cars and our iPhones will be faster than than the fastest super computer ever conceived.. THINK 2001's HAL 9000 times INFINITY + Another INFINITY!!! WHOA, that is scary...

When that happens we won't care about PCI-E, VIDEO CARDS or desktop computers, because we can fly to work and our phone will be our best friend and make us dinner..

Honestly, is Apple really going to keep up with the Pro Market? I think they are kinda baiting us.. You really think they will keep R&D into a demographic they have already said explicitly is a MEAGER MEAGER portion of the companies profits..

I guess wait until 2023 and see..
Maybe by then robots will be doing all the work and we can complain about them.
 
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Maybe by then robots will be doing all the work and we can complain about them.
We will be complaining, unless of course, the robots have an extension cord, so they only get power when plugged in.. That way we can un-plug when they try to kill us.. Putting batteries in ROBOTS is a bad idea, and that's all Elon Musks fault..
 
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